Author Topic: Bhagavad Gita online  (Read 15564 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavad Gita online
« Reply #30 on: April 13, 2012, 10:04:59 PM »
Nagaraj/Friends,
Quote
"We are content or mostly, we don't know more than what Ramanujacharya has observed."
Missed commenting on this one.To think of knowing more than Sri Ramanujacharya!I do not consider that anyone else knows more than that-be it be Sri Sankara or Sri Ramakrishna or Sri Bhagavan or Sri Aurobindo.We only need to bear in my mind that these are not 'individual' achievements.All Love,Knowledge are in God alone.

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagavad Gita online
« Reply #31 on: April 14, 2012, 08:39:02 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Quote
"We are content or mostly, we don't know more than what Ramanujacharya has observed."
Missed commenting on this one.To think of knowing more than Sri Ramanujacharya!I do not consider that anyone else knows more than that-be it be Sri Sankara or Sri Ramakrishna or Sri Bhagavan or Sri Aurobindo.We only need to bear in my mind that these are not 'individual' achievements.All Love,Knowledge are in God alone.
Namaskar.

The spirit was surely not like "trying to know more than Sri Ramanujacharya"  :D or just any body else...  I was trying to observe that we are getting lost in "Tatvas" unconsciously, we somehow refuse to move on, and stay put with tatvas. We all would have experienced it, most times, after some heavy discussions on Tatvas, no matter how great it may be, when we becomre fatigued out, even sleeping for some time, would bestow such peace, just shutting down the computer and being, would give such immense peace. truth itself was spoiling Truth. Knwoledge is bigger ignorance than ignorance itself.

It is not even about achievements, that i was observing about. It is the real paradox that i have observed,  that has landed in a state of complete "not knowing"

Like what Socratus has said "All that i know is the fact of my not knowing"

How insignificant we are, in the scheme of things, how insignificant we are before the "tatvas"

Ultimatley, i truly believe it is peace alone that matters, even more than any scriptures, terms of truth, we have to be at peace with what ever is. What ever is, is, as it is. We have nothing to do with it.

The awful daring of a moment's surrender
Which an age of prudence can never retract
By this, and this only, we have existed.

(T S Eliiot)

Shanti Shanti Shanti :)

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 08:40:58 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagavad Gita online
« Reply #32 on: April 14, 2012, 08:45:00 AM »
At some point, i see, perhaps discern, we have to even give up Our Guru with his teachings, and, just accept Him, without any baggage, plain, simple, as a perfect layman. He is our Guru, who takes away everything, even all knowledge...

I have observed, even seeing our Gurus as somebody of great knowledge, all knowing, great Brahma Jnani, Brahma Nishta etc... is in some ways problematic.

After knowing our Gurus, i guess, at some point when we are really, at peace, we should give away all our books and remain. Noo Tatvas, No Siddhantas, no nothing, No this, No that, just

Knowledge is great bondage...

theLivu guruvin thirumEni kANDal
theLivu guruvin thirunAmam ceppal
theLivu guruvin thiruvArththai kETTal
theLivu guruvuru cinthiththal thAnE.

Clarity is seeing the holy Body of guru;
Clarity is saying the holy Name of guru;
Clarity is listening to the holy Words of guru;
Clarity is contemplating on the holy Form of guru.

Do we need anything more? really?  But this makes so much sense only after realising the futility of all knowledge.

Like Chinmayananda says somewhere, one can only renounce only after one has earned millions... (not exact phrase) Before that what one has to renounce...  :)

Knowledge is worst than even ignorance... ignorance reveals itself instantly, but this knowledge-ignorance, hides iself as perfect knowledge...dangerous fellow is this knowledge-ignorance

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 08:50:49 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagavad Gita online
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2012, 08:55:15 AM »
Sri Ravi,

Are we ready yet, to accept that there is really nothing to do? the truth is so ordinary, that we are unable to accept the ordinary-ness of what is.

We want something more... we just are not content, "is that all, there should be something more to this" goes unconsciously...

"One goes through all sorts of austerities to become what one already is." - Bhagavan

Funny, as we don't want to accept this, until we travel, we do all those austerities, all those struggles, all those mental masturbation, all those games of knowledge and ignorance, etc...

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavad Gita online
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2012, 09:53:48 AM »
Nagaraj/Friends,

Quote
"Are we ready yet, to accept that there is really nothing to do? the truth is so ordinary, that we are unable to accept the ordinary-ness of what is."

I do not subscribe to this view,because these  are  thoughts!We only need to reckon the immensity of this 'Ordinariness' which made the Upanishadic seer exclaim-'Vedahamehtam purusham mahantam,Aditya varnam Tamasah parastat'.Simply speaking,The Infinte is beyond the realms of 'Ordinary' and 'Extraordinary'.

Quote
Quote
"One goes through all sorts of austerities to become what one already is."-Sri Bhagavan
This has to be understood,not as a thought but experientially.It is not as if one came Back to where he started from.

Quote
Clarity is seeing the holy Body of guru;
Clarity is saying the holy Name of guru;
Clarity is listening to the holy Words of guru;
Clarity is contemplating on the holy Form of guru

Precisely.Here Tirumular is trying to point to what Clarity is.It is not clarity as we imagine clarity to be-'that the truth is so ordinary, that we are unable to accept the ordinary-ness of what is'!'

Quote
Knowledge is worst than even ignorance... ignorance reveals itself instantly, but this knowledge-ignorance, hides iself as perfect knowledge...dangerous fellow is this knowledge-ignorance
I have also been emphasizing the same.We may have seen the crow fluttering its wings rapidly to gain height and then perform a Glide(with its wings spread).It lands on a tree top in the smug belief that it has done a sortie of an Eagle.Little does it know that that the Eagle is gliding at will at a great Height,borne upward by buoyancy of the wind on its wings.Most aspirants imagine that they are in the 'Just be' state or 'There is nothing to be done',etc.I have seen learned Swamijis caught in this belief.This belief is propagated as 'Yajnya'.

I agree with you that Guru is a Tatva and personality cults are dangerous and detrimental.Devotion to the Guru is onething and admiration and attachment to the Guru is another.

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Bhagavad Gita online
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2012, 10:19:28 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Do we realise, that the problem begins, this:

Quote
Simply speaking,The Infinte is beyond the realms of 'Ordinary' and 'Extraordinary'.

at putting the truth elsewhere, terming it as something, beyond ordinary and extra ordinary? We are in timeless search of this infinite.

This "beyond" thing is only the true real Maya. There is no beyond, nothing beyond, than what is now, here. This only is "Vasthvam"

Truth, happiness, everything is here, is its pristinity, only the demand for want of a higher better truth is the real problem.

I do not intend to term it as 'ordinary' but it is just done so to lay stress on the fact of the truth, not being something more than what is, here, as it is, and not something better than what currently is.

It discerns that the demand to search supercedes than the truth itself.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 10:21:43 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavad Gita online
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2012, 10:37:01 AM »
Nagaraj/Friends,
I have spoken about what little I know of.Please do not allow that to distract you.If you have found something better,please Go ahead.Godspeed to you.
Wishing you all the Very Best.
Namaskar.

nonduel

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Re: Bhagavad Gita online
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2012, 07:35:39 PM »
The "just being state" and "doing".

Most aspirants imagine that they are in the 'Just be' state or 'There is nothing to be done',etc.I have seen learned Swamijis caught in this belief.This belief is propagated as 'Yajnya'.

The duality dilema!

It is true that there is no effort in just being, but at the same time you have to DO self-enquiry. It's a doing without effort!!
Oh Arunachala, blazing fire of Jnana, in my heart I pray and think of Thee from afar, root out the ego, merging me in the Self.

Hari

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Re: Bhagavad Gita online
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2012, 08:27:29 PM »
All these talks are only because non of us want to surrender and inquire to one's Being. To some of you this may sound funny but it is true. I really hope all of you to understand me right. I don't judge or anything. I am just trying to help you sharing my thoughts (which of course may be wrong).

What I have in mind is that no matter what words or theories we share we are ignorant. The Knowledge all Saints are talking about, the so called jnana (Hindu), gnosis (Christians) or daat (Kabbalists) is to know our Self. If you do it no more questions will arise. All is the Self, all is God. There is no duality. In Guru Vachaka Kovai is stated:

Quote
47. This world which appears, concealing Self, is a mere dream, but when ‘concealed’ by Self, it remains as none other than Self.

48. This whole world of triads which deludes us, seeming to be an undisputable reality, is only the form of the Supreme Power [Chit-Shakti], which abides eternally as none other than the Supreme Self.

50. For those who never lose the True Knowledge of Self, which is the base of all sense-knowledge, the world also is nothing other than Self-Knowledge. But, how can an ordinary man, who has not gained Self-knowledge, understand the statement of Sages who, seeing through Jnana, say that the world is real?

51. Those who have given up worldly [i.e. sense-] knowledge and attachment to it, and who have destroyed the evil force of mind [i.e. Maya], thus gaining Supreme Self-Consciousness, alone can know the correct meaning of the statement, “The world is Real”.

The experience of the bhakta is the same as the experience of the jnani but they call it sometime in different way. Those who say that all is God do not contradict with jnanis who say that there is only the Self. Can you see? All our discussion is based on whether the world is real and according to the answer of this question - how to behave. None of us can understand the real jnani and the real bhakta. The Supreme Lord in the Form of Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad Gita that Jnana yoga and Bhakti yoga lead to the same. If you don't believe in the Saints' words, believe in the Lord's.

The knowledge mentioned here is not intellectual but experiential. Non of us would have this knowledge if we are looking for it by the intellect.

As I said in the beginning the cause for all these conversations is our reslessness, of our mind bouncing here and there and not wanting to be drawn to the Source. It is like a man who have a toothache and fear of dentists and every day he says "I will go to the dentists later or tomorrow".

One of the cause for the lack of surrender is too little faith. Not to mention that many following jnana say that God or Guru is unreal. How one to surrender to a Person who he/she subconsciously consider unreal. In my opinion many choose jnana marga because of their fat ego because jnana teach "You are the Supreme" and ego only waits to hear that but not realizing that jnanis don't talk about it (the ego) but about the Atman.

Most of us more talk about Self-inqiury than practice it (I don't talk about you but generally). That again is because of the ego. It gets fatter because it considers itself that it knows the supreme path (jnana yoga) and the supreme method (Self-inquiry) by the Supreme Guru (Guru Ramana). It's getting fatter and fatter and fatter. But in reality we are falling down. We are just talking and do nothing. Even some "jnanis" justify their inactivity by saying "there is nothing to be done". This is wrong.

Analyze yourself, analyze where are you now. Stop saying "I am the Self. I am always realized". No, you are not.

Best wishes, ramana1359
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Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavad Gita online
« Reply #39 on: April 14, 2012, 08:52:46 PM »
nonduel/friends,

Quote
"It is true that there is no effort in just being, but at the same time you have to DO self-enquiry. It's a doing without effort!"

Yes,friend.This is a sign that the mind free from distractions is loving what it is doing.

Here are a few excerpts from the Gospel of sri Ramakrishna that shows what it means to 'Just be',to be in the state of jnana:
Quote
"To follow jnanayoga in this age is also very difficult. First, a man's life depends entirely
on food. Second, he has a short span of life. Third, he can by no means get rid of bodyconsciousness;
and the Knowledge of Brahman is impossible without the destruction of
body-consciousness
. The jnani says: 'I am Brahman; I am not the body. I am beyond hunger
and thirst, disease and grief, birth and death, pleasure and pain.' How can you be a jnani if
you are conscious of disease, grief, pain, pleasure, and the like? A thorn enters your flesh,
blood flow from the wound, and you suffer very badly from the pain; but nevertheless, if
you are a jnani you must be able to say: 'Why, there is no thorn in my flesh at all. Nothing
is the matter with me'

Quote
Jeevanmukta & Separation of body and soul
"He who has attained this Knowledge of Brahman is a jivanmukta, liberated while living in
the body. He rightly understand that the Atman and the body are two separate things. After
realizing God one does not identify the Atman with the body. These two are separate, like
the kernel and the shell of the coconut when its milk dries up. The Atman moves, as it
were, within the body. When the 'milk' of worldly-mindedness has dried up, one gets Selfknowledge.
Then one feels that Atman and body are two separate things. The kernel of a
green almond or betel-nut cannot be separated from the shell; but when they are ripe the
juice dries up and the kernel separates from the shell.
After the attainment of the
Knowledge of Brahman, the 'milk' of worldly-mindedness dries up.
"But it is extremely difficult to attain the Knowledge of Brahman. One doesn't get it by
merely talking about it. Some people feign it.
(Smiling) There was a man who was a great
liar; but, on the other hand, he used to say he had the Knowledge of Brahman. When
someone took him to task for telling lies, he said: 'Why, this world is truly like a dream. If
everything is unreal, then can truth itself be real? Truth is as unreal as falsehood.'" (All
laugh.)

Quote
"Once Krishnakishore asked me, 'Why have you cast off the sacred thread?' In those days
of God-vision I felt as if I were passing through the great storm of Aswin, and everything
had blown away from me. No trace of my old self was left. I lost all consciousness of the
world. I could hardly keep my cloth on my body, not to speak of the sacred thread!

The test of jnana is not whether 'I' is there or not.It is the absence of identification with the body.This is what Sri Bhagavan went through when he was in the patala linga when his body was eaten by insects and worms.It is what happened to sri Ramakrishna when he spent 6 months in the Nirvikalpa Samadhi ,totally unaware of his body.How Sri Bhagavan underwent surgery without any anaesthesia! How Sri Ramakrishna when down with Throat cancer,unable to even swallow Liquids could not bring himself to wish that the body should recover-How the Divine Mother(Sri Ramakrishna!)told him-'Is it not enough that you are eating through other mouths'!
I am not saying that all need to be like this-at the same time,it does give an idea of what Jnana or the state of 'summa Iru' is.This is the order of immensity.

There are many seekers who get caught on the way with a little peace ,a little vastness ,a little quietude-and they think that they have arrived.One only needs to consolidate this quietude and this is jnana for them.

This is why sri Bhagavan never taught the 'Just Be' teaching.He only stressed 'self-enquiry' and to trace the source of the Mind .

Similiarly Sri Ramakrishna narrated this parable:
Quote
The story of the wood-cutter
"Once upon a time a wood-cutter went into a forest to chop wood. There suddenly he met a
brahmachari. The holy man said to him, 'My good man, go forward.' On returning home the
wood-cutter asked himself, 'Why did the brahmachari tell me to go forward?' Some time
passed. One day he remembered the brahmachari's words. He said to himself, 'Today I shall
go deeper into the forest.' Going deep into the forest, he discovered innumerable sandalwood
trees. He was very happy and returned with cart-loads of sandal-wood. He sold them
in the market and became very rich.
"A few days later he again remembered the words of the holy man to go forward. He went
deeper into the forest and discovered a silver-mine near a river. This was even beyond his
dreams. He dug out silver from the mine and sold it in the market. He got so much money
that he didn't even know how much he had.
"A few more days passed. One day he thought: 'The brahmachari didn't ask me to stop at
the silver-mine; he told me to go forward.' This time he went to the other side of the river
and found a gold-mine. Then he exclaimed: 'Ah, just see! This is why he asked me to go
forward.'
"Again, a few days afterwards, he went still deeper into the forest and found heaps of
diamonds and other precious gems. He took these also and became as rich as the god of
wealth himself.
Go forward
"Therefore I say that, whatever you may do, you will find better and better things if only
you go forward. You may feel a little ecstasy as the result of japa, but don't conclude from
this that you have achieved everything in spiritual life. Work is by no means the goal of
life. Go forward, and then you will be able to perform unselfish work. But again I say that it
is most difficult to perform unselfish work. Therefore with love and longing in your heart
pray to God: 'O God, grant me devotion at Thy Lotus Feet and reduce my worldly duties.
Please grant me the boon that the few duties I must do may be done in a detached spirit.' If
you go still farther you will realize God.
You will see Him. In time you will converse with Him.
"

If we get stuck somewhere,we cannot throw the towel and call all this as unnecessary.It just means that we are striving in an egoistic way-we are still not recognizing the role of Grace.We are stuck on account of this.It is the wind of Grace that can carry us home.

Wishing you the very Best.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Bhagavad Gita online
« Reply #40 on: April 14, 2012, 09:44:47 PM »
Ramana,

Quote
"It is like a man who have a toothache and fear of dentists and every day he says "I will go to the dentists later or tomorrow"

 :) Looks like Toothache is linked with jnana! :)

There is a humorous anecdote that Sri Nochur Venkatraman narrated.It seems that one person came to him and enquired about the efficacy of Transcendental Meditation.Nochur told him that he only knew 'Dental Meditation' and this is truly effective.
'What is Dental Meditation?' asked the other person.
'It is what Sri Ramakrishna taught ' said Nochur and told him this saying of Sri Ramakrishna:
Quote
MASTER:"One can meditate even with eyes open. One can meditate even while talking. Take the
case of a man with toothache
.
TUTOR OF THE TAGORES: "Yes, sir. I know that very well." (All laugh.)
MASTER (smiling): "Yes, even when his teeth ache he does all his duties,but his mind is
on the pain. Likewise one can meditate with eyes open and while talking to others as well."
:)
Namaskar.

Hari

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Re: Bhagavad Gita online
« Reply #41 on: April 14, 2012, 10:06:17 PM »
Quote
:) Looks like Toothache is linked with jnana! :)

Yes, in the way that lack of jnana leads to samsara (toothache). We prefer to be in pain rather than follow Guru and His teachings (the dentist) and be free. We always excuse saying "Later or tomorrow". Most people pospone their sadhana all their life, others even forget about what they have promised to themselves to do. Others do it occasionally only when they feel sad, depressed or some dramatic event reminds them about cruelty of the world :)

Quote
MASTER:"One can meditate even with eyes open. One can meditate even while talking. Take the
case of a man with toothache.
TUTOR OF THE TAGORES: "Yes, sir. I know that very well." (All laugh.)
MASTER (smiling): "Yes, even when his teeth ache he does all his duties,but his mind is
on the pain. Likewise one can meditate with eyes open and while talking to others as well."

Really true. :)
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Subramanian.R

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Re: Bhagavad Gita online
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2012, 01:40:34 PM »
dear Ravi, Ramana,

Not a directly related story, but somewhat the same. Once a devotee asked Sri Bhagavan: Bhagavan! Can I swat the mosquito
that stings me during meditation?  Or should I leave it as it is?

Sri Bhagavan smilingly replied: You can swat the mosquito. For that act, mukti will not be denied to you. You can also leave
it as it is. For that act, mukti will not be given to you.  In true meditation, one will not even experience whether a mosquito
is sitting on your body and it is stinging you!


Arunachala Siva.