Author Topic: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's  (Read 21170 times)

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2012, 09:57:13 PM »
And Sri Jewel,

No, i have not said anything that is my own opinion. I have substantiated every post of mine with the words of Sages and Vedas as well.

Only you have to provide your substantiation, with regards to your expression that Dharma is not necessary for Liberation. I am sure No Sage would advocate such an attitude. I would like to conclude my views from this discussion with this.

with prayers,

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Jewell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6527
  • Love,always love and only love
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2012, 10:01:02 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj, You dont need to apologize. I agree about Your last post,about truth,and how to be told. But,i dont see any difference in my writing and Yours.  Make-up truth in that way i can see it is nothing less upseting then direct truth. And,anyway,You also said it openly,that much how i did. I didnt have that intention,to upset You,and i also chose words how to say anything,coz it is very hard to convey in this writing manner. Those are differences only in what is upseting for me,and what is for You. I AM TRULY SORRY IF I OFFENDED YOU! I APOLOGYZE! That was not my intention! I agree on Your views about life,and think they are wonderful! Nothing is ment personaly,only,how i see it,we both deffend our views. If tourned to be otherwise,please forgive me.

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2012, 10:12:10 PM »
Sri Jewel,

I think it would do both of us good, by bringing Bhagavan before us. I do not really enjoy this writing medium, as it always fails to convey the intention behind the words that are used to communicate and generally is miss communicated. Lets surrender both our views at the Holy feet of Bhagavan, and leave it to him to teach us what ever is the truth.



॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Jewell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6527
  • Love,always love and only love
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2012, 10:28:05 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj, You are right. It is indeed hard to say like this everything i want,and in the way i want. What can i say,this picture said everything... I am truly sorry if i offendend You,or gave any bad feeling! With prayers and love..

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2012, 10:40:36 PM »
Dear Sri Jewel,

Yes i wanted to communicate my view, that i feel is the truth, but certainly i do not want to communicate it at the cost of hurting you. You see, these exchanges have taken a different turn. It is the recognition of that which is much superior that is mutual Love and Compassion and it supersedes everything. I certainly do not want to express the my truth by compromising this fundamental root that is mutual love and compassion which is the purpose of all Dharmas. That truth is not truth that brings disharmony. To me, this recognition, this discernment is the essence of Dharma. The purpose of Dharma is to only generate universal love and universal compassion. I discern, this ought never to be forgotten at any cost.

Dear Jewel :)

with prayers and love,

« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 10:45:35 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Jewell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6527
  • Love,always love and only love
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2012, 10:58:43 PM »
:) Dear Sri Nagaraj, I truly feel the same. Many times,i see something,react to quickly,and after 10 min i feel sorry for said that in the first place. Not that i have bad intention in the first place,but sometimes is better not to say anything. Love and Compassion dont have a price,and nothing is more important then that! With love and prayers...:)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 11:10:25 PM by Jewell »

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2012, 11:11:39 PM »
:) Dear Sri Nagaraj, I truly feel the same. Many times,i see something,react to quickly,and after 10 min i feel sorry for said that in the first place. Not that i have bad intention in the first place,but sometimes is better not to say anything. Love and Compassion dont have a price,and nothing is more important then that! With love and prayers...

Very True Dear Jewel, it is for the same very reason, i quit the forum more than twice, that it is always better to not say anything at all but God has different plans, he somehow bought me back, again and again, and i don't know for what, and makes me say so many things!! Gods must be crazy :D but am here today, like a puppet!

Jewel, you know, it feels wonderful to let go, and with it, springs forth peace, freedom from the grip of mind. Am true grateful to the Lord, for this moment.

The grace of Guru is immeasurable, his compassion cannot be grasped. May He Bless everybody!

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Jewell

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6527
  • Love,always love and only love
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2012, 11:40:06 PM »
:) Dear Nagaraj, It is good that You are here,i am sure God have His reasons. You wrote so many wonderful things,and we can all only learn and enjoy. And disagree now and then.. Just joking.:) I am truly happy for You! Enjoy in Grace and Love,when You have it in abundance! :)  It is indeed All Grace,we are nothing without it...

deepa

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 132
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2012, 02:12:21 AM »

Nagaraj-ji and Tushnim-ji
While discussing service and the intention behing the service, I am reminded of a incident where a lady who was a singer came to Bhagawan and said "Haven't Tyagaraja and Annamacharya sang and attained moksha? If so, can I also not achieve the same through my music?".
Bhagawan thought and replied "They did not sing and attain moksha.. instead, they attained moksha and then sang".

Similarly, I think there are 3 types of service-oriented people
1. Service by realized/almost-realized people who see expression of the same reality around them and are filled with compassion (like Ramalinga Adigalar - எல்லோரும் இன்புற்றிருக்க நினைப்பதுவே அன்றி வேறொன்றும் அறியேன் பராபரமே)
2. Service by those who are intellectually/emotionally touched by problems in society and want to do what they can (good intentions, inspired by Swami Vivekananda, etc but not completely without ego - which I would guess applies to most of us)
3. Service by those who give for name/fame (though this seems bad, as said before, it is a great first step and in the process, they may develop more compassion and slowly shed their ego)

There is no need to devalue any of these types. Depending upon where we are, this will definitely help elevate us.

My acharya gave the example of a train. We may claim that we are pursuing gnana yoga, but he said our engine may be gnana yoga, but bhakthi and karma will follow automatically like the carriages even if we don't intentionally pursue them. Similarly, for people trying to follow different paths.

This would explain why Bhagawan also showed intense bhakthi (as in the vibhuti incident) and intense compassion (for animals, people in grief, etc). Without these, vedanta would be called "வறட்டு வேதாந்தம்" (dry theory)
Pranam,
Deepa







Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4061
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2012, 07:51:14 AM »
Jewel/Friends,
"But i believe that Ramana did exactly that,siting alone,and attain liberation. Not that i compare with Bhagavan,i couldnt even if i want,but that is the fact. He didnt do anything"
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Tendencies from previous births
TUTOR: "Revered sir, one man quickly succeeds in spiritual life, and another doesn't
succeed at all. How do you explain that
?"
MASTER: "The truth is that a man succeeds to a great extent because of tendencies
inherited from his previous births. People think he has attained the goal all of a sudden. A
man drank a glass of wine in the morning. It made him completely drunk. He began to
behave improperly. People were amazed to see that he could be so drunk after one glass.
But another man said, 'Why, he has been drinking all night
.'

Dharma is the very foundation for spiritual growth and Realization.There is simply no exception to this,whether we believe it or not,whether we accept it or not.The Entire sermon on the Mount is the Teaching of Dharma only.
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2012, 02:40:05 PM »
Sri Tushnim,

Why do you differentiate Jnana with Karma and Bhakti? Are they different?

Otherday, some where you said there is no difference between Jnana and Bhakti, today you say, only it is only Jnana that liberates. You are not being consistent in your views.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4061
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2012, 02:46:32 PM »
Friends,
"But its only Jnana that liberates"
We neither know what jnAna is nor what Liberation is.We are cocksure of 'only'! :)
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2012, 03:09:56 PM »
Sri Tushnim,

      There are two lifestyles:
1) Nivritti where no karmas are done.
2) Pravritti where the student involves in karma .

What has Nivritti or Pravritti got to do with Karma? i do not get your reasoning.

do you know bhagavan's attitude towards World wars etc ?

I do not know, can you please share with me? what his attitude towards world wars?

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4061
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #28 on: October 05, 2012, 03:12:14 PM »
Tushnim(udai?)/Nagaraj,
"do you know bhagavan's attitude towards World wars etc "
Got this jnAnA that Bhagavan has an 'attitude'!
Or is it bhakti? :)
Namaskar

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #29 on: October 05, 2012, 03:42:29 PM »
Sri Tushnim,

Jnanam what you say is the goal. it can be reached through any of the methods, be it Karma, Bhakti, Jnana (vichara) yoga. I preseume you are getting confused with Sadhana (method) and Lakshyartham that is the Goal.

I present below, from Talks 580:

D.: Is a Jnani different from a yogi? What is the difference?
M.: Srimad Bhagavad Gita says that a Jnani is the true yogi and also a true bhakta [?]. Yoga is only a sadhana [?] and jnana is the siddhi.

D.: Is yoga necessary?
M.: It is a sadhana. It will not be necessary after jnana is attained.

All the sadhanas are called yogas, e.g., Karma yoga; Bhakti yoga;

Jnana yoga; Ashtanga yoga. What is yoga? Yoga means `union'. Yoga is possible only when there is `viyoga' (separation). The person is now under the delusion of viyoga. This delusion must be removed. The method of removing it is called yoga.

D.: Which method is the best?
M.: It depends upon the temperament of the individual. Every person is born with the samskaras of past lives. One of the methods will be found easy for one person and another method for another. There is no definiteness about it.



One may engage in any of the methods to suit ones temperament in order to achieve the Lakshyartha, goal.



I see that subsequently you have responded. I see that this response holds good for even that as well. Sadhana and Lakshyartha ought to be discerned well.

One who does karma without doership, is Karma yogi, some time back we discussed Nishkamya Karma, Offering the fruits of karma to Lord, the other is Prapatti, Bhakti, Sharanagati, the other is Vichara marga, With all these methods one can reach the Lakshyartham that is the Goal. These are my reasoning.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta