Author Topic: What the Gurus and Gods Say  (Read 1676 times)

Nagaraj

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What the Gurus and Gods Say
« on: April 14, 2012, 09:26:49 AM »
Friends,

When you pray to your Guru or your God, Pray, not for Self Realisation, or Kingdom of God, but pray for Peace, Shanti.

The deep core voice of all scriptures of all religions, all Gurus and all messengers of God, is only this, they want you to be happy and peaceful. Period. That is all!

They don't lay any demand on you to find the kingdom of heaven or Self realisation, Nirvana, etc...

Be Peaceful, any way. If you don't want to do Self Enquiry, don't do. If you want to do Self Enquiry, do. Do that which brings you peace. If you don't want to do Japa, don't do, if you want to do Japa, do. Do what brings you peace.

Realise that there is really nothing like Vasanas.

If you want to smoke, smoke, but just don't trouble others, smoke at a place where there is nobody around, you, be sensitive not even to trouble the plants, animals and insects, around you. That is all. This also he says so only because h wants you to be happy, for he says, by harming the plants animals etc.. you are the one who will be guilty and un happy because of it, at some time. Your Gurus and your messenges and your Gods want only your happiness and peace, and, truly not even your prayers. Be happy. That itself is your highest prayer.

If you want to enjoy the pleasures of the world, enjoy so, but only remember not to cause harm in any manner to anybody else around you. Your Gurus and Gods don't want you to not enjoy, they want only your happiness, and that is whay God has given you pleasures and joy of enjoying everything around you. But just don't harm others.

Why God and Gurus stress more on not harming others? because, this also, your Gurus and Gods say so, only for your own happiness and peace, as they say, by harming others, you are only harming yourself. You will feel gulty, sad, at some point of time at least in future, so they say, don't harm others, in any manner, by way of thought, word and deep.

Your Gurus and Gods, only say follow Ahimsa, for yourself and not for others. They don't mean to say, "Do not cause injury to others" they only say,  "Do not cause injury to yourself"

Watch TV if you want, do not wantch TV if you don't want. If you want to be brahmachari, be so, if you don't want to be a brahmachari, don't be so. Do that which brings you happiness.

There is nothing like, one is higher and better than the other. Peace alone is supreme. Be happy, peaceful.

If you want to get married, get married, be happy.

Do all that which truly brings you happiness.

Realise, your Gurus and Gods, is more than your mother. They don't thrust on you anything. Do not feel thrust-ed upon, like, your Gurus and Gods, dont say "Realise Me, Realise God, Realise Atma, Realise, the kingdom of heaven, and so on..." They only want your good, they only want your happiness, nothing at all.

your Gurus Your Gods, dont even say to remember him always, remember your Guru and your God when even you want, don't thrust onto yourself to remember them always. Be happy, if it brings you happiness remembering all time, then please do so.

All that your God, Your Guru wants is your happiness. He only wants you to remember to be happy and at peace, at all times.

Be happy, do what ever you want to be happy. If you really see this secret, then this itself is it!

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 09:37:15 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: What the Gurus and Gods Say
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2012, 10:24:30 AM »
Yes, Sri Nagarajji, but let not forget that there are two "kinds" of happiness - temporary and eternal. Both come from the Self but the second is the Goal everyone looking for. Everyone wants happiness and everyone do whatever he/she can to find it. Even so the called sins are done because of the wanting of being happy.

Happiness cannot be constant if you identify yourself with the body and consider the objects of the world as different entities. That's the teachings of all religions. Lord Jesus explain this very clearly:

Quote
I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Before long, the world will not see Me anymore, but you will see Me. Because I live, you also will live. On that day you will realize that I am in My Father, and you are in Me, and I am in you. Whoever has My commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves Me. He who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I too will love him and show Myself to him.”

But you are right - there is no need of theories to be happy. Who is more fortunate and close to the Tuth - the miserable vedantist or the happy bhakta who has no idea of the complicate theories of the philosophical systems? Being Happy is the Goal, not mere theories. But we need time to realize it.
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Nagaraj

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Re: What the Gurus and Gods Say
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2012, 10:36:05 AM »
Dear Ramana,

yes, but, in that, eternal happiness, comes not by looking for it outside of what is here, now. Happiness is ever constant, if one discerns the true import.

Why does the happiness that we experience is temporal? It is because of the very fact of believing that happiness is derived from something.

Why the happiness becomes temporary in our ordinary day to day affairs? Because, of the demand to want something that is beyond, and which is illusory. That beyond which we expect is illusory. So, one becomes discontent, with what is currently, and looks for beyond, unknown. How can one experience bliss from unknown? it discerns that all happiness Ananda bliss is from what is very much known.

We make what is here, now, so tiny and because of our demand to want something that is beyond, by making the beyond a huge mammoth attainment. We build unreasonable desires out of ignorance. We begin to fancy the words of Gurus Gods, with our own fancies.

A Rose is just a Rose, but if we give it to a poet, he would write a thesis on the rose with 1000 pages, and rose would become something beyond then.

Its here, now. Its simple. One has to be aware of not getting lost to beyond.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: What the Gurus and Gods Say
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2012, 11:04:26 AM »
Outside you said. Where is outside, where is inside? We always talk about the Heart, that the world is within us and so on. But where is this within? In our body or mind or intellect? There is no within, there is no without. If you see the Lord everywhere, where are these categorizations? If we take a volume of air and mentally divide it into 5000 equal parts where is their borderline - in the mind! We do the same with the Reality. Not objects are our obsticle but considering them as objects. Names and forms are not the problem but considering them as not-Self. "But they cannot be the Self. The Self is eternal, they are temporal.". But even the Scriptures very often say that one who sees the Self in everything is beyond duality. The very notion "forms are not the Self" is the duality. The ignorance is not that we see the world and consider it as "real" but the notion that it is separable entity. Jnani sees the world as waves in the ocean (the Self). The waves and the Ocean are equally real but the notion that they are separate entities is the unreality. Unreality is in the mind, not in the experience. We are always the Self.

Best wishes, ramana1359
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Nagaraj

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Re: What the Gurus and Gods Say
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2012, 11:11:08 AM »
That is what I am saying,

drop off the outside, inside, heart, non heart, within, without, self, non self, duality, non duality, seeing, non seeing, being, non being, reality, unreality, etc... drop of interpreations. i don't want to say 'just be' as well. drop off even understading the difference between Just being and not just being. free, from everything.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: What the Gurus and Gods Say
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2012, 11:24:31 AM »
Absolutely. And every day in recent past leads me to this conclusion. Now I realize what is just "being". I thought that "being" is something extraordinary. That I must stop seeing the world, that I must feel something strange, that specific methor or religion can bring you happiness so on and so on. Suddenly I realized how could that be? To be means just to be. But how can just being be explained. It cannot. "Just being" is just that - to be free of all explanations and notions. At this very moment when you drop all notions, fears, doubts, do's and don't's you start feel freedom and happiness. It is then when japa or Self-inquiry or chanting or eating or whatever "brings" you happiness.
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Subramanian.R

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Re: What the Gurus and Gods Say
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2012, 02:20:08 PM »

Dear ramana,

Peace is another name for Mukti says Sri Bhagavan. What we need is Peace and for that we should first jettison desires, if not
quickly but slowly and steadily.  An IIM Graduate who was drawing five figure salary in dollars in United States, came back one
day to India and is now selling vegetables on a moving vending cart outside Patna.  (I do not remember his name. It came in
IIM Alumni Magazine). He said in one sentence:

I have sold my dollars and got Peace.

This is the essence. Dispassion itself is Jnana says Sri Bhagavan in Who am I?

Arunachala Siva.     

Hari

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Re: What the Gurus and Gods Say
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2012, 02:45:15 PM »
Desirelessness is very peculiar topic, Sri Subramanianji. We always say "we must shun from desires" but it is not always best option in my experience. Sometimes if you don't satisfy your current desire you cannot function normally and even do your sadhana. I can give you two common examples. All of us are able to live only on simple food but we always try to make our dish more savoury, we put as much as it can takes different foods. If we stop eating like we used to then our mind become irritative, restless, lack of concentration and so on. If you have very strong sexual drive you cannot function normally, you are always horny, your mind is full of lustful thoughts, you cannot concentrate on anything other and so on. So desirelessness is not giving up something trying to avoid it (althought it is necessary too) but to stop desiring it by Lord's Grace. It is hypocracy to yourself if you preach how healthful is to be vegetarian and at the same time at home to stuff yourself with pork meat. Or to say that the "rightous" man or woman should not think of another woman or man or that he/she must be celibate and at the same time you see the computer of this preacher is full of porn movies.

We cannot stop desire. We cannot shun it. Desire is following us everywhere. it is very strong. That's why people say that defeating ourselves is the most diffucult task, more difficult even from conquering some giant. This is demonstrated by Bible story where David kills Goliath by sling. Then cut of his head. David is ourselves, Goliath is the desire. The sling is our sadhana and Guru's (God's) Grace. We cannot kill the desire alone.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 02:47:31 PM by ramana1359 »
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Subramanian.R

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Re: What the Gurus and Gods Say
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2012, 03:45:49 PM »
Dear ramana,

It is with everybody not only for you. First stop the desires for luxuries. No second car if you already have one. No second cell phone
if you already have one. No shirts and trousers beyond say six pairs. Only two pairs of shoes. A simple TV is sufficient. No wall TV
and no door TV.  If you can walk a distance, do not take an autorickshaw. If you can manage with 2 chappattis do not ask for the third.
Luxuries like ice creams can be reduced and brought to Nil. No science magazine says Ice Creams are good.  There are many like these.
I have been managing with four trousers and four shirts for the past four years. No shoes after leaving the job. Only chappals.

No micro oven at home. My wife manages with six sarees and the other materials to suit. One or two silk sarees for marriage functions.
Only coffee for three or at best four times on a day. No curds. Only buttermilk always.

One can slowly remove the luxuries and manage with essentials only.  This will take us to desirelessness in due course.

The only area where I am not able to minimize - is books. This Sastra Vasana would  also drop off one day!

Arunachala Siva.   
     

nonduel

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Re: What the Gurus and Gods Say
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2012, 05:31:51 PM »
Dear Subramanian ji,

I know about your interest in books and you have mentionned this before. But my dear Subramanian just think if you hadn't read all these books what a great lost it would be for all of us here.

You are a storehouse of spiritual knowledge, an encyclopaedia. Thank you for sharing it with all of us.

Bhagavan must be behind this!!! ;D
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Nagaraj

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Re: What the Gurus and Gods Say
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2012, 05:39:46 PM »
Dear Nondual,

Very true,  :) and I wish, Subramanian Sir, resumes posting some new topics as well. We used to enjoy his short and sweet stories of Bhagavan. He had stopped posting new topics due to some call from within. But, I feel, he could do so, share wonderful leelas of Bhagavan once again. When it has to stop, it will stop on its own accord.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: What the Gurus and Gods Say
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2012, 05:59:39 PM »
Dear nonduel,

At least now I have stopped buying more books. Excepting new publications of Sri Ramanasramam if any and Tevaram meaning and\
commentary.  But Sri Bhagavan says even sastra vasana is bad and there is no point in reading books endlessly.

Dear Nagaraj,

There is remote chance of my writing original posts. The call within continues to say so.

Arunachala Siva.   

Beloved Abstract

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Re: What the Gurus and Gods Say
« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2012, 10:04:15 PM »
who is this "we" ?   who is this "i" ?    :)
since the we and the i are only stories in the mind ... happiness of this we and i is also just part of the story
there is no need to drop anything ... all is included in truth

simply stop telling the story of the self and see who you are without it