Author Topic: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings  (Read 196363 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1335 on: August 02, 2015, 08:01:13 AM »

We are all bound by the concepts of Time and Space. But Brahma Jnanis have transcended both Time and Space.
How?  Why?

The Time and Space are the products of the mind.  It is the mind, which is bound by time.  It is the mind, which is
bound by Time and by Space.

In Srimad Bhagavatam, Gajendra the elephant, whose leg was caught by the crocodile, suffered for 1000 years.
How can an elephant fight with a crocodile for 1000 years? Or why Narayana waited for 1000 years to lapse before
coming to the elephant's rescue?  Was Narayana late?  No. Narayana came swiftly to help the elephant.  He was
perhaps waiting for a few minutes for the elephant to call him, "Adimoolame!  O Primordial!"  But this few minutes
looked like 1000 years, because the sufferings were so huge, that every second looked like 10 years! 

We are also experiencing this.  I had once a ear-pain, which started troubling me, late night, say at 11 pm. 
The doctor was available only next day at 8 am.  So, I suffered for about 10 hours.  But these 10 hours appeared
like 10 days, since every second, the pain was becoming more and more unbearable and I had to grumble
and cry about my fate.

Now about Space.  Again, it is the mind's product.  Sometimes, the mind suddenly wanders to Chennai, where
I had my college education.  I begin to think about my professors and classmates. Thinking about Chennai, I am in Chennai for a few minutes, even though I am sitting in Bangalore.  for a few minutes!

Time and Space are products of mind.  So, the Jnani who has conquered the mind has no Time and Space.  He is
Kalatita,  He is Prapanchatita, beyond Kala and Prapancha.  Beyond Time and Space.  Bhagavan Ramana lived like that.
He has said one that He does not know whether it is morning or evening. Only on Jayanti days, He used to remember
that day.  He does not know whether He is in the Hill or in the Asramam or in Madurai and Tiruchuzhi.  He has said
this once to His devotees.

He was ever in the state of Naturalness.  Om Naisargiga Maha Tapase Namah:  (108 Holy Names of Bhagavan Ramana)

Arunachala Siva.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 08:06:31 AM by Subramanian.R »

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1336 on: August 03, 2015, 07:02:29 AM »


he Pure Mind or Suddha Manas, is the Suddha Sattva.  The impure mind, comes to a person even while in mother's
womb, due to vasanas, the carry bag, that is brought with the jiva from its previous birth.  The abidance in the Self
is nothing but pure sattva, the suddha sattva.  Here, the mind has no role, even if it is there.  Mano-nasam, the word
used by Bhagavan Ramana in Who am I? may mean extinction of mind or even extinction of thoughts, which come
about only when the mature seeker gets that with the grace of god or guru.

The impurities come to a mind, through vasanas, under three categories.  The first is Ego.  This is the most potent
one. The second is Kanma in Tamizh or Karma.  The third is maya or Mother's play with the jivas.  The seeker
upon maturity can overcome the second and third.  But the first, is the most difficult to conquer.  This ego, or
Anava in Tamizh, if conquered, the Jiva becomes the Self.  Complete Nonduality!  Mind conquest is the most arduous
task.  Saint Tauyumanavar says:  "Show me the religion that can teach me, to kill the mind.  And that is my
religion."

Bhagavan Ramana had conquered the second and third even during His previous births.  Or, if you consider Him
as an avatara, these were not there at all.  But the ego, was there. And He easily conquered that with 15 minutes
death experience in Madurai.  He became the Self even at Madurai in August 1896.  He had to come to Arunachala
on 1st September 1896, only to display His state for other's benefits, for 54 years.

Arunachala Siva. 
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 07:08:15 AM by Subramanian.R »

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1337 on: August 05, 2015, 06:46:52 AM »

The Ego, Karma and Maya are said to be the three impurities of living beings.  Ego is of course, is the sternest.
They exist together.  It is like my wearing a banian, a shirt and then a coat.  But when we remove them, we
remove the last worn item first.  There is no first come, first served basis.  Thus, the banian, is removed last.
In the same manner, ego has to be vanquished last.  The karma and maya can be removed by good karmas
and understanding the illusory world through devotion.  But ego will not give up its fight easily.  It can be
removed only through self inquiry, of course, or by total self surrender,  of course, with Guru's grace in
abundance.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1338 on: August 06, 2015, 07:01:51 AM »

Who am I? appears as a question, and not as a holy word (mantra).  The reply is:
After negating everything, what remains as Real, which is Knowledge, which is in the form of Sat-Chit-Ananda,
Existence-Knowledge and Bliss. Now people may ask that it is a question, which does not have any positive answer
but only removal of all negative answers by way of replies. Yes. It is true.  But this question leads to the Real,
the One without a second and that is the goal. 

Normally a mantra or a holy word, like Siva, Siva or Rama, Rama is constantly repeated to get into the goal. 
But here, the question or the apparent holy word is asked a few times or many times, depending upon the maturity
of the seeker.  The answer which is the goal, is Real. 

In the case of Siva, Siva or Rama, Rama, the mantra is repeated even after the goal is reached.  Sri Tyagraja,
a musician and a great devotee of Sri Rama, is said to have repeated the mantra a hundred million times in
his life time.  But here, the mantra is stopped once the goal is reached.

Sri Bhagavan Ramana Himself has said that Who am I? is not a mantra, in the ordinary sense of the words.

Arunachala Siva.       


Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1339 on: August 07, 2015, 08:23:55 AM »


Bhagavan Ramana says in Sad Darsanam, Verse 28,that in order to vanquish the ego, one must search for its
source, with deep attention, without speech and controlling the breath, as a pearl-diver would dive into the ocean
to fetch pearls.  Bhagavan Ramana also says this in Who am I?

What is vanquishing ego?  Ego is anatma, which is not the Self, and hence vanquishing all that is not the Self, is
killing of ego. 

How to go about it?  In ardent devotion, the ego will subside and one will know the Self. In Jnana, one knows the
Self first and the ego subsides. This is explained in Sri Arunachala Ashtakam, Verse 2 also.

Bhagavan Ramana looks at the Hill.  He subsides.  Still He wanted to know who has seen the Hill?  But there is no
seer and there is only Hill.  There is no thought that He has seen It.  Then, how can a thought that He has not
seen It, would arise?

He also says in Upadesa Saram, Verse 10 and 19, the same ideas.

Verse 10:

Absorption in the Heart of Being,
Whence we sprang,
Is the Path of action, of devotion,
Of union and of knowledge.

Verse 19:

When one turns within and searches
Whence this 'I' thought arises,
The shamed 'I' vanishes --
And wisdom's quest begins.
 
                -  Tr. Prof. K. Swaminathan.

Arunachala Siva.


Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1340 on: August 08, 2015, 08:04:15 AM »

I checked up Guru Vachaka Kovai, original Tamizh of Muruganar and English translation of David Godman. 
The five songs appear under Investigation of Truth.

Naraka Bhaya Thiran - The Terror of Hell:-

180. Only those who do not know the real nature of hell, the punishment world, will say that they shudder in
fear of it. But those who known the real nature of hell, the evil mistake (I am the body) will discover the means of
to end it and will surely reach the state of Truth.

Naraka Jaya Thiran - The Conquest of Naraka: 

181.  They say that Lord Narayana killed the demon Naraka, but really Naraka is the ego that parades itself by
taking the hellish body to be the "I".  Hence, those who inquire into the source of this Naraka, and destroy him are
indeed Narayana, the killer of Naraka.

182. Taken on Naraka Chaturdasi, the auspicious bath that symbolizes the conquest of Naraka is actually bathing
in the waters of true knowledge after killing Naraka, the ego, by tracking him down to his place of residence.

BHAGAVAN'S SONG No. 4 (interleaved into GVK):

Naraka is he who rules the world of Hell by taking the hellish body to be "I".  Hence who slays Naraka with the
discus of Jnana by enquiring "From where does this Naraka arise?" is Lord Narayana Himself.  That day indeed is
the auspicious Naraka Chaturdasi day.

183. Know clearly that Naraka is the one who is condemned to ruin through taking as "I" the foul mass of flesh,
the hell that is the body, whilst Dipavali is the eternal radiance of the Supreme Self, that shines after Naraka, the
reflection has been destroyed following the inquiry into his nature.

Bhagavan's song 5 (interleaved in GVK):

Clearly know that the auspicious day of Dipavali denotes the shining as the Self by seeking and destroying the
great sinner Naraka, who ruined himself by regarding as "I" the prison of the body, the source of misery that truly
is Hell.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1341 on: August 08, 2015, 08:07:55 AM »

In Verse 29 of Sad Darsanam, Bhagavan Ramana says that liberation is nothing but extinction of the ego.  There is
nothing to gain in self realization, but only to lose the ego.  Sri Lakshamana Sarma says in his commentary, Sri
Ramana ParaVidya Upanishad:

The extinction of vibhakti is Bhakti.
The extinction of viyoga is Yoga.
The extinction of kartrutva, doer ship is Karma.
The extinction of Abodha is Bodha, Jnanam.

In Talks, there were some conversations about yoga sastra and jnana sastra.  Bhagavan Ramana clarified
everything as per Sastras and finally said:  All these are only false.  The true Jnana is extinction of ego.
This is Liberation.

There is an example of Eraser (pencil eraser). We using the Eraser for erasing the pencil writings.  As we go
on erasing unwanted pencil writings, then at one stage, the Eraser also gets thin and disappear.  The
Eraser is erased.  Sri Sankara also says the same thing in his commentary of the first verse of Isvasya Upanishad.
(I do not have it readily.)

Arunachala Siva.     


Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1342 on: August 09, 2015, 07:54:40 AM »


Dipavali means the arrangement of lights.  Dipavali is thus a festival of lights, which is celebrated in India.
Hindus, Buddhists, and Jains also celebrate the festival, perhaps for different reasons.  It is celebrated on the
fourteenth day (night) of Kanya month, before the new moon.  People wake up quite early in the morning, around
4 am and take oil bath, wear new clothes that they could afford.  They take sweets and snacks.  Firecrackers
are of recent origin.  About 100 years back, there were no fire-crackers but they used to burn a particular wood
which gives out sparks of light.

In Sri Ramanasramam, right from Bhagavan Ramana's days, the festival is celebrated but with high modesty.
Devotees came to Him quite early morning, say around 6 am, after oil bath and wearing new dresses.  They brought sweets and snacks to Bhagavan Ramana and offered Him, a new pair of codpieces, and prostrated before Him.  There
used to be bhiksha, special meals on that noon, the cost borne by the devotees.

For Bhagavan Ramana, all days were equal, there were no special or ordinary days.  He used to receive the devotees
with a broad smile and talk to them.  For one Dipavali, when someone asked Him about the significance of Dipavali,
He composed two verses, as usual giving atma vichara sadhana.

The day that Narayana* grinds to death the Naraka-ego in the quest of knowledge, inquiring whence the Naraka-I
arises to rule the Naraka-world, that day is the light festival of Naraka-Chaturdasi.**

(* Narayana, (Krishna) as per Hindu theology, killed the demon Narakasura.
** Chaturdasi in Sanskrit means fourteenth day. This is celebrated on the waning 14th digit day of Kanya month, as per the wishes of the demon Narakasura.)

To search and slay the sinner, the Naraka-ego ,corrupted by the thought that one is the Naraka-form,
The false body-tenement, and to shine as The true Self, this is Dipavali indeed.       

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1343 on: August 09, 2015, 08:02:42 AM »

Sri Bhagavan has said:

Sri Dakshinamurty is actually a Formelss Self, but depicted as a form of a Guru.  A spiritual guru who looks at
His right chest from the north pole facing south. It is dakshina-amurty.  South facing formless God, symbolically.
Spritual North Pole, the Deathless, looking at the south, the traditional direction of death, god of death, Yama,
in Hindu pantheon.

For people, who like forms to do meditation, He is described as follows:

The Sages of Namisaranya forest came to him.  His body is cool and has the coolness of a marble, spotless white,
with white holy ashes.  His feet are like red corals and His four hands are like four lotuses.  His mouth too is like
a red lotus.  The upper right hand has got a rudraksha bead, strings of beads that came from His tears for the downtrodden.  His right eye represents sun and the left the moon.  The third eye represents the Fire,
fire of knowledge for people who understand him and the fire of destruction for the ignorant.  His lower right hand
shows the chinmudra the hand-pose.  The forefinger is the Jivatma and the thumb is the Paramatma.  When the
index finger stoops to the bottom of the thumb, leaving the remaining three fingers representing, ego, desire, and
karma, the Jivatma gets united with the Paramatma.

His left upper hand shows a pot of nectar, that liberates the Jivas.  The dark patch of poison on the throat shows
that one should not swallow the poison of death but retain to wait for the grace of Guru.  He is the guru sitting at a
stone like banyan tree, the stone structure reminding us that He is ageless, unlike trees that grow and wither.  He is ever
youthful, showing that the Self is every young, nitya, eternal, without old senility, disease and death.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1344 on: August 10, 2015, 07:33:34 AM »


Most of the seekers, like me for example, feel that our sadhana is inadequate.  Bhagavan Ramana when such
anxieties were expressed had said:  Do not worry.  Guru-krupa will take care of it, provided you surrender
completely.

Sri Sankara also says:  "My Guru has said to meditate 'I am Sivoham' but I am not able to attain Sivam.
However, I am totally believe in the words of my Guru and one day I shall attain Sivam".  This is exactly the
message from Bhagavan Ramana.

Conviction alone is necessary. 

Sri Sankara also says:  Atmanavindhate Jnanam, to strongly believe that I am Atman is the Jnanam.

Muruganar used to say:  "Standing at the banks of Ganga, will one dig a well for water?"  We are all like this.
We are all on the banks of Ramana-Ganga and our job is only to step into the waters and drink.  There is no
need to dig a well!

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1345 on: August 11, 2015, 07:32:23 AM »


Sri Dakshinamurty Stotram, Verse 10, is a Palasruti, the Benediction Verse. 

The all-pervasiveness of the Atma is clearly expounded in this hymn.  By its recital, hearing, and meditation on
its implied meaning, the devoted disciple attains to that all-pervasiveness of the Atman.  He further fully realizes
his oneness with It, including the unhindered lordship over the whole universe, becoming the very essence of the
eight fold manifestations referred to in Verse 9.  He reaches the plenitude of realization and spiritual joy.

This Verse speaks about all-pervasiveness of the Atman, which is attained by the devotee or a sadhak. Sarvatmavtam
says Sri Sankara.  What does it mean?  Does it mean, that you will become God or Brahman.  Yes.  You will
become Brahman or God but you will not become the ruler.  Here the ruler-ship is not indicated because, after
realizing Brahman, where is separate "you" to become a ruler and have many people to be ruled?
The ruler and the ruled implies dualism and it is not definitely indicated here.  We become one with Brahman
and whatever Brahman is, we are.  That is all.

Then, Sri Sankara says Isvaratvam and mahavibhuti sahitam. We become Isvara with all powers and riches.
Here again it is indicated here, that the mahavibhuti sahitam isvaratvam, is the power of siddhis and supernatural
powers.  But a Brahma Jnani will not care for them.  Bhagavan Ramana says that siddhis are again dreams.  Why do you want dreams, when you are constantly awake in Brahmanhood?  So these powers and riches would come if one wants,
but one will not want.

Why great Jnanis do not exhibit supernatural powers? We shall see.

Arunachala Siva.


Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1346 on: August 13, 2015, 09:22:26 AM »
Subramanian,
Are these posts Referring to Sri Bhagavan's teachings or a dissertation on his teachings?
Adi sankara had never said that formal learning is necessary.He is simply proceeding from the commonly accepted paradigm and is merely stating them in Vivekachudamani as can be seen the way the verses are structured:
1. I bow to Govinda, whose nature is Bliss Supreme, who is the Sadguru, who can be known only from the import of all Vedanta, and who is beyond the reach of speech and mind.
2. For all beings a human birth is difficult to obtain, more so is a male body; rarer than that is Brahmanahood; rarer still is the attachment to the path of Vedic religion; higher than this is erudition in the scriptures; discrimination between the Self and not-Self, Realisation, and continuing in a state of identity with Brahman ? these come next in order. (This kind of) Mukti (Liberation) is not to be attained except through the well earned merits of a hundred crore of births.
3. These are three things which are rare indeed and are due to the grace of God ? namely, a human birth, the longing for Liberation, and the protecting care of a perfected sage.
4. The man who, having by some means obtained a human birth, with a male body and mastery of the Vedas to boot, is foolish enough not to exert himself for self-liberation, verily commits suicide, for he kills himself by clinging to things unreal.
5. What greater fool is there than the man who having obtained a rare human body, and a masculine body too, neglects to achieve the real end of this life ?
6. Let people quote the Scriptures and sacrifice to the gods, let them perform rituals and worship the deities, but there is no Liberation without the realisation of one?s identity with the Atman, no, not even in the lifetime of a hundred Brahmas put together.
7. There is no hope of immortality by means of riches ? such indeed is the declaration of the Vedas. Hence it is clear that works cannot be the cause of Liberation.
8. Therefore the man of learning should strive his best for Liberation, having renounced his desire for pleasures from external objects, duly approaching a good and generous preceptor, and fixing his mind on the truth inculcated by him.

Nowhere he says that :
Quote
Again if you see Vivekachoodamani, Sri Sankara says that in order to attain liberation, one should be born as a
human being, and that too as a Brahmin, should be well learned and then do Atma Vichara.  But Bhagavan Ramana
says that it is enough if one is born as a human being.  He carefully omits brahmin and all that crap.

He says that it is the Grace of God that one has already been fortunate to be endowed with a human birth,Longing for liberation and the protecting care of a generous preceptor.
He also says that such a one is indeed foolish who having been born a man(and not a woman ,who had no opportunity to go and learn from a Guru through the Brahmacharya ashram) and having been given a ready opportunity still does not put it to good use.

We cannot pull apart these verses and twist it to suit our fancy.
Please note that Sri Bhagavan would not have translated Vivekachudamani and Atma Bodha if it had been otherwise.

In the name of eulogizing Sri Bhagavan,it is not proper to misquote another great one.

May I request you to post only Bhagavan's teachings(in his words) here and not what others interpreted as his teachings in this thread.It will avoid all unnecessary things here.

Namaskar

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1347 on: August 13, 2015, 12:07:49 PM »
Dear Ravi,

I have removed the post.  I shall after going through Vivekachoodamani once again, give a suitable reply / post.
If I remember correct, Sri Bhagavan had a copy of Vivekachoodamani of Sri Sankara, but since someone had taken it from Him, with His own memory of Sri Sankara's works and by reading Ulagahta Swamigal's Tamizh verses, He wrote His prose version.  And He spoke as per His reading.  I shall check up for the two books 
and clarify you the position.

Arunachala Siva.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2015, 07:36:15 AM by Subramanian.R »

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1348 on: August 17, 2015, 07:35:29 AM »



Sri Sankara uses the analogy of mirror and the reflection of a city, in his Sri Dakshinamurty Stotram.

Bhagavan Ramana has used the projector, light, film and cinema screen example.  He has also used the concept of light and five windows of a room, in His prose works.

Sri Sankara has also used the example of a light within a pot, having five small holes around, and five
different objects outside the pot, in his Probadha Suddhakaram prakaranam.

There is a light and a pot with five holes around its neck is held upside down over the light.  There are
five objects around the pot.  The first is a Veena, an Indian musical instrument, the second is a hand-fan,
the third is a open packet of Kasturi, an incense, the fourth is a Ruby stone and the fifth is an amla fruit.
The light from within the pot lights all the five objects equally and we see all the five objects clearly with the
help of the light within the pot. 

The pot is human body. The Veena represents, sound principle, Akasa and also the ears. The hand-fan represents wind, the Air, breath and also the skin. The Ruby is the sight, perception, the eyes.
The amla fruit is the taste, tongue. The incense Kasturi represents the smell, the nose. The Light within is Atman.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavan Ramana Teachings
« Reply #1349 on: August 20, 2015, 07:18:03 AM »

Lakshmana Sarma (WHO) has given ten verses in Sanskrit to explain the fifth verse of Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam.

91.  The god-lover (devotee) excels the yogi described before.  With his mind ever absorbed in God,
and (thus) being oblivious even of himself, he sees the world as God Himself out of the fullness of his
love for Him.

Once Jnandev was siting in his hut meditating on Pandaripura Panduranga.  Some miscreant came at
the gate and started shouting at him and abusing him.  Jnanadev did not reply. After some time, the miscreant left the place.  Muktabai,his sister asked Jnanadev:  Anna!  Are you not disturbed by
those abuses?  Even I became angry and was about to hit him back."  Jnanadev replied Muktabai:
"My dear sister! How can my mind which is already full with the bliss of Panduranga, how can it take
anything else, be it abuses or praises?"

92. For him that sees Me, in everything and everything in Me, I am never out of sight, nor is he out of
sight for Me."

This 92nd verse of Lakshmana Sarma is a reflection of Gita.

98.  Therefore, one should practice devotion to God, which is auspicious. One may practice devotion
to God in any manner, looking on Him as the Self, or as different from oneself.

99.  When by devotion, Love is born, separateness drops off soon, and Non-duality, which is alone
 Real remains over. Thus, the devotee reaches the Goal.

100.  By the saying that the God-Lover excels, it is meant that he is superior to the yogi (who has
been described before). Therefore, if one has no inclination to the path of self inquiry,
he should strive to win God through Love.

The commentary of Lakshmana Sarma ends with 8 verses in  Sanskrit, in praise of Sri Arunachala Pancharatnam.  I shall quote here only one verse, the Verse 107 of Vartikam.

107. The perfect surrender of oneself to God is possible by Vichara, self inquiry alone, since by
becoming the Food of God, he is no more separate from Him. (Verse 28 of Sri Arunachala
Akshramana Malai).

Arunachala Siva.