Author Topic: On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)  (Read 8517 times)

atmavichar100

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On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)
« on: November 23, 2012, 11:35:47 AM »
Friends
There is lot of conflict with regard to destruction of Vasanas . Some say Knowledge destroys it , some say practice destroys it , some say a combination of both .Some question the word "destroy" itself . There is lot of conflict in the language of experience school v/s language of understanding school .
I have presented below Bhagwan's short views of the same .

Those who want to elaborate on this can kindly do .
http://bhagavan-ramana.org/ramana_maharshi/books/mg/mg006.html

D: Since Realization is not possible without vasana- kshaya, how am I to realise that State in which the vasanas are effectively destroyed?

M: You are in that State now!

D: Does it mean that by holding on to the Self, the vasanas should be destroyed as and when they emerge?

M: They will themselves be destroyed if you remain as
you are.

However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2012, 11:42:05 AM »
Absolutely simple message from Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi.

Muktikopanishad says
"Mano-nasha, Vasana-kshaya and Bodha have to be practised continuously for long time"

by mano-nasha it means abiding like a Stone with all attention resolved at its source.
by vasana-kshaya it means remaining indifferent to vasana promptings.
and
by bodha it means holding onto the understanding that "I AM SELF"

This is my view. These three together have to be practised until it becomes natural.

So Understanding + Practice  :)
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2012, 11:46:58 AM »
Practise of Understanding!
not disjoing: Practise , Understanding.

Practise of the understanding.

Thats what you can read in all my posts.

incidentally practise of understanding is called nidhidhyasanam.

Got it . Thanks . BTW has  this  been quoted in Bhagawad Gita / 10 Classical Upanishad about this i.e like in MuktioUpanishad
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2012, 12:03:03 PM »
udai,
"When a vasanas surfaces , it surfaces as a prompting.if you ignore the prompting and just remain seated as "I AM"what happens ?

Who gets prompted?Then we will see what to do.

Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2012, 12:52:29 PM »
Dear Ravi, Tusnim,

The seeker's aim must be to drain away the vasanas from the heart and let no reflection obstruct the Light of  Eternal
Consciousness. This is achieved by the search of the ego, and by diving into the heart. This is the direct method for
Self Realization.

                                       (Talks No. 616)

Arunachala Siva.
 

Subramanian.R

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Re: On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2012, 01:11:53 PM »
Dear Tusnim,

Vasana kshayam occurs when Self Inquiry is constantly pursued till we experience Awareness.

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2012, 01:18:03 PM »
Dear Tusnim,

Yes. Along with the attainment of the experience of Awareness, one's vasanas also get washed out simultaneously with Self Inquiry.

Arunachala Siva. 

Ravi.N

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Re: On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2012, 01:21:36 PM »
udai,
Let us approach this differently.If we stay as "Iam" can there be the rise of Vasana?Do we require a prompting from outside to remind us to stay as 'I am".
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2012, 01:31:52 PM »
Sri Bhagavan clears confusion in a very profound way in the following conversation:

It is said that one should give up desire. But there are the needs of the body which are irrepressible. What is to be done?

M.: An aspirant must be equipped with three requisites:

(1) Ichcha;
(2) Bhakti; and
(3) Sraddha.

Ichcha means satisfaction of bodily wants without attachment to the body (such as hunger and thirst and evacuation). Unless it is done meditation cannot progress. Bhakti and Sraddha are already known.

D.: Well, Bhagavan, you said there are three requisites of which ichcha is the satisfaction of natural wants without attachment to the body, etc. I take food three or four times a day and attend to bodily wants so much so that I am oppressed by the body. Is there a state when I shall be disembodied so that I might be free from the scourge of bodily wants?

M.: It is the attachments (raga, dwesha) which are injurious. The action is not bad in itself. There is no harm in eating three or four times. But only do not say, “I want this kind of food and not that kind” and so on.


Moreover you take those meals in twelve hours of wakeful state whereas you are not eating in the hours of sleep. Does sleep lead you to mukti? It is wrong to suppose that simple inactivity leads one to mukti.

D.: How to attain the Self?
M.: Self is not to be attained because you are the Self.

D.: Yes. There is an unchanging Self and a changing one in me. There are two selves.
M.: The changefulness is mere thought. All thoughts arise after the arising of the ‘I-thought’. See to whom the thoughts arise. Then you transcend them and they subside. This is to say, tracing the source of the ‘I-thought’, you realise the perfect ‘I-I’. ‘I’ is the name of the Self.



॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2012, 01:43:21 PM »
udai,
"You need to remind yourself to remain as "I AM" unless you  constantly and naturally remain as "I AM".

Is knowing the Self and Being as 'I am ' a matter of remembrance and Forgetfulness?

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2012, 01:46:40 PM »
more on vAsanAs

[Khanna] handed Bhagavan a piece of paper on which he had written something. After reading it Bhagavan said,

‘It is a complaint. He says, “I have been coming to you and this time I have remained nearly a month at your feet and I find no improvement at all in my condition. My vasanas are as strong as ever. When I go back, my friends will laugh at me and ask what good my stay here has done.” Then, turning to Khanna, Bhagavan said, ‘Why distress your mind by thinking that jnana has not come or that the vasanas have not disappeared? Don’t give room for thoughts. In the last stanza of ‘Sukavari’ in Thayumanavar the saint says much the same as is written on this paper.’ And Bhagavan made me read the stanza and translate it into English for the benefit of those who did not know Tamil. It goes: ‘The mind mocks me, and though I tell you ten thousand times, you are indifferent, so how am I to attain peace and bliss?’

In the first half of the ‘Sukavari’ verse the mind of Thayumanavar is complaining to its jiva, its spirit or soul, about the division that has sprung up between them.

(1)‘Like yourself [the jiva] who are spirit, have not I, the mind,
and my friend, the prana, always dwelt within the body?
Long ago someone or other separated us,
designating us as “insentient” and yourself as “sentient”.
From the day you heard that, right up to the present day,
you have unjustly erected a barrier between us and suppressed us,
exercising your oppressive rule. What a great task you have accomplished,
right before our eyes!’
(2)When my foolish mind thus grossly abuses me,
my heart is scorched and blackened,
like beeswax exposed to a leaping flame!
Can this be right and proper?
Though I have called upon You [God] ten thousand times,
you have not taken pity on me, and bestowed your grace.
Henceforth, how may happiness ever come to me? Speak!
Supreme Godhead,
pure and devoid of all attributes!
Supernal Light! Ocean of bliss!

Then I [Devaraja Mudaliar] said to Khanna: ‘You are not the only one who complains to Bhagavan like this. I have more than once complained in the same way, and I still do, for I find no improvement in myself.’
Khanna replied: ‘It is not only that I find no improvement but I think I have grown worse. The vasanas are stronger now. I can’t understand it.’

Bhagavan again quoted the last three stanzas of ‘Mandalattin’ of Thayumanavar, where the mind is coaxed as the most generous and disinterested of givers, to go back to its birthplace or source and thus give the devotee peace and bliss, and he asked me to read out a translation that I had once made

(1)Mind, you who evolve from maya
as jewels are wrought from gold!
If you are freed from your defects
so that blissful samadhi is attained
by meditating on [reality] within oneself
as oneself, by melting within,
and by making [you] fall away,
I shall attain redemption.
No one is as kind to me as you are – no one.
When I ponder on this, you [the mind]
are equal to the grace of God.

(2)Amongst those who have taken on bodies
to experience the [the world],
be they Brahma, or any of the gods,
it is true, is it not,
that for any of them to reject you [the mind],
and exist without you,
is impossible, quite impossible.
Without you, can anything be,
in this world or the next?
To vainly label you ‘unreal’ is unjust.
So I shall praise you as ‘real’ also.
In order that my wretched state may be ended,
you must return to the glorious land of your birth.
(3)You who have been my companion
for many a day, were you to lie dead
through the enquiry [vichara]
that has separated you from me,
I should revere that ground with perfect devotion.
Through the mauna Guru who has ruled me
I will be free from ‘I’ and ‘mine’,
becoming one with his grace.
The eight siddhis, liberation itself,
which is a vision delightful to behold,
shall be mine upon the earth.
Through you my anxieties shall be ended.

(4)All my interminable wrangling
with birth will end in this very birth.
For me, the state of jivanmukti,
which is difficult for anyone to experience,
will arise.
Oh, Sir [mind]! Will even a cloud
or a grove of karpaka trees
suffice as a comparison to you?
Can your greatness be described
in the seven worlds, beginning with earth?

(Excerpts from "Bhagavan and Thayumanavar" - Robert Butler, T. V. Venkatasubramanian and David Godman)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2012, 01:56:01 PM »
Udai,
We have to revet back to my original question.Can there be rise of vasana in the 'I AM'?Remembrance and forgetfulness are attributable to the mind.Vasanas are part and parcel of Mind.Now,when we say that as and when the vasana arises,revert to 'I AM' it implies that one was not as pure being prior to the rising of the vasana.Is it possible that the Reverting to 'I AM' is also another mode of mind only which disengages from that particular vasana only and not from the mind in Toto?
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2012, 02:15:53 PM »
udai,
"yes this is a sadhana and its mental for sure! not the least doubt abt it"

Thanks udai.If this ground is cleared,we may look at two ways of carrying on with Sadhana.It is indeed useful to detach ourselves from being hijacked by every thought or emotion.We also are agreeing that as long as we are in the Sadhana mode,we are not as 'I AM'.
What next?Do we take a reactive mode of approach of detaching as and when we are assailed by Vasanas or is there a proactive way of tackling them enmasse?
This is the true significance of self-enquiry or self surrender.Do we see this as such?
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2012, 02:35:21 PM »
udai,
The significance is like this udai.The vasanas of udai are not affecting Ravi;the vasanas of Ravi are not affecting udai.This much is clear.
If Ravi is not there,his vasanas are not there.Ravi is the 'I' in Ravi, and by unceasingly throwing a searchlight of attention on and questioning (doubting-as this is what has been told by the Guru who knows what he is saying) the 'I' it ceases to be and in its place Self alone is.At the same time,the Nature of self enquiry is a mix of utter devotion,Faith and surrender-as this involves the utter giving up of the 'I' .
The acme of self enquiry and self surrender is the same;they begin as two different ways but end up as one.It is this intensity that can burn up the vasanas in toto and dissolve the epicentre called 'I' ,so to say.
self-enquiry is a proactive sadhana,so is self surrender.
Namaskar.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 02:37:57 PM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: On Vasana Kshaya (Destruction of Tendencies)
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2012, 02:56:51 PM »
udai,
It is quite simple udai.you cannot 'Practice' it.It is not a thing to be 'done' as we commonly understand it.When there is love and Faith in the Guru or God,you come to feel his presence as the truest and deepest part of oneself.This exerts a natural pull inwards and weans one from the external atractions of the world.the 'I' of the devotee is a namesake only,and he knows that he is a nobody.All that matters is this deep fount of love and Peace within him;as he is a nobody ,no vasana gets attached to him.His practise is this unceasing smarana of this source of Love and Peace.He finds that he is not the doer of sadhana and it is only the Divine in him which is doing the sadhana.

He uses all the faculties as a proxy and functions normally in the world.I am saying this to make it clear that this is no idle thing and a matter of convenience.
Namaskar.