Author Topic: Bhagawan and ThirArutpa of Rama Linga Swamigal  (Read 6227 times)

atmavichar100

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Bhagawan and ThirArutpa of Rama Linga Swamigal
« on: August 22, 2012, 05:12:18 PM »
To my best knowledge I have never heard Bhagawan talking much about Ramalinga Swamigal or about Thiru Arutpa .Any inputs on the same ?
I found lot of similarities between Ramalinga Swamigal ( Vallalar ) and Bhagawan.
1) Both Never Had a formal Guru
2) Both never wore Saffron and wore white
3) Both addressed God as Father ( Bhagawan : Father Arunachala , Vallalar : Arutperum Jyothi Andavar )
4) Both are considered as Incarnations of Lord Subramanya
5) Both have similar Maha Mantra :
Bhagawan : Arunacaha Siva Arunachala Siva , Arunachala Siva , Arunachala
Vallalar : Arutperun Jyothi , Arutperum Jyoti , Thani Perum Karunai , Arutperum Jyothi
6) Both of them composed great works in Tamil
7) Both did not give importance to any ritualistic worship .

These are my own opinions . I love both Vallalar and Bhagwan and love the songs composed by both of them .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagawan and ThirArutpa of Rama Linga Swamigal
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2012, 06:03:20 PM »
Dear atmavichar100,

Sri Bhagavan did not mention much about VaLLaLAr Ramalinga Swamigal, presumably because, the saint was a Saiva
Siddhanti and has prayed to many gods like Muruga, Siva and others in his works. Later his devotion matured into
meditating on a Light which he called Arut Perunjoti, Taniperum karuNai.  Whereas Sri Bhagavan was an Advaitin,
and that too more inclined to self inquiry for Advaitic experience, where there is nothing but the Self. Tayumanavar
was different, he was an advaitin.  This could perhaps be the reason.

In fact, in Talks, there is no reference about Ramalinga Swamigal in any conversation.

VaLLaLAr has however written one essay on the first verse of Ozhivil Odukkam, which is an advaitic work. He says that
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar was his guru in that essay.

Arunachala Siva.

atmavichar100

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Re: Bhagawan and ThirArutpa of Rama Linga Swamigal
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2012, 06:10:19 PM »
Quote
VaLLaLAr has however written one essay on the first verse of Ozhivil Odukkam, which is an advaitic work. He says that
Tiru Jnana Sambandhar was his guru in that essay.

Subramaniam Sir
Thanks for ur reply . I do aware of Vallar writing some commentary on Ozhivil Odukkam but it was incomplete . Have u studied it ? What is ur opinion on the same ?

This is what I found about Ozhivil Odukkam in David Godman's blog reply :
Quote
There is no complete translation of Ozhivil Odukkam online, or even in print. A partial translation by Jayaram appeared in The Mountain Path a few years ago. Kanakammal has been giving talks on the work in her home over the last year or so. I have been told that some of these explanations will be published, but I don't know when.

When I went through the ashram archives about twenty-five years ago I found a complete translation by Munagala Venkataramaiah, the complier of Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi. I showed it to Prof. Swaminathan who advised me not to publish it.

After perusing a few of the verses he said, 'Munagala's Tamil scholarship was not good enough to tackle this work.'

It really is a very difficult text. Remember, Munagala was Bhagavan's Tamil interpreter in the hall for many years and had a good grounding in Vedanta and Sanskrit.

We (Venkatasubramanian, Robert Butler and myself) translated three verses which will appear in the notes of our new version of Guru Vachaka Kovai. They are:

2 If the Sadguru did not cast his glance upon him, bringing him to absolute stillness, free of all distress, just as a majestic lion appears in the dream of a rutting elephant, stopping it in its tracks, by the study of what [subjects] may he accomplish the loss of the ego-self?

60 The elephant, which is glorious even in its normal state, becomes yet more glorious when it goes into rut, but a dog which is lowly in its normal state will lose even more of its status when it goes mad. Similarly, if a jnani who is great even in his normal state transgresses prescribed limits of conduct through an excess of ecstasy, his new state will be even more glorious, but the one bound by karma will lose his already low status if he transgresses prescribed limits of conduct.

123 Having exhausted themselves by activities, aspirants come to the Guru seeking jnana. He alone is the true jnana-bestowing Guru who, possessing the wealth of bliss, produces the crop of bliss in them so that they wander without volition and without doing anything. But the Guru who occasions the least rising of their ego through his instructions is both Brahma, he who possesses the ability to create the world, and Yama too, the god of death.

Venkatasubramanian is by far the best and most accurate translator of old Tamil verses that I have worked with. Even he is disinclined to do the work.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 06:12:29 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagawan and ThirArutpa of Rama Linga Swamigal
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2012, 06:34:58 PM »
Dear atmavichar100,

Yes. There is no English translation of Ozhivil Odukkam. It is a tough Tamizh Vedantic work. Some articles have appeared in
Mountain Path issues giving reference to the book, by one J. Jayaraman.  For Tamizh prose translation, there are two books:

1. One published by Mullai Nilayam, Chennai, where you get Ramalingam Swamigal's initial prose translation of the verse 1.
It starts as VaLLal  Gururayan vAdhu venRa Sambandhan......The remaining translation has been done by Tiruporur
Chidambara Swamigal.

2. The second, quite recent publication, by one Mugavai Kanna Murugan Adimai, of Sri Ramana Satsangh, Chennai.
This is a detailed book which gives elaborate commentary.

Arunachala Siva.     

atmavichar100

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Re: Bhagawan and ThirArutpa of Rama Linga Swamigal
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2012, 06:37:57 PM »
Thanks for this input . Mugavai Kanna Murugan Adimai is a person well known to me and I will be in touch with him .I lost touch with him for the past 2 years and the last time I interacted with him was on this topic of Thiruvalluvar and Thiruarutpa and he told at that time he asked his brother who was visiting Vadalur to get a copy of Ozhvil Ozhukkam .I will be in touch with him for more details .

Om Peace .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagawan and ThirArutpa of Rama Linga Swamigal
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2012, 06:41:58 PM »
Dear atmavichar100,

1. You can get the first book by writing to Sri Ramana Bhakta Samajam, Post Office Road, West Mambalam, Chennai
600 033. It costs Rs 200 plus courier charges.

2. You can get the second one from Mullai Nilayam, 9 Bharati Nagar, I Stree, T. Nagar, Chennai 600 017. It costs
Rs 80 plus courier charges.

Arunachala Siva. 

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagawan and ThirArutpa of Rama Linga Swamigal
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2012, 08:26:20 AM »
Subramanian/Friends,

Quote
"Sri Bhagavan did not mention much about VaLLaLAr Ramalinga Swamigal, presumably because, the saint was a Saiva
Siddhanti and has prayed to many gods like Muruga, Siva and others in his works. Later his devotion matured into
meditating on a Light which he called Arut Perunjoti, Taniperum karuNai.  Whereas Sri Bhagavan was an Advaitin,
and that too more inclined to self inquiry for Advaitic experience, where there is nothing but the Self. Tayumanavar
was different, he was an advaitin.  This could perhaps be the reason"

Saiva Siddhanta is not any different than Advaita Vedanta.Thayumanavar acknowledged the 'Samarasa' -Equivalence and Harmony of these Systems.This is what he says:
In his Hymns on Siddhar Ganam,he says:

வேதாந்த சித்தாந்த சமரசநன் னிலைபெற்ற
      வித்தகச் சித்தர்கணமே

O! Thou of the Siddha Elite of Divine Light,
That have reached the Vedanta-Siddhanta accord high !

He refers to his Guru,the Silent one as having come in the lineage of Tirumoolar:

மந்த்ரகுரு வேயோக தந்த்ரகுரு வேமூலன்
       மரபில்வரு மௌன குருவே.

Oh! Mantra Guru! Oh, Yoga Tantra Guru!
Mauna Guru that comes in the line of Mula the Holy! "

As we know that The Great Sage Tirumoolar composed the Thirumanthiram which is also one of the cannons of Saiva Siddhanta philosophy.Yet,the Tirumanthiram encompasses karma,Bhakti,Yoga and Jnana as Advaita Vedanta does and is just not distinguishable from it.

Sri Bhagavan accepted and highly regarded this Tirumanthiram and advised its chanting to consecrate the samadhi of JnAnis like Mastan Swami.

It is quite likely that Sri Bhagavan may not have heard much about Sri Ramalinga Swami or might have not have said much on account of the Mystical nature of the Great Saint's compositions(Tiru Arut PA)which are beyond the ken of an average aspirant.

Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagawan and ThirArutpa of Rama Linga Swamigal
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2012, 02:00:14 PM »
Dear Ravi, and others,

Yes. Tirumandiram which is considered a Saiva Canon, speaks about Advaitic principles  in many many verses. Further,
the author Tirumoolar was also an adept in Yoga Sastra.

Here is a verse which reflects the Advaitic core philosophy:

Verse 2723:

Everywhere is the Holy Form
Everywhere is Siva Sakti
Everywhere is Chidambaram
Everywhere is the Divine Dance
As everywhere Siva is
Everywhere Siva's Grace is
All, all, His sport divine.

Arunachala Siva.   
 

atmavichar100

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Re: Bhagawan and ThirArutpa of Rama Linga Swamigal
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2012, 10:30:07 AM »
Dear atmavichar100,

Yes. There is no English translation of Ozhivil Odukkam. It is a tough Tamizh Vedantic work. Some articles have appeared in
Mountain Path issues giving reference to the book, by one J. Jayaraman.  For Tamizh prose translation, there are two books:

1. One published by Mullai Nilayam, Chennai, where you get Ramalingam Swamigal's initial prose translation of the verse 1.
It starts as VaLLal  Gururayan vAdhu venRa Sambandhan......The remaining translation has been done by Tiruporur
Chidambara Swamigal.

2. The second, quite recent publication, by one Mugavai Kanna Murugan Adimai, of Sri Ramana Satsangh, Chennai.
This is a detailed book which gives elaborate commentary.

Arunachala Siva.   

Dear Subramaniam Sir

Thanks for ur input about Mugavai Kanna Murugam Adimai , I got in touch with him day before yesterday and in fact it was a sort of reconnection for me  with him after a gap of 2-3 years .We had some wonderful heart to heart sharing .
Of course Ozhuvil Odukkam is too complicated a text for me right now .I have just started on with "Ellam Onre"  and following the same steps that Bhagwan gave Annamalai Swami to masteer it i.e write few verses of it daily and read it daily without fail . I will try that method out .
So once again thanks for ur input that helped me get in touch with Sri Murugan Adimai .
Om Peace .
« Last Edit: August 26, 2012, 04:51:29 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagawan and ThirArutpa of Rama Linga Swamigal
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2012, 08:00:01 PM »
Dear atmavichar100,

Ozhivil Odukkam - meaning and comments of Mugavik kaNNan Murugan Adimai, is special in the sense that it gives
Sri Bhagavan's verses and His conversations under many verses. You can try one by one the verses and cover slowly.

Arunachala Siva.

atmavichar100

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Re: Bhagawan and ThirArutpa of Rama Linga Swamigal
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2012, 04:46:29 PM »
Dear atmavichar100,

Ozhivil Odukkam - meaning and comments of Mugavik kaNNan Murugan Adimai, is special in the sense that it gives
Sri Bhagavan's verses and His conversations under many verses. You can try one by one the verses and cover slowly.

Arunachala Siva.

Many thanks Subramaniam Sir

I am following right now the advice Bhagawan gave for Annamalasi Swami in mastering the tamil works i.e write a little and slowly digest bit by bit and even Murugnar gave a sort of similar advice to Kanakammal when she was learning the Tamil classics from him .
If I have any doubts ,I will definitely seek your help /others in the forum .
Thanks once again for ur inputs .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha