Author Topic: pure karma kandin some observations.  (Read 3043 times)

ksksat27

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 968
    • View Profile
pure karma kandin some observations.
« on: October 26, 2012, 06:33:54 PM »
in course of the topic on Lalitha Sahasranama,  atmavichar mentioned about his vedic scholar priest
his family priest --  a pure karma kandin -- so he acknowledges only vedic portions and if at all
any free time is there,  one should chant gayathir and further his vedic portion only.


Atmavichar did not elaborate that priest's stand on other matters.

But this kindled to write more on this topic --  because this is another branch of a 'learned'
thing that prevails.  So my discussion is only for constructive purpose and not to condemn anybody.


Well --  there is a feeling among these vedic scholars that these type of sthothras,  Gurus
bhajans,  nama japa are somehow not authorized in vedas.

If we apply this more strictly,  then verses like Thiruvasagam, Muruganar's sannidhi murai
or Bhagavan's tamil works on arunachala are all to be considered not in line with vedic authorized
caption.


While Vedas are vast,  scattered,  flashed in intuition of many rishis,  these priests forget the fact
that not all vedic mantras are really discovered until now.


And they also fail to discover that,  ultimately Atma or God cannot be reached by vedas
and equally by any other path.  One has to only be humble and receptive for to Grace to reveal itself.

So I have half an hour free time --  if I chant Upadesa Undhiyar but not Gayathri,   according to
these priests,  I am simply wasting my time.


An interesting episode happened when Paramacharya was present in Kanchi Math one time.

Book name I forgot -- written in Tamil by Bharani Dharan --  will give details later.

It was a day before Rama Navami.  There was a vedic priest same like our atmavichar family priest type --  who came for darshan and who wanted to leave on that day.

Maha Periva told him to either leave a day before and peform Ram Navami Pooja at home or to stay back
and see Ram Navami Pooja in the math.

He suggested that travelling on festival day would not give him a chance to peform pooja.


So this priest,  knowing very well that Paramacharya always stood by traditional vedic practices, boasted his scholarly knowledge only to get 'severe' scolding later.

So what this priest replied was that "I have no pictures of Rama or Krishna in home. These type of poojas or utsavam are not there in origianl vedas.   So he does not believe in all these modern day practices"

Paramacharya ,  immediately got very much angry ,  he asked him many questions ,  but closed with a remarkable warning "even running a advaita math and giving prasadam are not part of your vedic practic protocol ,  so you leave this place without prasadam"


Then the priest really got nervous ,  prostrated,  sort pardon.  Story goes this way.


And so,  if one has to approach that Truth humbly,  it is enough that one somehow connects to this
Atma by any means.  It is not necessarily only vedic verses.

Staying quiet or improving one's devotion to a Avatara is equivalent to Gayathri japa.


There is another brilliant in-between class --  they wont directly downplay 'extras' we are performing.

But what they will do is,  these type of parayanas are only secondary and auxiliary to main vedic portions,  say you get 100% fruit,   by all these extra type cateogry you earn only 10% merit.


May be like something is better than nothing.

So all these are 'something'  done by the vedically ignorant masses. 


So chanting 'sannidhi murai ' by some muruganar -- is it inferior to Gayathri mantra?  can one have that feeling?  that itself is ego.   The strict karma kandins should recognize the basic flaw in their arguments --  we start with no expectance of fruits whether it be gayathri or a simple poem.

Their eyes are always on the fruit .


As Bhagavan Ramana told ,  even a stone if worshipped with full devotion is Ishwara.

So wherever we look there is only Gayathri only in different form.


atmavichar100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2354
    • View Profile
Re: pure karma kandin some observations.
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2012, 06:45:18 PM »
Kskat

One of the reasons why I use this forum to get Opinion is that many of these things that are discussed here are of no importance to my family Vedic Priest who is a staunch Karma Kandin but is quite well read in his subject .So I use him only to conduct rituals in my family and to consult him on some vedic related rituals that are being performed .I respect him as a Vedic Priest and give him the due respect and never try to argue with him with my half baked knowledge .At the same time my sadhana is my personal journey and I carry on the same with as much sincerity as possible respecting the tradition as much as possible .
BTW if you read the dialogues of Sringeri Acharya Shri Chandrasekhara Bharati Swamigal it will be quite similar to what my Vedic Priest says i.e first doe ur Brahminical duties like Sandhavandanam , Samithadanam/Oupasanam and if u have extra time then do other things but do not sacrifice the daily Nitya Karmas for doing Other things .The same is also Paramachrya of Kanchi's views . There can be exception to these rules but I do not consider myself as an exception to this .

So let us not waste time arguing with others .Let us start doing whatever sadhana is possible and proceed step by step once we get more clarity .
Om Peace .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

ksksat27

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 968
    • View Profile
Re: pure karma kandin some observations.
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2012, 07:03:34 PM »
Kskat

One of the reasons why I use this forum to get Opinion is that many of these things that are discussed here are of no importance to my family Vedic Priest who is a staunch Karma Kandin but is quite well read in his subject .So I use him only to conduct rituals in my family and to consult him on some vedic related rituals that are being performed .I respect him as a Vedic Priest and give him the due respect and never try to argue with him with my half baked knowledge .At the same time my sadhana is my personal journey and I carry on the same with as much sincerity as possible respecting the tradition as much as possible .
BTW if you read the dialogues of Sringeri Acharya Shri Chandrasekhara Bharati Swamigal it will be quite similar to what my Vedic Priest says i.e first doe ur Brahminical duties like Sandhavandanam , Samithadanam/Oupasanam and if u have extra time then do other things but do not sacrifice the daily Nitya Karmas for doing Other things .The same is also Paramachrya of Kanchi's views . There can be exception to these rules but I do not consider myself as an exception to this .

So let us not waste time arguing with others .Let us start doing whatever sadhana is possible and proceed step by step once we get more clarity .
Om Peace .

No I dont want to argue.

I want to unfold everything clearly,  what has to be said,has to be said in full explicit tone.

No harm in it.

So these acharyas ask to first finish all rituals --  not only gayathir but sandhya,  brahma yagna,  opasana etc.  and then if time permits,  only if time permits take up all these other sadhanas.


I want to unfold this to the fullest conclusion --  ultimately we are going to do what we are inclined to do only.


Ok now I am a brahmin --  i have say 2 days leave.

In Saturday monring I start and finish all this by 1 PM.

There is a big Ramana Satsang from 2 PM to 8 PM --  self enquiry,  parayana etc.

So these acharyas prefer me to skip this programme and instead do sayam sandhya only.

But simply people like me are not inclined or have a attraction to do these rituals.

Partly because all other 5 days ,  everything has turned upside down in office.

And even assuming i have all 365 days,  the society around me is not a vedic society now.

I cannot do vajapeya yagam or even teh daily agni hothram,  i dont know details but if smoke is coming my owner will not allow .

So you see --   what was applicable on vedic ages on a strict basis cannot be extended today.

What is possible,  yes we have to do with sincerity,  but to say that only after doing all this,  if time permits ,  do self enquiry means, i will never get time.

And involuntarily this creates a division in our mind --  is not it?  so these vedic rites are superior and if I just roam around some temple it is only secondary and of less value.


So your family priest,  for him , all our forum stuffs do not make any sense at all,  so probably according to him,  all brahmins who neglected vedic rites but doing self enquiry are straight away heading to hell.

Whatever may be,  I am interested to know how your family priest considers these two greatest personalities -- Shirdi Sai and Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi.

Ofcourse they dont need anybody's recogniztion

But still their position -- what impression they have made in this karma kandin automaically answers many subtle questions and even the impressions that these karma kandin sect carries.

If possible please ask him.


Point is not to argue or enter into unnecessary fight, but there should not be any conflict between
what we really believe.

For example, if in corner of my mind,  if I keep this attitude that somehow these 'parayanas' are inferior to vedic mantras,  then there is no point in my sadhana.

Hope you understood.


Very sorry if I spoke anything wrongy.


atmavichar100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2354
    • View Profile
Re: pure karma kandin some observations.
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2012, 07:18:38 PM »
Quote
Whatever may be,  I am interested to know how your family priest considers these two greatest personalities -- Shirdi Sai and Bhagavan Ramana Maharshi.
Kskat

I have told you that he is a staunch Karma Kandin and they are entitled to their views . He does not put a gun on my head and ask me to follow him . When I ask him an opinion he will give an answer as per shastras only and hence I never discuss with them these things nor seek their opinion about Other Gurus .He has a role in my life and I use him only for that . I have also mentioned in one of my earlier posts that it is futile to keep on verifying about each and every Guru . There are the teachings available to us , we need to do our own sadhana , sharpen our intellect and learn to segregate what is relevant from what is ir-relevant .Forums like these help us in getting certain inputs and we must be glad for the same .
 There will be lots of doubts no doubt but we cant wash away all doubts in a single day and we have to travel our own path through trial and error .So let us not waste time on these things and spend time in Sadhana( Karma , Bhakti , Yoga ,Jnana ) . So let us keep faith in God and do what best is possible for us and for our situation .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47944
    • View Profile
Re: pure karma kandin some observations.
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2012, 07:30:04 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

Karma kanda does not suit one these days, excepting sandhya vandanam, chanting some slokas etc. How many of us do yagam
and even Agni hotram. These as you say brings out smoke and the neighboring flat fellows would complain to Fire station!
Yoga needs a teacher and it is hard to get one nowadays, Only bhakti and jnana sadhna is possible where auxillary support is
not necessary.
   

That is why Sri Bhagavan said in Upadesa Saram Verse 10:

Absorption in the the heart of Being
Whence we sprang
Is the path of action,  of devotion       
Of union and of knowledge.

Arunachala Siva.

atmavichar100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2354
    • View Profile
Re: pure karma kandin some observations.
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2012, 09:20:37 PM »
Quote
Karma kanda does not suit one these days, excepting sandhya vandanam, chanting some slokas etc.

Most of Acharyas today are happy if people do Sandhya Vandanam twice daily with Gayathri Japa ( thrice better but not possible for most who have to go to work ) . Plus they are happy if people do their monthly Ammavasya rituals , annual Sraddham to their parents, support Vedic Scholars , support one's Kula Deivam Temple wherever possible  . This is the minimum Karma Kanda expected by all Acharyas .

I am right now doing twice Gayathri Japa of 54 times each and do my monthly Ammavasya without fail and also Annual Sradhham for my Father and do my best to support Vedic Dharma, Kula Deivam Temple  in whatever way I can . I am now slowly tuning myself to make  my move from twice Gayathri Japa to Sandhya Vandanam twice daily as Sandhya Vandanam is a perfect combination  of Karma ,Bhakti , Jnanam if done with right understanding and Bhava . I understood the seriousness /importance of Sandhya Vandanam only after listening to the 10 talks on the same by Swami Paramarthananda as well as reading Sringeri Acharya Sri Chandrasekhara Bharati's dialogues on the same and felt such a beautiful sadhana has become a very boring ritual these days and that due to lack of proper education in these matters many have given it up and hence I felt I need to restart it again but as I have already invested my time and energy in other Sadhanas ( like Yoga , Sanskrit and Tamil chanting etc ) , I need to slowly fine tune it to my schedule .It is a simple Sadhana and just need a tumbler of water and 20-30  mts of time morning /evening but merit is very high . It confers immediate relief in form of a calm mind and also confers adrishta pala ( unseen beenfits ) in due course .

However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: pure karma kandin some observations.
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2012, 09:43:46 PM »
Very good summary Sri Atmavichar,

The least that is expected is precisely as said by you, thank you! :

Most of Acharyas today are happy if people do Sandhya Vandanam twice daily with Gayathri Japa ( thrice better but not possible for most who have to go to work ) . Plus they are happy if people do their monthly Ammavasya rituals , annual Sraddham to their parents, support Vedic Scholars , support one's Kula Deivam Temple wherever possible  . This is the minimum Karma Kanda expected by all Acharyas .

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: pure karma kandin some observations.
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2012, 09:58:38 PM »
Infact it would be wrong to say, that the acharya says this and the priest who is karma kandin saying this. Poor souls, they truly have nothing to do with these!

These are said by the shAstrAs laid down since time immemorial. Infact, AchrayAs say they themselves do not have any right is changing the shAstrAs. The Dharma remains the same all through. Nobody can change just because of change of time and lifestyle.

We all are capable of sparing 20 minutes in the morning and evenings. It is question of shradDHa and faith and willingness. It is because of notion, as to what will I gain from these karmas, that is hindrance!

The main point to note is that these karmas are devised in such a way, so as to take the person beyond any gains, you just do it, coz it is ordained! You do not do it for any personal gains!

All the 18 chapters of gItA's essence is found in sandhyA vandanam.

Infact there is one instance, when seeing Bhagavan say to Muruganar that he no longer need perform any karmas, another devotees stops doing his nithya karmas, and then Bhagavan admonishes him and asks him to resume his nithya karmas.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

atmavichar100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2354
    • View Profile
Re: pure karma kandin some observations.
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2012, 10:23:24 PM »
Quote
These are said by the shAstrAs laid down since time immemorial. Infact, AchrayAs say they themselves do not have any right is changing the shAstrAs. The Dharma remains the same all through. Nobody can change just because of change of time and lifestyle.

In Bhagawan's Brilliant Selection of 42 essential verses of the Bhagawad Gita "Essence of the Gita ", while almost all the verses deal with "I" , I found one verse strange  that Bhagwan had introduced and that Verse was the last verse of Ch-16 i.e this verse is a response from Krishna for Arjuna's question as how one should Conduct one's life and this is what Lord Krishna answers :
Verse 24 Ch-16
Therefore ,sastra is the means of knowledge for you  (Arjuna) , in the determination of what is to be done and what is not to be done .Knowing what is said by the mandates of the sastra, you are obliged to perform action here ( in this world )
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 10:55:38 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: pure karma kandin some observations.
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2012, 10:29:56 PM »
Si Atmavichar, true, amazing discovery! :) Yes, it seems rather strange and surprising!

I am sure, Sri Atmavichar, this discovery of of yours, of Bhagavan's select verse from the Gita, will go a long way over here with all beloved devotees!

Gratitude

with prayers,

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta