Author Topic: doubt in தமிழ் Tamizh  (Read 4453 times)

Nagaraj

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doubt in தமிழ் Tamizh
« on: May 03, 2012, 01:46:43 PM »
Dear i,

can anybody, please help me in understanding the usage of the following letters:








Thank you.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: doubt in தமிழ் Tamizh
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2012, 03:31:08 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

I do not have Tamizh fonts. But I shall use the English letters used by grammarians.

Na is the first one. The second is na.  The third is .na.

Na is pronounced by twisting the tongue to touch the lower portion of the upper jaw. This letter never comes as
a first letter in a word. It comes as middle letter either as it is or a dotted consonant. eg. KaNNan. paNamudi.
na comes again only in the middle of a word or at the end. Ottakuthar writes Karnan as kannan in his Bharatam.
It appears also as last letter in extended form. e.g. kanA - dream. vinA - question. ninaivu - thought.

Both the above mentioned forms are also in Sanskrit.

.na appears only as a first letter. Never as a last letter. e.g. .narakam - hell.  .nAdu - country. .namathu - ours.
Sometimes it appears as middle letter. a.nubhuti - experiential state.  a.nubhavam - experience.

All the above three are called mellinam, mild consonants.

Regarding Ra and ra, while the first letter is Vallinam, tough consonant, the latter is idayinam, middle level consonant.

Ra never appears as first letter. It appears in the middle or last. e.g. kuRRam - mistake. puRa - dove. Whereas in Raman,
we use rAman and not RAman. Here again ra cannot appear alone and a 'i'  is added. Kambar says irAman and not rAman.     

ra and la cannot appear without a 'i ' first. irAman, ilakkuvan. (Lakshmanan).

Again Ra when it comes in the middle always precedes a dotted consonant of its own. 

e.g. kuRRam - mistake
      suRRam - relatives
      koRRam - kingship
     

Arunachala Siva.       

Nagaraj

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Re: doubt in தமிழ் Tamizh
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2012, 06:03:48 PM »
Dear i,

thank you so much, this is absolutely very helpful. For much time, i was unable to discern the exact usages of these letters.

:)

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: doubt in தமிழ் Tamizh
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2012, 06:38:17 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

I shall also tell you about  la, La and zha.

la again comes in the beginning of a word with 'i' prefixed. ilakkuvan, Lakshmanan.  ilatchiyam = Lakshyam
lAbam = profit = ilAbam. But Sri Bhagavan has used ignoring 'i' as lAbam, lakshiyam etc., in AAMM. It comes in the
middle and end of the words also. Ilvavam panchu = cotton. alai = wave; kalai = art. ilai = leaf. 

La is again pronounced touching the lower portion of the upper jaw. This La never comes as the first letter. It comes
in the middle or at the end as the extended consonant. ILamai = youth; kaLai = weeds; vaLamai = fertility; vAL = sword.

zha is something special to Tamizh.     No nonTamilzhians and even today's cinema tamizhians pronounce it as La only.
The degradation of Tamizh! zha again does not come in the beginning of a word. It comes in the middle or at the end
of a word as dotted consonant. eg. vahaip pazham = plantain fruits. izhvu = death or dukkam; Tamizh - Tamizh language.

zha is available only in French among the world languages. Some French girls are named ZhEn.

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: doubt in தமிழ் Tamizh
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2012, 08:59:28 PM »
Dear i,

thank you, in both your posts, while i do not significantly understand the grammar behind these, but the key rule mentioned by you, as to what does not come as the first letter, what comes as the middle or end, is really an easy take away :) the la, La i am familiar as we have the same la La in kannada, sanskrit as well and zha is exclusively tamizh's very own. the na .na Na is the trickiest. :)

it is interesting to note that French has this letter zha.

Thanks once again.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: doubt in தமிழ் Tamizh
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2012, 02:55:26 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

I forgot to mention yesterday. Malayalam is another Indian language which has got zha.

Arunachala Siva.

Ravi.N

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Re: doubt in தமிழ் Tamizh
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2012, 08:42:31 AM »
Subramanian/Nagaraj,
The letter 'ழ' is indeed unique in Tamil.Malayalam is derived from Tamil and sanskrit.
There is no 'ழ' in French,to my knowledge.What is there is that the name 'John' is written as 'Jean' and pronounced as 'Zshaan',like the famous classical Flutist-Jean-pierre Rampal-Pronounced as 'Zshaan peer rumpal'.

In Tirukkural Sage VaLLuvar brings out the beauty of 'ழ' in this couplet:
குல் இனிது யாழ் இனிது என்பதம் மக்கள்
லைச் சொல் கேளாதவர்.

There is an interesting anecdote when sri Kanchi Mahaswami queried in his nonchalant manner the Famous Tamil Scholar kee vaa Jagannathan-'Why tamizh is called Tamizh"!
Kee VA Jagannathan could not answer this and was speechless.Mahaswami then told him-'Look I can tell you why Samskrtam(sanskrit)is called so;'sam' means well,good,etc and 'krtam' means made,hence samskrtam means 'well made' bAsha(language).Now tell me why 'Tamizh' is called 'Tamizh'!The Great Tamizh scholar humbly submitted that he did not know.
Mahaswami like achild said-'Shall I say why tamizh is called tamizh as It occurs to me'.Kee Vaa Ja replied:"Yes,Periyava should enlighten us'.
MahaPeriyava then said-tamizh is called தமிழ் because it has a sweet letter b]ழ[/b] in it-தமிழ் தம்முள் வைத்திருக்கிறது,and he quoted the above verse of vaLLuvar.
Kee Va Jagannathan accepted it and said-'Now that periyava has pointed this out,it is definitely so'!

Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: doubt in தமிழ் Tamizh
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2012, 09:56:26 AM »
Dear Ravi,

Nice anecdote about Maha Periyava and Kanchi Mahaswami.

Arunachala Sivam.

Nagaraj

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Re: doubt in தமிழ் Tamizh
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2012, 10:49:13 AM »
Dear i,

i remember having heard some Kee VA Ja keerals :)

is beautiful

how different is Grantham from the regular language?

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: doubt in தமிழ் Tamizh
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2012, 02:07:21 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

I am told Grantham is a mixture of Tamizh and Sanskrit letters. Many Slokas are written in Grantham scripts. I have seen
Grantham books. But this mixture is also difficult for a person who does not know Sanskrit letters to read comfortably.
In the olden days, Sastrigal, who come home and  do pujas, new moon ceremonies, annual ceremonies etc., keep these Grantham books
and read out the required mantras. This was perhaps facilitated for those brahmins who are not thorough with Sanskrit.
I think today such Grantham books have become rare.


Arunachala Siva.