Author Topic: Thought of urges while meditating.  (Read 9389 times)

right2be

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Thought of urges while meditating.
« on: September 17, 2012, 06:15:19 AM »
Hello,

When meditating on the I and from where does the I spring, the mind often drifts off, as I watch my thoughts and see them wonder into painful memories or urges of destructive behavior ( drinking alcohol which I have quit and had struggle and urges, physical fighting, arguments, guilt or imagining destructive situations of the future which have not happened) is it correct for me to question "who is thinking this and suffering" and then " I am" and then "who am I and where does this I come from" correct ? I sometimes feel like I am over run by thought. As soon as I come back to the I the mind constantly finds another painful thought over and over which makes it hard to remain in the I. I have lived a lot of my life with the ego mind running a muck with destructive behavior and destructive outcomes to situations and have significantly changed my life over the last few years from addiction and destruction to a life now which I do not stray to objects of the senses or any confrontation. I now live very simple and try to find peace in all situations which has changed a lot of physical destructive situations which i am grateful for the physical situation , but I feel On the inside the mind always rises with destructive thoughts which bring inner pain.
 I am aware after reading the path of Sri ramana that attending to the first person is equal to committing suicide.

It just seems like I am not understanding the technique of searching for the "i" and don't feel as I am commuting suicide of the ego. Is this because the method I have used in self enquiry as I stated in the above paragraph is in correct and I have misunderstood what it means to turn to first person. Or are these thoughts something I must consistently fight on my inner journey?
Will these thoughts disappear before I reach enlightenment or will I have to learn to put up with them ?
I feel it will be a much more peaceful inner journey if they never arise.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 06:22:07 AM by ivac_d »

Subramanian.R

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2012, 11:57:24 AM »
Dear ivac_d,

Your experiences during meditation are not peculiar to you alone. Everyone has got similar experiences..

While meditating, thoughts about happening of the past come to the mind. Thoughts about what we should do in future
come the mind. If nothing else, you suddenly get a thought of taking a cup of tea or coffee. Or thoughts about attending
to nature's call.  Or thoughts that are caused by external hindrances, a telephone ringing; or door bell ringing. Many many
thoughts do come. It goes only by continuous practice.

Once some one asked Sri Bhagavan: 'What should I do if a mosquito bites me during meditation?

Sri Bhagaavan said: You can swat the mosquito and then continue the meditation. Just because you swat the mosquito,
you will not go to hell.  Or you can leave it and just because you leave it  you will  not get moksha!  The best meditation is
not to be aware of a mosquito sitting  on your  body at all!

Pearls of wisdom!

Arunachala Siva.

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2012, 01:09:48 PM »
Dear Sri ivac_d,

Welcome to the Ultimate and Straight Path of Atma-Vichara or the Self-enquiry, as taught Bhagwan Sri Ramana.
 In deep sleep you are absolutely free from the rising thoughts. Why? Because the ‘I’-thought is absent. The moment the ‘I’-thought rises on waking, all other thoughts rise and rush out spontaneously. Sri Bhagwan Ramana has therefore taught that the wisest thing for one to do is to catch hold of this leading and the primal thought, the ‘I’-thought, and dissect it ,’who and what it is’, thereby giving no room to other thoughts to distract one. Sri Bhagwan says that there lies the value of the Enquiry and its efficacy in mind control. If thus the thinker, or the ‘I’-thought, or the ego, withholds his attention from the rising thoughts or challenges them before they have chance to develop, they are sure to die of starvation. You challenge them by repeatedly asking yourself ‘Who am I? Who is the person who is having all these thoughts?’ In this way, you will be gradually able to challenge the rising thought before it has chance to develop into a stream of thoughts.
Sri Bhagwan has taught that during Enquiry or meditation, rise of thoughts is natural. The hidden thoughts will come out only to be destroyed by the twin swords of Vichara.
Dear Sri ivac_d, Sri Bhagwan gave us the analogy of a besieged fort. If all the entrances to such a fort is systematically sealed, and then the occupants of the fort is picked off one by one and slain, sooner or later the fort will be empty. How to apply this analogy to the mind?
Seal off all entrances and exits to the mind by not reacting to the rising thoughts or sense impressions. Don’t let new ideas , judgements, likes and dislikes, etc. enter the mind, and don’t let these rising thoughts flourish and escape your attention. When you have done this, challenge each emerging thought as it appears by asking, ‘Where from and to whom’ to bring back the attention to dwell on yourself and maintain the Self-attention. Also remember that there are not two selves.
If you can do this continuously, with full attention, new thoughts may appear temporarily but it will disappear as it will rise. If this  siege to the mind is maintained for sufficient time, a time will surely come when no more thoughts will arise and if they arise, they will sure be fleeting and mere undistracting images on the periphery of consciousness. When one thus becomes thought-free, one experiences oneself as consciousness rather than the body and the mind.

However, if you relax vigilance even for a few moments and allow new thoughts to escape your attention and develop unchallenged, the siege is lifted and the mind will regain its former tendency to wander and graze outside to sense-objects, as you have mentioned in your post.

You are here. It itself implies you have touch of the Grace. Therefore, having faith in the Guru within, pursue the Enquiry without doubt whatever with perseverance.  That is the key to success in Enquiry.

Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil
 
       

Jewell

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2012, 02:03:50 PM »
Dear Ivac_d, It is very natural that these thoughts and tendencies arize,but with time,and preservance,like Sri Anil said,they will lose its grip. These thoughts are the ego itself,and thats the way of the ego,to fight. Look on that like some sort of cleaning process. You said one very importang thing,"I watch my thoughts and see them wonder.". You watch them,and i think You should keep doing that. You watch them,and see Who is watching. That is self enquiry. And it is a 'suicide',but it is going bit by bit,and these same thoughts are ego way to fight,because you are 'killing' it. You may also try to listen some devotional music,mantras,read,what ever you like in the mean time. Just be patient,and dont bother about thoughts,when they come You watch them,they come again,You watch them,dont fight,just bring Your attention back,and sure they will go. Wish You the Very Best!

Vinod

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2012, 02:33:16 PM »
Just be patient,and dont bother about thoughts,when they come You watch them,they come again,You watch them,dont fight,just bring Your attention back,and sure they will go. Wish You the Very Best!

Dear Jewell well said!

Dear Ivac,

As mentioned by Jewell, these kinda thoughts arise, which are natural but the main job is here. Who u are? u are the self, which is permanent. So when ever there are distractions, dont succumb to it and get demotivated, just try to get back to the focus on "I". With continuous effort you will win the battle and remember with out hard work or effort, one can never yield any fruits.

The best tip when ever there are distractions is "mind is doing its work, let it do its work". When u think this, u will apply less pressure on mind there by letting it free to be silent and the more you control the mind, the more it gets distracted with thoughts. This is what I follow and it works for me. This may apply on case to case basis but not for every one. 

OM ARUNAACHALESHWARAAYA NAMAHA!
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 07:30:26 PM by Vinod »

right2be

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2012, 05:49:01 AM »
Thank you all very much, I feel like I was fighting with my thoughts and it was causing a lot of confusion and frustration.

After practicing with the methods you have all mentioned I already feel more peaceful through meditation and can watch my thoughts and have them pass going back to the I.
It feels like I was creating all the confusion and frustration.

Thank you Sri's for helping to bring these to my attention.

Namaste.

cefnbrithdir

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2012, 03:26:26 PM »

Dear Anil

"Welcome to the Ultimate and Straight Path of Atma- Vichara....You challenge them (rising thoughts) by repeatedly asking yourself "Who am I ?" Who is the person who is having all these thoughts..."

It could well be that we are all understanding the same thing but there is the doubt that we are not or going down the wrong path and that is where it seems these slight differences in words - and critically our reaction to them - can make a difference.

I know this is not an intellectual exercise but I still find it difficult to think about the thought "Who am I ?"

In "Nan Yar"  - which I understand is literally "I am who ?" - you see even that could make a difference in how your response ! - and in Michael James commentary  we have

"This practice of jnana- vichara is described by Sri Ramana in verse 19 of Upades Undiyar:

    When [we] scrutinise within [ourself] 'what is the place in which it [our mind] rises as I ' [this false] 'I' will die. This [alone] is jnana- vichara.

James continues

" What Sri Ramana describes in this verse as our ezhum idam, the 'rising place' or source of our mind or finite sense of 'I' , is our own essential self, our adjunct-free consciousness 'I am'. When we scrutinise our essential self-conscious being, 'I am' which is the source from which our limited adjunct-bound 'I' rises, this "I will die", that is, will cease to exist as such, because we will discover that it is truly nothing other than our adjunct-free self-consciousness."

This fits well with me but I appreciate that I am more  scutinising a source rather than asking anything. It does become clear  that any other focus of mind - any other thoughts - is a distraction from this.

( I come from a Christian background; Bhagavan has illumined Jesus's teaching so much for me, but so wishing to convey this to others I am constantly forming sermons in my mind in an effort to explain this in some imagined forum. There may be worse things for my mind to be thinking about  but ultimately I know that  this too is a great distraction and needs more discipline. Indeed it is all Ego ! I did then think that this too is a forum....... I suppose a type of lectio divina but it needs its place.  Of course it could be that this is how I am eventually meant to use my mind - but this is when there being no sense of doership makes all the difference).


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2012, 03:59:31 PM »
Quote from Sri cefnbrithdir:
”This fits well with me but I appreciate that I am more  scutinising a source rather than asking anything. It does become clear  that any other focus of mind - any other thoughts - is a distraction from this.”

Dear Sri Cefnbrithdir,

Yes. This, in my view, is a wonderful understanding of the Self-enquiry as taught by Bhagwan Sri Ramana.

Thanks very much.
Pranam,
  Anil



deepa

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2012, 10:30:37 PM »

ivac_d
Even in a matter of 3-4 months, just the act of watching your thoughts will drastically reduce the flow of thoughts. I started doing it in the morning immediately after waking up. After 10-15 mins, I see thoughts almost completely subside. Also, as Bhagawan teaches, the next step after watching thoughts is to focus on the 'watcher'.. who is watching the thoughts. You get the still feeling.. it is powerful. All stillness.

Now, the task is to always be in this state while even being active in worldly matters. I am not able to do that yet.
Deepa

Subramanian.R

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2012, 08:01:43 AM »
Dear deepa,

With your progress in the sadhana, keeping in Self abidance even during work situations, will happen surely in due course.

Arunachala Siva.   

deepa

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2012, 08:20:21 AM »
Subramanian-ji
Thanks and I hope what you say comes true.

Another problem is the peace during meditation or the calmness while listening to lectures is so elevating that I am finding it hard to focus on work (especially in the office). Working in corporate roles just for a company's profits seem like a waste of time :( I know this is not the right attitude and one has to do swadharma without likes and dislikes, but am finding my thoughts constantly going to what I heard in the lectures rather than on work. Did you all face this and how did you overcome this?

Pranams
Deepa


Subramanian.R

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2012, 02:03:58 PM »
Dear deepa,

Just because you become disinterested in office work, you should not throw it away . In the modern days, work and income
therefrom are also necessary. But over a period of time, the office work will remain at slightly  lower than the Awareness.

Arunachala Siva.

deepa

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2012, 02:36:51 AM »
Tushnim-ji

I agree with you theoretically.
My guru here reminded me
yogarathova bhogarathova sangarathova sanga viheenah
yasyad brahmani ramathe chiththam nandhati nandhati nadhathyeva.
He said even a party can become a puja room with the right attitude.

It is my weakness that I am not able to do it yet. Need more contemplation and practice.
Deepa

Subramanian.R

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2012, 12:49:50 PM »
Dear Tushnim.,

Sri Bhagavan said: Desiring the Self is the only desire we can have.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Thought of urges while meditating.
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2012, 06:13:31 PM »
Desire is constant Love for the Self within. Leaving all the desires for the world and people, gold and land, having only this
Love for the Self.

Arunachala Siva.