Author Topic: Divine poetry and thoughts  (Read 1523880 times)

Subramanian.R

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Re: Divine poetry and thoughts
« Reply #1170 on: March 04, 2013, 11:00:42 AM »
Dear Anil, silentgreen,

To appreciate the depth of the poems of Tagore and others is one things  But the fact remains that they were not like
Jnanis, like Thyagaraja, Purandaradasa and Manikkavachagar. Tagoe's poems can be loved by all Bengalis and even others.
But to place him on the pedestal of Jnana Bodham is something too much. 


Anyway, I am of this view. I do not know about others. I am saying this because  I have also read their poems.

Arunachala Siva.     

Ravi.N

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Re: Divine poetry and thoughts
« Reply #1171 on: March 04, 2013, 11:07:55 AM »
Anil/silentgreen/jewell/friends,
Everything is the glory of god and he who has that supreme gift to capture it for us is worthy of our adoration and deep respect.This is what Lord Sri Krishna has wonderfully expounded in Chapter X ,Vibhuti yoga.
All these poets are supremely gifted and are as such emissaries of god-birds of paradise.We will be very poor in spirit if we are not in a position to appreciate their poems and songs.
Coming to Rabindranath Tagore,what a great poet and what a supreme gift!Bengali is one of the sweetest of languages.
Here is a wonderful tagore song ,and this has been portrayed in the bengali film charulata by Satyajit Ray,one of the Greatest of film directors with international acclaim:

Ami chini go chini tomare o go videshini
Tumi thaako shindhu paare o go videshini
Dekhechi sharodo-praate tomar
Dekhechi madhobi-raate tomar
Dekhechi hride majhare
O go videshini
Ami aakashe patiya kaan
Sunechi sunechi tomare gaan
Ami tomare sopechi praan
O go videshini
Bhubhon bhramiya sheshe
Ami ayeshechi nooton deshe
Ami otithi tomare daare
O go videshini
Ami chini go chini tomare
O go videshini

I know you,I know you,Oh Lady from a Foreign Land
you live in a land afar,Oh Lady from a foreign land;
I saw you on a autumn Dawn,I beheld you in the Night adorn
I saw you in the depth of my heart,Oh Lady from a Foreign land.
I tune my ears to the sky,and listen,listen to your songs!
I offer my soul to you,Oh Lady from foreign land.
I travel across the sea of this land(earth),to arrive at a new land
I am a guest at your doorstep,Oh Lady from a foreign land!
I Know you,I know you,Oh Lady from a Foreign Land!

Videshini-means lady from a foreign land,meaning the land of spirit.Mahakavi subramania Bharati calls this lady 'Kannamma'-the Darling!

Only a poet of Tagore's stature can dare to tell the Divine -'I am a guest at your doorsteps'!!!
Lesser souls can only long for the Divine to be a guest at their doorstep!

You may listen to Kishore kumar singing this wonderful song in the film charulata-the Waltz like tune goes very well with this Tagore's jewel of a song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HinFn8DWSo

Namaskar.

P.S:Just now happen to see Subramanian's post.Just to add that appreciating Thyagaraja and purandara dasa need not stand in the way of appreciating the wonderful poems of the other great poets.
In fact Thyagaraja,Muthusamy dikshitar appreciated the English bands playing scottish tunes and they have composed songs in these tunes!Muthusamy dikshitar's nottuswara krithis have this scottish melodies incorporated!one such song is shakti sahita ganapathim,sankarAdhi sevitham-which we would have heard children singing.

Ravi.N

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Re: Divine poetry and thoughts
« Reply #1172 on: March 04, 2013, 03:29:38 PM »
udai,
I will briefly mention here what a vibhuti is-it means a special manifestation.
Here are a couple of excerpts from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

Quote
Sri Ramakrishna was about to take his leave.
MASTER (to Nanda): "According to the Gita a man who is honoured and respected by
many people possesses a special power of God. You have divine power
."
NANDA: "All men have the same power."
Different degrees of divine manifestation
MASTER (sharply): "You all say the same thing. Can all men ever possess power to the
same degree? God no doubt dwells in all beings as the all-pervading Spirit, but the
manifestations of His Power are different in different beings
.
"Vidyasagar, too, said the same thing. He said, 'Has God given some more power and some
less?' Thereupon I said to him: 'If there are not different manifestations of His Power, then
why have we come to see you? Have you grown two horns on your head?'"

Quote
The Master was highly pleased with the ostad's music. He said to the musician, "There is a
special manifestation of God's power in a man who has any outstanding gift, such as
proficiency in music
."
I will not be entering into any discussion with you on this subject.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Divine poetry and thoughts
« Reply #1173 on: March 04, 2013, 04:17:37 PM »
udai,
I am finding that most of your comments on the juvenile side,as is the one that you have just made.
Atma jnanam is not required for Moksha;Atma jnanam is moksha.This ofcourse has nothing at all do with appreciation of Poetry,although Love of arts and poetry will definitely help one to mature into a good Humanbeing.
Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Divine poetry and thoughts
« Reply #1174 on: March 04, 2013, 05:02:02 PM »
Dear all,

All these poets are gifted with great ability to compose poems. I have no quarrel. They have been manifested with this special
gifts and one can appreciate them. What I was driving home is the point that these poems will not confer them the Jnana Bodham,
nor we by merely reading and enjoying these poems will get Self Knowledge. Alexander Pope said: I lisped in numbers for numbers
came to me.  Yes, numbers (words and poetic formation of these words) came from God. But on that count alone Pope did
not evolve as a Brahma Jnani.

That is why Sri Bhagavan said, all capabilities to write poetry, excel in fine arts, etc., are mental activity.  But Self Knowledge
transcends the mind.

On the same count Bala Saraswati and Padma Subramanian are great dancers, a gift of
God but they have attained Jnanam of Brahman.

Sri Sankara gives a simile in Viveka Chudamani, "Just because a person is great Veena player, that expertise alone cannot make him
become a King. (give him the knowledge of the Self.)
   
Arunachala Siva.         

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Divine poetry and thoughts
« Reply #1175 on: March 04, 2013, 05:16:47 PM »
My humble opinion again - many times we discuss about who is a jnani. I think this is a futile discussion. A person writing beautiful poetry may or may not be a jnani. How does it matter to us? How can we be judges of it?

In Vibhuthi yoga terminology  - in beautiful poetry and poet - see me in action. In best dancers, see me in action. In best of the best singers - see me in action. When HE transcends everything - how can mental activity and dance and poetry be outside of it?

Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Subramanian.R

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Re: Divine poetry and thoughts
« Reply #1176 on: March 04, 2013, 05:27:24 PM »
Dear sanjay,

I did not say that a person writing beautiful poetry IS A JNANI OR NOT. What I tried to explain is that such great poets
cannot attain Jnana MERELY WITH THOSE BEAUTIFUL POETRY.

IF that is the case then Shakespeare should be the greatest Jnani. On the contrary, it is Plato and  Aristotle are great Jnanis.

Arunachala Siva.   

Ravi.N

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Re: Divine poetry and thoughts
« Reply #1177 on: March 04, 2013, 05:29:05 PM »
subramanian,
You seem to be sticking to your 'idea'.I do not see any reason why we should adore only 'jnanis' and not others.We do not adore others because we have to 'attain' something.We adore because something in us responds to what they say or do.The very nature of adoration is such that it subsides the 'struting' ego sense-and in this way opens us to the inflow of Grace.This is something that one can readily see and experience.No need for any elaborate discussion.The Poets featured here are no ordinary ones.
Please note that you made a similiar comment on Mahakavi bharati and now you are posting his poems!
These great ones do not require our approbation;it is we who have to be worthy and fortunate to be appreciative of their wonderful poems.
Brahma jnanis have appreciated these poems and here we are with our 'ideas'!I recall how Harindranath chattopadhyaya read his poems and how Sri Bhagavan appreciated them as mentioned in 'Day by Day with Bhagavan'.
TGN used to say that these poets Shakespeare,Blake,wordsworth,kannadasan ,Longfellow-they draw this inspiration from the Turiya state-This is why they draw the readers so compellingly.
This is how Sages themselves view these poems and here we are saying that they will not give us 'Moksha' or that these are not 'jnanis'!Why should they be Jnanis ,why cannot we view them as Bhaktas?Does it mean that we should not adore Bhaktas?Are we now beyond all this and have no need for this?
I find this arguement misplaced.
Namaskar


eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Divine poetry and thoughts
« Reply #1178 on: March 04, 2013, 05:44:49 PM »
Quote from Sri silentgreen:
“The depth and beauty of the poems of Rabindranath Tagore is such that one can devote his / her entire life in contemplating on them. God has given him special eyes to see the beauty and special language to express it. Those works in Bengali rich in rhyme and meaning cannot be adequately translated; like a Sanskrit sloka cannot be adequately translated.”

Quote from Sri Ravi:
“Coming to Rabindranath Tagore,what a great poet and what a supreme gift!Bengali is one of the sweetest of languages.
Here is a wonderful tagore song ,and this has been portrayed in the bengali film charulata by Satyajit Ray,one of the Greatest of film directors with international acclaim:”


Dear Sri silentgreen and Sri Ravi,

Dear Sri silentgreen, yes, the poems of the Sage-Poet, Sri Rabindranath Tagore, are rich in rhyme and pregnant with profound meaning, and therefore cannot be adequately translated as the Gita cannot be adequately translated. The version of the Gitanjali which won the first Noble prize for Literature for the country was translated by the Great Poet Himself on the advice and request of Sri Andrews who was a close associate of Mahatma Gandhi. I know a little Bengali and whenever I listen to the Rabindra Sangeet, I am spell-bound for a while. Thanks so much, dear Sri silentgreen. Your comment was timely, for it helped me overcome the grief Sri Subramanian inflicted by his comment.

Dear Sri Ravi, ji, yes, I have seen almost all Ray’s movies including Charulata. I even remember the song “Ami chini go chini tomare o go videshini” in the movie Charulata. I like his movies, such as ‘Ashini Sanket, Pathar Panchali, Nayak, Ghere Bahire, etc., most. Coming to the Sage-Poet Sri Tagore, I wish to only say that He is as enlightened as any poet I have ever known and what he means to us cannot be described in words and language. Discussing about Him is like showing a lamp to the sun. How anyone can make such derogatory comment on one of the greatest Poets this country has ever produced. Yes, I am aware that no poetry, no music, no fine arts, etc., can bestow Jnana irrespective of their authors. Self-enquiry or Surrender or proper sadhana as taught by a competent Guru only can end the ignorance and confer Jnana. Nothing else can. No poetry whatever. No music whatever. AT BEST THEY INSPIRE TO SCALE A GREAT HEIGHT AND REACH GOAL. Thanks very much, sir.

Pranam,
  Anil


 


Subramanian.R

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Re: Divine poetry and thoughts
« Reply #1179 on: March 04, 2013, 06:02:41 PM »
Dear Ravi,

I did not say that we should only adore Jnanis and not other poets with extraordinary talents of poetry. But what I am telling
that their extraordinary talents alone cannot confer them Atma Jnana. To be gifted with talents (again by God's grace) is one
thing and to attain Jnana is another thing. Regarding Subramanya Bharati also, I said that he wrote poems extraordinary insights,
but that did not make him a Jnani. Even today I adore Bharati for his poems.  But I cannot hold him on par with Sri Bhagavan or
Sri Ramakrishna or Sri Vivkekananda as the one who attained Jnana.

Anil says I have hurt his feelings. He is the man who has been writing that 'Self Inquiry as taught by Sri Bhagavan is enough' and
wrote thousands of posts on Him and Self inquiry. But today he feels that he is hurt by my statement that even great poets (whose
capabilities have come only through God's Grace) are not said to have attained Self Knowledge through those talents.

As Sri Sankara said: An expert Veena Vidwan, just because he was an expert with his instrument, cannot become a King.

Anyway, I propose to stop my posts on this topic. My views are clear. Let others have their views.

Arunachala Siva.     

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Divine poetry and thoughts
« Reply #1180 on: March 04, 2013, 06:12:46 PM »
Quote
We do not adore others because we have to 'attain' something.We adore because something in us responds to what they say or do.

Why should they be Jnanis ,why cannot we view them as Bhaktas?

Ravi - Two wonderful sentences you wrote above. Thanks. Need to "attain" is what is preventing us from moving forward - I always feel - because we see everything from the light of "can I attain thru this?" . It is like I tell my wife always - about these pyramid marketing people :) - anyone they say - they think not about relations, but about how can I sell to this person :) ?

Sanjay

Salutations to Bhagawan

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Divine poetry and thoughts
« Reply #1181 on: March 04, 2013, 06:29:58 PM »
Quote from Sri Subramanian Sir:
Poets like Keats, Wordsworth, Shelley, Tennyson and even Tagore basically glorify Nature, They are at best nature poets,'
perhaps with a glimpse of Self occasionally. Otherwise they are not Jnanis.

Keats, Wordswoth and others were only ordinary mortals like us, and not with any Self Knowledge. They cannot be compared
with Saint Thyagaraja, Raghavendra and others.

Hence there is no point in appreciating Keats and others.

.You call them as divine poetry not because they are divine but because they sing with divine grace. That is all.


It is not the case with Keats, Shelley and others.



Dear Sri Subramanian Sir,

No. That didn’t hurt me. What hurt were your above comments.  Anyway, I have found  great relief in Sri Ravi’s and Sri silentgreen’s posts and wisdom contained in them. I have now overcome the hurt and grief and this argument is now closed for me. I do not nurture any grievance for long against anybody. That is not my nature. Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil

Ravi.N

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Re: Divine poetry and thoughts
« Reply #1182 on: March 04, 2013, 06:42:26 PM »
Subramanian,

Quote
But what I am telling that their extraordinary talents alone cannot confer them Atma Jnana

I am not sure at all about whatever you have said.First and foremost,the poets were poets and never viewed their compositions as 'Talents' as you seem to view.This is where I differ;instead I  view them as 'Gift' of God and infact this is how Great Sages have viewed these compositions.If they are 'Gifts' from God,they have inherent potency to invoke the presence of God-whether this is 'Jnana' or 'ajnana' is besides the point.On the other hand,I would say that 'Jnana' is also not an 'Attainment'.So,if the poetry of these gifted ones cannot confer jnana,nothing else that we do otherwise can also confer it!It is clear that we cannot take such a utilitarian view of these wonderful gifts.It is per se a futile and narrow perspective.

Here is a clear excerpt from 'The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna':

Quote
They talked about Trailokya's music. Trailokya sang devotional songs in Keshab's Brahmo
Samaj.
MASTER: "Ah! How nice his songs are!"
RAM: "Do you think they are genuine?"
MASTER: "Yes, they are. Otherwise, why should I be so drawn to them?"

This is how Great ones view the compositions.

As regards your comment:
Quote
"Even today I adore Bharati for his poems.  But I cannot hold him on par with Sri Bhagavan or
Sri Ramakrishna or Sri Vivkekananda as the one who attained Jnana"

This is only admiration and has nothing to do with adoration.Adoration does not admit any comparison.Adoration does not evaluate the attainment,stature of the 'object' of adoration.Adoration is where the adorer dissolves himself.Admiration is a thing of the mind whereas adoration is a thing of the Heart.

Most important,one may adore the poems and need not bring in the attainment of the poet,painter or Dancer!Adoration is where one stands dissolved.It depends on us and not on these poets!

Namaskar.


silentgreen

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Re: Divine poetry and thoughts
« Reply #1183 on: March 04, 2013, 06:50:33 PM »
Dear Anil,

As far as my exposure to poetry is concerned, I have never come across poems so beautiful as that of Rabindranath Tagore. Like Sri Krishna gave special eyes to Arjuna to see His Viswarupa, God has also given special eyes and sensitivity to Sri Rabindranath Tagore.

Yes, Rabindranath Tagore cannot be seated on a pedestal with anybody. For him, a completely new pedestal needs to be created.
Homage to the Universal Being...Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ... Om Shanti ...

atmavichar100

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Re: Divine poetry and thoughts
« Reply #1184 on: March 04, 2013, 06:58:26 PM »
My humble opinion again - many times we discuss about who is a jnani. I think this is a futile discussion. A person writing beautiful poetry may or may not be a jnani. How does it matter to us? How can we be judges of it?

In Vibhuthi yoga terminology  - in beautiful poetry and poet - see me in action. In best dancers, see me in action. In best of the best singers - see me in action. When HE transcends everything - how can mental activity and dance and poetry be outside of it?

Sanjay

 :)

However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha