Author Topic: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings  (Read 197219 times)

Pythagoras

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #840 on: November 28, 2014, 08:12:27 PM »
Hi,

Thanks for answering but it still does not answer my question.

If a thought pops up such as "I am beautiful" for example. Do I hold on to that thought for as long as I can?

And I still don't understand why he says "I, I'. Why are there 2 I's? What does the first one mean, and what does the second one mean?

And what do you mean up to a certain point Bhagavans's method is neti-neti? Do I negate every thought if a thought comes up such as "I am nice, I am handsome, I am rich" And use "No I am not this, no I am not that"?

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #841 on: November 28, 2014, 10:05:51 PM »
Dear Pythagoras,
according to Sri Ramana's teachings holding on "I-thoght" which he called "aham-vritti" is holding your attention on the observer of the the thought, not on the thought itself. "I" observes itself. There are not two "I". This is one and the same "I" which due to dualistic experience is expressed as the mind (the illusiory "I"). Atma-vichara is actually Self-awareness. Nothing more.

Yes, Bhagavan has also prescribed "neti, neti". He thought that rejection of the thoughts which come in our mind makes the mind calmer, more stable and more fit for atma-vichara. But his main method is atma-vichara.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Pythagoras

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #842 on: November 29, 2014, 03:46:51 AM »
Dear Hari,

Thank you, that made sense for me a lot, but I still don't get why he puts it as "I, I"? Are you suppose to say "I...I"?

I also find this quote:

"Another widespread misunderstanding arose from the belief that the Self could be discovered by mentally rejecting all the objects of thought and perception as not-self. Traditionally this is called the Neti-Neti approach (not this, not this). The practitioner of this system verbally rejects all the objects that the ?I? identifies with ??I am not the mind?, ? I am not the body?, etc.-in the expectation that the real ?I? will eventually be experienced in the pure uncontaminated form. Hinduism calls this practice ?self-enquiry? and, because of the identity of names, it was often confused with Sri Ramana Maharshi?s method. Sri Ramana Maharshi?s attitude to this traditional system of self-analysis was wholly negative and he discouraged his own followers from practising it by telling them that it was an intellectual activity which could not take them beyond the mind. In his standard reply to questions about the effectiveness of this practice he would say that the ?I?-thought is sustained by such acts of discrimination and that the ?I? which eliminates the body and the mind as ?not I? can never eliminate itself."

So I don't quite get it, at times he says yes, but according to David Godman, he says he was wholly negative to it.

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #843 on: November 29, 2014, 12:15:31 PM »
Dear Pythagoras,
saying that Sri Ramana is pro this and against that cannot be correct. He accepted all the teaching and prescribed practices of the Great Ones. He just insisted that Self-inquiry is the most practical one. For him "neti, neti" method of Shankara was very useful but he didn't consider it so much practical. The only practical and direct method according to him is the Self-inquiry, Self-awareness or saying another way awareness-watching-awareness.

Yes, Sri Ramana very often says "I, I" but these are not two "I". Nobody can say for sure what exactly he meant. But this is not important at all. His teachings are so much clear that don't worry about this thing. May be he meant that "I, I" is the realization that "I-thought" (the false "I") is the same as the real "I". Or it is some kind of "echo" within the Heart. And no, you are not supposed to say "I", "I, I" is realization, not repetition. But you can use "aham, aham" ("I", "I") as mantra. This is also prescribed by Sri Ramana.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43554
    • View Profile
Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #844 on: November 29, 2014, 01:13:01 PM »
Mind is nothing but a bundle of thoughts, says Sri Maharshi.  So thoughts are much subtler than even the ether. Subtler
still than thoughts is the parent thought, the 'I'-thought, says Sri Bhagavan.

Beyond the 'I' - thought is the Pure Mind, devoid of any thoughts, including the 'I' thought.  This Pure Mind is the basis for
the rising of the 'I'-thought immediately on waking from sleep.  It is in the 'form' of brilliance, of course, without form or heat.

Beyond even this brilliance, illumination , light is the Self -- the subtlest of all, the very ground, turiya, on or from which
everything arises and into which everything subsides. 

Self alone IS - the only eternal unvarying ground of all existence.  All  else is, by definition, neither real nor true.  Everything
comes and goes does not abide beyond time and space, that is, the Mind.

Thus, beyond and transcending the five elements, time, space, and thoughts and even the 'I'-thought, is THAT, the Self.

Now, picture the place of Mind in this geographical map.

It is the one which is subtler than ether yet, as gross as earth in relation to the Self, See the predicament!

Does not the demand on us to transcend the Mind appear insurmountable, incomprehensible, and therefore impossible?

contd.,

Bhagavan Ramana Teachings.

V. Ganesan.

Arunachala Siva.                 

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43554
    • View Profile
Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #845 on: November 29, 2014, 01:17:07 PM »
But Self Inquiry is not the mind's inspection of its own contents.

It is tracing the mind's first mode, the 'I'-thought , to its Source, which is the Self. 

Of all the thoughts that arise in the mind, the 'I' thought is the first. It is only after the arising of this thought that others
arise.


After the Rain.

Arunachala Siva.
 
 

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43554
    • View Profile
Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #846 on: November 30, 2014, 12:50:09 PM »
Bhagavan Ramana Teachings:

That is:

We do not know what ether is.  Mind is subtler than ether.  Thus, how can we hope to get rid of something which we do not
even know?

Accepting the validity of the Upanishadic statement that 'it is like walking on a razor's edge,; the task does look difficult and
perhaps, impossible!

Yet, sternly turn your attention to Bhagavan Ramana, who confirms again and again that it is 'the easiest'!

The former statement poses it a problem, whereas the latter categorically affirms the opposite.

That is:

If you want to try to tackle it, as a problem, hen the mind becomes all important, predominant, projecting the whole
undertaking as extraordinarily difficult, almost impossible.

Reverently turning to the Maharshi, we find the entire issue clarified. 'Raise the question 'To whom' is the problem?  The answer
is 'to me'.  Question it further, 'Who am I?' Watch!  Immediately. all thoughts stop!  When there are no thoughts, there is no mind.
You need no proof other than your own experience.  With proper Self inquiry, there ensues a state where the mind has voluntarily
become inoperative.  A state of Silence alone prevails.  That Silence is the Self. You are THAT -- Tat tvam asi.

contd.,

V. Ganesan.

Arunachala Siva.           

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43554
    • View Profile
Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #847 on: November 30, 2014, 12:56:08 PM »
When other thoughts arise, one should not pursue them, but should inquire:

'To whom do they arise?'

It does not matter how many thoughts arise.  As each thought arises, one should inquire with diligence, 'To whom has this
thought arisen?" 

Thereupon,  the mind will go back to its source, and the thought that arose will become quiescent.

With repeated practice in this manner, the mind will develop the skill to stay in its source.  Thus, when the mind stays in the
Heart, the 'I' which is the source of all thoughts will go, and the Self which ever exists will shine.,

After the Rain.

Arunachala Siva.     

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43554
    • View Profile
Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #848 on: December 01, 2014, 01:34:19 PM »
See the simplicity of it all !  Don't convert 'You are That' into a concept, yet another thought.  Experience it as the Reality
that is your core, the imperishable, unchanging ground of your existence. Experiencing and not thinking is the clue.

All the questions and baffling riddles are raised, reared, prolonged and enriched and fattened only by the mind.  In that state of
mind, Self Knowledge is impossible for the simple reason that the mind, so gross, is obstructing it -- solid iron wall between
Self Knowledge and your vibrantly feeling it,  Being it. Where there is mind, THAT is not felt, where there is THAT alone,
there is no mind!

Bhagavan Ramana |Teachings.

V. Ganesan.

Arunachala Siva.     

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43554
    • View Profile
Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #849 on: December 01, 2014, 01:40:28 PM »
Self Inquiry is the one, infallible means to realize the unconditioned, absolute Being that you really are.  The very purpose of
Self Inquiry is to focus the entire mind at its Source.

Every kind of Sadhana except Atma Vichara presupposes the retention of the mind. 

While the ego may take different forms, it is itself never destroyed.

To attempt to destroy the ego through sadhanas other than self inquiry is like the thief assuming the guise of a policeman
to catch the thief that is himself.

Atma Vichara alone can reveal the truth that neither the ego nor the mind really exists, and enable one to reealize
the pure, undifferentiated Being of the Self. 

Having realized the Self, nothing remains to be known.

After the Rain.

Arunachala Siva.

 
.   

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43554
    • View Profile
Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #850 on: December 02, 2014, 12:44:39 PM »
Truth, Reality is your real Being, devoid of every trace of thought.  That is Self.  To BE this Silence, which is the Self,
i.e. Self Knowledge.  And it is the 'easiest thing, the easiest thing there is,'   since what IS is only THAT. 'Simply be
is Truth. To be 'this' or 'that' is falsehood' said Bhagavan. 

"To be" (the Self) is the easiest thing there is since you have nothing to do but only simply to BE.  -- your eternal and true
nature. 

To be 'this' ( a 'somebody') is by, its very dependence on mind and elements, a falsehood.  Hence its pursuance always
brings untold misery, for, in order to 'be somebody' much mental and physical exertion is required, blocking us from our
true nature, through birth after birth.

Bhagavan Ramana Teachings.

V. Ganesan.

Arunachala Siva.     

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43554
    • View Profile
Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #851 on: December 02, 2014, 12:47:28 PM »
All the texts say that (...) one should render the mind quiescent; once this has been understood, there is no need for endless
reading.

In order to quieten the mind, one has only to inquire within oneself, what one's Self is.

How could this search be done in books?

One should know one's Self with one's own eye of wisdom.

Thus there will come a time one will have to forget all that one has learned.

After the Rain.

Arunachala Siva. 

Pythagoras

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 38
    • View Profile
Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #852 on: December 03, 2014, 01:41:00 AM »
Q: We Europeans are accustomed to a particular diet; change of diet affects health and
weakens the mind. Is it not necessary to keep up physical health?

Ramana Maharshi: Quite necessary. The weaker the body the stronger the mind grows.

What does he mean by "The weaker the body the stronger the mind grows."?


Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #853 on: December 03, 2014, 02:42:38 AM »
Q: We Europeans are accustomed to a particular diet; change of diet affects health and
weakens the mind. Is it not necessary to keep up physical health?

Ramana Maharshi: Quite necessary. The weaker the body the stronger the mind grows.

What does he mean by "The weaker the body the stronger the mind grows."?

I think that he meant the general understanding that eating meat makes body strong but it weaks the mind because it makes it more rajasic (active, agitated and passionate) and tamasic (having inert quality, ignorant). So not eating meat 'weakens' the body but makes mind stronger by adding more sattvic qualities to it by vegetarian food.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43554
    • View Profile
Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #854 on: December 03, 2014, 01:51:04 PM »
Bhagavan Ramana Teachings:

Holding to the Truth, the ground, our true nature, -- is the easiest.

'NO Mind' = TO BE.

Holding to untruth is painful for it brings about cycle of births and deaths.  Moreover, your efforts to escape from it by
means of any of the hundreds of methods of sadhana are equally painful and fruitless as they are based on mind.  All
Sadhanas except Atma Vichara, Self Inquiry, are mind oriented, says Bhagavan.

Why not listen to the Master, Bhagavan Ramana, who says 'You are the Self and Self Knowledge is the easiest thing
there is.'

V. Ganesan.

Arunachala Siva.