Author Topic: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues  (Read 19004 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #30 on: November 21, 2012, 01:42:06 PM »
udai,
You are not answering the question that I have put.Whether you stand free or not depends on what you mean by Freedom.Unless we are clear about what Freedom is,where is the question of knowing whether one is free?
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #31 on: November 21, 2012, 01:43:41 PM »
     :) I do not ask abt your credentials. We discuss not people but the concepts.
Whether I stand free or not, only i will know :)!

Friend, i do not think, anybody really spoke about credentials, what does anybody gain by knowing anything about anybody's credentials. You should have known by know that extensive discussion was all not about people but about what you were trying to convey, did not resonate, but you did not give a chance to allow reflection to take place.

Whosoever communicates, the reason enlightens itself. You have not allowed yourself to build your point of view in a manner that its true light can been seen. Friend, you have to build your defences to voice your view. If you are convinced about something, it all lies in your hands to present it in a manner that is acceptable to everybody, more, acceptable to the pramANas of scriptures.

I do not see, anywhere, anybody spoke whether you are free or not, you are giving it yourself. Instead, you can build your defence better and see to it you convey what you want to within the structure of scriptural boundary.

with prayers,

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #32 on: November 21, 2012, 01:51:05 PM »
Udai,
My question is quite simple.whether one who does not know the nature of Bondage know the Nature of Freedom?Is this a personal question?
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2012, 01:53:55 PM »
  :) You have not seen what I presented!
if you have read what I said you would not have been questioning all this !

Read my articles. you will understand.
and be open... not with an attitude to prove or disprove anything

Sri Tushnim,

You have seen me in past and my responses too. I have never tried to prove or disprove anything. But only try to point out the the look holes.

I have read your articles, how do you say, I have not seen what you have presented, I have read your articles, and also followed all your exchanges.

and at various instances i have made known clearly, those points that did not resonate with me. But At each of those instances, you did not continue to respond back to me, so as to allow reflections to take place.

you have to give some space to "pUrvapakShA" and allow reflection within yourself.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2012, 01:59:58 PM »
Udai,
That is my question.It is you who said that one should approach a teacher and do sravana,Manana and Niddhidyasana on the scriptural texts that deal with this subject.What do the scriptures say on this?
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2012, 02:07:24 PM »
    :) If you have read my articles plz summarize in a couple of lines what I said.

Your, this approach doesn't resonate with me at all. I believe, It is you who has to do the needful!

Off the hand, you have been inconsistent in your expression, and have absolutely avoided answering to questions put at you! You are caught with your Knowledge.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2012, 02:13:00 PM »
Udai,
As per you,they never define the Problem of Bondage and Straight away advise one on 'I am Brahman' type of Srvana,Manana,etc.Is this true?
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2012, 02:17:30 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,
     :) Its  your call coz i claimed u did not understand what I expressed here.
if u accept u did not understand u need not summarise.
if you think u understood ... plz summarize in two lines!

u did not get even the basics of what i am have been expressing here.
totally zero understanding of what I am presenting. this is my claim.

Your post is evidently reflective of YOURSELF :) , Sri Tushnim.

Wish you all the best. I certainly do not see anything worthy in continuing a useless discussion. I would discuss fervently where there is true spirit of reflection, and not where there is just one sided song!

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #38 on: November 21, 2012, 02:22:09 PM »
udai,
I am finding that you are not answering the question that I have put regarding the Nature of Bondage and Freedom.The Reason that you are avoiding the answer is that it will debunk whatever you have said regarding Freedom and Liberated Living till now.So we are going round and round avoiding the fundamental question.
Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #39 on: November 21, 2012, 02:23:37 PM »
Dear Tusnim,

As an elderly person I can advise you the following:

1. Almost everyday you are entering into some debates back and forth on issues which are not very important. Even
if they are important also, just give your view points and let it stop there.  Let each one have the last laugh.

2. Secondly, you have got many unfinished projects on hand: a) Sri Sanakra Bhashyam for BG. b) Ashtavakra Gita etc.,

Please concentrate on them and post your detailed views.

PLEASE DO NOT, DO NOT, AGAIN RESPOND TO THIS POST.

Arunachala Siva.

atmavichar100

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #40 on: November 21, 2012, 03:37:46 PM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #41 on: November 22, 2012, 07:39:26 AM »
Friends,
Here is an excerpt from Living By the Words of Bhagavan,where Annamalai swami explains self-enquiry:

Bhagavan [Ramana Maharshi] has said: 'When thoughts arise stop them from developing by enquiring, "To whom is this thought coming?" as soon as the thought appears. What does it matter if many thoughts keep coming up? Enquire into their origin or find out who has the thoughts and sooner or later the flow of thoughts will stop.'

This is how self-enquiry should be practiced.

When Bhagavan spoke like this he sometimes used the analogy of a besiged fort. If one systematically closes off all the entrances to such a fort and then picks off the occupants one by one as they try to come out, sooner or later the fort willl be be empty. Bhagavan said that we should apply these same tactics to the mind. How to go about doing this? Seal off the entrances and exits to the mind by not reacting to rising thoughts or sense impressions. Don't let new ideas, judgements, likes, dislikes, etc. enter the mind, and don't let rising thoughts flourish and escape your attention. When you have sealed off the mind in this way, challenge each emerging thought as it appears by asking, 'Where have you come from?' or 'Who is the person who is having this thought?' If you can do this continuously, with full attention, new thoughts will appear momentarily and then disappear. If you can maintain the siege for long enough, a time will come when no more thoughts arise; or if they do, they will only be fleeting, undistracting images on the periphery of consciousness. In that thought-free state you wlil begin to experience yourself as consciousness, not as mind or body.

However, if you relax your vigilance even for a few seconds and allow new thoughts to escape and develop unchallenged, the siege will be lifted and the mind will regain some or all of its former strength.

In a real fort the occupants need a continuous supply of food and water to hold out during a siege. When the supplies run out, the occupants must surrender or die. In the fort of the mind the occupants, which are thoughts, need a thinker to pay attention to them and indulge in them. If the thinker witholds his attention from rising thoughts or challenges them before they have a chance to develop, the thoughts will all die of starvation. You challenge them by repeatedly asking yourself 'Who am I? Who is the person who is having these thoughts?' If the challenge is to be effective you must make it before the rising thought has had a chance to develop into a stream of thoughts.

Mind is only a collection of thoughts and the thinker who thinks them. The thinker is the 'I'-thought, the primal thought which rises from the Self before all others, which identifies with all other thoughts and says, 'I am this body'. When you have eradicated all thoughts except for the thinker himself by ceaseless enquiry or by refusing to give them any attention, the 'I'-thought sinks into the Heart and surrenders, leaving behind it only an awareness of consciousness. This surrender will only take place when the 'I'-thought has ceased to identify with rising thoughts. While there are still stray thoughts which attract or evade your attention, the 'I'-thought will always be directing its attention outwards rather than inwards. The purpose of self-enquiry is to make the 'I'-thought move inwards, towards the Self. This will happen automatically as soon as you cease to be interested in any of your rising thoughts.

Annamalai Swami in David Godman, Living by the Words of Bhagavan, pages 272–73.

For those practising self-enquiry ,the above teaching is sufficient.
Namaskar.


« Last Edit: November 22, 2012, 07:43:12 AM by Ravi.N »

Subramanian.R

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #42 on: November 22, 2012, 12:52:42 PM »
Dear Ravi,

Yes, This is the sum and substance of Self Inquiry.

Arunachala Siva.

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2012, 12:59:26 PM »
Beautiful, Ravi. Crisp article...

Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

ksksat27

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Re: Authenticity of Bhagwan's Writings and Dialogues
« Reply #44 on: November 23, 2012, 12:03:53 AM »
Dear Nagaraj,
  :) You have not seen what I presented!
if you have read what I said you would not have been questioning all this !

Read my articles. you will understand.
and be open... not with an attitude to prove or disprove anything

Dear Tushnim

Not in this context, but independently I have observed your posts.  I may be wrong but this is what I feel.

I am sorry to put my views here:  All the below views may or may not be applicable to you.  But if you find anything useful to take, please do take it.  Otherwise,  please ignore.    I thought of writing this for a long time but did not .  Today I thought , i am not doing justice by hiding . So I am writing.

You seem to accept Annamalai Swami and his teachings.

But we need to remember the fact that advaita is only in experience --  the moment words come out, it is duality.

All the neo-advaitins and modern day instant vedanta schools commit some sort of mistake like this -- jumping suddenly to Self and overlooking the karma, desires,  moha etc. that one has so far accumulated.  It is very important that one practice detachment and burn his vasanas before he is ready for  a experience of Self.

In this process which is called sadhana,  devotion is very very very important.    A devotion to Guru and Ishwara is very mandatory,  a  humility,  a perfect surrender and a perfect faith all are based on devotion only.

Without devotion --  no jnana.   

All our intellectual knowledge has no use.   I may quote Manukya Upanish very nicely,  but still I may have many bad vasans.

So one must be very careful in seeing that he does not fall down by the pitfalls in the course of sadhana.


In Bhakthi marga,  there is very little danger.

But in Jnana marga,  one has to be very careful.  Otherwise,  Maya Shakthi has power to smash all our good intentions.


All this verily exists --  individual egos,  vital pranas,  different karmas,  Ishwara,   Suffering,  fear, lust,  punya, papa,  Devas, Pithru Devas, Ashwini Devas,five elements and its Devas,  the 27 nakshatras,  the Ashwini Kumaras,  the Rishis,  the Sun and other ADITYAS,  the mother earth and her spirit,  the Lord of seas,  Lord Indra,  Lord Brahma,  the Manus, the Prajapatis, the Ganapatis, the Gandharvas etc etc. etc.

We need to take every step very cautiously having utmost humility and we shoud try to offer our duties to above stakeholders to best possible extent. If detailed mantras are not known,  alteast once in a week one can re-collect all the above and offer our prayers by calling their names

Likewise many many things are there.

I can only re-collect Sarada Devi here.  For all problems differnt disciples ( spiritual and material) brought to her,  she always used to advise them to pray to her Guru Ramakrishna Parahamsa.

Just by total devotion and surrender to Thakur,  she experienced samadhi and fianlly realized Self.
Nothing else she did. 

That is where the trick lies --

Once the famous Guru Nisarghadatta Maharaj's own Guru told this --    this Brahman knowledge seems very very difficult,  but with Gurus grace which is like honey directed towards disciple,  he easily sees through the state.


Before closing, let me again tell,  not all these are aimed only at  you,  as a well wisher I just pass on all this. 

Please dont mistake me .

Ramanarpanam:

« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 12:08:08 AM by ksksat27 »