Author Topic: my musings  (Read 134748 times)

Hari

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Re: my musings
« Reply #255 on: October 30, 2012, 10:33:28 PM »
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Nagaraj

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Re: my musings
« Reply #256 on: October 30, 2012, 10:59:42 PM »
Sri Hari, Sri Jewel,

have been listening to the mani padme hum, about 20 minutes is over. Very peaceful, in the silence of the nights, Buddha is very dear to me. He too is my Master, I feel Buddha and Compassion are synonymous, for he made available the same truth in vedas available to all people in the world today, crossing all barriers! This also reminds me of Ramanujacharya who, after having heard the maha mantra Om namo Narayana from his guru, went up the temple terrace of Melkote and shouted it out to common folks. What compassion! How many souls has Buddha touched all over the world, so many souls getting solace from his grace. The effect of his grace can be openly seen in a small medium such as internet in these very videos, these videos, especially of that inspired of Buddha reflect highest sensitivity and refinement, humility, even in its craft, the pictures used, the colours, truly amazing!

Buddha is one great Sun, still shining since 1500 years.



॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: my musings
« Reply #257 on: October 30, 2012, 11:10:37 PM »
I know how you feel, dear Nagaraj! I feel the same way. Buddha is one my dearest teachers. His teachings are universal and are for everyone - Hindu, Chirsitan, white, black, theist, atheist, etc. Buddha did not reject anyone. There is a story among Buddhist texts about His rejection of women but I don't give them much credibility.

Om Shanti Shanti Shanti
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Jewell

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Re: my musings
« Reply #258 on: October 30, 2012, 11:59:44 PM »
Dear Hari,dear Sri Nagaraj,

I share Your thoughts about Buddha! I Love Him too Very much,and His teachings was always so dear and close to my heart. And that would be Compassion and Love. He Is embodyment of Goodness,and for me,God and Supreme can be and always was only that,Supreme Goodness.
I too dont believe in those words about women,it could never be like that. Only,that was different time back then,with different way of living,and i believe,after Buddha left His body,His students and monks made that rule,about women. I understand them in some way,coz it must be great chalenge to be monk and around women in the same time. I say i understand them,but not agree! I believe Buddha had women followers also.
But,even if He didnt had,i would Always feel same about Buddha.



Hari

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Re: my musings
« Reply #259 on: October 31, 2012, 12:03:24 AM »
Dear Jewell, one of His first followers was His stepmother! So these statements about women as baseless for me. :)
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Nagaraj

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Re: my musings
« Reply #260 on: November 01, 2012, 01:51:58 PM »
Nobody believed that Baba knew Sanskrit. One day He surprised all by giving a good interpretation of a verse from the Gita to Nanasaheb Chandorkar. A brief account about this matter was written by Mr.B.V.Deo, Retired Mamlatdar and published in Marathi in 'Shri Sai Leela' magazine, Vol IV. Sphuta Vishaya, page 563. Short accounts of the same are also published in 'Sai Baba's Charters and Sayings' page 61 and in 'The Wondrous Saint Sai Baba', page 36 - both by Brother B.V.Narsimhaswami. Mr.B.V.Deo has also given an English version of this in his statement dated 27-9-1936 and published on page 66 of "Devotees' Experiences, Part III" published by the said Swami. As Mr.Deo has got first hand information about this Subject from Nanasaheb himself we give below his version.

Nanasaheb Chandorkar was a good student of Vedanta. He had read Gita with commentaries and prided himself on his knowledge of all that. He fancied that Baba knew nothing of all this or of Sanskrit. So, Baba one day pricked the bubble. These were the days before crowds flocked to Baba, when Baba had solitary talks at the Mosque with such devotees. Nana was sitting near Baba and massaging His Legs and muttering something.


Baba - Nana, what are you mumbling yourself?

Nana - Iam reciting a shloka (verse) from Sanskrit.

Baba - What shloka?

Nana - From Bhagawad-Gita

Baba - Utter it loudly.

Nana then recited B.G.IV-34 which is as follows :-

'Tadviddhi Pranipatena Pariprashnena Sevaya,

Upadekshyanti Te Jnanam Jnaninastattwadarshinah'

Baba - Nana, do you understand it?

Nana - Yes.

Baba - If you do, then tell me.
                       

Nana - It means this - "Making Sashtanga Namaskar, i.e., prostration, questioning the guru, serving him, learn what this Jnana is. Then, those Jnanis that have attained the real knowledge of the Sad-Vastu (Brahma) will give you upadesha (instruction) of Jnana."

Baba - Nana, I do not want this sort of collected purport of the whole stanza. Give me each word, its grammatical force and meaning.

Then Nana explained it word by word.

Baba - Nana, is it enough to make prostration merely ?

Nana - I do not know any other meaning for the word 'pranipata' than 'making prostration'.

Baba - What is 'pariprashna'?

Nana - Asking questions.

baba - What does 'Prashna' mean?

Nana - The same (questioning).

Baba - If 'pariprashna' means the same as prashna (question), why did Vyasa add the prefix 'pari'? Was Vyasa off his head?

Nana - I do not know of any other meaning for the word 'pariprashna'.

Baba - 'Seva', what sort of 'seva' is meant?

Nana - Just what we are doing always

Baba - Is it enough to render such service?

Nana - I do not know what more is signified by the word 'seva'.

Baba - In the next line "upadekshyanti te jnanam", can you so read it as to read any other word in lieu of Jnanam?

Nana - Yes.

Baba - What word?

Nana - Ajnanam.

Baba - Taking that word (instead of Jnana) is any meaning made out of the verse?

Nana - No, Shankara Bhashya gives no such construction.

Baba - Never mind if it does not. Is there any objection to using the word "Ajnana" if it gives a better sense?

Nana - I do not understand how to construe by placing "Ajnana" in it.

Baba - Why does Krishna refer Arjuna to Jnanis or Tattwadarshis to do his prostration, interrogation and service? Was not Krishna a Tattwadarshi, in fact Jnana himself.

Nana - Yes He was. But I do not make out why he referred Arjuna to Jnanis?

Baba - Have you not understood this?

Nana was humiliated. His pride was knocked on the head. Then Baba began to explain -

(1) It is not enough merely to prostrate before the Jnanis. We must make Sarvaswa Sharangati (complete surrender) to the Sad-guru.

(2) Mere questioning is not enough. The question must not be made with any improper motive or attitude or to trap the Guru and catch at mistakes in the answer, or out of idle curiosity. It must be serious and with a view to achieve moksha or spiritual progress.

(3) Seva is not rendering service, retaining still the feeling that one is free to offer or refuse service. One must feel that he is not the master of the body, that the body is Guru's and exists merely to render service to him.

If this is done, the Sad-guru will show you what the Janna referred to in the previous stanza is.

Nana did not understand what is meant by saying that a guru teaches ajnana.

Baba - How is Jnana Upadesh, i.e., imparting of realization to be effected? Destroying ignorance is Jnana. (cf. Verse-Ovi-1396 of Jnaneshwari commenting on Gita 18-66 says - "removal of ignorance is like this, Oh Arjuna, If dream and sleep disappear, you are yourself. It is like that." Also Ovi 83 on Gita V-16 says - "Is there anything different or independent in Jnana besides the destruction of ignornace?")* Expelling darkness means light. Destroying duality (dwaita) means non-duality (adwaita). Whenever we speak of destroying Dwaita, we speak of Adwaita. Whenever we talk of destroying darkness, we talk of light. If we have to realise the Adwaita state, the feeling of Dwaita in ourselves has to be removed. That is the realization of the Adwaita state. Who can speak of Adwaita while remaining in Dwaita? If one did, unless one gets into that state, how can one know it and realise it?

Again, the Shishya (disciple) like the Sad-guru is really embodiment of Jnana. The difference between the two lies in the attitude, high realization, marvellous super-human Sattva (beingness) and unrivalled capacity and Aishwarya Yoga (divine powers). The Sad-guru is Nirguna, Sat-Chit-Ananda. He has indeed taken human form to elevate mankind and raise the world. But his real Nirguna nature is not destroyed thereby, even a bit. His beingness (or reality), divine power and widsom remain undiminished. The disciple also is in fact of the same swarupa. But, it is overlaid by the effect of the samaskaras of innumerable births in the shape of ignorance, which hides from his view that he is Shuddha Chaitanya (see B.G. Ch. V-15). As stated therein, he gets the impressions - "Iam Jiva, a creature, humble and poor." The Guru has to root out these offshoots of ignorance and has to give upadesh or instruction. To the disciple, held spell-bound for endless generations by the ideas of his being a creature, humble and poor, the Guru imparts in hundreds of births the teaching - "You are God, you are mighty and opulent." Then, he realizes a bit that he is God really. The perpetual delusion under which the disciple is labouring, that he is the body, that he is a creature (jiva) or ego, that God (Paramatma) and the world are different from him, is an error inherited from innumerable past births. From actions based on it, he has derived his joy, sorrows and mixtures of both. To remove this delusion, this error, this root ignorance, he must start the inquiry. How did the ignorance arise? Where is it? And to show him this is called the Guru's upadesh. The following are the instances of Ajnana :-

1 - I am a Jiva (creature)

2 - Body is the soul (I am the body).

3 - God, world and Jiva are different.

4 - I am not God.

5 - Not knowing, that body is not the soul.

6 - Not knowing that God, world and Jiva are one.

Unless these errors are exposed to his view, the disciple cannot learn what is God, jiva, world, body; how they are inter-related and whether they are different from each other, or are one and the same. To teach him these and destroy his ignorance is this instruction in Jnana or Ajnana. Why should Jnana be imparted to the jiva, (who is) a Jnanamurti? Upadesh is merely to show him his error and destroy his ignorance.

Baba added :- (1) Pranipata implies surrender. (2) Surrender must be of body, mind and wealth; Re: (3) Why should Krishna refer Arjuna to other Jnanis? "Sadbhakta takes every thing to be Vasudev (B.G.VII-19 i.e., any Guru will be Krishna to the devotee) and Guru takes disciple to be Vasudev and Krishna treats both as his Prana and Atma (B.G.7-18, commentary of Jnanadev on this). As Shri Krishna knows that there are such Bhaktas and Gurus, He refers Arjuna to them so that their greatness may increase and be known.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: my musings
« Reply #261 on: November 02, 2012, 10:18:25 PM »
Clock ticks on, days pass by, months, years pass by and there is no trace of an ending, still! The mystery of mAyA goes on endlessly, along with the tonnes of knowledge, still nothing ends, clock ticks on... we take so many aids for help, but none lasts in time, memories too, is not of help here, excepting to offer moments of solace. Rama Krishna Govinda, how long can these names be chanted, numbers are countless. Of what avail are the knowledge i am that i am, and so on, here? everything is destroyed here, nothing remains as the clock ticks on, and i remain to see it move, they say, i am the clock and the tick, what use is this knowledge here yet again, it is dismissed! Where is the end? there is no ending!
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 08:22:35 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: my musings
« Reply #262 on: November 02, 2012, 10:33:49 PM »
Infinity! They say, is Thy name, no beginning and no ending they say, formless is Thy form! When i turn aside to see for your beginning, your form makes me turn around, and I still find myself turning aside in seeing your beginning, so, I give up, and take to see your head, up, i look up, up and I am completely twisted still unable to see your head! You say look within, there is nothing there within, the looking is endless! You say Just be! But the time is endless! you say yearn for me, it passes away! You say engage in your activities, it never ceases! Your expanse seems like a unendingly stretching rubber band. Up Down East West North South, diagonals, inside, outside, all art Thou. Tick Tock Tick Tock...
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: my musings
« Reply #263 on: November 02, 2012, 10:48:13 PM »
I see You, You see me, I see You, You see me, So what is there, you say, I am You, so who sees who, and what is seeing? what is to happen upon seeing that which cannot be seen, seen? What is it to it, if it is seen or not seen! Who knows what is seen, seen  not? What can be seen, when seeing is unending, there is no ending for the seeing to finish, and then to know! Seer behind seer behind seer behind seer, there is no end to the original seer, there is no beginning of the seer! If i take a mirror as aid, reflection inside reflection inside reflection inside reflection, there is no ending of the reflection!
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: my musings
« Reply #264 on: November 03, 2012, 04:42:48 AM »
"Do you know my attitude? As for myself, I eat, drink, and live happily. The rest the Divine Mother knows"-Sri Ramakrishna

Nagaraj

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Re: my musings
« Reply #265 on: November 03, 2012, 08:21:53 AM »
Thank you Sri Ravi

:)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: my musings
« Reply #266 on: November 03, 2012, 08:47:13 AM »
..........contd.

The Master sang:

Remember this, O mind! Nobody is your own:
Vain is your wandering in this world.
Trapped in the subtle snare of māyā as you are,
Do not forget the Mother's name.

Only a day or two men honour you on earth
As lord and master; all too soon
That form, so honoured now, must needs be cast away,
When Death, the Master, seizes you.

Even your beloved wife, for whom, while yet you live,
You fret yourself almost to death,
Will not go with you then; she too will say farewell,
And shun your corpse as an evil thing.

Continuing, the Master said: "What are these things you busy yourself with-this arbitration and leadership? I hear that you settle people's quarrels and that they make you the arbiter. You have been doing this kind of work a long time. Let those who care for such things do them. Now devote your mind more and more to the Lotus Feet of God. The saying goes: 'Ravana died in Lanka and Behula wept bitterly for him!' "Sambhu, too, said, 'I shall build hospitals and dispensaries.' He was a devotee of God; so I said to him, 'Will you ask God for hospitals and dispensaries when you see Him?'

"Keshab Sen asked me, 'Why do I not see God?' I said, 'You do not see God because you busy yourself with such things as name and fame and scholarship.' The mother does not come to the child as long as it sucks its toy-a red toy. But when, after a few minutes, it throws the toy away and cries, then the mother takes down the rice-pot from the hearth and comes running to the child.

"You are engaged in arbitration. The Divine Mother says to Herself:'My child over there is now busy arbitrating and is very happy. Let him be.'

In the mean time Ishan had been holding Sri Ramakrishna's feet. He said humbly, "It is not my will that I should do those things."

MASTER: "I know it. This is the Divine Mother's play-Her lila. It is the will of the Great Enchantress that many should remain  entangled in the world. Do you know what it is like?

How many are the boats, O mind,
That float on the ocean of this world!
How many are those that sink!

Again,

Out of a hundred thousand kites, at best but one or two break free; And Thou dost laugh and clap Thy hands, O Mother, watching them! Only one or two in a hundred thousand get liberation. The rest are entangled through the will of the Divine
Mother.

"Haven't you seen the game of hide-and-seek? It is the 'granny's' will that the game should continue. If all touch her and are released, then the playing comes to a stop. Therefore it is not her will that all should touch her "You see, in big grain stores the merchants keep rice in great heaps that touch the ceiling. Beside them there are heaps of lentils. To protect the grain from the mice, the merchants leave trays of puffed rice and sweetened rice near it. The mice like the smell and the sweet taste of these and so stayaround the trays. They don't find the big heaps of grain. Similarly, men aredeluded by 'woman and gold'; they do not know where God is.

"Rāma said to Nārada, 'Ask a boon of Me.' Nārada said: 'O Rāma, is there anything I lack? What shall I ask of Thee? But if Thou must give me a boon, grant that I may have selfless love for Thy Lotus Feet and that I may not be deluded by Thy world-bewitching māyā.' Rāma said, 'Nārada, ask something else.' Nārada again replied: O Rāma, I don't want anything else Be gracious to me and see that I have pure love for Thy Lotus Feet.'

"I prayed to the Divine Mother: 'O Mother, I don't want name and fame I don't want the eight occult powers. I don't want a hundred occult powers O Mother, I have no desire for creature comforts. Please, Mother, grant me the boon that I may have pure love for Thy Lotus Feet.'

"It is written in the Adhyātma Rāmāyana that Lakshmana asked Rāma 'Rāma, in how many forms and moods do You exist? How shall I be able to recognize You?' Rāma said: 'Brother, remember this. You may be certain that I exist wherever you find the manifestation of ecstatic love.' That love makes one laugh and weep and dance and sing; if anyone has developed such love, you may know for certain that God Himself is manifest there. Chaitanyadeva reached that state."

The devotees listened spellbound to Sri Ramakrishna. His burning words entered their souls, spurring them along the path of renunciation.

.......

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Jewell

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Re: my musings
« Reply #267 on: November 03, 2012, 12:27:40 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj, Wonderful,wonderful musings!

Nagaraj

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Re: my musings
« Reply #268 on: November 03, 2012, 07:42:02 PM »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Activity After Enlightenment
« Reply #269 on: November 03, 2012, 09:45:51 PM »
Very good dialogue with Swami Krishnananda, The Divine Life Society:


Visitor: There are some teachers who seem to be enlightened but still are involved in the world.

SWAMIJI: Either they are not really involved and you have a wrong notion about them, or they are not enlightened. One of the two it is. Either you are making a wrong judgement about them and they may be really enlightened, or they are not enlightened. There are only two aspects of it.

Visitor: Can an enlightened person do something bad?

SWAMIJI: Our outlook of life has to be properly oriented. What do you mean by good, and what do you mean by bad? That has to be clear to the mind first, before you make any judgement. Your ideas of good and bad may be conditioned by certain factors which are delimited. You may not have a cosmic view of things. So, whatever judgement you make may not be complete. It may be partial. That is one aspect of the matter.

Visitor: Can a person lose his enlightenment? Can they fall?

SWAMIJI: A person who is really enlightened cannot fall. It is like saying a person who has woken up will sleep again. If you have already woken up from sleep, will you sleep again? It is not possible, because you have already woken up. If you again go to sleep, it means that you have not fully woken up. You are still half sleeping. You have to define what you mean by "enlightenment." It is like waking up from sleep. You are asking whether a man who has woken up can sleep again. Why will he sleep? He has already woken up. Otherwise, he has not fully woken up; he is half dozing.

Visitor: What is morality?

SWAMIJI: You have to become a disciple of a Guru and learn. Even a clever man cannot understand it. We have got political definitions, social definitions. Anything that is good for your country is moral – is it correct? It is one definition, but it is not the whole truth.

Anything that is good for your family is good, moral. But, still it is not the whole truth. Anything that is good for your little family may not be good for the whole nation. So, your morality is delimited here. Anything that is good for your little country may not be good for the whole world; there, also, your morality is delimiting. So, what do you mean by "morality"? You have to judge it from the context.

It is like medicine. What do you mean by "medicine"? You cannot name the medicine for any particular illness, unless you know what kind of illness it is. If you say that you want medicine, they will ask what kind of illness. Then only, a medicine will be prescribed. So, your idea of morality depends upon the circumstances of your existence physically, intellectually, socially, psychologically, and politically. So, there is no off-hand answer to a question like that. Cut-and-dried answers we cannot give to such questions. Everything is conditional and relative.

Suppose somebody says, "Is it good to cut off the hand of a person?" You say that it is very bad, but suppose you are a surgeon and you are amputating a person's hand. Is it good? So, is cutting off the hand good or bad? There again, the question is relative. So, all questions bring a relative answer; under conditions, circumstances, and exigencies you will know what is proper.

Finally, that only can be called good which will directly or indirectly help you in reaching God. That only can be called good. It may be not directly useful, but indirectly, at least. You have to judge yourself: is it going to help you in any way, indirectly, at least, in reaching the Absolute? Then it is perfectly right – nothing wrong with it.

It is said that a person who is starving and about to die can even steal food, though you cannot say that stealing is good. Suppose there is a mentally demented person who is brandishing a sword in his hand, and you silently go behind him and steal that sword from his hand. Have you done a good thing, or a wrong thing? So, stealing is not always bad. You cannot answer any question in an absolute fashion. They are relative and conditional.

Drinking brandy is very bad, but suppose a person has fallen from a tree and become unconscious. You can pour a spoon of brandy into his mouth, and he will wake up. Is drinking brandy good or bad? Here, also, it is conditional. Every question has to be put carefully, and the answer also has to be given accordingly.

Visitor: Swamiji, would you say that anything was immoral if it had a harmful effect on other people?

SWAMIJI: It has nothing to do with "other" people. It is people in general, because you are also "other people" to certain others. For people who are other than you, you are an "other people." So, what do you mean by "other people?" There are no "other people" in the world. Everyone is equal to others. To me, you are an "other," and to you, I am an "other." When you say "other people," who are the other people? Everybody is "other people" only. What do you say?

You have to use the word carefully. You mean everybody. By "other people" you include yourself, also. You are also other people. So anything good for everybody is good. Don't say "other people." Anything that is good for everybody is fine, and you have to judge for yourself what is good for everybody. Be careful.

The best thing is not to judge quickly. There is a wise saying, "Judge not, lest ye be judged." You will be judged in the same manner as you judge others. The world is made in that way. Whatever you think of other people, that others will think about you, and whatever you do to others will be done to you. So, "do unto others as you would be done by." This is the ethics of the highest type. If you want to know what morality is, you can say it in this one sentence: "Do unto others as you would be done by." That is all.

Visitor: Rituals?

SWAMIJI: Images, idols, pictures, portraits, whatever it is, are as good as anything else. As every part is organically connected to the whole, you can contact the whole through any part. The worship of God through ritual is equivalent to trying to contact Him by means of visible manifestations. This is one stage of religion, or spirituality. But if your mind is vast enough to comprehend the total whole in one grasp, there is no need of touching parts. You can touch the total at one stroke. Otherwise, it is better to go slowly, stage by stage. So here is the relevance of ritual for enlightenment.

Visitor: What about after enlightenment?

SWAMIJI: After enlightenment means after reaching God. This is what you mean?

Visitor: Right. After realising the Self.

SWAMIJI: No, no. Go slowly. Are you realising God or the Self? What are you going to realise?

Visitor: God – the Self with a big "S."

SWAMIJI: Now, you see, after realising God, what happens?

Visitor: What is the relationship of practices after realising God?

SWAMIJI: When you realise God, what happens to you, actually? What will be your status in the condition of the realisation of God? What will happen to you, actually? Do you have an idea about it?

Visitor: It is not that you reach anything.

SWAMIJI: When you reach God, what will happen to you?

Visitor: Then there is no other. Everything is emptiness, or fullness.

SWAMIJI: There is no other.

Visitor: Right.

SWAMIJI: And, you will see only yourself. If you are seeing only yourself, no question will arise afterwards. Who will put the question? To whom? You are putting a question because you are seeing another. And you have already said that there is no "another." So, who will put the question? The question ceases. You will be doing there the same thing which God is doing. And, what is God doing just now? That you will be doing, whatever it be. Inasmuch as you have still maintained a little psychological distance between yourself and God, you are raising this question. If you have actually merged in God, you will not raise a question like that. Already you have asserted that there is no other. What will happen to you, and what will you do after realising God? You will do exactly the same thing as God is doing. Tell me what God is doing.

Visitor: Everything.

SWAMIJI: Then you will be doing the same thing.

Visitor: Another analogy can be: what happens to the river when it merges in the ocean?

Contd....

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta