Author Topic: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's  (Read 14567 times)

atmavichar100

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Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« on: September 29, 2012, 11:46:53 AM »
Dear Friends

I opening a new thread that is maintained exclusively for discussion of quotes related to Shankarachara's right from Adi Shankaracharya till the present ones .

I had already opened another thread on the same where I have requested only the quotes to be posted for meditative reading and not for discussion .I thank Sri Ravi for giving me this suggestion .
Since doubts will definitely arise ,I have opened a separate thread for discussing the quotes related to the Shankaracharya's .

Now the reason why I chose Shankaracharaya's was that they are the formal un-broken lineage of Advaita and Sanathana Dharma as established by Sri Adi Shankara more than 1000 years back .
Though outwardly they may seem to stress the ritualistic way of life but their ultimate goal is only Atma Gnana which Bhagwan  Ramana took it up directly .
So in the end Adi Shankara and Bhagwan Ramana both meet and in fact Bhagwan Ramana has himself translated many works of Adi Shankara in to Tamil .
I am neither an authority on Adi Shankara's teachings and commentaries nor on Bhagwan Ramana's teachings and works and hence I will not be contributing much in these discussions and I leave it to other seniors here to clear the doubts of any quotes posted here .
Om Peace .
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 12:33:30 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2012, 11:55:45 AM »
The following are the quotes that have been shared in the other thread .Members may now feel free to discuss the same . Now .

1)An arrow set on the bow string, and ready to be discharged may well be withheld. Similarly, past actions (sanchita karma) that are ready to produce reactions, are rendered barren by the power of Atma Jnana of a Jnani. Hence when the body of the knower of Truth falls, there shall be no further births.- Sri Sri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamigal


2)kuru the ganga sagara gamanam
vrata paripalanam atava daanam
jnana viheena sarva mateena
bhajti na muktim janma shatena

whehter one goes to ganga or performs rituals or does charity
the one without Self Knowledge does not gain Liberation
even in a 100 births, no matter which religious system he follows.

Bhaja Govindam, Bhaja Govindam Govindam Bhaja Muda Mathe
Samprapthe sannihite kale
nahi nahi rakshati dukrun karane.

Revel in Govinda, Revel in Govinda oh Foolish Mind
When the time of death draws near
the modifications of "kr" dhatu as per grammar rules cannot help.

[Kr dhatu in grammar rules corresponds to the kartrutvam or doership... karma cannot help thats what it means]

----> Sri Adi Shankaracharya Bhaja Govindam.


3)
My favorite from Sankara in Brahma Jnanavalee mala

Quote

    Ghatkutyaadikam sarvam mrittika maatram eva
    Tadvad brahma jagat sarvam ithi Vedanta dindima


Pot, wall are all Mud alone (meaning they are names and forms of Mud alone and names and forms never exist separate from the reality). Similarly the world is Brahman alone – this is what Vedanta is telling at the top of its voice.

Quote

    Brahma Satyam Jagan mithya jeevo brahmaiva na parah
    Anena vedhyam sat shaastram ithi Vedanta dindima


Brahman is the ultimate reality, world is an illusion seen in Brahman. The individualistic jeeva or Self (who finds himself as part of the whole world) is Brahman alone & not different from Brahman. By knowing this, the eternal reality of Truth or Existence according to the scriptures is known – so says the Vedanta.



4)"Guru" does not mean a person, or a mortal being but denotes a principle, an activating principle, a subliming force that is ever present, ever conscious, ever luminous, ever protecting and much above anybody's conception. - Sri Sri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamigal.


5)When a devotee, though not qualified to attain Atmajnana directly, completely surrenders to the Lord, the Lord takes care of him and bestows him with Atmajnana. There is no doubt about this. - Sri Sri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamigal.


6)true bhakti is abidance in Self --> Vivekachudamani , Shankaracharya.


7)When man begins to realise the presence of the same Atman in all living beings, malice towards people and other beings starts disappearing. Compassion dawns. - Sri Sri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamiga
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

deepa

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Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2012, 05:59:50 AM »

Thanks, atmavichar. This will be a valuable thread to reflect upon. Maybe members can share their favorite quotes.

Just a related question for now -
4)"Guru" does not mean a person, or a mortal being but denotes a principle, an activating principle, a subliming force that is ever present, ever conscious, ever luminous, ever protecting and much above anybody's conception. - Sri Sri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamigal.


The quote above reminds me of Nochur-ji's dhayana shloka
Yasyantarnadimadhyam Na Hi Karacharanam Namagotram Na Sutram
No Jatirnaiva Varnam Na Bhavati Purusho No Napumsam Na Cha Stri,
Nakaram No Vikaram Na Hi Janimaranam Nasti Punyam Na Papam
No Tattvam Tatvamekam Sahajasamarasam Sad Gurum Tam Namami.

Any idea where this shloka comes from? Is this Adi Shankara's?


atmavichar100

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Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2012, 12:42:07 PM »
Mr.Nagaraj has posted about Dharma in the other thread of Quotes of Sri Shankaracharya and I felt it is worth discussing it here as there is lot of confusion with regard to what is Dharma in day to day life . While there is no conflict with regard to "samanya dharma" i.e Universal Dharma i.e Ahimsa , Satya , Asteya etc there is lot of confusion with regard to"Vishesha Dharma" i.e Dharma  with regard to one's caste ,culture, tradition  etc  especially in the Modern Urban life style where most of our energy goes out in day to day work , frequent traveling to other places due to work compulsions , getting posted outside ones native place either in India or Abroad that disturbs our regular practices etc . Plus people are confused whether these are still relevant these days but at the same time are unable to give it up fearing that some wrong things will happen . Also I know of many people in Corporate High level decision making who feel they are part of some Adharmic practices of the Organization even without their own intent and confused what to do . Should their loyalty be to their Organization or to their own Original Dharma ?
How do we resolve these ? Members share their inputs .

Quote
Dharmo Rakshathi Rakshithaha

"If we protect Dharma, Dharma will protect us"

Protection of Dharma does not mean mere adoration of Dharma. It is the effort of putting the principles of Dharma into practice. Every one of us desires supreme happiness not only in this birth but also in subsequent births or Janmas. No one will wish to have sufferings or sorrow in any birth.

"Dharma grants happiness and peace. Adharma makes life miserable with agony and sorrow," says our Sastra.

What is the true meaning or significance of Dharma?

Dharma means: Helping the poor and the needy. Dharma means: Worshipping and obeying God. Dharma means: To be in the company of persons endowed with purity and virtues. Dharma means: Listening and understanding matters that reflect divine values and virtues. Dharma teaches us to avoid avarice and to eschew the desire to possess others' wealth. Dharma is Ahimsa. It is merciful nature not to harm anyone through word, deed or mind at any time. Humanity should imbibe and always remember this virtue: Just like me, others too feel joy and sorrow. If someone abuses or hurts me, it pains. It is in the same way the other person will also suffer, if I abuse him. Therefore what I do not wish to happen to me, should not happen to others also.

These values and virtues are universal.

"Athmanah prathikoolani pareshaam na samaachareth"


are the words of guidance from Sastras on these virtues.

"Don't do to others what is harmful to you" is the meaning of the above verse.

Violence is a great sin. Non-violence is the path of Dharma. If we wish to live in peace, happiness and harmony, we should live with love and faith.

Peace will not be there, where lust and anger dwells. Only when we drop our lust and anger, we would be able to live with true happiness and in peace.

We are all entering into a New Century and into a Millennium. The priority of our life should be to practice Dharma.

For ages, our sacred country India, has been in the task of teaching and preaching the message of peace or shanti to the world.

We should continue the task, with more commitment in the New Century spreading the message of Love, Peace and Harmony throughout the world.

We require God's grace in all our thoughts and deeds. Therefore we must pray to God with devotion, whenever we start any new activity.

Our Ego and selfishness should be totally dropped, as Ego is the root cause of our evil deeds. Hence everyone should function totally devoid of Ego or "Ahankara".

All the wisdom, capabilities and power that we possess are mercifully granted to us by God. Let us take an Oath "to use all our wisdom, capabilities and power in the service of God and in the service of humanity"

I bless one and all to follow Dharma and to prosper in life and to live with peace, progress, prosperity and happiness.

(Bharati Theertha Swamigal)


« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 12:47:24 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Nagaraj

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Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2012, 01:45:20 PM »
Dear Sri Atmavichar100,

You have done well to bring in to picture this subject, to discuss the doubts that are existing, about Dharma. yes it is important to discuss this in detailed. To begin with, i'd like to share my thoughts:

The questions about efficacy of Dharma only springs from ignorance, out of unknown belief from deep within, that, we are evolved now, and we have come to know, the Dharma Sukshma, the Subtlities of Dharmas and its true purport, so, these things do not anymore form a part of duties of somebody who is advanced in his Sadhana.

We are all no Sage like Ramana Maharshi, we should remember who we are first and foremost, i believe, our small minuscule insights of truths do not make us some Sage, no matter how wise we may be. I believe, we should be aware where we are. Our wisdom will last only one day, without food and water.

The Sage who said, doing Dharma with ego is no use, never said, not to do any Dharma and that its no use doing any Dharma.

Infact, it was Ramana Maharshi himself, who said, feed the people who come to Ashram, and when some skeptic questioned him the need, when already they were in ration, instead, they could contribute to building Hospitals and so on, the Sage said, if we feed one holy person, who may come in some form, all these big hospitals may come by themselves, automatically.

To say, doing Dharma with ego is no use, and therefore keeping away completely from doing any Dharma is as good as deciding, that I do not want to remove my ego, i am sure, if i do Dharma, i will be doing with ego.

There is a saying in Sanskrit, which was commonly used in houses, in those days, Dravyamoolani Paapaani, which means, All sins get expended and gained through money.

Sri Satya Sai Baba once said, Blooddum (blood) Duddum(money) should always be in circulation, meaning, the money and Blood should always be in circulation. otherwise, it will result in heart attack and soul attack. it will result in stagnation.

We talk so much in skepticism about Dharma. But we ourselves are are so keen in making a good living, many of us have been and still are in Foreign countries earning sufficient money, earning in dollors euros and pounds increasing bank balances. Investing in stocks, mutual funds, properties, and so on. It may be for various reasons, compulsions and so on. But it is not wisdom to bring to this platform today that are having to discuss about Dharma, it is unfortunate actually, it reflects the state of our Society. these are my thoughts.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2012, 03:29:23 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Yes. Sri Bhagavan said: Reform yourself first. Then other reforms can be done more effectively.

Arunachala Siva.

Ravi.N

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Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2012, 03:59:45 PM »
Nagaraj,
"To say, doing Dharma with ego is no use, and therefore keeping away completely from doing any Dharma is as good as deciding, that I do not want to remove my ego, i am sure, if i do Dharma, i will be doing with ego"
This is something that I frequently encounter.The arguement put forth is that by just 'Self-Enquiry',everything necessary will automatically come.Little do seekers realize that 'self-Enquiry' or any other spiritual path can be traversed only on the Firm foundation of Dharma.
This is like modern day singers saying-'No need to learn the Notes Sa,Ri,Ga,Ma,...Sa and practise the scales or shruti Shuddhi.Just keep singing and all the errors will get corrected.The Question is -How are they sure that 'self-enquiry' or any other sadhana is done properly?
The amusing thing is that in a sort of arm chair travellogue ,the world is confirmed as a 'Dream'-I mean 'the rest of the world' other than our Home,Our Car,Our Kith and Kin and Our Bank Balance,our Job :)

Friend,I am very happy to see that you are doing an excellent contribution here in highlighting all the essential and fundamental aspects of Sadhana.
Thanks very much.
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2012, 04:21:35 PM »
Sri Ravi, Thank you, for your kind words, they are blessing indeed, i receive your appreciation with great precaution (not to be deluded :) ), and express my gratitude to the Lord who is the Real Doer. When he is in the pillion, there is nothing to fear about. And i am confident, that through somebody, God will keep my conscience alive, when ever i getting engulfed in maya. I pray He reprimand me then and there and set me right and not drag me on in delusion.

You are very right and the same voice echoes within me as well. Infact, many, and i would say even myself in past, was under delusion, as well! Infact, we all only fall under those Neo-Advaitic School, here. Even though we profess to be sincere devotees of Bhagavan and practicing Self Enquiry. One cannot escape from building a foundation, roots. We ought to remember that Sri Bhagavan was born with loads and loads of Sadhana in his past life.

Infact, i feel, even with ego, one should go ahead and do Dharma, i feel it is still great deed, even if somebody does great deeds with huge ego, what matters, if at the cost of somebody's ego, some poor souls stomach or some needs are fulfilled, there can be no better Deed the egoistic person can aspire to do. some great soul, to whom, the help is offered may bring about a providential change may occur, and the egoistic person may become, a Tiruvalluvar or a Purandara Dasa. Who knows? Like a balloon, such a person who is doing great Dharmic activities, may expand, expand and expand and burst forth suddenly, some time into nothing!

I remembered this story, posted in past, with regard to the discussion in this thread, as told by Sri Ramakrishnar:

one thief goes to village with all bad intentions and when he tries to run away with gold, and, realises the futility of his running, he got an intelligent solution, he had long hair, he matted and tied them like a Sadhu, and he buried the jewelry and kept a towel upon it and sat below a tree as a sadhu, closing his eyes as though in deep meditation, with full of fear from within. Soon the chasing villagers came near him, obviously could not recognise him, asked him if he saw a thief running, to which he calmly responded saying, he was in deep meditation and could not take note of anything around him.

Slowly, the innocent villagers began to show immense respect towards this imposter and began to give him all food, fruits and jewelry out of sheer love towards a 'Guru' the imposter, now was full of joy as he contemplated that he was now earning much more than ever before and what a bonus, he felt, he was also getting all sorts of exotic food as well.

Many days passed like this, one fine day, the thief wondered, and felt very deeply, how much love the innocent villagers have been showing on to him, even though he was just an imposter, and thought, how much more love he could expect, if he were really a sadhu? discerning thus, the thief, became truly a great Sadhu.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2012, 05:33:51 PM »
Nagaraj,
I completely agree with you.Why should one whose principal Sadhana is self-Enquiry be afraid of a magnified ego on account of Service?If that be so,it should only facilitate self-enquiry into a more tangible ego!
There is a Huge difference between being guided by a Guru and being guided by a Book.I read this story in David's Blog,a very amusing one!Here It is(An excerpt from 'Living with The Himalayan Master' by Swami Rama):
Once I was teaching the Brahma Sutras. It is one of the most abstruse books in Vedantic literature.
Aphorisms which I myself did not really understand I explained to my students, and they seemed satisfied.
But I was not. So in the evening I would go to a swami who had not actually studied scriptures. He couldn’t
even sign his name—yet his knowledge was unmatched. He said, “You will never understand these terse
aphorisms if you do not have direct experience.” Then he told me this story to help me understand the
difference between direct and indirect knowledge.
A master had a student who had never seen a cow nor tasted milk. But he knew that milk was nutritious.
So he wanted to find a cow, milk it, and drink the milk. He went to his master and asked him, “Do you
know anything about cows?”
The master answered, “Of course.” The student requested, “Please describe a cow to me.” So the master
described a cow: “A cow has four legs. It is a tame, docile animal, not found in the forest but in villages. Its
milk is white and is very good for your health.” He described the type of tail and ears it has, everything
After this description the student went in search of a cow. On the way he came across a statue of a cow.
He looked and thought, “This is surely what my master described to me.” By chance that day some people
who lived nearby were whitewashing their house and there was a bucket of whitewash near the statue. The
student saw it and concluded, “This must be that milk which they say is so good for you to drink.” He
gulped down some of the whitewash, became terribly ill, and had to be taken to a hospital.
After he recovered he went back to his master and angrily charged, “You are no teacher!” His master
asked, “What’s the matter?” The student replied, “Your description of a cow was not at all accurate.”
“What happened?” He explained, and the master asked, “Did you milk the cow yourself?” “No.” “That
is why you suffered.”
The cause of suffering among intellectuals today is not because they don’t really know. They know a
little. But what they know is not their own knowledge, and that is why they suffer. A little or partial
knowledge is always dangerous, like partial truths. A partial truth is not truth at all. So is the case with
partial knowledge. The wise directly perceive truth.
The sage who did not even know the alphabet of any language would always remove my doubt.
Systematic study under a self-realized and competent teacher helps in purifying the ego; otherwise scriptural
knowledge makes one egotistical. He who is called an intellectual man today only collects facts from
various books and scriptures. Does he really know what he is doing? Feeding intellect with such a
knowledge is like eating a food with no food-value. One who constantly eats such a food remains sick and
also makes others sick. We meet many teachers and they all teach well, but a student can assimilate only
that which is unalloyed and comes directly from self-experienced teachers.

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2012, 06:37:04 PM »
through Service one cannot find Liberation though Self inquiry one finds liberation from bondage. But through Service one can really feel the love and oneness which is very close to God :)

Sri Tushnim,

How do you know and how are you able to say, that, through service one cannot find liberation?

just yesterday or the day before, this story was shared, about Sri Ramanatha Brahmachari, he attained liberation through Selfless Service alone and most of the Nayanmars life is a testimony to attaining liberation through Selfless Service, his only activity was to serve Mother Azhagammal and follow the commands of Sri Bhagavan:

Bhagavan once said, ―I am afraid only of two people—one is Ramanatha Brahmachari and the other is Mudaliar Paati. He said this because these two people were ascetics who served Bhagavan with utterly selfless devotion.

Ramanatha Brahmachari was a student studying the Vedas in the Vedapatashala (school of the Vedas) in town. He met Bhagavan one day and his whole being was brought into silence. His Mind and Heart opened up to Bhagavan, so he decided to be with him for as long as possible. Though the Pataskala provided free food and lodging to its students, young Ramanatha preferred to stay with Bhagavan. He begged for food on the streets and took that food to Bhagavan in Virupaksha cave. Whatever Bhagavan shared with him, he ate willingly. Such was the beauty and surrender of this ascetic.

He served Bhagavan‘s Mother because he was a Brahmin boy, and Bhagavan‘s Mother was still following her orthodox ways. Ramanatha would help wash her vessels as well as her clothes, and she would shout his name, ―Ramanatha, Ramanatha, for every errand. Hearing her, Bhagavan would humorously remark, ―The japa of my Mother has started again!

One day, Bhagavan told Ramanatha that he had succeeded in realizing the Self. Ramanatha could not believe it. He wanted confirmation from Bhagavan again and again. Bhagavan reassured him many times, ―Yes Ramanatha, you have realized the Self! But Ramanatha was still incredulous. Bhagavan got up and rapped him on his head with his knuckles and repeated, ―Yes Ramanatha, you are realized. This simple devotee went into ecstasy and ran out of the room, telling everyone he met, ―This is the place where Bhagavan knuckled me! He did not care that he had attained self-realization. Bhagavan‘s knuckling him was greater than self-realization for him!

This innocent disciple was serving other devotees, too. When a man arrived at the Ashram with a calf, which Bhagavan named Lakshmi, there was nobody to look after her. With panthers and tigers lurking around, Bhagavan said, ―There is nobody to look after Lakshmi; else she could have been kept here. Then Ramanatha, who was only four-and-a-half feet in height, said, ―Bhagavan, I will look after Lakshmi. This was the beginning of the Ramanashram goshala.

All the visiting devotees would come in late at night, as the train arrived at eight-thirty. In Ramanashram, after dinner at seven, most everyone would go to sleep by seven-thirty. Bhagavan wanted the visitors to be attended to. Nobody offered to look after them. Ramanatha said, ―Bhagavan, I will look after them. Every night he would stay awake attending to the visitors. The next day, Bhagavan would beam him a big smile and affectionately say, Oh, so you looked.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2012, 07:10:55 PM »
Sri Tushnim,

Can you please elaborate what "Karma" you are referring to?

and that is a nice verse of Bhaja Govindam, its essence is very nice -

One goes on pilgrimage to the place where the Ganga joins the sea; or observe the religious vows with care; or offers gifts. But if he be devoid of knowledge, he does not gain release-according to all schools of thought-even in a hundred lives.

How can one say, one does a karma without any knowledge, blindly? When one does a karma with an intention to alleviate somebody's suffering, how can it be said that such a karma is done devoid of knowledge? In such a case, is not Self Enquiry a Karma as well? How are you confident that it will confer you liberation? How can one be sure that Self enquiry is not devoid of knowledge?

Sri Krishna says in Gita, Chapter 5, 4

सांख्ययोगौ पृथग् बालाः प्रवदन्ति न पण्डिताः ।
एकमप्यासिथ्तः सम्यगुभयोर्विन्दते फलम् ॥ ५, ४ ॥


Only the ignorant speak of karma-yoga and devotional service as being different from the analytical study. Those who are actually learned say that he who applies himself well to one of these paths achieves the results of both.

While it is true, one will find verses from Shankaracharya's works and Gita and many other scriptures that say plainly that one cannot attain liberation with karma or Bhakti and so on. And the most famous one everybody would use, which i thought you may bring to your defence of arguement the Na Karmana Na Prajaya Dhanena Thyagenaike Amritatvama Anashuh.

But, when you do bring these quotations for representing your arguement, you have to bring the whole work of Shankaracharaya or other scriptures you are using for your reference. The background, what Shankaracharya really means? Does he really mean what I presume? Does my reasoning really matches with what Shankaracharya has conveyed? Could it be possible that i may be mis interpreting his original essence? One has to be very careful in using references. Without proper wholesome study, it would end up spreading mis information and mis guiding people and it also is a easy way to incur sin. So we have to be very careful. This is my reasoning.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Jewell

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Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2012, 08:18:04 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj,friends,

I think that nobody here said that Dharma is of no use,and is no good. No one said something like that! It is only told that that is not necesary for liberation. That is one fact only! There is a big difference. And that too,cannot be taken just like that.Dharma also doasnt mean one will necessary do some social service. It depends on individual,his life,and many circumstances.
Liberation is main goal,because,only then one can know what is truly good and needed,to see things and life the way they really are. If,on other hand,someone think that social service is most important thing,then he should follow that. That is his truth. But,again,Dharma and social service are two different facts for me. We cannot make some man,who have very hard life,with loads of problems to do social service. Every situation is very unique. And there is no question of doing with ego,or not,coz for someone his one mental health is most important. And not anyone can bare that kind of pressure. There is that difference. Social service is good,but that doasnt mean it should,necessary,be ocupation for someone.
Humanity is main goal,but true humanity is coming only when one is able to disscriminate. But,again,i am talking about Dharma like one fact,and about that is not necessary for Liberation,like another. So there is no war with Dharma.

Nagaraj

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Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2012, 08:53:48 PM »
Sri Jewel,

The problem is arising because you are differentiating between Service and Sadhana used for attaining Liberation. It seems that, Social Service, does not lead you to Liberation, and it is contrary to the goal of attaining Liberation. Unless this difference ceases, how can one progress towards liberation?

At the same, none of the posts really forced any body any social service. You can read once again. Please forgive me, but it seems you are imposing these views inadvertently on yourself. Dharma, by itself is naturally understood that one does so, as much as ones ability, you do not go to a person who is already in debt to give money as donation for some Dharma. These points are self understood. Dharma is not necessarily giving money or objects, even talking kind words to the needy is Dharma.

But, Sri Jewel, you say, These are not necessary for liberation? How are you able to say so? Are we evolved enough to decide for ourselves that these are not necessary, let me sit alone and attain liberation? No we are all mere children, we ought to follow the instructions laid down in the scriptures of world religions as much as possible to our abilities.

As said repeatedly, nobody is forcing this to anybody, if somebody is not interested, they may remain quiet, instead of passing comments such as this is not necessary for liberation. Infact, this only reflects highest Selfishness towards ones own Liberation!

One day in the sacred Rishi tradition Bhagvadpada Sri Adi Sankaracharya went to one old woman's house for alms (biksha).

She was so poor, she was not having a proper dress and anything worth the name to give as biksha. So with the entrance door of her house slightly ajar, she reached out swamiji with her hand stretched and dropped one amlaka fruit (which was the only thing available in her house) into the hands of Sri Sankaracharya, which was the only thing left in her house for themselves. The spirit is sacrifice of ego.

Sri Sankaracharya was deeply touched at the plight and haplessness of the woman - He recited twenty two slokas in praise of Goddess Lakshmi, known as Kanakadhara Stotram.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2012, 08:56:52 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Jewell

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Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2012, 09:29:05 PM »
"But, Sri Jewel, you say, These are not necessary for liberation? How are you able to say so? Are we evolved enough to decide for ourselves that these are not necessary, let me sit alone and attain liberation? No we are all mere children, we ought to follow the instructions laid down in the scriptures of world religions as much as possible to our abilities.

As said repeatedly, nobody is forcing this to anybody, if somebody is not interested, they may remain quiet, instead of passing comments such as this is not necessary for liberation. Infact, this only reflects highest Selfishness towards ones own Liberation!"

Dear Sri Nagaraj,

I agree that we are not evolved enough,but i think that goes is both directions. No one can say it is ultimate truth,and no one even said that. Not You,dear Sri Nagaraj,not even me. Those are only our thoughts and opinions.
But i believe that Ramana did exactly that,siting alone,and attain liberation. Not that i compare with Bhagavan,i couldnt even if i want,but that is the fact. He didnt do anything.
Dear Sri Nagaraj,i am aware that nobody is forcing that,i only gave my opinion,and wanted to stress difference. But,i dont see way should anyone be quiet if point of this conversations is just that,and not that we necessary need to agree on everything. Then,You believe that your thinking is only correct. I dont see how my thinking can be dangerous in any way. Those are only my thoughts,and All those teachings can be interpreted in thousand ways,and every individual,anyway,chose only that which is useful for him.

Nagaraj

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Re: Discussion on the Quotes of Shankaracharya's
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2012, 09:42:25 PM »
Dear Sri Jewel,

It does make a difference by what we express openly. Certain things are best left behind the curtains. We just don't go about letting out in open certain things such as what you have expressed "Dharma is not necessary for liberation" If there is such a person, God will guide him. But we do not come in open and say something that is contrary to general public standard. You have to say only that which is in good as a whole having the larger interest of people in view.

There are sayings by Sages, who say how to speak Truth:

सत्यम् ब्रूयात् प्रियम् ब्रूयात् न ब्रूयात् सत्यमप्रियम् |
प्रियम् नानृतं ब्रूयात् एष धर्मः सनातनः ||


Speak truth in such a way that it should be pleasing to others. Never speak truth, which is unpleasant to others. Never speak untruth, which might be pleasant. This is the path of eternal morality, sanatana dharma.

To speak truth is an eternal value irrespective of time and place. But the expression of truth should be accompanied by two conditions.

Firstly, it should be presented in a loving manner and
secondly it should be spoken for the betterment of others.

How you speak is as important as what is said. Priyam means speech that does not hurt others. Hitam is something that is said for the good or betterment of others. One should be careful of speaking truth but not hurting others.

We should be careful in speaking the truth. The purpose should be good and the words used and the manners in which they are spoken are important. So the value of truthfulness is relative to a situation. According to the Indian scriptures while living in the world of relativity truth can be interpreted in many ways.

सत्यस्य वचनं श्रेय: सत्यादपि हितंवदेत् ।
यद्भूतहितमत्यन्तं ऐतत् सत्यं मतं मम ॥


Telling truth is recommended, but more than that, is telling those things, which are in interest of all. According to me (Naarada), thing which is beneficial to large community, is truth.

Subramanian Sir, here is the Thirukkural which you referred to:

பொய்மையும் வாய்மை யிடத்த புரைதீர்ந்த
நன்மை பயக்கும் எனின்.


If it will result in blemish-free good / benefit, even a lie can be considered to be true.

At all other times, it is wise to remain quiet, instead of expressing something that is contrary to General Dharma.

I would like to apologize, if i have hurt you. it was not intended.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta