Author Topic: Common Discussion  (Read 31876 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Common Discussion
« Reply #75 on: November 03, 2012, 04:25:19 PM »
Jewell,
The only purpose is to realize God and Love him.Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

"Siva was seated in Kailas. His companion Nandi was near Him. Suddenly a terrific noise
arose. 'Revered Sir,' asked Nandi, 'what does that mean?' Siva said: 'Ravana is born. That is
its meaning.' A few moments later another terrific noise was heard. 'Now what is this
noise?' Nandi asked. Siva said with a smile, 'Now Ravana is dead. Birth and death are like
magic: you see the magic for a second and then it disappears. God alone is real and all else
unreal. Water alone is real; its bubbles appear and disappear. They disappear into the very
water from which they rise
."

Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Common Discussion
« Reply #76 on: November 03, 2012, 05:06:35 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Absolutely true!!! Our ONLY purpose is to realise who we are,there can be no question of that! And,yet,we cannot know trough wich way we will realise That..

Sure,i dont know about others,i know only for myself!

With love and prayers,

Nagaraj

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Re: Common Discussion
« Reply #77 on: December 05, 2012, 05:39:25 PM »
Dear Udai,

I just want to convey again as a good friend, i do not have absolutely anything person against you. my persistence in debating with you is to only bring to your awareness the dangers of traps of knowledge. I do not deny you do come up with good pointers of truth, but it is evident that you are caught up rather strongly in possessing knowledge, if you can only give up the sprouting owner in your, it will be sweet and nice, more than to anybody else to your own good self. :)

Once Paul Brunton asked Bhagavan Ramana:

"To attain enlghtenment, should I give up all possessions?" 
Bh:  "Give up the possessor too!"

There will be an ocean of paradigm shift if you present your expressions as such a one. Why all these speeches in trying to enlighten everybody else? Why engage in illusive speeches of pointers to others? when Others themselves are illusions ultimately?

Just request you to introspect for your own self :) in the millions of other pointers, i hope you may consider this for your own good :)

Best wishes and prayers,

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Common Discussion
« Reply #78 on: December 05, 2012, 05:50:45 PM »
         :) The knowledge is non-possess-able.
Awareness which is pure Presence just IS.

While explaining a point, one uses "I" and that "I" , the ego, is present as a burnt rope ... an "Objective" I. A Mirage.   

To whom are you explaining?

:)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Common Discussion
« Reply #79 on: December 05, 2012, 05:59:42 PM »
"Explaining" , the "one who is explaining"  and the "explained to" are all three mithya.
Self neither explains nor is the teacher or student.
one who knows he is the Self is comfortable with explaining as well as remaining mute!
and he is also clear as to the difference between he who knows and he who does not know ... coz they are all mithya. vyavaharika. and mithya does not vanish upon jnana.

Then who is it that is doing all the the expressions?

:)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Common Discussion
« Reply #80 on: December 05, 2012, 06:27:04 PM »
You play the role of Ravana in a play and say "i am not Ravana".
Where is the problem ?:)

To whom you are having to say "I am not Ravana"?

:)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Common Discussion
« Reply #81 on: December 20, 2012, 05:05:40 PM »
Quote
:) is it not?
:) No.
Jnana Viheena Sarvamathena, bhajati na muktim janma shatena.
One without jnana, what ever religious system he practises, will not find liberation even in a 100 births.
Lets not discuss this here however. These are like my musings ... if they seem dry to some its ok.

What jnana you are talking about? can you please elaborate the Jnana? :) what is the basis of your saying 'NO'

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Common Discussion
« Reply #82 on: December 20, 2012, 05:56:17 PM »
Brahma-Atma-Aikya-Bodha vina, without this Brahma-Atma-Aikyam ... no possibility of liberation.

How does Brahma Atma Aikya Bodha Vina occur? and where does it not occur?

1. How does a person find liberation ?

Who is it that finds liberation?

2. What is liberation ?

Who remains to know what is liberation? You have said, however, brahma atma aikya is liberation, as quoted by Adi Shankara.

3. Who finds liberation ?

This is my question to your 1st question.

4. What is bhakti ?

Brahma Atma Aikya is Bhakti


5. Whats jnana ?

Brahma Atma Aikya is jnana

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Common Discussion
« Reply #83 on: December 20, 2012, 06:24:15 PM »
When you said "Brahma-atma-aikyam" is jnanam/bhakti ...
what do you mean ?
Who needs this ?
Self ? Which is ever one with Brahma-atma-aikyam does not need it.
Body ? Does not need it !
so you are left with mind...
plz tell me ...

I quote from the Svetasvatara Upanishad (6.23) to your query -

यस्य देवे परा भक्तिः यथा देवे तथा गुरौ ।
तस्यैते कथिता ह्यर्थाः प्रकाशन्ते महात्मनः ॥
प्रकाशन्ते महात्मन इति ।


यस्य For whom देवे to God परा भक्तिः Supreme devotion यथा देवे as to God तथा So गुरौ To the Master ।
तस्यैते To that [high souled] one कथिता expounded ह्यर्थाः these truths प्रकाशन्ते shine महात्मनः to that high souled॥
प्रकाशन्ते महात्मन इति shine as High Soul indeed.

These truths, when taught, shine forth only in that high-souled one who has Supreme Devotion to God, and an equal degree of devotion the Spiritual Master. They shine forth in that High-Souled one only.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Common Discussion
« Reply #84 on: December 20, 2012, 06:25:24 PM »
Nagaraj/Friends,
What is Brahma-atma aikya?What is Brahma?What is atma?What is aikya?
I thought ,let me also use my rusty reasoning and give it some work. :)

Reminded of a painting competition where children participated.All but one child were busy Drawing and then colouring and when the time was up ,they handed over their painting to the teacher.One child which just did not use either pencil or colour handed over a Blank sheet.On being questioned,she said that she had drawn a Goat with Grass and  aTiger?On being further questioned she said,'Yes,The Goat had eaten the Grass and the Tiger sprang on the Goat and has carried it away;Now nothing is left to be seen'.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Common Discussion
« Reply #85 on: December 20, 2012, 06:36:10 PM »
udai/Friends,
Ofcourse you were in the list of friends.What about Nagaraj now?
Now are you in the list? :)
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Common Discussion
« Reply #86 on: December 20, 2012, 06:52:39 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,
      :) Please also explain that to us in simple english :)
Because I did not read this upanishad.
and more importantly a upanishad study means i have to look into what shankara says there.
so you can express your exact view on this. that would be good.
question is single pointed:
who gets brahma-atma-aikyam ?
body, mind or Self ... or anything else ! like a ghost may be ?

Please take time and see what Shankara has to say. Just to let you know that Adi Shankara called this Upanishad as the Mantra Upanishad. A key feature of the Svetasvatara Upanishad is its emphasis on the bhakti or Upasana aspect to realise the Supreme. It has passages allied in thought to the Sankhya Yoga, with the Upanishad laying equal stress on jnana, bhakt and other spiritual paths.

I do not have any personal view Udai, i am just re-producing as it is, i do not try to instill my own personal views on upanishads, any personal views, I occasionally express in my thread "My Musings"

You asked -

question is single pointed:
who gets brahma-atma-aikyam ?
body, mind or Self ... or anything else ! like a ghost may be ?

I have provided for the response to your query in in what i quoted from Svetasvatara Upanishad (6.23) -

यस्य देवे परा भक्तिः यथा देवे तथा गुरौ ।
तस्यैते कथिता ह्यर्थाः प्रकाशन्ते महात्मनः ॥
प्रकाशन्ते महात्मन इति ।


यस्य For whom देवे to God परा भक्तिः Supreme devotion यथा देवे as to God तथा So गुरौ To the Master ।
तस्यैते To that [high souled] one कथिता expounded ह्यर्थाः these truths प्रकाशन्ते shine महात्मनः to that high souled॥
प्रकाशन्ते महात्मन इति shine as High Soul indeed.

These truths, when taught, shine forth only in that high-souled one who has Supreme Devotion to God, and an equal degree of devotion the Spiritual Master. They shine forth in that High-Souled one only.


॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Common Discussion
« Reply #87 on: December 20, 2012, 06:55:14 PM »
What is Brahma-atma aikya?What is Brahma?What is atma?What is aikya?
I thought ,let me also use my rusty reasoning and give it some work. :)

Reminded of a painting competition where children participated.All but one child were busy Drawing and then colouring and when the time was up ,they handed over their painting to the teacher.One child which just did not use either pencil or colour handed over a Blank sheet.On being questioned,she said that she had drawn a Goat with Grass and  aTiger?On being further questioned she said,'Yes,The Goat had eaten the Grass and the Tiger sprang on the Goat and has carried it away;Now nothing is left to be seen'.

only the child is left to disappear further :D , perhaps, upon handing over the paper to the teacher, he is no more to be seen :)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Jewell

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Re: Common Discussion
« Reply #88 on: December 20, 2012, 06:57:54 PM »
Dear Sri Tushnim, I am sorry,i saw late that message,about moving discusion here. :) I will move my posts when i come through computer.

Ravi.N

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Re: Common Discussion
« Reply #89 on: December 20, 2012, 07:15:27 PM »
Friends,
Let us keep things simple.Bhakti is the love and attraction that one feels towards God who is more oneself than oneself!Even if it be dualistic,what is the problem?Absolutely none.
Jnana is to be aware of the presence of the one  we love.
Magnetic poles are two but magnetic field is one.Such is jiva Brahma aikya.
This is how Sri Ramakrishna puts it simply :
"The mind is like a needle covered with mud, and God is like a
magnet
. The needle cannot be united with the magnet unless it is free from mud. Tears
wash away the mud, which is nothing but lust, anger, greed, and other evil tendencies, and
the inclination to worldly enjoyments as well. As soon as the mud is washed away, the
magnet attracts the needle, that is to say, man realizes God. Only the pure in heart see God".

Namaskar.