Author Topic: my musings  (Read 116971 times)

Nagaraj

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Re: my musings
« Reply #75 on: September 28, 2012, 04:49:11 PM »
मानसं तु किं मार्गणे कृते ।
नैव मानसं मार्ग आर्जवात् ॥ 17


mänasaà tu kià märgaëe kåte
naiva mänasaà märge ärjavät

if one persists in asking, “What is this mind
of mine?” it will be found that there is really no
such thing as ‘mind’. This is the Direct Path.

वृत्तयस्त्वहं वृत्तिमाश्रिताः ।
वृत्तयो मनो विद्ध्यहं मनः ॥ 18


våttayastvahaà våtti-maçritaù
våttayo mano viddhayahaà manaù

What one has thought of as his mind is merely a
bundle of thoughts. All these thoughts depend
upon the one thought of “I”, the ego. Therefore,
the so-called mind is the “I” thought.

अहमयं कुतो भवति चिन्वतः ।
अयि पतत्यहं निजविचारणम् ॥ 19


ahamayaà kuto bhavati cinvataù
ayi patatyahaà nijavicäraëam

If one asks himself, “Where does this I come
from?” it will vanish. This is Self-enquiry, or
atma-vichara.

(Upadesa Saaram)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: my musings
« Reply #76 on: September 28, 2012, 06:15:50 PM »
Dear Nagaraj and Tushnim,

Saint Manikkavachagar says that he is slowly consumed by jungle of thoughts and suffers like a worm, eaten by
ants. He says: I am suffering, please take away my body to your feet, lest the Yama will consume me totally.
The gods and heavenly bodies have already got your Siva padam. Let me your lowly devotee also get that
great feet.   

Like big fish eat way the small fish, I am eaten slowly by the jungle of thoughts. O Lord with
Ganga and crescent moon on your head! O my gem, take me to your
Abode and save me.
Neethal ViNNapan - Desire to leave the body: tiruvachakam:

.றும்பிடை நாங்கூழ் எனப்புலனால் அரிப்புண்டு அலந்த
வெறும் தமியேனை விடுதி கண்டாய் வெய்ய கூற்று ஒடுங்க
உறும் கடிப்போது அவையே உணர்வு உற்றவர் உம்பர் உம்பர்
பெறும் பதமே அடியார் பெயராத பெருமையனே. 129

பெருநீர் அறச் சிறுமீன் துவண்டு ஆங்கு நினைப் பிரிந்த
வெருநீர் மையேனை விடுதி கண்டாய் வியன் கங்கை பொங்கி
வரும்நீர் மடுவுள் மலைச்சிறு தோணி வடிவின் வெள்ளைக்
குருநீர் மதிபொதியும் சடை வானக் கொழு மணியே. 130

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Self is not the Goal
« Reply #77 on: September 28, 2012, 06:49:34 PM »
Dear Aryavarta आर्यावर्त (abode of the noble or excellent ones)

:) i am having to use the above term in the spirit of my musings below. I am just trying to bring a slight paradigm shift, in all our sincere efforts and prayers -

That which is Dharmic, will never bind one, but that which is Adharmic, will ever bind one. So, the Masters say, practice Dharma. Dharma itself is Self, Adharma is Non Self. If the desires are righteous how can it bind one, if the actions are righteous, how can it bind one. Then, the so called, mind, can never haunt such a one. Mana Eva Manushyanam Kaaranam Bandha Mokshah, Mind alone is the cause of bondage and liberation.

I am of the humble opinion, that we should strive to lead a Dharmic life, that which is good and right, whose conscience is ever clear, more than strive to attain the Liberation, Enlightenment, and so on, which actually i am seeing that it is actually being counter productive.

Prior to Buddha, the Vedic and the Upanishadic Seers have never propagated the Realisation of Self as a Goal at all. No where in the Vedas, can one really find any instruction anywhere, to go about and realise the Self, Atma. It is svatah-siddha or self-evident, already evident.

What eventually became to be known as Realisation of Self, or Jivanmukti is simply perfection in virtuous living, which is the annihilation of the following:

1. kama — lust
2. krodha — anger
3. lobh — greed
4. moha — delusory emotional attachment
5. mada or ahankara — pride, hubris
6. matsarya — envy, jealousy

Which put together is termed as the EGO -    अहंकार Ahamkaar

Therefore, in the name of quest for Self or the Lord, all that one strives to achieve is verily the annihilation of the above 6 doshas or faults. But, what is the use in the quest, if this itself is forgotten? The So called terms such as Self, Jivanmukti etc... are just terms used to refer the ones who have conquered the above Doshas faults. Devotees may refer the famous Vishwamitra and Vaishta Muni debates. Vasishta declared Vishwamitra as Brahma Rishi only when he could conquer all of the above Doshas.

The vedas extensively talk about, Aaryans आर्यन्, meaning the Noble one.

Therefore, it is highly possible that instead of striving to lead a truly Dharmic life, which the Vedic seers refer as AryAvarta आर्यावर्त sacred land of the Aryans. In the name of Self Realisation and so on, we are loosing some important wisdom in the middle and are getting caught in some endless cycle of samsara. And the interpretations of the words of Sages have contributed much to the spiritual buzz about enlightenment and so on.

Some musings.. for contemplation. Instead of the desire and a prayer to realise the Self, (yes, i am aware Bhagavan has said only desire to have is the desire of Self, but we must strive to discern the true essence, and not blindly go about it) one must strive to lead a truly Dharmic life, and when one is truly able to live, such a one is said to have realised the Self and so on. Such a one alone is truly an Aryan आर्यन्

So, when we are caught with any of the 6 doshas, we should be sharp enough to first know ourselves, that we are bordering in committing an Adharmic act, one should therefore, exercise various as advised by the Sages to primarily overcome the Doshas. Those instructions of the Karma Kanda of Vedas and the methods prescribed by the Later Sages, also fall under the Karma Kanda, Even the Self Enquiry, Bhakti, etc... what ever we read, all fall under Karma Kanda of the Vedas. It is natural desire for every one to know their source, where they are from, who they are, etc.. hence the Karma Kanda prescribes various procedures, through which one may have a darshan of the source, which we call God, Atma, Self and so on. But the Vedanta is the End of Knowledge. Enjoy, and desire to see the Self, Atma, God, in any form you may want to till your hearts fill, which forms the part of Karma Kanda, later when one is contented, on just is. He no longer desires to see or have a Darshan of Self Atma, as he is now ripened, Karma Kanda automatically drops over, he is now in the Vedanta, end of Knowledge. He realises the source of everything as the Self. Like Bhagavan sings, Atma SamSthithihi, Swaatma Darshanm. Being is having its Darshan. He no longer goes in search of his source, he no longer longs to have a darshan of his source, as He is himself the source. He reposes. Vedanta.

such an Aryan is a Jivan mukta.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 06:55:32 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: my musings
« Reply #78 on: September 28, 2012, 07:23:53 PM »
Sri Bhagavan says in
Talks No.

Devotee: What is the nature of Reality?

B: Existence without beginning or end. - eternal
    Existence everywhere, endless and infinite.
    Existence underlying all forms, all changes, all forces, all matter and all spirit.
    The One displacing triads. Reality lies beyond them.

Devotee: If 'I' also be an illusion, who then casts of the illusion?

B: The 'I' casts of the illusion of 'I' and yet remains as 'I'. Such is the paradox of Self Realization.

Talks No., 101:

You are always in the Heart. You are never away from it in order that you should reach it.

Because you are always That never never away from That. There is nothing so simple as being the Self. It requires no effort, no aid.
One has   to leave off the wrong identity and be in his eternal, natural inherent state.

Arunachala Siva.     
 

Nagaraj

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Joy of Giving
« Reply #79 on: September 28, 2012, 08:06:52 PM »
Friends,

I can guarantee you, that you would derive more bliss or happiness, from such small gestures (video) than that of some great, wonderful  discovery about Self... or having attained some great clarity about Self. Some of you may have seen it.

The feelings that trigger when you see this video is more real than the Self that we are in quest of. This is the Throb of Self. This is Everything. If we look at great Sages such as Bhagavan, Ramakrishar, it is these gestures that they so much tried to communicate. Sri Ramakrishnar has often commented against the dry knowledge. It is this ability to feel, that makes living species special. Celebrate life. Celebrate the Throb.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kPkhJYXhZ8&feature=player_detailpage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdYaJfU4IIQ&feature=player_detailpage

« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 08:11:38 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: my musings
« Reply #80 on: September 28, 2012, 08:54:47 PM »
Quote
I can guarantee you, that you would derive more bliss or happiness, from such small gestures (video) than that of some great, wonderful  discovery about Self... or having attained some great clarity about Self. Some of you may have seen it.


Nagraj garu,

Yes. I had always been on it from when I can remember. But my problem is -

(1) the joy I get is temporary.
(2) I need to keep doing it to derive the joy and thus be obsessed about it
(3) There will be times in life when I am incapable of doing it (health, financial etc) and the joy goes. Because I cant do it once and feel the joy forever obviously
(4) The more I do, the more problems I see around and I am utterly unhappy that I cannot do even more and that cycle goes on growing inside me.

Any thoughts ?

Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Subramanian.R

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Re: my musings
« Reply #81 on: September 28, 2012, 08:56:58 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

The Joy of Giving.


Sri Bhagavan's Maha Vakyas are many:

See this one in His answer to Q 14  of Sivapraksam Pillai:


...All that one gives to others, one gives to one self.  If this truth is understood, who will not give to others?

Arunachala Siva,




Nagaraj

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Re: my musings
« Reply #82 on: September 28, 2012, 09:07:31 PM »
no complications Sanjay garu,

(1) i feel we should not intellectualise these gestures, ie. they are temporary and that it is good to avoid, such lines are against the will of Self
(2) The thing is not to keep on repeating it mechanically, it is more so, to be connected with the spirit of the univere, the power that sustains, everything, or we may say, it is to be connected with the Self. when this connection is like an unbroken flow of oil or a stream of water, it will be spontaneous, you will not worry, that i have to repeat it.
(3) When you are incapable, it will enhance your feelings, the feelings of being unable to help is great boon, that Taapam, of being unable to do is, is Pumsaam, great purifier. That Thrb, that life is more essential, whether your are being made to do it or not is not in our hands.
(4) we should not begin with an idea that i will go and help others, it is done in the spirit of now, and not hold on to the past of future. What is to be done by you will be done irrespective of our wish. As I said, it is more to be connected with the Throb. It is not the Act that is important. If you are unhappy as you say, if you look deeply, it is actually not unhappiness, but an intense yearning or a prayer to God, 'O God, why is there so much suffering all over' we are becoming more aware of universal consciousness, and are not just limited to only Self, family and friends.

We have to feel, that Bhavam is important. my humble musings.

Of-course, i am not saying anybody to stop any spiritual practices. But just that am saying, we ought not be bogged by only just self spiritual quest alone.

...my humble thoughts.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: my musings
« Reply #83 on: September 28, 2012, 09:11:34 PM »
Sri Bhagavan's Maha Vakyas are many:
See this one in His answer to Q 14  of Sivapraksam Pillai:
...All that one gives to others, one gives to one self.  If this truth is understood, who will not give to others?

Dear Sir,

how beautiful, and how better can one express this whole thing about giving? yes absolutely, that one gives to others, one gives to one self.

We have to be alive, we have to feel, be more open to the sufferings in the world, that yearning has to spring from with as a prayer, from the source, where everything originates.

Bhagavan's whole life is all about giving, infact, he has give more than Self Enquiry, SOLACE, he cried with those who shared their agony, he fed those hungry, he allowed a yearning dog to lick all his body, and did not even care to wash himself, he wiped a puppys mouth which ate extreta...

Its the throb, the feeling of being alive, of being able to feel - this is more important... this is the Self Throb.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: my musings
« Reply #84 on: September 28, 2012, 09:22:24 PM »
That cannot be spirituality, which makes us say, there is only suffering in the world so i want to realise my Self.

it will not work. We got to live our life and we got to live it well. Live like an awakened man.

WHAT IS AJANANA, IGNORANCE? IT IS FEAR THAT KEEPS US AWAY FROM SELF REAlISATION.

It is the fear of Samsara, fear of Death, fear of suffering, and so on, one self can add more things. We got to face the fear in order to realise the Self.

Samsara is simply fear. It is fear that moves the samsara, it is fear that is the reason for sufferings. and Love or compassion is the Self that sustains the world, the universe. Therefore, Love, or compassion or the Throb, is strength, Love of Compassion is Self.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 09:24:48 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Neither Self nor Non-Self
« Reply #85 on: September 29, 2012, 10:32:22 AM »
आत्मेत्यपि प्रज्ञपितमनात्मेत्यपि देशितं ।
बुद्धैर्नात्मा न चानात्मा कश्चिदित्यपि देशितं ॥


Atmetyapi prajnapitamanatmetyapi deahitau
buddhairnatma na canatma kashcidityapi deahitau

The Buddha's have make known the conception of self and taught the
doctrine of no-self. At the same time, they have not spoken of something
as the self or as the non-self.

(Nagarjuna)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Ideas endless
« Reply #86 on: September 29, 2012, 12:54:02 PM »
The guru's word is one,
ideas about it endless.
Sages and pandits exhaust themselves,
the Vedas can't touch its limit.

(Kabir, Ramaini)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ramana_maharshi

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Re: my musings
« Reply #87 on: September 29, 2012, 02:58:29 PM »
Quote
That cannot be spirituality, which makes us say, there is only suffering in the world so i want to realise my Self.

it will not work. We got to live our life and we got to live it well. Live like an awakened man.

Dear Nagaraj garu,

how do you know it will not work if we want to realise the self only and does not bother about others?

Can you tell me difference between mother-theresa and ramana maharshi?

Nagaraj

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Re: my musings
« Reply #88 on: September 29, 2012, 04:09:23 PM »
how do you know it will not work if we want to realise the self only and does not bother about others?
Can you tell me difference between mother-theresa and ramana maharshi?

Dear Prashant garu,

It will certainly not work, i am able to express with absolute convition because, the Self and the 'Other' which you intend to not bother are not different. Not bothering about others is actually not bothering the Self. When we are evidently seeing so much difference as to not bothering all other except Self, where can you find such a Self that excludes 'others'? Such a Self never exists anywhere. This is my discernment.

As regards to Mother Theresa and Ramana Maharhi, the only difference i can see, is that one is mother and the other is father, or i can say, one is Sri Ramakrishnar, one is Shirdi Sai Baba, one is Maha Periyava, one is Sri chandrashekhara Bharati of Sringeri, they call one as Christian one has Hindu, one as Kabir, one as Jnandev. They are the same Supreme Self in human form.

« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 04:13:01 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: my musings
« Reply #89 on: September 29, 2012, 04:59:48 PM »
I agree. Not "Bothering" WILL NEVER EVER BE POSSIBLE for one who is in quest of self. But whether they are as "expressive" as Mother or not so expressive reaching out to millions as Father - is dictated by Prarabdha. that is why we dont see "copycat Jnanis" - each one is different and did different karmas.

Salutations to Bhagawan