Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 284456 times)

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2340 on: December 14, 2017, 07:33:45 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi


Thanks for the inputs regarding Gayathri Mantra . Sringeri Acharya Sri Chandrasekhara Bharati Swamigal has given an excellent explanation as how the daily Sandhya Worship itself is more than enough for atma gynana ( first stage (as young boys ) we do it ritualistically i.e mechanically worshiping the physical sun  then next stage we do it as a upasana and the last stage ( after understanding its meaning ) we do it as a Niddhidhaysana directing our attention to the Atma which is the inner sun  ) .
BTW Sri Chandrasekhara Bharati Swamigal also mentions that each and every work of Adi Shankara be it small like ( eka shloki with just one verse ) or large like Upadesa Sahasri ( 1000 verses )  has the same subject matter and if you understand even the ekashloki properly no need to study other texts . My Vedanta Guru Swami Paramarthananda also says the same i.e you have to understand the real meaning of the Maha Vakyas ( I am Brahman ) and if you are able to get this understanding from a simple text or a small upanishad the work is over and rest of the time you have to start owning up to this knowledge through Niddhidhaysana . Ripe students get this understanding very quickly but for the majority it is usually a long process of study and reflection over many years .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

srkudai

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2341 on: December 14, 2017, 10:45:50 AM »
Dear Ravi ji,
       :)

Thank you very much for the wonderful post on Gayatri.
I do not really remember if I read this conversation of Bhagavan, but somehow intuitively it clicked really well when i read this from you today.

I have been sitting with Gayathri Mantra Dhyana every day and I do see how powerful it is. Infact i was intuitively feeling that it is drawing me inside ... deeper by each chant ... and almost as if "am i chanting ?" or "is it that some power is making me do it and drawing me in" !

What can it be if not Self Inquiry ?

I completely agree with this:

Quote
Meditation is to merge the mind in this reality by dwelling on this essence of pure consciousness...and this is something that can be done only by invoking the grace and it is this 'anu-graha' that can bring about this (graha refers to this pulling power)....it is the power of the Self that has to effect this.


I think all practices culminate into Self Inquiry. Suppose someone were to imagine a God in heart and meditate on the God , eventually as he gets absorbed , he is left in Just Be State. And if he holds onto the wrong idea that god is a specific form, that gets cleared eventually through the grace.

Grace is very powerful. I was listening to Nochur Venkataraman ji and he speaks Atma Darshanam, Ishvara Darshanam and Krpa Darshanam or the darshanam of Grace - and  Krpa is the highest actually .

The point is I may dissolve in Self / Awareness [or God] by chanting Rama nama
or I may keep concentrating on the "I AM" and retain my "individuality"
It is not what method i choose , but whether i dissolve or not that matters.
if i am using the method to dissolve the individuality in the Presence/God ... that is Self Inquiry. Since the individuality is dissolved there is nothing more to do and that is Just Be.

if i use the same method and retain the individuality in a subtle way ... the best sign that this is the case is that i am not relaxing enough , or i am not mindful enough... when this is the case, it is not self inquiry.



Love!
Silence

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2342 on: December 14, 2017, 03:35:29 PM »
Atmavichar,
" Sringeri Acharya Sri Chandrasekhara Bharati Swamigal has given an excellent explanation as how the daily Sandhya Worship itself is more than enough for atma gynana"
Yes...Thanks to you I came across the wonderful book 'Dialogues with the guru'...I have gone through the conversation that you have alluded to in that book...The great Acharya presents it in a crystal clear fashion and the way he conducts the dialogue with great empathy and understanding is a model lesson in itself...Truly a great sage and a rare one at that indeed.
As for what Swami Paramarthananda had said...yes it is indeed very true...the mahavakyas are quite potent for the initiated ripe ones...they are not to be handled like a self prescribed over the counter medicine!...these days everything is made available over the counter and almost everyone thinks that he/she can pick up whatever one finds interesting and appealing and use it the way as one pleases...in a way this is good as long as it makes people interested in spiritual fare and encourages them to explore and pursue it.
namaskar

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2343 on: December 14, 2017, 04:02:18 PM »
udai garu,
"It is not what method i choose , but whether i dissolve or not that matters"
You may be interested in the post on July 16,2017 in the thread 'Practical Hints on Sadhana from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna':
http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=8446.15

In verse 10 of Upadesa Undhiyar(Upadesa saram),Sri Bhagavan expresses this very thing:
To subside in the source and abide there,
(this) is karma bhakti
(this) is yoga jnana
.

Swami Vivekananda says the same thing:
Each soul is potentially divine. The goal is to manifest this divinity by controlling nature, external and internal. Do this either by work, or worship, or psychic control, or philosophy - by one, or more, or all of these - and be free. This is the whole of religion. Doctrines, or dogmas, or rituals, or books, or temples, or forms, are but secondary details.

namaskar

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2344 on: December 14, 2017, 04:33:26 PM »
Udai/Anil/friends,
Udai rightly mentioned a couple of times regarding conditioning and how by slowing down and observing what is taking place one can gain clarity(I have paraphrased)...this is indeed a useful thing to do in the course of our discussions as well...it will help if we give space and time for each other to understand what we are trying to convey...and it will be better to give a simple statement of what we wish to convey rather than proceeding in a question answer fashion...yes,the questions can be helpful after we have ascertained that we are on the same page to view the questions objectively.
In a lighter vein,am reminded of the joke...A tamilian visited Andhra Pradesh(during the pre split times!) and boarded a bus...the bus was crowded and he had to stand near the door and as the bus halted at the next stop,a Telungu passenger with an umbrella in hand got down hurriedly and the handle of the umbrella got hooked to the ear of the tamilian who howled in pain 'Kaadhu' 'Kaadhu'(meaning 'Ear' 'Ear')...The Andhra man thinking that the other man was referring to the umbrella(kaadhu means umbrella in Telungu) responded 'naadhu,nasdhu' (mine ,mine).
I know kaadhu means 'ear' in tamizh...not sure whether it is umbrella in Telungu but this is how the joke got shared...Udai will be in a position to validate this as he knows Telungu..I see a parallel to this sort of a thing in the ongoing discussion in the other thread...ha ha.
namaskar

srkudai

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2345 on: December 14, 2017, 04:55:17 PM »
Dear Ravi ji,
          :)

Nice joke.

In telugu umberella is called "Godugu" .

Most of our disagreements are definitely vocabulary differences , i have no doubts about that.

that said, there is really no need to take these discussions or disagreements too seriously. I treat my day to day life as a long dream, these discussions are even less real if at all. When there is sincerity , even if there are a few wrong ideas, those will soon dissolve in the presence of God. infact some times different views may help people at different stages of life as well.

I have heard the story of Bilvamangala. He was so attracted to a prostitute that once when there was a storm and very heavy rains he could not but meet the prostitute. so he went in dark night and along the way he found a boat to cross a small lake/pond and then he reached there to and caught hold of a rope hanging from her balcony to reach her, since she could not hear the door knock.
the bewildered lady asked "how did you reach here"
and he explained the whole story. when they went here to see they saw a python hanging from the balcony , it was not a rope. and then they saw a dead body for the boat. she simply said "even a little bit of this kind of attraction for God would have liberated you"
and that one comment changed his life for ever.

yes all that attachment was unreal ... but even all these statements are unreal... ultimately what matters is somehow one wades  their way through all this and dissolves in the Self to live in bliss ever after.

Love!
Silence


 

 


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2346 on: December 14, 2017, 05:29:42 PM »
udai garu,
" I was listening to Nochur Venkataraman ji and he speaks Atma Darshanam, Ishvara Darshanam and Krpa Darshanam or the darshanam of Grace - and  Krpa is the highest actually "
Listening to him is a great opportunity...He is Hyderabad now and talking on 'Adhyatmadeepam' (day 5 today)...It is viewable on youtube live now(18:30 hrs):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dv8fbrdPlIo
namaskar

srkudai

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2347 on: December 14, 2017, 05:33:11 PM »
Yes Ravi ji,
    I heard his talks on Aksharamanimalai. i cannot understanding tamil, so have heard the english lectures.
even my father was deeply impressed listening to his lectures
it has definitely changed me a lot.

Love!
Silence

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2348 on: December 15, 2017, 09:35:54 PM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2349 on: December 17, 2017, 07:20:03 AM »
Guru Perumai 

Source : From a  FB Post
A young man in his mid-twenties knocks on the door of a renowned Guru. He says: ?I?ve come to you because I wish to study Vedas.?

?Do you know Sanskrit?? the Guru asks.

?No,? replies the young man.

?Have you studied any Indian philosophy??

?No. But don?t worry. I just finished my doctoral dissertation at Harvard on Socratic logic. So now, I would just like to round out my education with a little study of the Vedas.?

?I doubt,? the Guru says, ?that you are ready to study Vedas. It is the deepest knowledge ever known. If you wish, however, I am willing to examine you in logic, and if you pass that test I will teach you Vedas.?

The young man agrees.

Guru holds up two fingers. ?Two men come down a chimney. One comes out with a clean face; the other comes out with a dirty face. Which one washes his face??

The young man stares at the Guru. ?Is that really a test in logic??
The Guru nods.

?The one with the dirty face washes his face?- he answers confidently.

?Wrong. The one with the clean face washes his face. Examine the logic. The one with the dirty face looks at the one with the clean face and thinks his face is clean. The one with the clean face looks at the one with the dirty face and thinks his face is dirty. So, the one with the clean face washes his face.?

?Very clever,? the young man says. ?Give me another test.?

The Guru again holds up two fingers. ?Two men come down a chimney. One comes out with a clean face, the other comes out with a dirty face. Which one washes his face??

?We have already established that. The one with the clean face washes his face.?

?Wrong. Each one washes his face. Examine the logic. The one with the dirty face looks at the one with the clean face and thinks his face is clean. The one with the clean face looks at the one with the dirty face and thinks his face is dirty. So, the one with the clean face washes his face. When the one with the dirty face sees the one with the clean face wash his face, he also washes his face. So, each one washes his face.?

?I didn?t think of that,? says the young man. It?s shocking to me that I could make an error in logic. Test me again.?

The Guru holds up two fingers. ?Two men come down a chimney. One comes out with a clean face; the other comes out with a dirty face. Which one washes his face??

?Each one washes his face.?

?Wrong. Neither one washes his face. Examine the logic. The one with the dirty face looks at the one with the clean face and thinks his face is clean. The one with the clean face looks at the one with the dirty face and thinks his face is dirty. But when the one with the clean face sees the one with the dirty face doesn?t wash his face, he also doesn?t wash his face. So, neither one washes his face.?

The young man is desperate. ?I am qualified to study Vedas. Please give me one more test.?

He groans, though, when the Guru lifts two fingers. ?Two men come down a chimney. One comes out with a clean face; the other comes out with a dirty face. Which one washes his face??
?Neither one washes his face.?

?Wrong. Do you now see why logic is an insufficient basis for studying Vedas? Tell me, how is it possible for two men to come down the same chimney, and for one to come out with a clean face and the other with a dirty face? Don?t you see? The whole question is nonsense, foolishness, and if you spend your whole life trying to answer foolish questions, all your answers will be foolish, too.?

May we all have the wisdom to ask, and answer, the wise questions!
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2350 on: December 27, 2017, 09:53:34 AM »
ANNAMALAI SWAMI - FINAL TALKS

The ego that thinks, 'I must do this,' or, 'I should not do that,' is no longer there. The Self simply animates you and makes you do all the things that need to be done. If you are not in this state, then use your discrimination wisely.

You can choose to sit in a flower garden and enjoy the scent of the blooms, or you can go down to that trench I told you about and make yourself sick by inhaling the fumes there.

So, while you still have an ego, and the power of discrimination that goes with it, use it to inhale the fragrance that you find in the presence of an enlightened being. If you spend time in the proximity of a jnani, his peace will sink into you to such an extent that you will find yourself in a state of peace.

If instead, you choose to spend all your time with people whose minds are always full of bad thoughts, their mental energy and vibrations will start to seep into you.

I tell you regularly, 'You are the Self. Everything is the Self.' If this is not your experience, pretending that 'all is one' may get you into trouble. Advaita may be the ultimate experience, but it is not something that a mind that still sees distinctions can practice.

Electricity is a useful form of energy, but it is also potentially harmful. Use it wisely. Don't put your finger in the socket, thinking,
?All is one.'

You need a body that is in good working order in order to realize the Self. Realizing the Self is the only useful and worthy activity in this life, so keep the body in good repair till that goal is achieved.

Afterwards, the Self will take care of everything and you won't have to worry about anything anymore. In fact, you won't be able to because the mind that previously did the worrying, the choosing and the discriminating will no longer be there. In that state, you won't need it and you won't miss it.

P. 25
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2351 on: December 28, 2017, 06:44:49 PM »
ANNAMALAI SWAMI ? FINAL TALKS

Question: How do I give up identification with the body, particularly when I am not in front of Swami? I keep practicing, but I don't have that experience.

Annamalai Swami: Meditate ?I am the Self?. If you do this, the idea that you are the body will go.

'I am the Self? is still an idea, and as such, it belongs in maya, along with all other ideas. But you can begin to conquer maya by giving up utterly wrong ideas that bind you and cause you trouble.

How to do this? Replace them with ideas that are a better reflection of the truth, and which are helpful in leading you towards that truth. If you want to cut iron, you use another piece of iron. ..

Sadhana is a battlefield. You have to be vigilant.

FT- p. 33
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2352 on: December 30, 2017, 07:36:27 AM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2353 on: January 02, 2018, 09:56:28 AM »
ANNAMALAI SWAMI ? FINAL TALKS

Annamalai Swami: Constant meditation is the only way. If you bring the light into your room, the darkness immediately goes away. You have to see that the light is not put out. It has to be continuously burning so that there is no darkness. Until you get firmly established in the Self, you have to continue with your meditation. Doubts take possession of you only if you forget yourself.

Question: Sometimes I am overpowered by self-doubt.

Annamalai Swami: If the meditation is not continuous enough, the other part of the mind becomes predominant. You have to overpower this mind that is taking you away from yourself by repeatedly doing this self-inquiry.

When you churn curd and separate butter and buttermilk, they will not become one again after they have been separated. If you take milk from the cow's udder, it will never go back into the cow again.

In the same way, if you become established in the Self, you will never go back into ignorance again.

LWB, p. 50
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2354 on: January 03, 2018, 08:06:46 AM »
FREE WILL

Question: Has man any free will or is everything in his life pre-destined and pre-ordained?

Sri Ramana: Free will holds the field in association with individuality. As long as individuality lasts, there is free-will. All the sastras (scriptures) are based on this fact, and they advise directing the free will in the right channel.

Find out to whom free will or destiny matters. Abide in it. Then these two are transcended. That is the only purpose of discussing these questions. To whom do these questions arise? Find out and be at peace.

- Talks No 426

77. Shine Thou selfless, sapping the pride of those who boast of their free will, Oh Arunachala!

- Akasharamanamalai
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha