Author Topic: what is prana shakthi  (Read 4507 times)

ksksat27

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what is prana shakthi
« on: June 04, 2012, 10:27:23 AM »
Couple of questions shooted from my buddhi.     Kindly request sadhaks to share the answers as far as they know.

what is this prana shakthi?


it seems even great sages require this prana shakthi to express themselves and speak

where does mind go to when prana shakthi is withdrawn at the time of death?  where prana itself goes?

in the astral plane (ie) after death before physical birth,  does mind require prana to function?

does a dream  body require prana shakthi? 

in the worship of deities,  this prana pratishtai is given the foremost place.   Why is it so?

without prana shakthi animating the body,  will a sinner and a very pious tapasvi be in a same state of supsended animation?  what is the nature of the paralyzed state of mind when prana is withdrawn at the time of death?

why prana is so dear to everybody?    how the  basic mistake was carried out --  I was without prana and suddenly a body took  birth along with thousands of  body --  that body was breathing for one year or two year.........I was not even conscious of all this,  one fine morning or evening,  I dont know when exactly,  at the split of a second I identified myself with the vital breath of this body in my babyhood.  Once started identiying I took this vital breath to  be so dear to me --  how this basic identification happened?

is the state without prana eternal state?

Subramanian.R

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Re: what is prana shakthi
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2012, 11:45:45 AM »
Dear Krishnan,
 
Prana Sakti is the power of breathing. This breathing is essential for life. Scientifically speaking, it gives oxygen to the lungs
and removes the carbon di oxide while exhaling. The Prana Sakti is essential as long as we live, whether we are awake or are
dreaming or are sleeping. Sri Bhagavan says in Who am I?: Prana and Mind are the two branches of the same power. But in
deep sleep though Mind becomes quiescent Prana continues to be there.

At the time of death, the Prana and Mind go out together (in fact Sri Bhagavan says Mind carries Prana with it) and catches
another body to enter. Between one death and another birth, if there is time gap (no one can say whether it is actually there
or not), it remains in Space.

Prana Sakti alone gives power to one for all his activities. When there is difficult and excited activity, prana goes in and comes out
faster. When one is still without activity, prana goes in and comes out in slower pace.

While doing pujas to idols at home, there is a mantra and procedure to give prana sakti to the idol. You can see it in Ganesa Chaturthi
mantras and pujas when we instal a new Ganesa made of clay for the puja.

In temples also, after the  construction and installing a Siva Linga or any idol - priests at the time of Kumbabhishekam give prana sakti to all idols by a mantra or a special procedure.  The Lingam and idols are said to be activated with this procedure.
We do not do it for the photographs of Gods at home.  In fact, praying to the gods in photos are said to be of a inferior puja.
     
Arunachala Siva.


ksksat27

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Re: what is prana shakthi
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2012, 10:33:30 AM »
Dear Krishnan,
 
Prana Sakti is the power of breathing. This breathing is essential for life. Scientifically speaking, it gives oxygen to the lungs
and removes the carbon di oxide while exhaling. The Prana Sakti is essential as long as we live, whether we are awake or are
dreaming or are sleeping. Sri Bhagavan says in Who am I?: Prana and Mind are the two branches of the same power. But in
deep sleep though Mind becomes quiescent Prana continues to be there.

At the time of death, the Prana and Mind go out together (in fact Sri Bhagavan says Mind carries Prana with it) and catches
another body to enter. Between one death and another birth, if there is time gap (no one can say whether it is actually there
or not), it remains in Space.

Prana Sakti alone gives power to one for all his activities. When there is difficult and excited activity, prana goes in and comes out
faster. When one is still without activity, prana goes in and comes out in slower pace.

While doing pujas to idols at home, there is a mantra and procedure to give prana sakti to the idol. You can see it in Ganesa Chaturthi
mantras and pujas when we instal a new Ganesa made of clay for the puja.

In temples also, after the  construction and installing a Siva Linga or any idol - priests at the time of Kumbabhishekam give prana sakti to all idols by a mantra or a special procedure.  The Lingam and idols are said to be activated with this procedure.
We do not do it for the photographs of Gods at home.  In fact, praying to the gods in photos are said to be of a inferior puja.
     
Arunachala Siva.

Nice explanation.  Thank you very much Sir.

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: what is prana shakthi
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 10:56:18 AM »
Very nicely written, Subramanian sir.

Again, prana as per many jnanis is "Bimba Bodham" - reflected Brahman. THe formation of life as I recall from Vidyaranya Swamigal's explanation is that as per Advaitha since Brahman is the only one present filling everything, nothing new can form there. When Chith forms in Brahman (meaning via Maya Shakthi) - the ever present Brahman reflects on CHIT - like sun reflects in a pot of water (As Swamigal says). 1000 pots will reflect the sun as 1000 - but there is only one sun. And when water is poured out, there is nothing to reflect. MOve the water pot, it looks like reflected sun is moving - and so on - on rebirth theory comparisons by swamigal.

Bimba Bodham is Prana Shakthi - as you have nicely put.

-Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Subramanian.R

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Re: what is prana shakthi
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2012, 02:17:59 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

Thanks.

Dear sanjya_ganesh,

The moot question is where will the mind and prana remain after death and till one's rebirth?  This cannot be answered by
anyone. In pure Advaitic point of you, since there is nothing other than Brahman, where can they rest? Perhaps with
Brahman or with Space. In the pot-sun theory, when the pot is broken, the sunlight goes back to the Space. But what will
happen till the next pot comes? The sun's rays remain either with Sun or in pure Space. When the new pot is made, then
Sun's rays will also fall on that new pot. Panchadasi I think, explains it,  in Chapter VIII - Kutastha Deepam.  I am not sure.

Arunachala Siva. 

ksksat27

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Re: what is prana shakthi
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2012, 02:41:02 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

Thanks.

Dear sanjya_ganesh,

The moot question is where will the mind and prana remain after death and till one's rebirth?  This cannot be answered by
anyone. In pure Advaitic point of you, since there is nothing other than Brahman, where can they rest? Perhaps with
Brahman or with Space. In the pot-sun theory, when the pot is broken, the sunlight goes back to the Space. But what will
happen till the next pot comes? The sun's rays remain either with Sun or in pure Space. When the new pot is made, then
Sun's rays will also fall on that new pot. Panchadasi I think, explains it,  in Chapter VIII - Kutastha Deepam.  I am not sure.

Arunachala Siva.

Why is prana so dear ?  For instance  a month back I had a very bad cold and nose blockage.

That time for few moments,  i did not try to breath through mouth.  I was gasping for breath and I felt that death strain will be very intense.

Further,  what is not clear to me is this:

very very pious people and sadhaks also die out of great fear and I believe ,  something like suspended movements happen at the time of death.

What is this mystery all about?  This is the constant question that keep on coming.

A sinner and a pious soul die in the same intense of fear.    I feel with every lifetime a great deal of our identity is lost.  I could not express,  but whatever we are doing,  we should cultivate the habit of being ready to let go our identity.

I think Brahman does not know that it exists even.  Well,  with prana I am typing all this as if a king.  But when vital air is not there,  everything is a great sunya?  suspended,   totally dense and thick volume of darkness all around with enormous density,  I think,  all this trouble is because of the first identification with prana.  Later we grow our attachment to this prana and finally when time comes ,  not able to disassociate.

Subramanian.R

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Re: what is prana shakthi
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2012, 03:26:05 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

When there  is headache we take an aspirin and get relieved. But breathlessness is a more dangerous predicament. The
Asthamatic patients like my wife know it better. In rainy seasons particularly, when the moist air that fills the lungs do not
come out, such patients find it difficult to breathe. One has to take a puff of asthalin and relieve the moisture in the lungs.
But they say that asthma does not kill a person but makes him suffer heavily.

The breathelessness during the time of death, in the final hours is really fearsome. This comes about when there is a tussle
between breath wanting to go out once for all and the ego trying to retain it for living some more hours or days.  Finally as
per destiny, breath wins, and mind carries it along with it.   

Death happens in a second though pre-death experience is horrible. For some they want relief once for all. Doctors say
that when there is no more will to live to suffer, for them death comes about easily.

Arunachala Siva.

ksksat27

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Re: what is prana shakthi
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2012, 04:08:01 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

When there  is headache we take an aspirin and get relieved. But breathlessness is a more dangerous predicament. The
Asthamatic patients like my wife know it better. In rainy seasons particularly, when the moist air that fills the lungs do not
come out, such patients find it difficult to breathe. One has to take a puff of asthalin and relieve the moisture in the lungs.
But they say that asthma does not kill a person but makes him suffer heavily.

The breathelessness during the time of death, in the final hours is really fearsome. This comes about when there is a tussle
between breath wanting to go out once for all and the ego trying to retain it for living some more hours or days.  Finally as
per destiny, breath wins, and mind carries it along with it.   

Death happens in a second though pre-death experience is horrible. For some they want relief once for all. Doctors say
that when there is no more will to live to suffer, for them death comes about easily.

Arunachala Siva.

You have touched this very rare topic with considerable depth in occult science.

Especially the last two paragraphs are worth noting.

"The breathelessness during the time of death, in the final hours is really fearsome. This comes about when there is a tussle
between breath wanting to go out once for all and the ego trying to retain it for living some more hours or days.  Finally as
per destiny, breath wins, and mind carries it along with it. "

Can you elbaorate the above in more detail?  Especailly now you speak three terms of ego,  breath and mind.  What is the difference between ego part and mind part in this context?  What is this death agony?  What type of life one has to lead to preprate onself in a better way for the final moment?  Why I am asking is this:  I saw my great grand mother,  my grand uncle,   both were staunch devotees of vishnu and shiva.  They did good deal of fastings,  visited many sacred shines and did good amount of japa and parayan.  Inspite of all this,  they were very afraid and ignorant at the final moment.  They suffered a lot.  Esp. my grand uncle.

From what you are saying,  supposing one is very mature and a highly advanced soul.  In that case,  can he avoid this death agony?

Finally can you kindly quote from where you extracted the abvoe paragraph?  If it is entirely your own observation,  fine,  you can just elaborate on your own way.

I know Maharishee never encouraged these questions,  but to remain with a doubt that too in an important topic like this is not good either.

Death happens in a second though pre-death experience is horrible. For some they want relief once for all. Doctors say
that when there is no more will to live to suffer, for them death comes about easily.



Subramanian.R

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Re: what is prana shakthi
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2012, 04:35:03 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

Sri Bhagavan says in Second Benedictory Verse of Ulladu Narpadu. those who are afraid of death, will have to seek the support of
Mahesan (the great God) as a fort to live in. But this teaching sometimes one fails to keep up, at the time of death. Your relatives
may be great bhaktas of Siva and Narayana but at the time of death, they were not able to take the support of Mahesan. Or their
agony is too much, perhaps they could not remember or hold on to the support of god. This happens in many cases. That is why
one Azhwar sang:  Appothaikku ippothe solli vaithen Narayana!  which means for 'that time' (that at the time of death my tongue
may not cooperate and I may become unable to utter your name), I am telling you 'this time'.

Appothu - at the time of death
Ippothu - now

Prana as I posted earlier is the energy that operates within us and helps us to do so many things, like purifying lungs, digestion,
evacuation, blood circulation etc.,  Mind - you know too well. Ego is the I thought.  This mind or I thought only fights a vain battle
at the time of death. Ego does not want to leave the body, But prana does not cooperate.

Sometimes only due to this, many patients go into coma or a state of being unconscious. Sri Bhagavan says that one must be
totally conscious during last hours. Then only one (at least mature sadhakas) would try to place the prana and mind back into
the Heart.

Arunachala Siva.         
 

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: what is prana shakthi
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2012, 04:39:32 PM »
As per Nochur Anna, death is a state change just like infant to toddler to boy etc. You won't ever know it. Conscious death is possible only to jivanmukthas per Anna and couple of others I have heard.

Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Subramanian.R

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Re: what is prana shakthi
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2012, 05:09:05 PM »
Dear sanjaya_ganesh,

Yes. When Echammal was seriously ill and her days were numbered, the relatives and devotes who were seeing her were not
sure whether she was conscious or not?  Suddenly one intelligent lady asked another: Has food gone to Sri Bhagavan today?
Echammal suddenly became alert and asked: Has the food really gone to Sri Bhagavan today?  All replied in chorus Yes.
This made the relatives clearly understand that she was conscious and perhaps was too tired to even speak.

After a few minutes she merged with Arunachala.

When the news was brought to Sri Bhagavan, He asked: Was she conscious till the end?  The devotees said: Yes.
He then said: Okay, only Mudaliar Patti remains!

That indirectly indicated that Echammal had merged in Arunachala.

Arunachala Siva.   

Ravi.N

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Re: what is prana shakthi
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2012, 06:46:51 PM »
Krishna,
Here is an excerpt from Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:
D.: What is the state just before death?
M.: When a person gasps for breath it indicates that the person is
unconscious of this body; another body has been held and the
person swings to and fro. While gasping there is a more violent gasp
at intervals and that indicates the oscillation between the two bodies
due to the present attachment not having been completely snapped.
I noticed it in the case of my mother and of Palaniswami.
D.: Does the new body involved in that state represent the next reincarnation
of the person?
M.: Yes. While gasping the person is in something like a dream, not
aware of the present environment.
(It must be remembered that Sri Bhagavan had been with His
mother from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. until she passed away. He was all
along holding her head with one hand, the other hand placed on
her bosom. What does it signify? He Himself said later that there
was a struggle between Himself and His mother until her spirit
reached the Heart.
Evidently the soul passes through a series of subtle experiences,
and Sri Bhagavan’s touch generates a current which turns the
soul back from its wandering into the Heart.
The samskaras, however, persist and a struggle is kept up between
the spiritual force set up by His touch and the innate samskaras,
until the latter are entirely destroyed and the soul is led into the
Heart to rest in eternal Peace, which is the same as Liberation.
Its entry into the Heart is signified by a peculiar sensation
perceptible to the Mahatma - similar to the tinkling of a bell.
When Maharshi attended on Palaniswami on his death-bed, He
took away His hand after the above signal. But Palaniswami’s eyes
opened immediately, signifying that the spirit had escaped through
them, thereby indicating a higher rebirth, but not Liberation.
Having once noticed it with Palaniswami, Maharshi continued
touching His mother for a few minutes longer - even after the
signal of the soul passing into the Heart - and thus ensured her
Liberation.

I am not  interested in this subject.I remember coming across this passage in the Talks earlier and thought you may be interested.
Most of the Fear element is just the imagination of the onlookers! :)
Namaskar.

Beloved Abstract

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Re: what is prana shakthi
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2012, 09:38:44 PM »
breath is a function of the body, it isn't an entity and it doesn't go anywhere when the body dies . the mind is the same . when the body dies the organs of the mind and breath simply stop functioning and mind and breath cease to happen . who you really are , awareness itself , is unchanged . its really very simple . truth is simple .  :)
simply stop telling the story of the self and see who you are without it

Subramanian.R

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Re: what is prana shakthi
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2012, 01:27:18 PM »
Dear Beloved Abstract,

Oh!  You seem to be knowing more than Sri Ramana.

Sri Ramana says: (Who am I? Answer to Q.12):......."Till the time of death, the mind keeps breath in the body. And when
the body dies, the mind takes the breath along with it....."   

How do you say, Beloved Abstract, that 'organs of the body and breath simply stop functioning and mind and breathe cease
to happen......"  How do you say, Beloved Abstract, "breath is a function of the body, it isn't an entity and it does not go anywhere
when the body dies.."

 Kindly clarify.

Arunachala Siva.
 

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Re: what is prana shakthi
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2012, 08:33:24 PM »
when you ask " who am i ? " and you REALLY want to know the truth , you have to be WILLING to stop telling ALL stories , even the stories about what Ramana said , in order to see the truth of who you really are without any stories . this is what Ramana and others through the ages have all pointed to .... know thy self , not who you think you are , but the truth of who you really are . this " knowing " is not a thought or a memorization of what someone said .
if you think Ramana knew more than anyone else , this is a trick of the mind , a prize for the mind to acquire .... he knows the most so if i learn what he knows i'll be just like him .
a different time , place and culture may account for discrepancies in the manor in which things are described .
i don't claim to know more than anyone else . i only state what is obvious to me as simply as i can and hope that in some way it may be helpful to others .   :)

simply stop telling the story of the self and see who you are without it