Author Topic: questions to Shri Ravi  (Read 2042 times)

ksksat27

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questions to Shri Ravi
« on: May 16, 2012, 02:39:03 PM »
I am again pulling Mr. Ravi on few important things.

For that sake, I am making public few of our private conversations.

I apologize to Shri Ravi if anything put here is not appropriate.  In such a case,  Shri Ravi can refuse to comment also. 

But neverthless these are important points worth elaborating by Shri Ravi because this is particularly applicable for those below 35--40 age group.   So now let me put Shri Ravi's opinion in summary and let Shri Ravi,  I humbly request to elborate on this for the benefit of everybody.

Ravi's opinion  (not exact words but on this line):  Younger generations should not take spiritualism as some sort of vacation. They shall also focus on improving material condition.  One can fall prey to spiritual re-creation. 

My question:  If one really takes the world as real and careful in securing his finance for future,  where spiritualism and sadhana comes into place in such a man's life?  If one keeps himself busy all the time in securing wealth and its means like increasing one's education and profession,  then how will one find time for dedicated sadhana and to visit temples?

What is the real balancing act one is expected to have --  one cannot be as truthful and genuine as Muruganar and one cannot be as neglecting as he was in professional and career aspects.

Having said that,  many like me are  hanging half the way ,  in between. 

So I request Shri Ravi to put his points and tips on how to lead this seemingly terrible life?  To what extendt one should care for his body and material support?  Where does one exceed his limit interms of more time for sadhana?

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: questions to Shri Ravi
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2012, 02:59:00 PM »
Friends -

Sorry to plunge into this question which was directed to Mr. Ravi. However, I strongly feel Lord answers all these in Gita very clearly. I am not sure what should prevent us (not 35-40 age group, but even at any age) from giving everything to the karma we have at hand - with mind dedicated in Sadhana?

Lord's life itself is an example for this. He never left any materialistic world till the last moment. Perhaps, he slept in most luxurious palaces and silken beds all through his life. Is not what is outside including karma mere illusory. If so, as Swami Vivekananda asks - Why not splurge in that with all you physical resources and play with Maya whatever the age may be? While still keeping your inner self like a lotus leaf (Lord Krishna uses the same example in Gita). It is not as hard as it sounds with constant practice - if you observe your own actions and reactions closely enough, you will slowly notice you get lesser and lesser agitated when you act like this. If the inner pull is strong enough, the outer pull cannot succeed for sure.

May be there are other books - but I humbly feel Bhagavad Gita answers this question most beautifully. Lord never even once says in Gita to leave everything and do Sadhana. In fact, the opposite :)

My apologies for plunging into this as others may vehemently disagree with me

-Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

ksksat27

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Re: questions to Shri Ravi
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2012, 05:28:46 PM »
Friends -

Sorry to plunge into this question which was directed to Mr. Ravi. However, I strongly feel Lord answers all these in Gita very clearly. I am not sure what should prevent us (not 35-40 age group, but even at any age) from giving everything to the karma we have at hand - with mind dedicated in Sadhana?

Lord's life itself is an example for this. He never left any materialistic world till the last moment. Perhaps, he slept in most luxurious palaces and silken beds all through his life. Is not what is outside including karma mere illusory. If so, as Swami Vivekananda asks - Why not splurge in that with all you physical resources and play with Maya whatever the age may be? While still keeping your inner self like a lotus leaf (Lord Krishna uses the same example in Gita). It is not as hard as it sounds with constant practice - if you observe your own actions and reactions closely enough, you will slowly notice you get lesser and lesser agitated when you act like this. If the inner pull is strong enough, the outer pull cannot succeed for sure.

May be there are other books - but I humbly feel Bhagavad Gita answers this question most beautifully. Lord never even once says in Gita to leave everything and do Sadhana. In fact, the opposite :)

My apologies for plunging into this as others may vehemently disagree with me

-Sanjay


Thanks for posting your views.  While Shri Ravi will answer and expand his tips and opinions,  let me ask you this:  in other words,  this is what I am looking for:

where is the borderline and how to define the border line where one can differentiate between karma or duty as against luxury and lavishness?

In the name of Karma ,  I can work 24 X 7  study robot programming ,  do a thorough research and then directly get employed in NAZA or Motrolla as a scientist programmer.  I can earn so much dollars per hour.  Hard work,  education,  high technology ,  dedicated,  dutiful -- agreed,  but where is the limit?  In the name of Karma,  shall one keep on focussing just on duty and only duty? In the name of duty,  should one keep on adding many ambitions?

First home in India,  then home in metro city,  then no outstanding loan,  then US Visa, then Green Card,  then citizenship,  then american passport etc, etc, etc..........  Hardworking ,  learning, earning --  all in the name of karma.  Where is the borderline one should put?  That is the trick .


ramana_maharshi

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Re: questions to Shri Ravi
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2012, 05:53:57 PM »
nice discussion sir.

yes everyone should always have a border line i.e to the extent required to support their family.

Moreover it all depends on each attitude and we should always remember bhagavan's wonderful answer given to a devotee who says he also wants to renounce the world and run away from the family similiar to what bhagavan did..

Bhagavan says "if that has been your prarabdha that question itself should not have risen"

Subramanian.R

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Re: questions to Shri Ravi
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2012, 06:26:14 PM »

Take birth in tiruvannamalai; read upto graduation. then go for a simple job like school teacher or college teacher.
marry a girl if you feel it is essential. Attend to Sri Bhagavan's Asramam everyday without fail. Cry before Him for grace.
Lead a righteous life not doing anything which may not be approved by Sri Bhagavan. And then do the Sadhana vigorously,
seeking simultaneously His abundant grace.  If you lead such a life, the gates of liberation are wide open for you.

CET entrance exam; IIT; MS. Then marrying an American girl. Green card. then permanent citizenship. More work more pay.
Pots of money, sheafs of dollars. Cancer in the stomach. You are sure to get a birth in America again and this time as a dog. 

Arunachala Siva.     

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: questions to Shri Ravi
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2012, 06:39:23 PM »
Quote
In the name of Karma ,  I can work 24 X 7  study robot programming ,  do a thorough research and then directly get employed in NAZA or Motrolla as a scientist programmer.  I can earn so much dollars per hour.  Hard work,  education,  high technology ,  dedicated,  dutiful -- agreed,  but where is the limit?  In the name of Karma,  shall one keep on focussing just on duty and only duty? In the name of duty,  should one keep on adding many ambitions?

First home in India,  then home in metro city,  then no outstanding loan,  then US Visa, then Green Card,  then citizenship,  then american passport etc, etc, etc..........  Hardworking ,  learning, earning --  all in the name of karma.  Where is the borderline one should put?  That is the trick .

Dear Krishna - Thanks for this topic. Yes - I thought deeply on this and the answer that works for me is what I state below. Again, it may not be the same answer which works for all. My answer to all of above is - do what comes your way and ask yourself whether you are at peace. I am sure you have listened - but please do listen again and again to Nochur Anna's Karma Yoga again. There he hints many times when and where to stop. If any amount of Karma does not help us reach a state of peacefulness - then one has no option but to keep on doing more and more.

I dont seem to be too adept at putting my thoughts in words here - but in what you described above seems like things that a person with "ambition for more" will do - which none of us are not I am sure. I can only quote below from Bhaja Govindam II stanza which says how much money to earn :)

मूढ़ जहीहि धनागमतृष्णाम्,
कुरु सद्बुद्धिमं मनसि वितृष्णाम्।
यल्लभसे निजकर्मोपात्तम्,
वित्तं तेन विनोदय चित्तं ॥२॥

O deluded minded ! Give up your lust to amass wealth. Give up such desires from your mind and take up the path of righteousness. Keep your mind happy with the money which comes as the result of your work. ॥2॥
Salutations to Bhagawan

Ravi.N

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Re: questions to Shri Ravi
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2012, 09:22:51 PM »
Krishna,
I do not know how you arrived at the age group 35-40!I would rather say that this is applicable much earlier,say 20-40 and true for 99.99 percent of the persons irrespective of what they would like to believe, that they are too spiritual and not at all materialistic!In general,i would say that he who does not strive for Excellence in Life and living is ill equipped to take to spiritual living;He or she , more likely is mistaking tamas for satva if he ignores excellence.Exceptions will always be there,but then they will not have such doubts!

At the outset,let me say that I do not agree with our friend R.Subramanian;Life cannot be reduced in such terms and this is too simplistic  a view.There is a whole world of difference between simplistic and simple.

You are asking-'In the name of Karma ,  I can work 24 X 7  study robot programming ,  do a thorough research and then directly get employed in NAZA or Motrolla as a scientist programmer.  I can earn so much dollars per hour.  Hard work,  education,  high technology ,  dedicated,  dutiful -- agreed,  but where is the limit?  In the name of Karma,  shall one keep on focussing just on duty and only duty? In the name of duty,  should one keep on adding many ambitions?'

My suggestion is -Very Good!Please go ahead and develop yourself and achieve this.It is good to aim for excellence and be ambitious rather than sulk around.First find out what you want and work towards that with Diligence.This will prepare us for diligence in spiritual living.

Here is an excerpt from The Gospel  of Sri Ramakrishna:
"But you must remember that nothing can be achieved except in its proper time. Some
persons must pass through many experiences and perform many worldly duties before they
can turn their attention to God; so they have to wait a long time. If an abscess is lanced
before it is soft, the result is not good; the surgeon makes the opening when it is soft and
has come to a head. Once a child said to its mother: 'Mother, I am going to sleep now.
Please wake me up when I feel the call of nature.' 'My child,' said the mother, 'when it is
time for that, you will wake up yourself. I shan't have to wake you.'
"


If we have a thirst for spiritual living,nothing will stand as an obstacle.This 'thirst' will grow and guide us as we go along.This will bring in its own moderation,but it will not be a formula based moderation.

Sri Ramakrishna says:
"You don't have to perform duties all your life. As you develop unalloyed love and longing
for God, your duties become fewer and fewer. After the realization of God they completely
drop away. When the young daughter-in-law is pregnant, her mother-in-law lessens her
duties. After the birth of the child she doesn't have to do any household work."

Namaskar.


sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: questions to Shri Ravi
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2012, 09:31:21 PM »
Quote
My suggestion is -Very Good!Please go ahead and develop yourself and achieve this.It is good to aim for excellence and be ambitious rather than sulk around.First find out what you want and work towards that with Diligence.This will prepare us for diligence in spiritual living.

Ravi - I cannot agree more with you. Aptly put...

-Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

ksksat27

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Re: questions to Shri Ravi
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2012, 10:32:07 AM »

Take birth in tiruvannamalai; read upto graduation. then go for a simple job like school teacher or college teacher.
marry a girl if you feel it is essential. Attend to Sri Bhagavan's Asramam everyday without fail. Cry before Him for grace.
Lead a righteous life not doing anything which may not be approved by Sri Bhagavan. And then do the Sadhana vigorously,
seeking simultaneously His abundant grace.  If you lead such a life, the gates of liberation are wide open for you.

CET entrance exam; IIT; MS. Then marrying an American girl. Green card. then permanent citizenship. More work more pay.
Pots of money, sheafs of dollars. Cancer in the stomach. You are sure to get a birth in America again and this time as a dog. 

Arunachala Siva.     


Dear Subramanian Sir,

I think I am on the same page with you 100%.  By some bad 'error'  I have landed up into a life full of contradictions.  What you have projected here is the apt way of living if one is serious about liberation.

This sort of 'settling abroad' passion is a disease in our society.

ksksat27

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Re: questions to Shri Ravi
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2012, 10:38:43 AM »
Krishna,
I do not know how you arrived at the age group 35-40!I would rather say that this is applicable much earlier,say 20-40 and true for 99.99 percent of the persons irrespective of what they would like to believe, that they are too spiritual and not at all materialistic!In general,i would say that he who does not strive for Excellence in Life and living is ill equipped to take to spiritual living;He or she , more likely is mistaking tamas for satva if he ignores excellence.Exceptions will always be there,but then they will not have such doubts!

At the outset,let me say that I do not agree with our friend R.Subramanian;Life cannot be reduced in such terms and this is too simplistic  a view.There is a whole world of difference between simplistic and simple.

You are asking-'In the name of Karma ,  I can work 24 X 7  study robot programming ,  do a thorough research and then directly get employed in NAZA or Motrolla as a scientist programmer.  I can earn so much dollars per hour.  Hard work,  education,  high technology ,  dedicated,  dutiful -- agreed,  but where is the limit?  In the name of Karma,  shall one keep on focussing just on duty and only duty? In the name of duty,  should one keep on adding many ambitions?'

My suggestion is -Very Good!Please go ahead and develop yourself and achieve this.It is good to aim for excellence and be ambitious rather than sulk around.First find out what you want and work towards that with Diligence.This will prepare us for diligence in spiritual living.

Here is an excerpt from The Gospel  of Sri Ramakrishna:
"But you must remember that nothing can be achieved except in its proper time. Some
persons must pass through many experiences and perform many worldly duties before they
can turn their attention to God; so they have to wait a long time. If an abscess is lanced
before it is soft, the result is not good; the surgeon makes the opening when it is soft and
has come to a head. Once a child said to its mother: 'Mother, I am going to sleep now.
Please wake me up when I feel the call of nature.' 'My child,' said the mother, 'when it is
time for that, you will wake up yourself. I shan't have to wake you.'
"


If we have a thirst for spiritual living,nothing will stand as an obstacle.This 'thirst' will grow and guide us as we go along.This will bring in its own moderation,but it will not be a formula based moderation.

Sri Ramakrishna says:
"You don't have to perform duties all your life. As you develop unalloyed love and longing
for God, your duties become fewer and fewer. After the realization of God they completely
drop away. When the young daughter-in-law is pregnant, her mother-in-law lessens her
duties. After the birth of the child she doesn't have to do any household work."

Namaskar.

Dear Shri Ravi,

Thanks for sharing your views for my sudden question shot at you.  Very glad to see your reply.

But two points I can never agree to -  some people dont simply find happiness in material life whatever way they go.  For them,  'tamas' or 'dull brain' may be the reason for material failure. Stil they develop some sort of disgust and true frustration of this material success due to the very 'tamas' they have.  They cry , look all around for help and take a Guru and his teachings.  Such people may not be fit for spiritual vigour and heroic liberation,  but neverthless this group is the abandonded class by the material world.  They have turned to God for some intevention and help and peace and solace and free time to pursue his sadhana to the extent he can.  I believe the judgement of God towards such 'tamas' beings will be favourable though it may not mean immediate liberation in this very birth.

Secondly,  if one does whatever I have quoted under 24 X 7,  they may be brave and sattvic heroes in material perception but I wont agree they are ready for spiritual path.

The other wonderful quotes you have quoted from Thakur --- I agree as they are words of an enlightened being.   It stands alone,  stresses the importance of the 'right time in one's scripts' for Moksha.

I really wonder --  you are able to take the apt quotes of Thakur and put in many discussions ,  this gives me a clear insight and I got what I looked for from you for this question though these quotes.  Again thanks for your time.

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: questions to Shri Ravi
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2012, 11:05:21 AM »
Quote
This sort of 'settling abroad' passion is a disease in our society.

:) I am not sure of this, Krishna. People are at different stages of their evolution. I would only consider this as a stage / phase in their multitude of lives - rather than a "disease". In that sense, living a spiritual life is also a disease - because then anything which is not the "ultimate" is a disease, which is a wrong perception per me. Some people take 7 days to get cured from Chicken POx and some take 21 days. It does not mean the person who takes 21 days is bad - just that he / she needs more time - as he is either more severely affected or that his body is not responding as quickly as others.

I can understand what you are saying. Personally, my pre 35 years of age was very materialistic including the disease mentioned above :) - but once you see it and be part of it - and walk that path - a time will come when "without sulking" that will fade away. Not by circumstances or failure - but by pure choice. But whether that times comes in 5 years, 10 years, this life or several lives after is something beyond anyone's prediction.

-Sanjay.
Salutations to Bhagawan

Subramanian.R

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Re: questions to Shri Ravi
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2012, 02:06:56 PM »
Dear sanjya,

Some people come very early to seeking god. Some come very late for the purpose. Some do not come at all. Chadwick, S.S. Cohen,
Kunju Swami, Viswanatha Swami and others came to Sri Bhagavan between the age of 20 to40. Grant Duff came only when he was
70. No harm. One should cross the shore at the time appointed by god. Jnana Sambandhar had god realization at the age of 3!
Such instances are rare.

Arunachala Siva.