Author Topic: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues  (Read 17236 times)

atmavichar100

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2012, 09:13:07 AM »
Ravi

Thanks for sharing the letter of Annamalai Swamy .It is a great blessing that you had close contact with him in the early 80s itself much before he became sort of popular to the outside world after David Godman's book "Living by the words of Bhagwan" .
I still cherish that book and I never get bored reading it again and again .

Om Peace .

However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Nagaraj

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2012, 09:16:53 AM »
Sri Ravi,

Thanks so much, for sharing your joy.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2012, 11:03:28 AM »
Sri Tushnim,

The pure mind attains jnana, which is what is meant by salvation. So, eventually jnana must be reached, i.e., the ego must be traced to its source. But to those to whom this does not appeal, we have to say sat karmas lead to chitta suddhi, and chitta suddhi will lead to right knowledge or jnana, and that in its turn gives salvation.

(Day by Day)

It depends on the maturity of the disciple. Gunpowder catches fire in an instant, while it takes time to ignite coal.

(From the books of Paul Brunton)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2012, 11:19:31 AM »
Nagaraj,
Sri Annamalai swami followed the alternative path that you have mentioned.This is wonderfully captured in 'Living by the words of bhagavan'.He just lived by the words of Bhagavan in utter obedience.
Namaskar.


Nagaraj

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2012, 11:30:20 AM »
Sri Ravi,

incidently, even Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj's method was perhaps the same as Sri Annamalai Swami. He just obediently followed his Guru Sri Nithyananda's advice to be with "I am" and as he has said in 2 years or 3 years  ??  it had become sahaja nishta for him.

Ultimately, everybody has to reach the same, jnana is all fine, ultimately, what matters is whether one has transcended the Vasanas. That is the end matter.

Jnana without winning over Vasanas is like a flower bud, but Jnana with winnig over Vasanas is a blossomed flower.

That is the main point, which we why we can see so many speakers on the subject of Atma, but have they all blossomed fully? only oneself can say! One has to be brutally honest with oneself.

slightly changed the below quote:

"we may fool all the people some of the time; we can even fool some of the people all the time; we may even fool all of the people all the time, but we can never fool our own selves all the time"

It is very subtle that we can get confused with Truth and Fact. There is a subtle difference between the two, only if we are brutally true to ourselves we may be able to make the next step.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2012, 12:06:48 PM »
Nagaraj,
It is essentially devotion to Guru and unquestioning faith in the Guru's words that is key.
Yes,I agree with what you have said about self deception.This is where the supervision of a Guru is paramount.There is this interesting story in Living by the words of Bhagavan,wherein Annamalai Swami clears a certain pathway of thorns as Sri Bhagavan used to walk that way.Nothing escapes the eyes of Bhagavan!He enquired annamalai Swami -'Who cleared this pathway?".swami responds saying that he had done so and had cleared the pathway of thorns as Sri Bhagavan frequents that path.Immediately Sri Bhagavan tells him-'Oh!nee pannayO"(So you did it!).Swami tries to explain his position,yet Bhagavan is unmoved until swami takes recourse to a Thayumanavar song:

உள்ளம் அறிவாய் உழப்பறிவாய் நான்ஏழை
தள்ளிவிடின் மெத்தத் தவிப்பேன் பராபரமே!

Thou knoweth my heart. Thou knoweth my distress.
Helpless am I.
If Thou reject me, In anguish extreme will I be, Oh Para Param!

Sri Bhagavan smiles and leaves it at that.The Satguru's Grace protects one from the delusions of the Ego and paves the way for spiritual Growth.

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2012, 12:22:42 PM »
Sri Ravi, yes, Guru's grace and intervention is inevitable! How closely did Bhagavan groom Sri Annamalai Swami, so subtly he admonishes the aham BhAvam in devotees, in the life of Muruganar we can see so many instances where Bhagavan so subtly grooms him. And the Devotee should be fit and sharp enough to even absorb such a subtle teaching and pointer. Hence always the deserving attain their goal. Hence we have to make ourselves deserving.

Uddharet Atmana Atmanam Natmanam Avasadayet
Atmaiva Hyatmano Bandhuratmaiva Ripuratmanah.

"Let a man raise himself by himself, let him not lower himself; for he alone is the friend of himself, he alone is the enemy of himself."

God Helps those who helps themselves.

sUkShma ahankAra that is so very subtle, can only thus get crushed, when the spirit of the disciple is thus:

tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā

Striving to learn the truth by approaching the master. Inquire from him submissively and by rendering service unto him.

IN the context of the above verse, readers may be interested to read the following upadesa of Shirdi Sai Baba:

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=7164.msg34008#msg34008

« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 12:29:17 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2012, 12:25:56 PM »
verse 8 & 9 of upadesha saram ? :)

Verse 8
Meditation on the identity of the individual and the Lord, “I am He”, is more purifying than meditation which assumes a difference between them

Verse 9
By the power of meditation, devoid of thoughts, one is established in true Being, and this is supreme devotion

One can follow any method, but the Guru warns the disciple, the dangers of using Advaita in practice. It is a great potential for ones downfall.

I believe devotion to guru means
when Annamalai Swami says "You are Self"
1. Invent ways to avoid this statement that by saying he was unique!
2. Repeat "I have not yet realized"
3. Keep quoting from various sources different statements ...

is it so ?

Or is to to "See" how I am Self, when i feel bound !! which is the way ? 

You continue to address to, "I feel bound" to whom are you addressing to?

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2012, 12:46:58 PM »
I believe devotion to guru means
when Annamalai Swami says "You are Self"
1. Invent ways to avoid this statement that by saying he was unique!
2. Repeat "I have not yet realized"
3. Keep quoting from various sources different statements ...

is it so ?

Or is to to "See" how I am Self, when i feel bound !! which is the way ?

Sri Tushnim,

Everybody wants to realise, that is the deepest desire of every spiritual aspirant. It is easy to say, I am Self. Everybody, deep within, definitely know that they are that supreme, that they are part of that Whole, and that they are not limited by any reason.

But, disciples do not go about saying I am Self because of Humility, As One knows within, what does it make by saying I am Self? The humility shines as as one recognises where one stands. That is the hallmark of a true disciple.

That submissiveness, that humility is what shines. Do the problems end permanently by declaring I am Self? What I gather the essence is that whenever you are troubled by dualities, you advise prominently that affirm that you are that Self, by such affirmations, one is able to transcend dualities and and slowly overcome the grip and hold of ones Mind of the Ego.

But, all this, has to be internal. The Job is not done by just saying I am Self. Because, if one continues to discern further, as Vasanas have not been extinguished. Mano Nasam has to occur

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2012, 12:54:19 PM »
Nagaraj,
Yes,I have gone through that wonderful discourse of Sri Shirdi Baba.In The Gospel,Sri Ramakrishna says:

"I have observed that a man acquires one kind of knowledge about God through reasoning and another kind through meditation; but he acquires a third kind of Knowledge about God when God reveals Himself to him, His devotee".

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2012, 01:03:25 PM »
Nagaraj/Friends,
Yes,what you have said is true.This is what Thayumanavar also says:

காலமொரு மூன்றுங் கருத்திலுணர்ந் தாலும்அதை
ஞாலந் தனக்குரையார் நல்லோர் பராபரமே

Well may they cognize The time's tenses three.
But the holy ones will not To the world reveal it.
Oh Para Param!

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2012, 01:11:14 PM »
         :) You are obviously free to have your own interpretations !

Thats a nice way to avoid reflecting :)

If I have my own interpretations, then what is yours?

:)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2012, 01:13:18 PM »
Udai,
Can one who does not even know the nature of Bondage know the Nature of Freedom?can one who is not even aware whether the Ego survives in Sleep ever appreciate whether he is free of it in his waking consciousness?What is the Freedom that he is repeating ad nauseum here? :)
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2012, 01:20:35 PM »
Sri Tushnim,

you are only trying to prove i am not liberated --- once again! in a different way.
 and i told i am not going to discuss my liberation with you :)

You gave it away! ;)


Lets take this discussion to another dimension. It may be like an interview :) I see you want to communicate something. May be this different way might help.

What do you do?

Who are you?

What is your purpose?

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2012, 01:22:19 PM »
udai,
All interpretations are your own imagination.I have nothing to do with it.Any way the questions that I have put are pretty straight forward and any sincere aspirant will be in a position to answer for himself;I do not expect that he has to disclose his findings here.It is enough if one knows it for oneself.
Namaskar.