Author Topic: What is purpose of chakras ?  (Read 4825 times)

right2be

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What is purpose of chakras ?
« on: September 18, 2012, 05:43:03 AM »
Hello,

While reading path of Sri ramana, I have come to understand that enlightenment comes with detachment from the body. Sri ramana often said to his followers that they place too much importance in the body.

If this is the case, I feel as though chakras are practices which are focused more on the body then they are focused on the "I" or self.

If this is the case, what is the purpose of opening chakras and does it play a role in self realization ?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 10:03:46 AM by ivac_d »

Subramanian.R

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Re: What is purpose of chakras ?
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2012, 10:18:20 AM »
Dear ivac_d,

If you refer to chakras, I would clarify that there are two types of chakras. One is imaginary or a faithful trust that the body
has got several chakras, said to start from the lowest portion of spinal chord to the crown on the head. These are coming under
Yoga Marga, which Sri Sankara and Sri Bhagavan discouraged, though Sri Sankara mentions about the deities in respect of each
such chakkra in his famous Soundarya Lahari. Kavyakanta Ganapti was an adept in this Yoga marga also. Sri Bhagavan recommended
simple and direct path of Atma Vichara.

The other one is symbolic representation of Siva-Sakti principle by making a diagram on a metal (copper  or  gold) and then praying
to Siva-Sakti with this chakra. In this design, there are 4 upward triangles (representing Siva) and five downward triangles,
(representing Sakti) and with a mark in the center, called Bindu. This metal plate is used for pujas by Sakti worshippers. Kavakanta
was also an adept in this.  Sri Bhagavan did not specifically discourage this worship.  If this design becomes three dimensional,
it called Maha Meru. In fact, before Mother's Temple consecration, a Meru was established behind Matrubhuteswara Lingam and this
Maha Meru was examined by Kapali Sastri (disciple of Kavyakanta and Sri Aurobindo, and also devoted to Sri Bhagavan) and certified its authenticity. Any wrongful presentation would cause harm. Sri Soundarya Lahari of Sankara also speaks about this.

Arunachala Siva.     

right2be

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Re: What is purpose of chakras ?
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2012, 12:06:22 PM »
Hello subramanian,

The first one you mentioned is the one which I mean. I am not sure of all the names but it consists of root chakra, solar plexus and crown chakra and a few more. I hear a lot of people talking about it. Opening up their chakras.

Does opening up chakras have anything to do with self realization as taught by Sri ramana and if he does discourage it what would this reason be ?


Subramanian.R

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Re: What is purpose of chakras ?
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2012, 12:41:47 PM »
Dear ivac_d.

It is not exactly Self Realization, but one yogi's ascent from lower chakra to the crown, the prana is said to break open
the crown and reach the Pure Space.  You can also call it Self Realization.

Arunachala Siva.

   

right2be

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Re: What is purpose of chakras ?
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2012, 01:05:37 PM »
So it is not exactly realization of ones true self but opening up ones physical body to astral plane ? Does this mean one can reach this point but still be in the illusion of the ego ?

atmavichar100

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Re: What is purpose of chakras ?
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2012, 01:14:17 PM »
Dear ivac_d.

It is not exactly Self Realization, but one yogi's ascent from lower chakra to the crown, the prana is said to break open
the crown and reach the Pure Space.  You can also call it Self Realization.

Arunachala Siva.

 

Subramaniam Sir

Kundalini raising no doubt gives a blissful experience but it is not Self realization . It is a mental /pranic effort and has nothing to do with Atma .
However most of people on the path of spirituality are attracted by Kundalini awakening and opening up of Chakras and while it is certainly blissful ,it is not self realization . I have myself done these things as a student of Yoga Marga  and have tasted some of the benefits of the same  but given it up now and also  ask people not to follow it and just confine themselves to doing asanas and basic pranayama to maintain health of the body and keep a calm mind .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Nagaraj

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Re: What is purpose of chakras ?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2012, 01:36:40 PM »
What is important in all  these experiences, its purpose is to give the experiencer a peak into the Stillness of the Self, that is Achala, and, Agrahya, ingraspable.

The repeated desire to experience this bliss, is, whether directly or indirectly, these experiences, relieve the expriencer from his worries and worldly woes.

A sharp sadhaka discerns the source of these experiences, the Self, God and does not give/lose himself to such experiences as the end, buut realises how small he is, before the Self, the All powerful God. A Jnani stops not and meditates further on the Source, that is unlimited and the Bhakta stops not. and engages in the praise of the Allmighty that is most Lord of all worlds.

One who has recognised or discerned the purpose of these transcendental experiences, worries no more, as he has seen the source of all these experiences.

Let us not forget that, Realisation is not a goal or an end to achieve. Realisation is simply a residue (which is also only for the onlooker alone) of the one who has seen the Source and reposes or surrenders or is humbled at the unlimited expanse of that there is, above all and before all and after all.

All sadhanas are bound to give some experience or the other, what is important is not the experience but the silence behind that experience, if one fails to notice that substratum silence, then any amount of spiritual experience would not be of any use other than just display any new powers acquired.



As regards to Kundalini,

Sri Ramana Maharshi mentioned that the kundalini energy is nothing but the natural energy of the Self, where Self is the universal consciousness (Paramatma) present in every being, and that the individual mind of thoughts cloaks this natural energy from unadulterated expression. Advaita teaches that Self-realization, enlightenment, God-consciousness, nirvana. But, initial kundalini awakening is just the beginning of actual spiritual experience. Self-inquiry meditation is considered a very natural and simple means of reaching this goal.

Question: Will concentration on Chakras quieten the mind?

  • Sri Ramana Maharshi: Fixing their minds on psychic centres such as the Sahasrara (the thousand petalled lotus Chakra), yogis remain any lengths of time without awareness of their bodies. As long as this state continues, they appear to be immersed in some kind of joy. But when the mind, which has become tranquil emerges and becomes active again it resumes its worldly thoughts. It is therefore necessary to train it with the help of practices like Dhyana (meditation) whenever it becomes externalised. It will then attain a state in which there is neither subsistence nor emergence.
  • The Self does not come from anywhere else and enter the body through the crown of the head. It is as it is, ever sparkling, ever steady, unmoving and unchanging. The individual confines himself to the limits of the changeful body or of the mind which derives its existence from the unchanging Self. All that is necessary is to give up this mistaken identity, and that done, the ever shining Self will be seen to be the single non-dual reality.

(From The Teachings of Sri Ramana Maharshi, Edited by David Godman")
[/i]
Further readings - Talks 282, 392, 131

« Last Edit: September 18, 2012, 01:39:26 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ksksat27

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Re: What is purpose of chakras ?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 01:48:39 PM »
So it is not exactly realization of ones true self but opening up ones physical body to astral plane ? Does this mean one can reach this point but still be in the illusion of the ego ?

Hi

Meditation on body chakras is a valid path for self realization.  Unless one has any personal desires for siddhi,  there is no issue.

A powerful yogi after his high attainmens and the accumulation of ojas and rejas shakthis due to his brahmacharya will experience nirvikalpa samadhi at crown of his head.

For such a person,  a one time act of self enquiry will result in realisation.

They are like quickly inflammable petrol tank.  They are almost ready for self realisation.  A quick glance from a realized guru,  or a mere act of surrener  or a one time self enquiry will result in their realisation.


And the disciples of such a yogi who worships him with faith,  they will acquire enough merits to further progress in sadhana.


Subramanian.R

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Re: What is purpose of chakras ?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2012, 04:38:19 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

Yes. It is equally a good path, so long one is not after siddhis. Sometimes siddhis would come on their own accord,  but one should
not go after them.

But I am told when the prana or kundalini ascends and reaches Saharsrara, there will  be immense unbearable pain on the skull
till prana breaks open the crown and goes into Pure Space.

We have on record that when Kavyakanta reaches that state in Tiruvottiyur and the pain became unbearable for him,
he simply lied down on the temple floor. Sri Bhagavan, who had never left T'malai, came to know it and he went skyward and
reached Tiruvottiyur, found the Ganapati temple, where Sri Ganapati Muni was lying down and He placed His hands on his skull
and the pain subsided.

Later when Kavyakanta described it to Sri Bhagavan, He said: I did not go anywhere from T'malai.  Suddenly some force took me
to Tiruvottiyur and  I found Nayana there in Ganapati temple and placed my hands on His skull and he got cured.

What to say? Kavyakanta was a man of enormous courage but he himself could not bear the pain of prana breaking open
the crown. Sri Bhagavan helped him out.

This shows that Jnanis would also have siddhic powers bu they very very rarely use them.

Sri Sankara flying to Kaladi to see His mother Aryamba in her death bed and give her Vishnu padam is also one such rare
feat.

Arunachala Siva.               

right2be

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Re: What is purpose of chakras ?
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2012, 12:06:06 PM »


Yes. It is equally a good path, so long one is not after siddhis. Sometimes siddhis would come on their own accord,  but one should
not go after them.




why should one not go after siddhis ? i understand realisation of one self is ultimate compared to siddhis and have read somewhere that people which have attained siddhis, invisibility power etc have visited Sri Ramana Maharshi. Is it wrong for people to have desire to attain siddhis even if they do not wish to use it for destructive purposes ?

Subramanian.R

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Re: What is purpose of chakras ?
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2012, 12:52:09 PM »
Dear ivac-d,

Forget about Siddhars (who are said to live thousands of years, in the form of light, invisible etc.,) . They are a different clan.

For us, sadhakas, siddhis are a great distraction in attaining Self Realization. It diverts our attention towards such
supernatural powers and we forget our real goal.


Arunachala Siva. 

atmavichar100

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Re: What is purpose of chakras ?
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2012, 02:37:56 PM »


In Skanda Guru Kavacham, there is a verse "Siddiyile  Periya Siddhi Jnana Siddhi" i.e highest of all Siddhis is Jnana Siddh i.e Self - relaization .



However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

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Re: What is purpose of chakras ?
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2012, 04:10:38 PM »
Dear atmavichar100,

Yes. Atma Jnana (Self Realization) is the greatest  siddhi. Once permanent abidance in the Self is attained, Siddhis are like
dreams. Like when a King goes for procession, his army will follow him, for a Jnani, siddhis will parade with him. But a Jnani
does not care a bit.

See these beautiful verses in Padamalai of Muruganar:

1815: The eight great siddhis will reach the presence of and will sport before those whose hearts are naturally established
          in the Self abidance.

1816: Those who rejoice, having subsided in Sivam, will not pay even the slightest attention to these siddhis that only cause
          sorrow (because they are impermanent.)

2219: Before the self-effulgent attainment of Siva Jnana, all other siddhis will slip away being defective.

2833: Even if many wonderful siddhis reach them, in the hearts of true Jnanis there is no infatuation for them.

2295: Describing through (his) siddhis the realized state of a Jnani, which surges, transcending the mind, is a delusion of
          the mind.

Again Guru Vachaka Kovai of Muruganar:

Verse 221:  In a heart that has caught fire through the spreading flames of the blazing fire of supreme Jnana, the entire
                   collection of siddhis accumulate simultaneously. However, because true devotees have desire to become a complete
                   prey to the feet of the Lord, they will not feet, even slightly, any desire for them.

Arunachala Siva.   
   
 

ksksat27

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Re: What is purpose of chakras ?
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2012, 06:09:45 PM »


Yes. It is equally a good path, so long one is not after siddhis. Sometimes siddhis would come on their own accord,  but one should
not go after them.



You can aspire siddhis for world benefit and uplift ment  --  but this zone is very very narrow.  unless one has sufficiently trained himself to do selfless service,  unless one has won over all attachments to the slightest trace,  anytime the demon ego may crop up and all of one's sadhana will be spent on siddhis.

To help the world,  one must help oneself first.  If someone is in need of help even to slight extent,  better he restrains from all this siddhi and other distractions.




why should one not go after siddhis ? i understand realisation of one self is ultimate compared to siddhis and have read somewhere that people which have attained siddhis, invisibility power etc have visited Sri Ramana Maharshi. Is it wrong for people to have desire to attain siddhis even if they do not wish to use it for destructive purposes ?

Subramanian.R

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Re: What is purpose of chakras ?
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2012, 06:23:03 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

It is because Siddhis divert one's mind from the main goal of Self abidance. Even if one does not want siddhis, they wiill
make the sadhalas go infatuated about them.  O I am becoming invisble. O I am making copper into gold: O I am making my
arrogant opponent  become subservient to me! O I am causing that woman to come after me! O I making milk into water. 
Now there is no need to wait for milk supply in the morning!

Such are the attractions. All are like dreams only.  Once when Yogi  Ramiah went out in T'malai, he found one magician making
hot hot pakoras from out of nothing. He was amazed. He asked him: Why not you make a living out of selling pakoras. The magician
replied: Swami!  These siddhis are given to me by my guru only to make people get attracted by such feats. These pakoras, I cannot
eat myself. If I eat them, I shall vomit blood., I have to live only by Re 1 or Rs 2 given by the onlookers who witness such feats.
What to do?

Sri Bhagavan says about this in Verse 25 of Ulladu Narpadu.

Arunachala Siva.,