Author Topic: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments  (Read 14119 times)

Ravi.N

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Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« on: November 16, 2012, 01:03:39 PM »
Subramanaian,
Self cannot leave the Body.There is no going and coming for the Self.Self alone is.The Body viewed as a corpse is only an 'idea'.This 'idea' is used to counter another idea-'I am Body'.In deep sleep,do we perceive Body as a corpse?No,it just does not even exist.
Just like in dream,the mind projects the Dream Body and a Dream world,so in the waking state,the mind projects a Body and the world.
Self alone exists in Sleep,dream and Waking State.The 'I' persists in all these three states and when enquired into, disappears and what then remains cannot be described.There is none to describe it.There is no one to 'own' it and say 'I am Liberated'.
Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2012, 03:18:30 PM »
Dear Tusnim,

I have given clarifications on this point vide my reply to Ravi and others under Sri Bhagavan Ramana Teachings.

Arunachala Siva.

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2012, 04:00:33 PM »
udai,
I stand by what I have stated.It is upto you to take it or leave it.The 'I' or the ego is very much there in deep sleep as well, in the subtle form of enjoyer and not as doer.If this is not so,there will be no recollection of having slept well;Again,If it were not so,then how would one wake up if one's name is called and that too selectively so,whereas one sleeps without even being awakened by Thunder.In fact Waking,dream and sleep are simultaneously present at any point in time and it is only the predominance of one or the other that determines whether one is in waking,Dream or Sleep state.
Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2012, 04:11:59 PM »
Dear Ravi,

I shall give below the conversation of Sri Bhagavan given in - Letters from Sri Ramanasramam, entry dated 11.09.1947.
This is given as a cross reference to Padamalai verses (in English), Verse 1671 and 1060, by David  Godman.

"There is really no such thing as a dead or a living body. That which does not move we call dead, and that which has movement
we call alive.  In dreams, you see any number of bodies, living and dead, and they have no existence, when you wake up. In the
same way, this whole world, animate and inanimate, is non existent. Death means THE DISSOLUTION OF THE EGO. and BIRTH
MEANS THE REBIRTH OF THE EGO. You exist whether the sense of ego is there or not. You are its source, but not the ego-sense.
Deliverance means finding the origin of these births and deaths and demolishing the ego sense to its very roots. That is deliverance.
It means death with full awareness. If one dies thus, one is born again simultaneously and in the same place with aham sphurana known as 'Aham, Aham.' One who is born thus, has no doubts whatsoever.

Arunachala Siva.

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2012, 04:17:14 PM »
subramanian,
Thanks.The Focus is not on the Body.I have posted already what Sri Bhagavan said with regard to calling Body as insentient.You may go through that in the Teachings of Sri Bhagavan thread.
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2012, 04:35:58 PM »
Friends, i humbly request you to be aware enough to discuss in this thread  :D thanks so much, it will be neat and orderly.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2012, 05:15:57 PM »
udai,
Jada is only apparently so.It is because we are not sensitive to perceive the consciousness dormant in them.If our minds can become sensitive enough we may be in a position to sense that.All items that we use also have their consciousness and respond to us.I would request our friend Subramanian to post on what Sri Bhagavan said when the stone slab he sat on was forcibly removed and transported.Everything is a throb of consciousness only.
The Human body is a particularly sensitive mechanism which has an intelligence on its own to fight invasions ,adjust and adapt to changes in environment.All this without any conscious volition on our part.
Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2012, 05:30:43 PM »
Dear Ravi and Tusnim,

I don,t readily remember the 'stone slab removed' story. But I can give another story. Once a Westerner was arguing with Him
about the food habits He spoke about cow's milk stating that it is non vegetarian since the milk comes from the blood. Sri Bhagavan
said that a cow with full udder of milk gets nirvritti by releasing it to the calf or to others. There is nothing wrong in that. Even
sannyasis were taking milk. Then he asked about plants, particularly the greens which we remove the earth once and for all.
Sri Bhagavan said that such greens have short lives and even if we don't pluck them, they will wither away by evening.
Then came the bacteria in milk and other materials. Sri Bhagvan retorted saying: There is no end to your argument. Even the stone
slab you are sitting on has millions of bacteria and by sitting on them you are killing them. Many bacteria in the stomach in helping
the food to digest. Bacteria die when we take medicines for illness. Along with viruses, bacteria also die!

Arunachala Siva. 
       

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2012, 06:40:47 PM »
Udai,
Your pot analogy is used to explain the jivatma, paramatma relationship-The space in the pot is no different than pure space,but appears limited on account of identification with the pot.

What I have said is that the very Matter itself is a form of consciousness,only that it is involved in matter.This is how Sri Ramakrishna puts it:

The world does not exist apart from God

"It may be asked, 'How has Satchidananda become so hard?' This earth does indeed feel very hard to the touch. The answer is that blood and semen are thin liquids, and yet out of them comes such a big creature as man. Everything is possible for God. First of all reach the indivisible Satchidananda, and then, coming down, look at the universe. You will then find that everything is Its manifestation. It is God alone who has become everything. The world by no means exists apart from Him.
"All elements finally merge in akasa. Again, at the time of creation, akasa evolves into mahat and mahat into ahamkara. In this way the whole world-system is evolved. It is the
process of involution and evolution. A devotee of God accepts everything. He accepts the universe and its created beings as well as the indivisible Satchidananda".

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #9 on: November 16, 2012, 08:52:37 PM »
Udai,
I am not sure whether you have come to grips with a few things.What is your position on the following:

1.whether the 'Ego' persists in sleep?
2.Whether you deem standing apart from thoughts in waking consciousness is abidance in Self?
3.Whether nirvikalpa samadhi is a prerequisite to abidance in Self?

I find your viewpoint on matter and consciousness ,sort of mixed up,and not experiential.

Namaskar
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 08:55:41 PM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2012, 10:21:57 PM »
udai,
I am posting this excerpt from Talks with Sri Ramana maharshi;may be useful to revise your understanding:

D.: How long did it take Maharshi to realise the Self?

M.: This question is asked because the name and form are perceived. These are the perceptions consequent on the identification of the
ego with the gross body.
If the ego identifies itself with the subtle mind, as in dream, the perceptions are subtle also. But in sleep there are no perceptions.
Was there not the ego still? Unless it was, there cannot be the memory of having slept. Who was it that slept
? You did not say in
your sleep that you slept. You say it now in your wakeful state. The ego therefore is the same in wakefulness, dream and sleep. Find
out the underlying Reality behind these states. That is the Reality underlying these. In that state there is Being alone. There is no you,
nor I, nor he; no present, nor past, nor future. It is beyond time and space, beyond expression.It is ever there
.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2012, 10:13:46 AM »
udai,
Theory is theory!Vasanas do centre on something.That centre has to be penetrated.Whether one calls it ahamkara or anyother thing does not matter.The self enquiry has to cut in through all these layers for them to be resolved in The Self.This is what Nirvikalpa samadhi is.
To think that Samadhi is not essential for self realization is erroneous.
The point that I am making is that most people mistake a little freedom from being invaded by thoughts as abidance in the self,which it is not.
Namaskar.

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2012, 12:04:42 PM »
Ravi Garu,

just for your own good i am requesting to address people with full respect when writing as well sir.

I very well know that it is never your intention really and you have respect for everyone but can you if possible do it in writing as well please.

Generally it is best to avoid addressing people only with their names and may be you can start addressing like example udai ji or dear udai or whatever formal ways you wish sir..

Sorry if you are hurt but thought of letting u know about this..


Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2012, 12:16:22 PM »
Prashant,
I appreciate your view.Did you notice the 'Namaskar' or thought it is just another Protocol! :)
'Garu' ,'Ji' 'avargale' etc may be used in normal communication as a protocol.
Here the names are used as ID and Namaskar is offered to the Self or God who we are.
Are we expected to say 'GODji' or 'SELF Garu'? :)
I feel quite comfortable if people address me as just Ravi and not as Sri Ravi(sounds like Sri Sri Ravi! :))
I just leave it to others as to how they choose to address me and am okay with it.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings-Comments
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2012, 12:29:10 PM »
Prashant,
"Sorry if you are hurt but thought of letting u know about this"

As I said that this is not a social Forum.If one considers oneself as a Sadhaka and is hurt by what is said here,it is time that he reconsiders what he is doing as Sadhana!
This is not to say that we condone abuse or character assasination,etc.We need to be civil but not to the point of becoming wishy washy.
The interesting thing that I have observed is that those who practise jnAna Marga and believe that ego is unreal are the ones who get hurt fast!The Ego is the only thing alive and kicking! :)
Those who practise  devotional path are generally more simple, receptive and do not get hurt by what is said.This is my observation ,others may differ. :)
Namaskar.