Author Topic: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's  (Read 20432 times)

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #30 on: October 05, 2012, 03:50:58 PM »
Sri Nagaraj,
     
Jnanam is not a "Goal". Atma Jnanam is what the shastras present through scriptural injections. One gets indirect knowledge about Self through scriptures. And then "Aparokshanubhuti explains how one gets established".

A person who takes Shadows to be ghosts needs to be told and explained that they are merely shadows and then he has to himself verify. Karma without the understanding that they are not ghots wont help.

A person who takes the 10th man is missing needs what ? Please refer to the 10th man story and why Shankara explains it.


What point are you trying to communicate Sri Tushmin, can you please elaborate, i am not able to grasp what you are trying to convey. Thank you.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4059
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2012, 03:54:34 PM »
Friends,
I will dig out kAnchi mahAswami's talk on the 'Karma' that sri sankara refers to.
MahAswAmi gives the example of nishkAmya karma -how like a rope tightening around a bundle of sticks,in bringing the sticks together loosens the other Rope that have held it ,and after that is removed,the tightened rope is loosened and the bundle of sticks fall apart.
Nishkamya karma means that it is jnAna ,Bhakti,Yoga and karma -all are different aspects of the same thing.

As Bhagavan says-udhitha idaThil odungi iruthal adhu kanmamum bhaktiyum undhee paRa
adhu yogam jnAnamum undhee paRa.

Abiding, having subsided in the place of rising [in one’s source, the real Self] – that is karma [desireless action] and bhakti [devotion], that is yoga [union with God] and jnana [true knowledge].

No point in unnecessarily using technical words that only cloud our basic understanding.They only give the impression that 'one knows'.T

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2012, 04:05:37 PM »
        Can you please read the Bhagavad Gita, chapter 2 Shankara Bhasyam ? We will discuss once you take a look into that in detailed.
if you want I can give you references for the same.
Harih om.

Tushmin, i can read Bhagavad Gita chapter 2, but chapter 2 alone is not enough.

you said: "Jnanam is not a "Goal". Atma Jnanam is what the shastras present through scriptural injections. One gets indirect knowledge about Self through scriptures. And then "Aparokshanubhuti explains how one gets established"."

Let it be, what makes you think that this indirect knowledge about self cannot be (acquired) through Karma or Bhakti?

You said: "A person who takes Shadows to be ghosts needs to be told and explained that they are merely shadows and then he has to himself verify. Karma without the understanding that they are not ghots wont help.

A person who takes the 10th man is missing needs what ? Please refer to the 10th man story and why Shankara explains it."


What makes you feel that this cannot be (acquired) through karma or bhakti?

The point i am refuting is, you say only Jnana can confer liberation, i do not think, any body is denying that, but, your reasoing that Jnana cannot be got through Karma and Bhakti is lacking on its credentials.

No matter what method you may follow, karma, Bhakti or vichara, all your efforts only extend thus far of doing your best, Sri Bhagavan says:

D.: Even so, I do not understand. 'I', you say, is the wrong 'I' now. How to eliminate this wrong 'I'?

You need not eliminate the wrong 'I'. How can 'I' eliminate itself? - All that you need do is to find out its origin and abide there. Your efforts can extend only thus far. Then the Beyond will take care of itself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach it.

The Jnana which you have been saying, cannot be (acquired) through karma or Bhakti, cannot be (acquired) through ones effort, this must be very clear, without the grace of that which is beyond, or intimate, no efforts can reach it. Not even Vichara.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47994
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #33 on: October 05, 2012, 04:11:26 PM »
Dear Nagaraj, Tushnim,

for understanding Jnana Marga, Viveka Choodmani is enough. Ch. 2 of BG is also helpful.

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #34 on: October 05, 2012, 04:12:39 PM »
       First plz go through the starting introduction of chapter 2
whether its enough or not we will take up later.
No hurry in coming to any conclusion and no harm in going through chapter 2 of gita with shankara bhasyam :) , isn't it sir?

Tushnim,

you suddenly ask me to read Chapter 2, Bhagavad Gita, I do not know for what I am supposed to read it. I see that you are trying to substantiate some point you are trying to make, so, the onus rests on you to bring forth those verses for which you are trying to substantiate.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #35 on: October 05, 2012, 04:27:35 PM »
Tushnim, that would be fine. I have with me Bhagavad Gita, but, on what basis i have to read, without any query, makes no sense for me, hence it would be good if you can bring to front, what Shankaracharya has go to say, and we can take from there.

With regard to Bhagavad Gita, in context to Shankara Bhashyam,

Chapters 1 - 6   constitute Karma Yoga
Chapters 7 - 12 constitute Bhakti Yoga
Chapters 13 - 18  constitute Jnana Yoga

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #36 on: October 05, 2012, 04:58:28 PM »
as said, i have it Sri Tushnim, we can go over it.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4059
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #37 on: October 05, 2012, 06:17:05 PM »
Tushnim(udai?)
"Please be sure to present the sanskrit verse if you have it"
Here is an English transliteration of Verse 10 of Upadesa sAram of Sri Bhagavan:

"Hrit sthale manaah svasthathaa kriya
Bhakthi yoga bhodaascha nishchitam"

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4059
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #38 on: October 05, 2012, 08:13:51 PM »
Tushnim,
Explanations are redundant.All this means is what sri bhagavan has already said in tamizh,for which I have given the translation.It means just that.To merge in the source is Karma,Bhakti,yoga and Jnana(Bhagavan uses these terms in Tamizh).
It means that when one offers the 'I' and 'mine'-to this source ,it is Bhakti Yoga.
When one acts without 'doership', without  the sense of 'I' and 'mine',it is karma yoga.(Even to 'Think' is to act)
When the root thought of 'I' is merged in the source and does not give room for thoughts,it is Yoga(Yogam is chitta vriddhi Nirodhah-Patanjali yoga sutra)
To know the Source by  Being the Self is jnAnam.
Self alone is.
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #39 on: October 06, 2012, 11:35:57 AM »
Dear Sri Tushnim,

We can go through this in great detail. But before we begin. I have a couple of small thoughts or question.

What is the purpose really? What are we going to gain, by this discussion? Shankaracharaya may have said somethings. At the end of the discussion, it may be seen that yes, Jnana alone is supreme, karma, bhakti are only prelude or it could also turn out to be that Jnana, Karma, Bhakti all are one and the same.

I mean, i fail to get interested in this discussion, there is nothing worthwhile to derive from this discussion. What do you recommend? Or do you see something that is very important? that needs to be looked in to carefully?

Again, as i expressed my thoughts in previous post, is this discussion going to benefit you in anyway? Are you looking for some clarification?

The purpose doesn't pull me into this discussion. Instead, i would instantly jump into any thing that fulfills my Selfish interest as expressed in my previous post.

Kindly let me know the purpose. Thank you.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

atmavichar100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2371
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #40 on: October 06, 2012, 12:09:24 PM »
Friends

I have shared my thoughts in the "Tolerance" thread started by Graham  in the Forum advice, news & etiquette sub forum many years back when he started this forum .
I feel we need to go back to the basics to avoid unpleasant feelings and focus on the real teachings of Bhagwan  Ramana which is what is this forum for .

Om Peace .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 47994
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #41 on: October 06, 2012, 03:32:37 PM »
Dear all,

When Sri Sankara as a young boy went to Narmada valley to meet his Guru, Govinda Bhagavadpada, and when the latter asked
him: Who are you? He answered in Verse titled Dasasloki. I consider this as one of the important slokas of Sri Sankara where he
almost give all the details that are found in Sri Bhagavan's Who am I?

Arunachala Siva.
 

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #42 on: October 08, 2012, 12:05:18 PM »
Dear Sri Tushnim,

All your point are valid, but, i fail to get the context to which this discussion is necessary. It is like, we are just picking some subject from air to just for a sake of discussion, however, if you are keen, kindly open a thread on this topic, and the moment some post intrigues me, i would naturally get pulled to some point of disussion, then.

The reason, Sri Tushmin, there are millions of scriptures, if we want to, we can pick any one of those books for discussion, but, my own requirement is much different from simply discussing Vivekachoodamani or Manisha Panchakam or simply discuss some work, just because it is Adi Shankaracharya's.

Or, let me present you a topic, see if it interests you, we could discuss about it. In such a context, perhaps, we can bring in Vivekachoodamani or other works in our discussion.

Is Jnana absolutely free of any Karma? As the scriptures reveal? Can Jnana exist without Karma. Well, I am clearly aware, what the Sages have told, and what the scriptures have conveyed, but, i want to discuss how realistic are they to our own context. This is something, that I am striving to grasp. Why are we always doing something to keep ourselves occupied. Why can't we Just Be. This is a subject, that i would be interested to discuss.

To begin with, the arguement that, we are naturally 'Just Being' doesn't inspire my reasoning. The very fact that, we are all here discussing raises a question, how Jnana is free of karma.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #43 on: October 08, 2012, 05:43:00 PM »
Dear Sri Tushnim,

I compiled my reasoning with many points, but, i do not feel, it is ready yet, unless, i myself discern in complete, or else, it would be mere speculation, so my heart hesitates to express my reasoning currently for this topic. So please excuse my response until, i don't know, when, for this topic alone. So, kindly do not wait for my response. Thank you for your points.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4059
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #44 on: October 09, 2012, 08:29:28 AM »
Friends,
Please use this thread for discussions on the posts on the quotes of Sri Sanakaracharya only.I find our friend atmavichAr is posting the quotes in Green and Red colour.This would mean that all other posts figuring there,except the couple of ones by Nagaraj belong here.
1.Request one and all to stick to this discipline.
2.Please do not use this thread for other exchanges.You may if you prefer use the Rough-notebook thread for that purpose.I have called it a 'Rough Note Book' because as a child when it sees the older students writing in their notebooks will also like to do likewise!It will attempt to write in the fair copies;the elders will then give it a Rough note book and a pencil that it will happily busy itself and scribble to its heart's content.
3.I suggest that the posts not belonging to the 'Quotes of Sri Sankaracharya' be deleted after you copy it elsewhere as you deem fit.
Thanks very much.
Namaskar.