Author Topic: Questions about Jnani  (Read 3998 times)

Hari

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Questions about Jnani
« on: April 28, 2012, 09:55:17 PM »
1. It is said that Jnani is God. In what sense? Is He Ishvara or Brahman or both? If is He Ishvara then He must do whatever He wants. Then why He doesn't make His body immortal to teach people very long time?
2. It is said that jnani can do anything. Then why He doesn't cure all people who come to Him? Or to resolve the great number of their life problems? Or He does?
3. Can Guru (Jnani) burn negative karma and make individual's mind more pure and sattvic and this way making his spiritual journey easier?

I am sorry for my lack of education of this matter in advance.
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Nagaraj

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Re: Questions about Jnani
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2012, 10:37:50 PM »
Jnani/Jnanam is just another name for God. What is the meaning of Jnani - one who knows, and, who is the one that really knows? knows everything, He is God, therefore a Jnani is God Himself, he is called by various names, Ishwara, Brahman, Atman, Rama, Buddha, Jesus, Allah.

He does what ever he wants! They all did what ever they want!

what is to cure, is it curing what we think is curing? we see what is to cure from our limited perspective, what we think good for us, need not be really good for us, what we think is bad for us, can be good for us, only God knows that. But we rebel with Gods decision, with our limited perspectives. God always does best for us, even if he does not cure, it is for ones own Good. :)

Guru, Jnani can burn away ones negativ Karma immediately. Yes, Those who can realise the truth by hearing a statement such as 'You are Brahman' directly from the Guru are the gunpowder sadhakas who ignite with a single spark; those who need to contemplate on the words for some time until the conviction becomes direct experience are the charcoal aspirants.

but everybody does in the end!

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Questions about Jnani
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2012, 01:22:23 PM »
Dear ramana,

Sri Bhagavan Himself has said that a Jnani is a God.  Your question is: Why does a Jnani not do whatever He wants?  Jnani has
no wants, in the first place. He has no sankalpa even thoughts. How then can he want or think?  You asked: Why should He not
live long years to teach people?  A Jnani's job is not to teach others.  His job is to shower His blessings, aruL in Tamizh.  Whoever
wants to make use of it, let them take it. He is like rains. When there are rains, some receive water. And make use of that water.
If someone does not even stir out or keep a vessel on the open courtyard to pick the rain waters, Rains cannot compel such people.       

Why does a Jnani not cure himself or others who come to him. First of all a Jnani is not the body. So a Jnani does not care about the
body's ailments. Curing is not his work. His work is to cure the mind from evil thoughts and desires. Even here, the recipient should
be ready.  If the recipient is ready his mental problems would be cured. Still, in the case of some people, a Jnani cures the physical
diseases too. But it is rare. Like Jesus did for a few people and not for all in Nazareth. 

Guru can burn your negative karma if you have intense faith in him.  When Jesus asked the lepers to stand, not all stood.  The one
who stood got cured. Otherwise he leaves the other sick people to their prarabdha. 'O ye of little faith, how can you be cured?' said
Jesus.

Arunachala Siva. 

Hari

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Re: Questions about Jnani
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2012, 11:58:15 AM »
Does Bhagavan understand our prayers no matter what language we use? My mind "created" this doubts while reading how Bhagavan has used translators. Does He know my thoughts and understand the language I use? I know this is stupid doubt but how can say to my mind to not create such doubts...
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Nagaraj

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Re: Questions about Jnani
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2012, 12:05:15 PM »
Dear i,

no doubts on these aspects, did not Bhagavan talk to monkeys, squirrels, cow, dogs?

WRT to these languages, lets see, what Bhagavan has said:

Language is only a medium for communicating one’s thoughts to another. It is called in only after thoughts arise; other thoughts arise after the ‘I-thought’ rises; the ‘I-thought’ is the root of all conversation. When one remains without thinking one understands another by means of the universal language of silence. Silence is ever-speaking; it is a perennial flow of language; it is interrupted by speaking.

These words obstruct that mute language. There is electricity flowing in a wire. With resistance to its passage, it glows as a lamp or revolves as a fan. In the wire it remains as electric energy. Similarly also, silence is the eternal flow of language, obstructed by words. What one fails to know by conversation extending to several years can be known in a trice in Silence, or in front of Silence - e.g., Dakshinamurti, and his four disciples. That is the highest and most effective language.

(Talks 246)

What they call this Heart Language is a current of awareness in the heart, the “aham sphurana”, led him to the consciousness of the Self, which he called the "I-I" (or the "I AM" prior to the primal I-thought), and which became his constant enigmatic fascination henceforward. He clearly related that a "great power" had taken him over, and that he had done no sadhana, while apparently achieved in one half-hour what it takes most aspirants years or lifetimes to do.

With what bhava (feeling) did Bhagavan cry before those images? Did Bhagavan pray he should have no further birth, or what?", he replied, "What bhava? I only wanted the same grace as was shown to those saints. I prayed I should have the same bhakti that they had. I knew nothing of freedom from births or bondage."

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Questions about Jnani
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2012, 12:20:12 PM »
Quote
no doubts on these aspects, did not Bhagavan talk to monkeys, squirrels, cow, dogs?

Did they understand Him? Did He know what they think and speak?

One night Bhagavan came in my dream. He was in lotus pose and looked me directly in the eyes. I spoke to Him but He didn't tell me a word. I just bowed down and holded His right hand, not His feet as is properly. And when I woke up I wandered why He didn't tell me anything. Of course it was a dream but the question remained.
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sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Questions about Jnani
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2012, 12:29:53 PM »
Dear Ramana Ji

Quote
Did they understand Him? Did He know what they think and speak?

Is understanding only through speech? No. If "they" and "I" are one and the same, what is the need for language? How does my right hand communicate with left hand without speaking or learning any language?

Regarding dream interpretations, I only would say what Bhagawan told someone when they asked "What will you ask if Arunachala came before you"? He said in tamil "Intha Prathyakshamakara velai ellam engitte venam solluven" meaning "Dont show me this appear and disappear job" he said. Later he said anything which appears and disappears is not the truth. Truth does not appear and disappear. It is ever there.

Peace
Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Nagaraj

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Re: Questions about Jnani
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2012, 12:32:52 PM »
Quote
no doubts on these aspects, did not Bhagavan talk to monkeys, squirrels, cow, dogs?

Did they understand Him? Did He know what they think and speak?

One night Bhagavan came in my dream. He was in lotus pose and looked me directly in the eyes. I spoke to Him but He didn't tell me a word. I just bowed down and holded His right hand, not His feet as is properly. And when I woke up I wandered why He didn't tell me anything. Of course it was a dream but the question remained.

Dear i,

Firstly, you are truly blessed. Such dreams are not really 'dreams' :) thank you for sharing your joy, it brings joy to one who also reads your experience.

What is there to communicate to heart Dear i? if he were to say something, it would be for your mind, he has directly hit your heart, through his glance. Bhagavan says - What one fails to know by conversation extending to several years can be known in a trice in Silence, or in front of Silence.

It is the nature of mind to seek meaning out of everything. But how to seek meaning of that which is beyond even the realms of mind and understanding. Allow yourself to soak in the warmth of Bhagavan, do not seek understanding, what is there to understand, when Bhagavan Himself, has come forward to grace you. Leave it to him. Just leave it to him. Surrender. He knows what to do. :)

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Questions about Jnani
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2012, 01:22:11 PM »
Thank you to both of you. My problem may be is that I always have dreamed to speak with Bhagavan in my own native language, even once, to ask Him what bothers me and He to answer me directly and disperse my anxiety. In the same way Jesus answers to prayers to christians in their own language in dreams or visions. Yes, I know, visions must not be encouraged but sometimes we (me) need them, especially when the Guru or God we pray and have surrendered to is not in front of us.
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sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Questions about Jnani
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2012, 01:30:19 PM »
Ramana Ji

Yes - I completely agree with you. As long as we have samsara problems to solve this guidance is mandatory and great to have. Sorry to digress - but my problem is uninterpretable dreams disturb too - as I try to spend time finding what is behind it. My latest one is a mystery to me for over a month - In which I am dead lying as a dead body and functions have started. But I am one of the attendants in the function too :( . I am sitting near the dead body of mine, attending functions and so on and so forth. Very strange and could not explain - though it was lingering in me for a long time. Then I left it without trying to find anything.

Peace,
Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Subramanian.R

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Re: Questions about Jnani
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2012, 02:59:04 PM »
Dear ramana,

Sri Bhagavan's language is Silence. But He understands all languages in which prayers are made.  As someone rightly pointed
our here, He even understands the language of animals and birds and squirrels. He understands the arrival and departure of
Siddhas like light.

Once a Kashmiri gentleman came to see Sri Bhagavan. H knows only Kashmiri and English. His servant knows only
Kashmiri. He sent the servant first inside the Hall to see whether Sri Bhagavan is free and whether there is much crowd.
The Kashmiri knowing servant went inside and stood before Him. Sri Bhagavan gazed at him in utter silence. After sometime,
the servant came to his Master and told him: Master!  You said Bhagavan does not know Kashmiri. But HE SPOKE TO ME IN
KASHMIRI. The Master was flabbergasted. He came rushing into the Old Hall. He asked others. All laughed and Sri Bhagavan
also laughed. Then they said Sri Bhagavan knows only Tamizh, Telugu, Malayalam and a little English and He does not definitely
know Kashmiri!

Silence is the master of all languages. Sri Bhagavan is the Master of all languages in that sense!

Arunachala Siva.         

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Questions about Jnani
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2012, 03:03:22 PM »
Subramanian sir - thanks. Yes - I also remember the events around Seshadri Swamigal in this context. The story is in the latest issue of Mountain Path also. When Vittoba went into eternal Samadhi one early morning, people in Arunachala (several kilometers away - I think 50 or so Kms away) witnessed Seshadri Swamigal running out like a mad person shouting - "See. See Vittobha is going. What a royal journey". People thought it was another eccentric behavior - as usually known - about Seshadri Swamigal. That evening Ashram received a telegram quoting teh exact time of Vittobha's depature from body, which coincided exactly with the time when Seshadri Swamigal ran out shouting in the morning.

Peace,
-Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Subramanian.R

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Re: Questions about Jnani
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2012, 03:13:17 PM »
Dear sanjaya and ramana,

The Jnanis' was are inscrutable. Viveka Chudamani says they would be like madcaps, children, dumb and deaf and behave
abnormally.  Once Sri Bhagavan said:  There are three mad men in Tiruvannamalai.

One is Arunachaleswara Himself. The poor guy, has given half of his body to his wife. Further this fellow in spite of his wife
doing all dharmas including food serving (in Kanchipuram), goes for begging.

The second is Seshadri Swamigal.

The third is Sri Bhagavan.

Pithu vittu unai ner pithan akkinai aruL
pitham theLi marunthu Arunachala!

You made me give up craze for the world and made me crazy for you. O Arunachala. Now give me a medicine to cure
every kind of madness! 

   -AAMM 66

Arunachala Siva.       

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Questions about Jnani
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2012, 03:15:55 PM »
Very beautiful, sir. Thanks.
Salutations to Bhagawan

Hari

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Re: Questions about Jnani
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2012, 03:43:04 PM »
Thank you for this example, Sri Subramanianji. I found the exact description of this situation. It is explained in this article:

Quote
Vedic Vak: illustration of Para Vak

Posted on August 19, 2009

All great spiritual masters give instruction in silence. This silence is not absence of speech but a force-field emitted the Master which bathes the disciple and dissolves his/her questions.  This eternal silence whose vibrations issue forth from the Master is the Para Vak (i.e. transcendental speech) discussed in the previous post Vedic Vak: four levels of sound.

Here are two examples of how Para Vak works. One is from the life of Ramana Maharshi, the sage of Arunachala and the other from the Mother of the Aurobindo Ashram, Mira Alfassa.

Ramana Maharshi answered a Kashmiri man’s questions using Para Vak

Major Chadwick reports the following episode: “A gentleman from Kashmir came to the Ashram with his servant who could not speak a word of any other language except his native Kashmiri. One night when the Hall was almost dark except for the pale glimmer of a single hurricane lantern, the servant came into the Hall and stood before Bhagavan in a respectful manner jabbering something rapidly in his own language. Bhagavan said nothing, but lay quietly gazing at him. After a while the servant saluted and left the Hall. Next morning his master came to Bhagavan and complained, ‘Bhagavan, you never told me you could speak Kashmiri, was it fair?’

‘Why, what do you mean?’ asked Bhagavan. ‘I know not a single word of your language.’

Bhagavan asked the gentleman how he had got hold of this absurd idea and the latter explained: ‘Last night my servant came to you and asked you several questions in his language. He tells me that you answered him in the same language and cleared his doubts.’

‘But I never opened my mouth,’ Bhagavan replied.”

Source:  Ramana Maharshi: The Master of Silent Teaching: By Gabriele Ebert

The Mother answered an Italian man’s questions using Para Vak

…this morning I received that Italian, he started speaking, making gestures, telling me things – NOT ONE sound reached my ears … yet I knew perfectly well what he was saying. And I answered him in the same way, without speaking. I didn’t feel it was someone else talking to me and that I was answering him: it was a totality of movements more or less conscious of themselves, a totality and an exchange, an interchange of movements more or less conscious of themselves, with some vibrations more conscious, some less conscious, but the whole thing very living, very active. But then, in order to speak, I would have had to put myself in the ordinary consciousness in which the Italian was over there and I was here – but it didn’t mean anything any more, it wasn’t true. So there was something answering within, very actively, very distinctly, and all of it went on together (gesture showing movements of consciousness or waves of vibrations), and at the same time, there was a consciousness – a very, very vast consciousness – which was watching it all [those exchanges of vibrations] and exerting a sort of control, a very, very slight but very precise control, so as to put each vibration in its place.

[Mother's Agenda, Dec 11, 1963]

Ramana Maharshi expatiates on how this eternal silence – Para Vak – works

“Silence is ever-speaking; it is a perennial flow of language; it is interrupted by speaking. These words obstruct that mute language. There is electricity flowing in a wire. With resistance to its passage, it glows as a lamp or revolves as a fan. In the wire it remains as electric energy. Similarly also, silence is the eternal flow of language, obstructed by words. What one fails to know by conversation extending to several years can be known in a trice in Silence, or in front of Silence – e.g., Dakshinamurti, and his four disciples.  That is the highest and most effective language.”

Elsewhere it is stated: “Silence is never-ending speech. Vocal speech obstructs the other speech of silence. In silence one is in intimate contact with the surroundings. The silence of Dakshinamurti removed the doubts of the four sages. Mouna vyakhya prakatita tatvam (Truth expounded by silence). Silence is said to be exposition. Silence is so potent.

For vocal speech, organs of speech are necessary and they precede speech. But the other speech lies even beyond thought. It is in short transcendent speech or unspoken word, para vak.”

Source: http://auromere.wordpress.com/2009/08/19/vedic-vak-illustration-of-para-vak/
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