Author Topic: Thought of urges while meditating.  (Read 13021 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2012, 07:20:47 PM »
Dear Tushnim,

1. When you are a new born baby, just a few hours old, how do that baby seek her mother's breast for feeding?
Does the baby know that she is his mother? It comes spontaneously

2. How does a baby love his father? Who told him that he is his father. Does  the baby know that he is born out
of his sperm, It   is the mother, who introduces the baby his father? Here again, love is spontaneous, whether
the object is with form  or formless!

3. In a group of cows, there  is one blind calf. How does it identity its mother cow? Does anyone say the blind calf
that so and so is its mother. It is all spontaneous, involuntary,, out of inner - rather indescribable feeliing.

So also with the Self  or God, A man develops a natural involuntary love fol God or the  Self. Unless one in later years
is indoctrinated that there is no God.

Even if a person says that he does not believe in God, there must have been a teacher for him to say so. So for him
that teacher is his god.

The Self need not have a form., It is experiential. Experience is natural.   

Suppose you meet with a minor accident. You immediately cry Oh God! Oh God! How do you say that? There is a power
that has made you escape the minor accident with some  injuries.
So Self need not have a form. It can be experienced.

Arunachala Siva.

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2012, 11:45:58 AM »
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The Self need not have a form., It is experiential. Experience is natural. 


To me self is what remains - when every experience dies. I do not experience anything when I am in deep sleep - not even self. But when mind comes alive in the morning it interprets what happened "as an experience" and says "I was happy asleep". But when mind was not present - there is no experience - there is just the being

Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2012, 11:58:06 AM »
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if i wake u up from deep sleep , u will say "u disturbed me, i was happy", is it about the current state or the previous state sir ?
was there an experience or not ?
please tell me sir, when experience is not there, if there is Self, how do you know its there sir?

yes - your mind is capable of interpreting past, present and future with LOGIC. So when you wake up, the mind and brain works together to analyze the situation that I was present yesterday. I am present now. So I must have been present in between. What happened in between I dont know, but I am feeling good now. So what happened in between must have been good. Body also pitches in and says YES to this conclusion - because body says I am relieved of all tired and pain, so what happened in between was good. Does anyone ever experience happiness while in sleep :)? It is only after you wake up that you feel happiness.
Salutations to Bhagawan

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2012, 12:04:29 PM »
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when u just woke up, and felt disturbed, and u said "i was happy"
were u comparing with yesterday or just a few mins back ?
how did that happen sir?

Sir - my answer was for this. Mind's ability to do this - whether past, present of future - stitching gaps in mind's existence thru interpretations etc.
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sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2012, 01:13:34 PM »
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Do you agree that you were "Present" in deep sleep sir?

Tushnim - I started with saying this. Presence is not experiential. You dont need to "experience" to be present. So self is not experiential. It is being.
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sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2012, 01:33:44 PM »
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but how is "I AM" known then


Can you explain what you mean by "known"? Can you elaborate how does something becomes known? How do you "know" something? Using what?

Sanjay
« Last Edit: September 27, 2012, 01:56:39 PM by sanjaya_ganesh »
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Subramanian.R

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2012, 02:16:49 PM »
Dear sanjaya,

I have given in some other context:  How does a three old child 'know' its father? How does the child develop love for its
father? It is the mother, who shows the father to the child and then say: This is your father!  The child trusts its mother and
starts knowing father and with father's love and compassion begins to love its father too.

Here Mother is Guru. Like wise the guru shows you what is 'I am.'  We also know 'I am' innately. Nevertheless, the Guru
has to make it known for us. In the same way, our real nature, 'I am' (asmitha in Sanskrit) is made known by Guru.       

This 'I am" is  inherent. In a crowd, if I ask 'where is Sanjay?' you come near me and point out your right chest with your
hand and say, 'I am Sanjay". This natural tendency is there for all people in the world, wherever they are.

The important thing is that one should not only know I am but also realize it. This happens due to Guru's Grace.

Arunachala Siva.   

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2012, 02:21:24 PM »
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Mind.

How do you know when you are present in deep sleep - Does this Mind tell you? Does Mind, Body and Brain tell you anything in deep sleep? If not, then what is present there?

Sanjay
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Subramanian.R

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2012, 02:31:48 PM »
Dear Sanjay,

Knowing is just becoming knowledgeable about it. It is like knowing milk is a white liquid and is sweet. Realizing it
is tasting a cup of sweet milk. That latter happens due to Guru's Grace.

Arunachala Siva. 

ksksat27

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2012, 02:40:37 PM »
Hello,

When meditating on the I and from where does the I spring, the mind often drifts off, as I watch my thoughts and see them wonder into painful memories or urges of destructive behavior ( drinking alcohol which I have quit and had struggle and urges, physical fighting, arguments, guilt or imagining destructive situations of the future which have not happened) is it correct for me to question "who is thinking this and suffering" and then " I am" and then "who am I and where does this I come from" correct ? I sometimes feel like I am over run by thought. As soon as I come back to the I the mind constantly finds another painful thought over and over which makes it hard to remain in the I. I have lived a lot of my life with the ego mind running a muck with destructive behavior and destructive outcomes to situations and have significantly changed my life over the last few years from addiction and destruction to a life now which I do not stray to objects of the senses or any confrontation. I now live very simple and try to find peace in all situations which has changed a lot of physical destructive situations which i am grateful for the physical situation , but I feel On the inside the mind always rises with destructive thoughts which bring inner pain.
 I am aware after reading the path of Sri ramana that attending to the first person is equal to committing suicide.

It just seems like I am not understanding the technique of searching for the "i" and don't feel as I am commuting suicide of the ego. Is this because the method I have used in self enquiry as I stated in the above paragraph is in correct and I have misunderstood what it means to turn to first person. Or are these thoughts something I must consistently fight on my inner journey?
Will these thoughts disappear before I reach enlightenment or will I have to learn to put up with them ?
I feel it will be a much more peaceful inner journey if they never arise.


Dear sir,

What you are telling it seems this has to do with the anxiety and pessimistic thoughts of future happenings.

I need to ask few questions from you to understand what is going in inside you.

For a moment ,  put aside this self enquiry,  please answer me the following

i) do you feel that you are surrounded by uncertain and often catroscopic events of future that constantly provokes fear and restlessness in you?

do you feel you unwantedly always live in a constant state of inner mental pain and anxiety?

The best medicine for the above symptoms is that you invite them to come to the forefront at every second.

Once they come to the forefront ,  watch it very closely ,  do nothing about it, let them dance as long as they could. Then temprarily they will leave.  Next time,  if they again raise,  please dont try to control them but put a brave face watching them again with the same intensity.


By careful awareness and watching,  over a period of time,  these anxiety thoughts will find it futuile to again and again raise just to be watched by your awareness.

They will slowly start leaving you.

Do self enquiry only if mind is relatively peaceful.  If you feel like thoughts are all surrouding you very crazily in large numbers,  it is better to do this watchfulnesss method and try to atleast calm down the thoughts before you start self enquiry.

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2012, 02:50:08 PM »
Tushnim
That's exactly what I am asking you?  Guess you got it. I Is not mind or body or brain.
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sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2012, 11:56:16 AM »
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its memory again that has the gap.
the gap in memory is filled up.

Great. What is it that remains when memory does not exist in deep sleep? What is it that exists when memory is not present, mind is not present, body is not present, brain is not present? perhaps like in deep sleep? Whatr is it that exists while we are inside that "gap" :)

Sanjay
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sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2012, 12:18:36 PM »
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Please tell me how important is knowing this. What is your view.

Tushnim - Contemplating and going into this is important - no more important than so much more of Advaitha "jnana" around. It starts from knowledge (Jnana). As Jnana Vijnana Yogam goes. Vijnana has to follow. But Jnana is important without which what is the Vijnana you will go after?

Sanjay
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sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2012, 12:33:59 PM »
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sir plz explain how to conteplate on this.
and how this is different from vijnana.
also plz explain what a person will lose if he does not know this.

Tushnim - There is no words to explain how you should contemplate. No one method. You have to find your own. But if you know where to reach, one can find the path. Jnana is important because when you travel from Bangalore to Delhi, you should know that you need to Reach Delhi and how to find if you have reached Delhi etc (Jnana). Once you know this, you will find the way (Vijnana). The route and way I take may not be same as what you take.

Not at all important for a person to know and take this journey, if you are ALWAYS Happy. The reason we are all here is we find there is something that can give us eternal peace and happiness. if you already have that (And how to you judge it - I have a thumb rule - imagine you are in death bed and taking last breath - will you do that with eternal peace with no resistance or fear or anxiety or what not?), then no need to come this way and take this path. Simple...

Sanjay
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sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2012, 01:02:36 PM »
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when its me, where is the distance sir to travel ?

Glad you found that. That is it - "Summa Iru".

Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan