Author Topic: Making a Difference  (Read 10200 times)

latha

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Re: Making a Difference
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2012, 09:34:46 PM »
Raviji,

Thank you for sharing such a beautiful verse by Sage thAyumAnavar. It is so simple and truly reflects his state of devotion.

Nagaraj

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Re: Making a Difference
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2012, 10:45:35 PM »
Friends,

In the name and fear of ego, if one stays back, and not aspire to help others, then how can oneself evolve and purify?

One should be optimistic and not buckle down to kneels on the face of ego like this.

This should not be the right spirit, doing charity may boost my ego, so, it is better to be normal etc... this could only stagnate one.

March one, march ahead, face the ego where ever it you. For, if we don't march on, one can never know ones ego.

Let it be ego, atleast let us start doing something, for, fear of ego ought not to be a stumbling block. The very act of charity, though provoked by ego, itself would purify one, like the camphor, the one who does charity with ego, will himself burn out soon.

So, i feel, friends, keep off your fears of ego, on this regard! It is ok, let us keep this uncomplicated, plain and simple, :) it is a beautiful feeling to to help. is my humble view.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Making a Difference
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2012, 10:51:29 PM »
Our fears are like this, "it may rain, so, let me stay back"

The true spirit should be "yes, it may rain, but let me take with me an umbrella (faith in ones Guru)"

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Making a Difference
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2012, 01:02:04 AM »
Nagaraj garu,

If we were to understand deeply about bhagavan's way of life it is clear that he does not want to involve in outside matters to whatever extent it is possible as it is always to satisfy ego we may want to do things like charity..

So minimising these good works is suggested..

Bhagavan was only compassionate to fellow humans,animals,plants who are close to him i.e his teachings. He did not travel to north india and fed plants,animals ...

I think nagaraj garu and ravi thought may mean mahatma gandhiji is better than bhagavan ramana as the former brought more smiles in indians ?

I will second subramanian garu in this regard.

Ravi.N

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Re: Making a Difference
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2012, 06:51:32 AM »
Prasanth,

Quote
"Bhagavan was only compassionate to fellow humans,animals,plants who are close to him i.e his teachings. He did not travel to north india and fed plants,animals ...

I think nagaraj garu and ravi thought may mean mahatma gandhiji is better than bhagavan ramana as the former brought more smiles in indians ?"

How thoughts constantly mislead us;how difficult to be utterly simple.To be in one place  or to be moving around depends on the prarabda of the jnAni.Sri Sankara went all over india,whereas sri Bhagavan stayed put in one place.What should be seen is how compassionate they were and what advice they gave.
There is a place for everything in this world and this is the reason,each teacher or Guru emphasizes different aspect of the teachings.
If we internalize these teachings,then the Heart and not the Head will become our guide and will lead us onwards.Then we do not have to think-'What does so and so say','Is it the Right thing to do',etc ,etc.How long we propose to be just 'Followers'  of our borrowed thoughts?
If we can work in an office and earn money and accept transfers to go to other places,where is the difficulty in being compassionate to other living beings wherever they happen to be?Where is the difficulty in doing 'Good' and why examine if 'good' is good enough!Why this double standard.All that is said is what Jesus also said:'Love your neighbor as yourself'
As Holy Mother Sri sarada Devi said just before her passing away:"But I tell you one thing—if you want peace of mind, do not find fault with others. Rather see your own faults. Learn to make the whole world your own. No one is a stranger my child: this whole world is your own!"
This has been the true teaching of all religions and the essence behind sanatana dharma-'Sarve janah sukhino bhavanthu'.These are not just meant to be uttered as pious platitudes but each one has to make it part and parcel of one's life.
The Sage of Kanchi has brought out wonderfully simple schemes where everyone can contribute in some small way,according to one's capacity.He brought out a beautiful schemme wherein one can set aside a 'Fistful of Plain Rice' aside everyday and this gets collected and the food made out of it to be distributed to the poor and needy.What a wonderfully simple way that allows partcipation by one and all.This system is again getting  revived and the Kanchi Mutt is encouraging devotees to participate in such simple schemes.As everyone rich or poor can contribute to this schemme,all are equal and no room for any pride to creep in-at the same time,the poor and needy can have their hunger satiated.

Namaskar.

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Making a Difference
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2012, 07:03:26 AM »
Friends,

Bhagawan's message is very clear with confusion in this matter. He never "reached out" to help and socially reform. At the same time, what comes in his way he helped like any Satwic person will do. He never blocked the flow of Karma through his body - but neither derived happiness nor hated any karma. Again - my point - is reaching out to create charity opportunities will fail. Swami Vivekananda was very sad towards his last days for what all he did. He has made it very clear in his study books. He said once towards his last days - which I recall from his 8 volume studies clearly : "You all pulled me into your ditch. If I had another chance, I would have never done what I did".

Dont you think Bhagawan could have easily created a Ramana mission. Why did he not do it?? So let us do good deeds on the Karma path that we walk without trying to create opportunities for it. For example, I believe in helping people around me like house maids etc with all help rather than reaching out working for a larger organization helping groups of people.

So there is no confusion in Bhagawan's message - according to me.

-Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Ravi.N

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Re: Making a Difference
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2012, 07:04:07 AM »
Lata,

Quote
"we think we cook - did we make the rice grains, vegetables etc.,? did we become fire and cook the food? all that we did is put some things together and feel we have done this big task of cooking and making food."

Very correct and simple,effective example. sri Ramakrishna gives a different flavour to this example:
"As long as God keeps the awareness of 'I' in us, so long do sense-objects exist; and we
cannot very well speak of the world as a dream. There is fire in the hearth; therefore the
rice and pulse and potatoes and the other vegetables jump about in the pot. They jump
about as if to say: 'We are here! We are jumping!' This body is the pot. The mind and
intelligence are the water. The objects of the senses are the rice, potatoes, and other
vegetables. The 'I-consciousness' identified with the senses says, 'I am jumping about.' And
Satchidananda is the fire
."

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Making a Difference
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2012, 07:11:25 AM »
Sanjaya,
What makes you think that vivekananda was sad!What a myth!Swamiji was a multisided personality.No one can try to fathom him.Forget what he said and you need not take him as a a right example.I will post in the Rough-notebook regarding this aspect.
All the other Great ones have said this-Please do not mistake what is said-We are not to start a mission!Whoever told you this.Great ones like Sankara ,Swami Vivekananda had come to fulfill a mission that is divinely ordained-not something of the 'Ego's ' making!Please read again what Nagaraj has started this topic .See if there is any missionary zeal there!
Namaskar.

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Making a Difference
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2012, 07:23:39 AM »
Quote
What makes you think that vivekananda was sad!What a myth!Swamiji was a multisided personality.No one can try to fathom him.

Apologies if it hurt anyone.

Quote
All the other Great ones have said this-Please do not mistake what is said-We are not to start a mission!Whoever told you this.Great ones like Sankara ,Swami Vivekananda had come to fulfill a mission that is divinely ordained-not something of the 'Ego's ' making!Please read again what Nagaraj has started this topic .See if there is any missionary zeal there!

Agree.
Salutations to Bhagawan

Ravi.N

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Re: Making a Difference
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2012, 07:29:54 AM »
Sanjaya,

Quote
"So let us do good deeds on the Karma path that we walk without trying to create opportunities for it"

How do we propose to do it?Are we in a job?Did it come our way without working for it?Does this mean sharing with people in one's apartment complex  only or with one's office colleagues only?How do' we stop trying  to create opportunity' and yet do 'good deeds on the Karma path as you say'?Please ,can you be more tangible?

I will post what Swami Vivekananda says in 'My Master' here:
" If you wish to be a true reformer, three things are necessary. The first is to feel. Do you really feel that there is so much misery in the world, so much ignorance and superstition? Do you really feel that men are your brothers? Does this idea come into your whole being? Does it run with your blood? Does it tingle in your veins? Does it course through every nerve and filament of your body? Are you full of that idea of sympathy? If you are, that is only the first step. You must think next if you have found any remedy. The old ideas may be all superstition, but in and around these masses of superstition are nuggets of gold and truth. Have you discovered means by which to keep that gold alone, without any of the dross? If you have done that, that is only the second step; one more thing is necessary. What is your motive? Are you sure that you are not actuated by greed of gold, by thirst for fame or power? Are you really sure that you can stand to your ideals and work on, even if the whole world wants to crush you down? Are you sure you know what you want and will perform your duty, and that alone, even if your life is at stake? Are you sure that you will persevere so long as life endures, so long as there is one pulsation left in the heart? Then you are a real reformer, you are a teacher, a Master, a blessing to mankind. "

We are not to be 'Reformers',but service and love for other Living beings is part and parcel of Good Sadhana-any sadhana devoid of this element is only self centred activity-it is a sort of opium eating only.Mission is for the Great ones like Swamiji or Sri Sanakara or jnAna sambandha,Jesus ,the Christ.
We can be Ravi,sanjaya and practice sadhana on a sure footing with this element of Love and service to other beings.As mahAkavi bhArati said:'kAkai kuruviyum engaL jAthi'-meaning :The Crows and sparrows belong to our clan.Without this element of Love and service,the so called spiritual seeking is just sheer escapism only-escape from the demands of the work-a -day world that everyone has to grudgingly endure!

Namaskar.

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Making a Difference
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2012, 08:16:53 AM »
Quote
Quote
How do we propose to do it?Are we in a job?Did it come our way without working for it?quote]
Dear Ravi sir,

Let me try to answer. It is about NOT standing in the way of the Karma taht was destined for you to get a job. I know it is hard for intellect to grasp. If your own vasana wanted you to become an advocate - you standing in the way of the vasana and saying I will not do it is what is bad karma. Karma is all about vasanas. So you got a job not "working for it". It is the ego which says "I worked for my job".

Quote
Does this mean sharing with people in one's apartment complex  only or with one's office colleagues only?How do' we stop trying  to create opportunity' and yet do 'good deeds on the Karma path as you say'?Please ,can you be more tangible?[/

No. It is not. It is sharing with people who stumble on your way and dealing with them naturally. Why limit to apartment complex or office colleagues. For example, (please please dont interpret it as a show off - but only an example in context) - I met a poor lady in a grocery shop (not from my office or apartment complex :)) - and she was standing behind me in queue and begging for some free vegetables. All I did at spur of the moment was to pay for all the vegetables she picked from teh store.

No. I did not go looking out for it. Nor did I confine to apartment complex or office. I did not create an opportunity also. Not sure, sir - it is tangible enough. But that is my humble submission.

And what is the stage I am striving for? Not feeling happy - neither sad - about the above incident. I want to be at exactly same state of mind with or without doing it - Sthitha Prajna as Lord says in Gita.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2012, 08:21:03 AM by sanjaya_ganesh »
Salutations to Bhagawan

Ravi.N

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Re: Making a Difference
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2012, 08:33:43 AM »
Sanjaya,
Yes,this is the point.These are part and parcel of Living spontaneously and not in a formula ridden way of the mind.It is only the purified mind that is capable of spontaneity and again the more one practices this,one's mind attains purity.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Making a Difference
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2012, 09:01:26 AM »
Sanjaya,
The spontaneity of a sthithaprajna allows him the freedom to be happy when others are happy and to be sad when they are in distress.It does not mean that a sthithaprajna is indifferent and wooden.it just means that his prajna(awareness) is steady and his bhava takes appropriate expression suited to the occasion in a spontaneous way.How did sri Bhagavan react to the fall of a sparrow's egg?What were his feelings when he was moved to the New hall?These Feelings are of the one who considers other's sorrow as his sorrow and other's joy as his joy.
Namaskar.

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Making a Difference
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2012, 09:21:07 AM »
Yes, Ravi sir. You are right. I stand corrected.
Salutations to Bhagawan

Subramanian.R

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Re: Making a Difference
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2012, 09:57:57 AM »
Dear Ravi and sanjaya,


Lakshmana Sarma says: the destruction of kartrutvam is karma yoga. the destruction of vibhakti (separation) is bhakti yoga.
the destruction of viyogam (again separateness) is Yoga. Ahankara nasam is bodham, Jnanam.

Arunachala Siva.