Author Topic: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings  (Read 196451 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1500 on: April 03, 2016, 07:59:16 AM »

The question we need to ask is: what is the most important thing that we need to do with our lives? 
Leave aside the duties of supporting and raising a family.  Leave aside the necessity of earning a living.
The most important duty we have to ourselves is to be true to our nature, our "swadharma",
and this at whatever the cost for who does not agree with Thoreau's observation that, "Most men
lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them."

Bhagavan Ramana did not encourage people to renounce the world.  He advised dispassion and
questioning of the assumptions we automatically make ourselves and others.  We lead for the
most part a mechanical existence whether we are aware of it or not.  We take our opinions from
newspapers and TV news channels.  What Bhagavan Ramana advised was discrimination
between what is eternal and what is ephemeral. We should be wary of an easy escape by thinking
that we can do nothing.  Thoreau said:  "As if you could kill time, without injuring eternity!" 
Time is precious.  Bhagavan's daily routine was fixed by the clock.  He would go for days without
speaking and yet the Asramam would be unaffected because there was a discipline and purpose
to each activity, which gave the day momentum and meaning.  In the midst of activity Bhagavan
sat in silence and moved as if alone.  There was a solitude to Him which was impervious to the round
of events.  He was the Sun around which the devotees spent their days and thoughts. His
constant and unfathomable abidance in, for want of a better word, what we call the Self, was a
source of joy and awe for those who were open to its manifestation.  The few words He
spoke, the small amount of literature He wrote, were all cherished for nothing was wasted.  Each
word was meant, each gesture had significance.

One wonders what Thoreau would have made of an encounter with Bhagavan.  One imagines
Thoreau would have found in Bhagavan the answer to his search for meaning and in a face to face
encounter words would have been discarded.  For Thoreau wrote: "Could there a greater miracle
take place than for us to look through each other's eyes for an instant?"

During his last years, Thoreau suffered from incurable tuberculosis, and slowly faded away over
a number of years. But he was writing articles for journals even in bed as an invalid.  When his aunt
asked him: "Whether he had made
peace with God", Thoreu replied:  "I did not know we had
ever quareled!"

Among his last dying words were:  "Now comes good sailing!"

Let us leave Thoreau the final word:  "It is not what you look at, that matters, it is what you see."

(Source: As indicated in Part I of Complete Works.)

Arunachala Siva.         

atmavichar100

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1501 on: April 03, 2016, 12:56:27 PM »


CONVERSATIONS WITH ANNAMALAI SWAMI

Q: Sometimes God appears to devotees in a physical form. Is the form of God real or is it just imagination?
AS: If you see names and forms you are looking at your imagination. If you only see the Self you are looking at reality.
Namdev and Tukaram had great devotion to Krishna. They
thought of Him so much that He often appeared before them and talked to them.
I once asked Bhagavan, 'How did these saints see Krishna?
Was the form they saw a real form??
Bhagavan answered, 'How did they see Him? In just the same way that I see you and you see me. They would have seen a
physical form in just the same way that ordinary people see ordinary forms.?
These words had such a powerful effect on me that I immediately entered a blissful state in which all my hairs stood on end.
When devotees told Bhagavan that they had had visions of
Rama or Krishna, he would sometimes reply, 'Oh really, and where is Rama now?'
When the devotee admitted that he could no longer see the vision Bhagavan would say, 'Visions come and go; they are not permanent. Find out who is having the vision.'
The formless Self is the only reality. It is the real nature of
God. In His real form God never appears or disappears; He is always present. If you turn your attention towards the Self and
keep it there you will experience Him as He really is.
?Living by the Words of Bhagavan?, p. .293
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1502 on: April 04, 2016, 07:39:09 AM »


We can believe that the sages when they say: Our fate is simply a bundle of habits.  If you want to
change your fate, --- change your habits.

We now understand that a guru is necessary.  But for many sincere people longing for spiritual
attainment, the dilemma of 'Where is my guru, among so many who are not?'  still remains looming
before them.  Bhagavan Ramana spoke precisely to them by declaring that one should first
understand:

"What is a guru?  Guru is God or the Self.  First man prays to God
to fulfill his desires.  A time comes when he will not more pray for
the fulfillment of material desires but for God Himself.  God then
appears to him in some form or another, human or non-human to
guide him to Himself in answer to his prayer and according to his
needs."  [ S.S. Cohen, Guru Ramana].

A devotee inquired of Bhagavan Ramana.  "Is there any way to meet the appointed guru for each?"

Bhagavan:  "Intense meditation brings it about."  [Talks 135].

Therefore, the search for a guru is only to the search for God.  We
need not search in vain for the place to knock, for it is within.
Krishna said: "My glory is within."  Jesus also assures us of the
direction to find the guru as the 'pearl of great price' by saying, "Seek
ye first the Kingdom of God of Heaven and all else shall be added
unto you."

This kingdom is within our very Heart, and Bhagavan Ramana offers two ways of approach,
and then clearly instructs us how to unite with it.

"There are two ways.  'Ask yourself --- Who am I?' or 'Submit and
I will strike down the ego.'  [Arthur Osborne].

Seeking your true nature in your Heart, discovering it and rejoicing in it by bathing in the bliss of my jnana swarupa -- this is within."

"Only bhakti sadhana performed continuously with love facilitate easily, in a gradual way,  this union."

"Enter with love the temple that is in your own Heart and experience the bliss of being absorbed in my swarupa, becoming one with it."  "I myself will command and control a mind that has died by the sacrifice of the ego."    [Padamalai, Muruganar. Tr. David Godman ].

(Source: Swami Sadasivananda's article in MP 2008-2009)

Arunachala Siva. 


Sadhak

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1503 on: April 04, 2016, 10:13:19 AM »
Dear Subramanian,

You raise a good question and I am not sure whether even Cohen has answered your question completely.

"God then appears to him in some form or another, human or non-human to guide him ".

But your question still remains.
"the dilemma of 'Where is my guru, among so many who are not?'  still remains looming before them."

There a lot of claimants today in every street corner especially in tiruvannamalai who offer to guide people. They have no qualms in claiming to be God or self realized!


Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1504 on: April 04, 2016, 04:49:32 PM »
Subramanian/sadhak,

Quote
You raise a good question and I am not sure whether even Cohen has answered your question completely.

"God then appears to him in some form or another, human or non-human to guide him ".

But your question still remains.
"the dilemma of 'Where is my guru, among so many who are not?'  still remains looming before them."

There a lot of claimants today in every street corner especially in tiruvannamalai who offer to guide people. They have no qualms in claiming to be God or self realized!

The story of Chandekar Maharaj and how mataji Krishnabai met him answers this question in a subtle way.I will post this in the Rough note book thread.

By the way,I am reminded about the story of how a person was asked to write an essay on the tamarind tree......that person had seen a tamarind tree but did not have enough material to write an essay on it.....So,he began 'The Tamarind tree has a strong trunk.The cow is tied to it.The Cow gives us milk.Buttermilk and butter are made from it,etc,etc..." and went on to write an essay on the cow.....so,this topic on 'Bhagavan Ramana Teachings' has also met with a similar fate!....ha ha.

namaskar

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1505 on: April 05, 2016, 07:47:50 AM »



The special aspect of (visesha amsa) of the Self is unknown to us.  That is to say, we are ignorant
of the Self's real nature.  Therefore, the Self is known in a general way.  This is evident from our
day to day statements, such as, "I know myself", "I exist", etc., which we all make at one time or
another. Beyond that, the real nature of the Self as truth, consciousness, and bliss remain unknown.
At most, some of us may have the intellectual knowledge of the Self from studying the scriptures or
listening to spiritual discourses.

The knowledge of the Self, even at the general level, is unlike the knowledge of an object, for example,
a stone or a chair.  A stone for instance, is always an object because it has to be known.  Being
a material entity, it can never be the knowing object.  As an object, the stone requires a subject to
know it.  The Self, however, is not in such a logical predicament.  The Self is not an object of knowledge.
These objects are known through 'pramanas', such as, perception. It is however, impossible to prove
the existence of the Self by any 'pramana'.

In the case of the Self, there is no need for any proof by any 'pramana'.  In the case of a building,
the existence of the superstructure is sufficient proof for the existence of the foundation
underneath.  The question of proof does not arise at all, because he building cannot exist without
the foundation.  The latter is presupposed by the former.  The same explanation holds good in the
case of the Self.  Every case of knowing is made possible by the Self and every time we make any
knowledge claim, we presuppose the existence of the Self.  So the Self does not remain unknown. 

An object requires something else to know it.  However, being the ground of all experiences, there is
really nothing apart from from the Self to know it.

" Where there is duality, there one perceives another, one smells another, one tastes another, one
contacts another, one knows another, but where all this is Atman, who is there to think, smell,
touch and know whom?  Who can know him by whom all this is known?....Who can know the
Knower?" declares Brahadaranyaka Upanishad. [4.5.15].

Indeed, the normal mind is an instrument of knowledge for ordinary objects.  Being a finite entity,
the mind can never know the infinite,  as the pen will never know or understand the writer who is
using it. More specifically, he Self being Self-luminous, Svaprakasa, is shining all the time, revealing its presence.  The term Svaprakasa, conveys the idea that while the Self reveals everything else, it itself
is not revealed by anything.  [Kathopanishad 2.2.15: Br. Up. 4.3.9].

(Source: As indicated in Part 1 of Arunachala's Ramana, Boundless Ocean of Grace.)

Arunachala Siva. 

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1506 on: April 06, 2016, 08:09:24 AM »

The "I consciousness, is the state of living with the mind, and with that the intellect, mind-stuff (chit)
and ego.  All of us are living with our minds and Bhagavan says that we have to bring it to single
monotone of praying to some God.  This is called mano-layam.  Then one can try the destruction of the
mind, mano-nasa.  When this occurs, we become One with the Brahman, where there is no two but
only one. In my personal case, I tried it on a few occasions, and with "some bliss", I developed
immense fear and I chanted Arunachala-Siva, a number of times to get back to my normal stupid self!
This is the experience of many others who had reported this to Bhagavan.  Perhaps, we
are not yet ready.

Arunachala Siva.

Sadhak

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1507 on: April 06, 2016, 11:34:26 AM »
Dear Subramanian,

"In my personal case, I tried it on a few occasions, and with "some bliss", I developed
immense fear and I chanted Arunachala-Siva, a number of times to get back to my normal stupid self!"

The 'I' must naturally be afraid to die and end itself. A very small part of the 'I' thinks it would be nice to end itself and starts to go about it but what it really wants is to exist and at the same time experience the bliss that has been told by the Jnanis. In other words, the I wants to experience the ending of the I and the bliss that comes with it! 

Your experience is fully understandable and there is nothing stupid about your normal self. That is how all 'I's' operate.

atmavichar100

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1508 on: April 06, 2016, 02:09:19 PM »
MORE TALKS WITH RAMANA MAHARSHI
Date: 16.9.42 Time: 10.15 A.M.

50. When i entered the hall a discussion was going on about self-enquiry. Bhagavan was in his usual posture with adorable countenance.

A frequent visitor said: Bhagavan has said that self-enquiry is simple, direct and effective. Though I try to follow the same I cannot say I have understood it. I put the question 'Who am I?' but there is no proper response from within. However, I am getting a sort of stillness.

Bhagavan: "How can you get the answer in words? It is not a regular mental enquiry to elicit a concrete answer. It is only a tool to direct the mind back to its source."

Visitor: Yes, I follow. But the result is not clear to me. There is a short-stillness which does not last.

Bhagavan: You should be steadfast in sadhana. By repeating the process you fix attention on the ego. the 'I'- thought. Whenever the doubt arises repeat the process and make the enquiry. Try to reach the source of the ego. Once you reach the source, by one-pointed effort, your peace will not be disturbed.''

NN Rajan.
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Sadhak

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1509 on: April 06, 2016, 08:00:16 PM »
"Whenever the doubt arises repeat the process and make the enquiry. Try to reach the source of the ego"

Bhagawan's teachings are clear. The trouble is when one starts to apply it. Then one finds out how difficult it is. It is not surprising that he said self enquiry (vichara) is suitable only for advanced seekers.

The ego veils the Self. Reaching the source of the ego means reaching the Self by death of the ego. Not surprisingly the ego will resist death with all its might. Fear (ego) will overcome the sadhana for most seekers thus preventing its death. It is simply not easy to achieve however easy it sounds and however many explanations are given. One who actually achieves the goal is a true jnani.

atmavichar100

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1510 on: April 07, 2016, 06:58:22 AM »


Questioner: How can the mind be made to vanish?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: No attempt is made to destroy it. To think or wish it is itself a thought. If the thinker is sought, the thoughts will disappear.
Questioner: Will they disappear of themselves? It looks so difficult.
Sri Ramana Maharshi: They will disappear because they are unreal. The idea of difficulty is itself an obstacle to realisation. It must be overcome. To remain as the Self is not difficult.
Questioner: It looks easy to think of God in the external world, whereas it looks difficult to remain without thoughts.
Sri Ramana Maharshi: That is absurd; to look at other things is easy and to look within is difficult! It must be contrariwise.
Questioner: But I do not understand. It is difficult.
Sri Ramana Maharshi: This thought of difficulty is the chief obstacle. A little practice will make you think differently.
Questioner: What is the practice?
Sri Ramana Maharshi: To find out the source of `I'.
~ from 'Talk 244'; 29th August, 1936
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1511 on: April 07, 2016, 08:00:41 AM »

People like Buddha, Sankara and Bhagavan Ramana -- are all self realized.  Their minds have
already been killed. When they come out to say something to others, they come down from their
levels to tell people AT THEIR AND FROM THEIR OWN LEVELS.  Then how does it happen?  If they
cannot have a mind, how can they something or other? Here Saiva Siddhantam comes to our help.
It says that Brahma Jnanis, if they continue their lives in the world to teach others, a mind called
Pure Mind, Suddha Manas, comes to operate.  It is with that Suddha Manas, they do all the teachings.
Suddha Manas does not cultivate prarabdha. It is like a roasted seed. It cannot flourish again. 
Buddha lived for 33 years more since he attained Jnana at the age of 50, like that to teach others.
Saint Tiru Jnana Sambandhar lived for 13 more years, he lived up to 16 when he had Jnana at
the age of 3!  Bhagavan Ramana lived for 54 years more, after realizing the Brahman at the age of 16.
During all their lives, the post-realization state was operating through either silence or Suddha Manas.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1512 on: April 10, 2016, 07:48:26 AM »



The Self is revealing all the time.  At the waking level, at the dream level, and at the deep sleep level.
The Self reveals because that it is its nature.  The Self is eternal light.  It reveals the world, the body,
the senses and the mind.  Even in deep sleep, where the mind, senses, and the body are absent,
the Self is still revealing.  It is like fire, where the burning capacity manifests when something flammable
like a piece of wood, is brought near it.  Fire burns only when something comes into contact with it. 

But unlike fire, the revelation of the Self is always manifest because it reveals not only the presence
of objects, as in the case of waking and dream states, but also the absence of objects, as in the case
of deep sleep.  The power of revelation of the Self is manifest in the presence as well as the absence of
objects.

It is the non-relational Self that becomes the Jiva, due to Avidya. The mind-sense-body complex is
a product of Avidya.  What is called the Jiva is the Self in association with or conditioned by the
mind-body complex.  The Jiva is the Self in the body.  Though the Self by its very nature is non-relational,
it becomes relational, as it were, with the mind sense body complex and gets involved in empirical
existence as the knower, agent and enjoyer.  The Self-in-itself, which is not involved in any empirical expereince, is called Tuirya, or simply the
Fourth.

This is the Self which is called Visva at the waking state, Taijasa at 
the dream state and Prajna in deep sleep state.  When all the three
states of experiences are transcended, when the Vyavaharika is left behind,
"That Beyond" where only the Self remains is called the Fourth or Turiya.   The
Fourth is beyond the three states of experiences.  There is no cognition, be it external
or internal, and all distinctions of knower, known and knowledge have faded into oblivion.
It is beyond Avidya.  It is, therefore, said to be trans-empirical and trans-relational.


Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1513 on: April 10, 2016, 01:26:33 PM »


In deep sleep, in spiritual trance (samadhi), when fainting, when a desired object is obtained, or
when evil befalls an object considered undesirable, the mind turns inwards and enjoys that Bliss
of Atman. Thus wandering astray forsaking the Self, and returning to it again and again is the
interminable and wearisome lot of the mind.

Arunachala Siva.

Balaji

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1514 on: April 15, 2016, 11:17:32 PM »

Just like the philosopher's stone, which has the wonderful power of turning base iron into noble gold, Sri Bhagavan's presence transformed even unfit persons into blessed ones. After many years of silence, when Sri Bhagavan started speaking a little, like bees swarming to a blossoming flower, the world of the intelligentsia started gathering around him. Some proud people, who had learned a little of Vedanta in the same way that they learned the Vedas, and who were in the habit of proclaiming themselves to be Brahman, could not bear to see the position of supreme eminence that Bhagavan was beginning to get. Out of envy they used to go to his presence with the intention of humiliating him by arguments. As soon as Bhagavan's look fell on them, like a cat that has seen a tiger, they were stunned and remained motionless like statues. After remaining in this state for a long period, receiving new light and feeling penitent, they would beg his forgiveness with great feeling. Sri Bhagavan, bestowing on them his gracious look, would console them, saying with a smiling face, 'When all are existing as He, who is to forgive whom? Abstaining from droha [treachery, harm, injury] to oneself is sufficient for salvation

from GVK 280 The gretness of the Guru 
Om Namo Bagavathe Sri Ramanaya