Author Topic: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings  (Read 196906 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1605 on: July 07, 2016, 07:25:21 AM »

Swami Natanananda


Sapta Jnana Bhoomikas or the Seven Stages of Knowledge-Experience, is mentioned both in
Upadesa Manjari and Vichara Sangraham, in the Collected Works of Sri Ramana Maharshi.
Of these, Sadhu Natananada himself is the questioner to Bhagavan Ramana in Upadesa Manjari. 
Vichara Sangraham is of course, is edited by Sadhu Natananada.

David Godman says that the sevem stages--classifications, are as under, as mentioned in
these two books compiled by Sadhu Natananda.

1. Subheccha - desire for enlightenment.
2. Vicharana - inquiry.
3. Tanumanasa - tenuous mind.
4. Sattvapatti - self realization.
5. Asamsakti - non attachment.
6. Padartha bhavanana - non perception of objects.
7. Turyaga - transcendence.

Those who have attained the last four stages -- bhoomikas,
are called -

Brahmavid - the One who has realized Brahman.
Brahmavidvara - the One who is superior among the knowers of
    Brahman.
Brahmavidvarya - the best among the knowers of Brahman.
Brahmavidvarishta - the very best among the knowers of Brahman.

I am able to hear some of the readers asking 'What use of these classifications?  What does
it really mean?  What is the use of me knowing these?

For this Bhagavan Ramana Himself has answered:

The marks of the stages 4 to 7 are based upon the experiences of the realized person, Jivan Mukta.
They are not states of knowledge and release.  So far,as knowledge and release are concerned,
no distinction is made in these four stages.

David Godman adds in his book (with commentary), on Sri Ramana Darsanam:

One should remember the different phases that Bhagavan Himself went through.  He experienced
Nirvikalpa Samadhi while He was at school without any effort on that eventful day in Madurai. 

During the early period of His stay in Arunachala, for many years, He was immersed in the transcendent
state, like a Brahma Varishta, without the feelings of sense perception, hunger and thirst.

Afterwards, He attained the Sahaja state and remained in that state, until His final nirvana,
shining as an accomplished Brahma Nishta.

(Source:  Sri Ramana Darsanam, Tr. and commentary by David
Godman of Sadhu Natananda's book.)

Arunachala Siva.



Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1606 on: July 08, 2016, 07:46:30 AM »

No books can give us self knowledge as a Jnana Guru's silent gazing does. 

This incidentally gives some answers on Sakshu Diksha. 

Many saint poets used to address Siva as Eye.  It is nothing but
seeking Siva's gaze.  Muruganar has sung a decad titled Tiru KaN
Nokkam, in Sri Ramana Sannidhi Murai, describing Bhagavan's
powerful eyes.  The eyes of the Guru looks at your eyes and then
enters the mind to cleanse it up.  The gaze is a long cleaning duster,
like we use in our homes, but more powerful and potent.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1607 on: July 08, 2016, 07:50:33 AM »

In the ancient days, a formal Brahma Jnana Guru was considered essential.  Rama chose
Vasishta to obtain this Brahma Jnana.  In case of Arjuna, the BG was said primarily to
do away with anatma jnana and to enable him to go all out for war since all bodies perish
one day.  Arjuna himself forgot this teaching later and one evening, he asks Krishna to tell
all that once again.  Krishna smiled and said, You did not forget it. It is within your Heart.
And it will come back to your help at the appropriate time.  Krishna left the world and Arjuna
became nervous and helpless.  At that time, he remembered Krishna's words.  In BG, it is said,
that one should go to a self realized Jnani to obtain Brahma Jnana.  I also do not know the
exact verse.  I shall post it soon.  The story of Arjuna asking for Brahma Jnana, years later than
war comes in Mukti Skanda the last chapter of Srimad Bhagavatam.

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1608 on: July 09, 2016, 07:36:38 AM »



Letting go of all thoughts about the objective world - is the thoughtless state, that is essential
for self inquiry.  Thought about God within, Bhagavan Ramana says, Atma Nishtaparan, in
Who am I? is the greatest devotion.  Hence this thought should be retained till it matures into
surrender.  Once the total surrender becomes your nature, there is no need even for thought of
God, since there is only God within you and not any more of you.

The question, for whom this thought arises? is necessary and must be continued, till worldly
thoughts keep bothering you.  At one stage, for whom this thought arises? - will not arise at all.
That is abidance in Self.  If this abidance in Self becomes permanent, then it is Sahaja Stithi.
Thereafter every worldly activity of yours will be done by That, as Ribhu Gita, Ch.26 Verse 25 states.

Arunachala Siva.

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1609 on: July 11, 2016, 07:17:30 AM »



1.  One can be without mind, that is, mind permanently curling up in the Self.  This is the no-mind state. 

2. Mind when not outward pointed permanently, it is said to curl up in the Self.  It is like the moon on
the high noon.

3. Every activity of all living beings, is due to God's engineering and the living being's vasana.
A terrorist also kills a group of people out of God's engineering, but it is his vasana which has thrust
him that work.  Sri Ramakrishna used to say to Kali.  Thum Yantri Ami Yantra.
You are the operator and I am the machine.

Okay, why God instead of keeping quiet, should engineer the living beings?  The answer is:
Who am I question Him?  Among the million spermatoza, one unites with ovum and causes fertility.
Why this particular one, among the millions?  Who chooses?  God. Why should He?  Who am I to
question Him?

Arunachala Siva.


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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1610 on: July 14, 2016, 07:10:40 AM »

Bhagavan Ramana answers this point in Upadesa Manjari,
as told to Natananda.  In Chapter II - on Abhyasa, He says like this:

Natananda:  Is the state of 'being still' a state involving effort or
effortless?

Bhagavan:  It is not an effortless state of indolence.  All mundane
activities which are ordinarily called effort, are performed with the
aid of a portion of the mind and with frequent breaks.  But the act
of communion withthe Self (Atma Vyavahara) or remaining still
inwardly is an intense activity which is performed with the entire
mind and without break.

Maya (delusion or ignorance) which cannot be destroyed by any other
act, is completely destroyed by this intense activity which is called
Silence (Mauna).

Arunachala Siva.


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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1611 on: July 16, 2016, 06:38:32 AM »

Atma Vicharam:

1. Inititally some scheduled time should be allotted.  Preferably
at night, when the world around is quiet.  This scheduled time
should be increased.

2. In due course, it becomes uninterrupted throughout the day,
even during work and in work-stations.

There are many conversations in "Talks" and "Day By Day" and "Letters from Sri Ramanasramam" and "Maharshi's Gospel", covering these aspects.

3.  He has told Annamalai Swami (vide Sri Ramana Ninaivugal -
Tamizh by Annamalai Swami) once:  "Opening the eyes and doing
self enquiry or meditation is better in the beginning.  Closing the
eyes would create rush of unwanted thoughts in larger measure.
It is like throwing a ball at a wall, standing very close to that wall.
The ball will rebound with higher speed to hit you.  If you throw
a ball at a wall from a distance, the rebounding ball will not come
speedily."

Arunachala Siva

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1612 on: July 16, 2016, 06:41:51 AM »



In good and happy times, hardly few think about God or Guru.
When the life situation becomes utterly unmanageable, with penury,
diseases, sorrows, one should think of God or Guru. But we do not
do that.  Because, our ego tries to fight these miseries, without
seeking God or Guru or we become deluded by the events around
us and do not have mental make up to think of God or Guru.  That
is why, one Azhwar said:  Appothaikku, Ippothe solli vaithen Narayana.
"I do not know whether I can chant your names Narayana, in times of
unbearable distress, and that is why I am chanting your names now!"   
This is the situation.  But we do not chant his names ippothe, now itself,
as a reserve for appothe, at that time of distress.  This is the human behavior
for most people.

When the horses became jackals again at night, the Pandya King
grew very angry at Saint Manikkavachagar and made him walk on
the summer sands of Vaigai river, with hot bricks on his head.
The Saint sang:  "Namasivaya, Namasivaya, even if I faint I should
think and chant your name in subconscious state!" 

How many of us can do this?  It is very difficult.  On the last day
of His avatara period, that is on 14th April 1950, at about 8 PM,
the inmates in the Asrmam suddenly started in chorus, singing:
Arunachala Siva, Arunachala Siva....  Bhagavan Ramana raised His
back from the pillows and looked at them with abundant grace and
thankfulness.  Tears rolled down from His eyes. At 8.47 He left
His body as a meteor!  He is the complete Guru, with no mind/body consciousness
for 54 years and no vasanas whatsoever.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1613 on: July 17, 2016, 07:56:45 AM »



The only way is to surrender to Guru/God.  He does not care for the jivas' mistakes and pitfalls,
sins and wrongdoings.  He wants you to protect you and for that he needs one's total surrender.
Draupadi was calling Krishna with many names, when she was being disrobed. But she was holding
tight the saree at one end. When she left that hand, and raised both the hands in total surrender,
Krishna made her saree to grow endlessly and Dushasan became tired and fell down.  Raising both
the hands, without bothering about the saree end falling down, is total surrender. At that moment,
God comes to your rescue.  But God / Guru does not act against nature.  The sarees simply grew.
He did not cause a massive heart attack to Duschasan to die.

Arunachala Siva.

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1614 on: July 17, 2016, 07:58:25 AM »


Whenever a thought occurs, ask for whom this thought?  To me.
will be the answer.  Ask who am I?  The thought goes off.  If
it reappears again after some time or days, again use the same
process.  There is nothing like good and bad at all.   Both are
contextual and not absolute.  When I shoot a person on the road,
I am sent to jail.  A solider can shoot many of the enemy forces
and will get Veer Chakra award.  The Upanishad speaks about a
brahmin, who is dead hungry and he finds a horse-rider on the road.
The horse rider gives him some horse-grams.  He eats and says
You are my life giver.  This brahmin would not touch raw horse-grams
on any other day.

Arunachala Siva.

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1615 on: July 18, 2016, 07:42:28 AM »


Bhagavan Ramana never spoke about in any detail, since the Self has no sex and Bhagavan saw
everyone as Himself, the Self.  No woman and man differences.  But He took people as they were
and graced them to improve.  David Godman mentions about one such question by a devotee and
Bhagavan Ramana said:  "You can sleep with your voluptious neighbor, provided you have no
sense of doership!"   This answers all the questions.

Once Chinnaswamy drove away a coolie because he was making advances to another voluptuous
lady-coolie.  Bhagavan Ramana did not say anything at all about this incident.  Next day, while
coming down from the Hill, He saw a dog vigorously copulating with a bitch.  He asked a devote
who was standing beside Him:

"Who is going to drive away these dogs?"

Un kaNNil neer vazhinthal kannamma, en kaNNil udhiram kottuthadee..... Poet Subrahmanya Bharati.
If tears flow down from your eyes, blood flows down from My eyes!  Bhagavan Ramana
treated even the most sinful as worth for improvement and not for punishing.  He has also said:
"I have come here to grace the people and not to punish them.  If I start punishing erring beings,
not even a crow can fly over the Asramam!" 

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1616 on: July 18, 2016, 07:44:32 AM »


Self Inquiry is inquiring into the futility of all non-self.  Once the Truth is found, there is no more
practice.  The way and the goal become one.  See Sri Arunachala Navamani Malai:  Annamalaiyai
adiyenai, aNda anre, en aavi udal, koNdai, enakkor kurai undo?  Kuraiyum gunamum nee allal,
ennen ivatrai ennuiyire, eNNam adhuvo adhu seyvai, KaNNe un dhan kazhal iNiayil kadhal
perukke tharuvaaye.....

Just love and surrender to Bhagavan Ramana.  All roles would take care of themselves.

Arunachala Siva.   

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1617 on: July 19, 2016, 07:38:32 AM »


Sri Bhagavan said:

Question, answer, further question, further answer.  This is endless.
This reminds of Gaudapada Karika and Panchadasi, where the
"whether the egg came first or the hen came first"... question
is taken up and answered. (This is of course, regarding free will
and destiny dichotomy.)  Sureswara says in Panchadasi:  "Break
the egg and crush the neck of the hen.  Throw them both to the
earth.  Prostrate and pray to the earth, from which was born both
the first egg or the first hen."  Then all questions will stop.  No answers
will come. It is like, as Bhagavan said, the stick that stirs the funeral pyre.....
in Who am I?  The answer-less state (or further question-less state) is abidance.

Arunachala Siva.

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1618 on: July 20, 2016, 07:52:51 AM »



If you read old Tamizh and Sanskrit scriptures, you will find that Sages were eating only air and
water, they call it Vayu bakshanam and Jala bakshanam.  This is impossible.  Then, they have
mentioned that one can eat dry fallen leaves of trees and fruits that had fallen on their own
on the ground.  But practically speaking even Sages have to live nd they have to eat something.
Hence they prescribed the plant and fruits, which at best, one may say, are in the lowest cycle of
beings.  The animals, birds and fish are on the higher rung of the evolution ladder.  And the first
two 'express' the pain while being killed. Hence this was forbidden.  Advaita in fact, never speaks
on this subject.  Only Saiva Siddhantam, which came into practice sometime from 300 AD,
prescribed this because Siva is grace embodiment.

"Saivam" in Tamizh means Vegetarian apart from the Siva doctrine.

We can, if we want, prescribe a level as it suits one.  It is
only to improve the Sattvic qualities, that shall aid Atma Vichara.
(Who am I?)

Jainism and Buddhism prescribed vegetarianism as the code of
conduct.  But practically today, they have fallen way behind eating
all sorts of non vegetarian items, like pigs, snakes, sharks and whales and frogs!

Arunachala Siva. 

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1619 on: July 20, 2016, 07:55:33 AM »


The only way is to surrender to Guru/God.  He does not care for the jivas' mistakes and pitfalls,
sins and wrongdoings.  He wants you to protect you and for that he needs one's total surrender.
Draupadi was calling Krishna with many names, when she was being disrobed. But she was
holding tight the saree at one end. When she left that hand, and raised both the hands in total surrender, Krishna made her saree to grow endlessly and Dushasan became tired and fell down.  Raising both
the hands, without bothering about the saree end falling down, is total surrender.
At that moment, God comes to your rescue.  But God / Guru does not act against nature.
The sarees simply grew. He did not cause a massive heart attack to Duschasan to die.

Arunachala Siva.