Author Topic: DELETED  (Read 2059 times)

srkudai

  • Guest
DELETED
« on: April 16, 2012, 02:55:44 PM »
DELETED. We do not need this.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 08:40:10 PM by srkudai »

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Is it The object or The thought ?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2012, 03:55:04 PM »
That's what I think, Sri Udai.

Happiness is not caused by either objects and thoughts. Happiness occurs when the thought melts into its object. For a very short period - may be seconds or milliseconds - the mind is absent from thoughts and Self shines. But a new thought emerges very fast and actually what we experience is something mixed between the Supreme Happiness and the dissatisfaction from the arised new thought. This we call happiness or material happiness.

Unhappiness is caused by unsatisfied desire - thought is existent. Not only that - dissatisfaction only increases its intensitity and other thoughts arise. The ocean now is full of wavs and we cannot see the treasure on the bottom.

That's why sages always say that desire is what takes away man from God. Christians call this a sin. Sin is everything which disconnect man from God.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Is it The object or The thought -- An Inquiry ?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2012, 04:32:13 PM »
Quote
the reason you feel unhappy when some thoughts come is ... the thoughts are "as if hitting you"
isnt it ? Not presence of any thoughts ... some specific thoughts create problem. not all thoughts.

That's what I mean by "thought merging with the object". And when you remember something beautiful you are happy because of the remembrance not only of the object but the happiness itself. When you are remembering you are actually repeating what I have explained in my previous post. Can happiness be outside the Self? Can it be from thoughts or objects themselves? No, until you consider them as something other than the Self.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Is it The object or The thought -- An Inquiry ?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2012, 04:48:17 PM »
Dear i,

If some object makes us happy or unhappy, both are fine. What matters is indifference to both happiness and unhappiness. If this is clear, that the aim of 'jnana' is achieved. I felt, no need to worry, about whether, it is the object that makes us unhappy or happy.

That is to be untouched by both happiness and unhappiness. accepting both as it comes and goes.

If you are peaceful, calm, at both, then, there is nothing more to discern.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 04:54:24 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Is it The object or The thought -- An Inquiry ?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2012, 05:09:26 PM »
Dear i,

i discern, it is because, we still have desires, like i contemplated in some other post, we need to look within and discern, whether the bliss of Self greater than the happiness derived out of worldly materials enjoyed by the senses.

As for this moment, we have not yet tapped that source with absolute conviction, as we have not tasted the nectar of the bliss without the help of our senses.

Hence, even though we know the supreme bliss off self, we are not able to abide as that, because, we are only contradicting ourselves as of now, by imposing on ourselves that Self is supreme than eating nice idly vada :) which is not so, but we want to force onto ourselves that the Self is supreme, when we are not there yet.

Which is why, Bhakthi becomes important, we need to be stripped, we need to be shaken by the grace of a Guru, God, Self, shaken by some supreme power.

Only when we are touched by that which cannot be touched, can we abide as Self.

Untill then all our efforts to free ourselves of desires, trying to curtail our vasanas, etc.. will be of less avail.

We need to be constantly on the look out of that which is beyond experienced the senses. We are quite used to experience something only through the senses alone, and because of that, we fail to look beyond the senses. we need to tap that which is infinite times greater than the senses. Once, even if a fraction of that is seen, one is closed :D with for ever... Goner!

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Is it The object or The thought -- An Inquiry ?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2012, 05:14:11 PM »
yes, the moment, it is recognised, you are free of it. but only we allow it to repeat itself again. when the recognition dies, we are born again.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1832
    • View Profile
    • Fundamental questions about mind
Re: Is it The object or The thought -- An Inquiry ?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2012, 05:17:32 PM »
Sri Udai, I am afraid that whatever answer be given it will not solve this question. Have asked yourself the question why we so many months continue to ask questions when Lord Ramana and all sages has given us the cure and the map and the answer of all our questions. Why we don't listen them? Do we have enough faith in them? If we do not what can be done?  I ask you and all others - why do you surf in Internet instead of practicing your sadhana? I have asked myself that too and may be the reason is that the mind is not interested enough. Mind flows to its passions, interests and so on, not to that which will destroy it. Have you asked yourself questions like that? Why are we delaying our sadhana? We always excuse ourselves that we are not sannyasin, some are householders, have children, family. Others excuse that they must study. Third - that they must read Sacred scriptures, to remember them; they read about Self-inquiry, many comments about it. But is that true? Why readers of Scriptures instead of read again and again about Self-inquiry just practice it. Householders have responsibility to family but why in the evening istead of watching TV do some sadhana? Are we doing enough? And most importantly - can we do more?
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43594
    • View Profile
Re: Is it The object or The thought -- An Inquiry ?
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2012, 05:21:42 PM »
Dear srkudai,

It is the thought that matters. Objects do not make you happy or unhappy.  Suppose I see a person coming in my direction as I walk.
I do not identify him still. Still I think that he is Mr. X whom I hate. I develop hatred towards him. Remember he is still not clearly seen.
As he comes closer to you, you identify that he is not Mr. X but someone else. You become neutral to him. Now what brought about
the hatred. The thought or object.

Suddenly the power fails in my house.  I get irritated. When I found from my neighbor that power had failed in all the flats. Then I become
somewhat cool. Now the power failure per se has not brought about irritation. The thought that there is power failure due to my flats fuse point, alone caused irritation.

Arunachala Siva.         

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Is it The object or The thought -- An Inquiry ?
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2012, 05:27:40 PM »
Sri Udai, I am afraid that whatever answer be given it will not solve this question.

Dear i,

let us flow, as a river, unconditionally, yes there are many stones on the way, we are getting hit, but its ok. let us have faith... and move on...

Let us allow some space to ourselves, as we are, you know, we cant stuff our mouth with food. Let us all, relieve ourselves, of what is within, unconditionally, let the dropping off, happen on its own accord :)

many things are meaningless, yes, lets be aware of it, but, let us allow the process to finish by itself. When we switch off a fan, the blades still rotate due the energy, it will take some time before the fan blades stop completely.

All this happens in his Presence, lets continue with our ignorance with faith, when it is time, it will be time, none will be here discussing :)

I was questioning thus, but then, it dawned, i am too insignificant, its only prudence to allow things to flow, as it is.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 05:30:17 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

nonduel

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
    • View Profile
Re: Is it The object or The thought -- An Inquiry ?
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2012, 05:34:46 PM »
Thoughts surge by themselves, we do NOT "think" or create a particular thought, it just spontaniously appears in consciousness. If you practice just observing them, you realize that it is an unending chain. Just observing them passively, they pop up and dissolve in silence one after the other.

But we think they are ours and we thus act on them. This brings happiness, guilt, sadness, anger etc...

Happiness is the SELF. Since we think we are something else, like this human body, we think that the thoughts are also ours.

Boundage is also a thought that we "cultivate" and we react with sadhana. Thinking we have to do more to be liberated and the chain of thoughts continues with other thoughts, never ending.

When the mind is silenced, like in deep sleep, where are the thoughts? In the silence between the thoughts, where is the belief of boundage?

The greatest gift that Bhagavan gave us is self-enquiry which turns the mind from the thoughts to the inner silence. There is where happiness is.
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

nonduel

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 292
    • View Profile
Re: Is it The object or The thought -- An Inquiry ?
« Reply #10 on: April 16, 2012, 07:03:14 PM »
Dear Srkudai,

This is a very, very important point that you posted. Much more than it seems!

I understand perfectly what you are saying. Now let's go a little further on this. The first thought is as you pointed out the "I-Thought". This is the though that we identify with..

And accept this as reality, the reality of our existence.

It is also with this thought ("I") that we consider that we are in bondage. It is also a THOUGHT that we ACCEPT. It is the same "processus" we continously use for all the other thoughts.


Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.