Rough Notebook-Open Forum

[Balaji]

Dear Atmavichar sir

Very nice your posting regarding Sri Annamalai swami, LBWB.

[Subramanian.R]

Today is Dhandi Adigal Nayanar guru puja, (liberation day):

Today is the Nayanar's liberation day.   

Panguni Sadhayam star day.

I have given the detailed life story of Dhandi Adigal Nayanar in my serial post
on 63 Saiva Saints.  Please look into them to know the life story of the Nayanar.

Arunachala Siva.   

[Subramanian.R]

Today is Nesa Nayanar's Liberation Day.  He attained Siva's Feet this day.


Panguni month, Rohini star day.

 
I have already given the life history of Nesa Nayanar in my serial posts on 63 Saiva
Saints.  Please go through the same.   

Arunachala Siva.

[Subramanian.R]

Today is Gananatha Nayanar Liberation Day.  He attained the Lotus Feet of Siva,
on this day, Panguni month, Tiru Adirai star day.

I have given the full details of life story of Gananatha Nayanar my serial posts on
63 Saiva Saints.  Members are requested to go through the same to know the full story\
of Gananatha Nayanar.

Arunachala Siva.

[Subramanian.R]

Today is Munai Aduvar Nayanar's Liberation Day.  He attained Siva's Feet on this
Panguni, Pushya star day.

The life story of Munai Aduvar has been given by me in the serial posts on 63
Saiva Saints, see my serial post.

Arunachala Siva.
   

[atmavichar100]

பகவானிடம், பிராரப்த கர்மாவைப் பற்றி நான் (தேவராஜ முதலியார்) இவ்வாறு கேட்டேன்: ஒரு மனிதனுடைய வாழ்க்கையில் முக்கியமான நிகழ்ச்சிகள் அதாவது, அவனுடைய வேலை போன்றவைகள்தான் முன்கூட்டியே நிர்ணயிக்கப்பட்டதா அல்லது சின்னச் சின்ன நிகழ்ச்சிகள்கூட ? அதாவது தண்ணீர் குடிப்பது, அறையில் ஓரிடத்தில் இருந்து இன்னொரு இடத்திற்கு போவது இவைகளெல்லாம்கூட ? ஏற்கனவே தீர்மானிக்கப்பட்டு விடுகிறதா?
பகவான்: ஆமாம். அனைத்துமே முன்பே தீர்மானிக்கப்படுகின்றது.
நான்: அப்படியெனில் மனிதனுக்கு என்ன சுதந்திரம் இருக்கிறது?
பகவான்: அப்படியில்லை என்றால் ஏன் இந்த உடல் பிறக்கிறது? இந்த உடல் அதற்கென்று இந்த வாழ்க்கையில் பல காரியங்கள் செய்யக் காத்திருக்கிறது. எல்லாவிதமான நிகழ்ச்சிகளும் ஏற்கனவே முடிவு செய்யப்பட்டு விட்டன.
இந்த உண்மையைத்தான் அவனன்றி ஓரணுவும் அசையாது என்ற பழமொழி கூறுகின்றது. அவனன்றி அசையாது என்று கூறினாலும் கர்மமின்றி அசையாது என்று கூறினாலும் ஒன்றுதான். மனிதனுக்குள்ள சுதந்திரம் எல்லாம் உடலுடன் பந்தப்படுத்திக் கொள்ளாமல் உடல் செய்யும் கர்மத்தினால் வரும் சுகதுக்கங்களினால் பாதிக்கப்படாமல் இருப்பதுதான்.
- தேவராஜ முதலியாரின் ?அனுதினமும் ஸ்ரீபகவானுடன்? நூலிலிருந்து

[atmavichar100]

Stand up, be bold, and take the blame on your own shoulders. Do not go about throwing mud at others; for all the faults you suffer from, you are the sole and only cause.

~ Swami Vivekananda

[atmavichar100]

Atmavichar/Friends,

BTW we tend to take consolation from the fact that not many people are following these things .It depends upon what sort of people whom you keep meeting in day to day life

Well said.

I can consider myself only as a student still studying the same and trying to imbibe as much as possible in my own day to day life and for this I take guidance from the teachings of Kanchi Mahaswamigaland Sringer Acharyas

Wonderful.

For the rest I feel instead of giving it up as too late I say "Better late than Never "

This is what Sage TiruvaLLuvar says:

மறப்பினும் ஓத்துக் கொளலாகும் பார்ப்பான்
பிறப்பொழுக்கங் குன்றக் கெடும்

Even if the Brahmin(பார்ப்பான்)forgets the chant(ஓத்து)he may learn it again
If his AchAram(பிறப்பொழுக்கம்-AchAram)) dwindles it will be disaster.

kAnchi mahAswAmy points to this important verse in the TirukkuRaL and interprets it in this straight forward fashion.As long as the Brahmin adheres to his AchAram,he can redeem everything.If he neglects it and let it dwindle,it will lead to ruin.

Many others interpret it differently:They split the word as பிறப்பு + ஒழுக்கம்.They then interpret this to say that if the Brahmin falls from Right conduct ஒழுக்கம்,It will be ruin.The Fallacy is that this is not applicable to the Brahmin only but to anyone else as well.

mahAswAmy brilliantly points out that vEdAs are the Treasure for all and it is the brAhmin who is supposed to uphold it by chanting and adhering to vedic Dharma and achAra and anushtAna.It is thus very important that the BrAhmin adheres to even the outer observances.

We may now brand that 'TiruKKuRaL' is also 'Old Tale' and its teachings are also not practical!What is practical is what we do!I am the Follower of Sage X or Y and that is good enough for me.

The real question is whether we truly follow Sage X or Sage Y.If we examine this ,we will find that we are simply caught in our pet ideas.

Atleast the orthodox ones are following not their ways but what is recommended by the sages.They are a notch better.

Namaskar

Dear Sri Ravi

Came across this old post of yours today . The question is regarding the Thirukural mentioned and Kanchi Mahswamy gives his unqiue meaning  but many others give the other meaning i.e  one who goes away with right conducts falls in life . Some of Rationalists and Atheists  say Kanchi Mahaswamigal is giving a Brahmanical interpretation to Thirukural and Thiruvalluvar is anti brahmin  .  Has Sage TGN given his inisght on this Thirukural .

[atmavichar100]

Power of Chanting RAMA NAMA from an incident in Bhagava Ramana Maharshi's life .Though Bhagwan has not recommended any Mantra Japa and prefers to advise people to do self - enquiry yet when some one says they do "Rama Nama" Japa , he encourages them to continue and ask them not to change the mantra to Shiva , Arunachala Shiva etc .
This is the conversation between Bhagwan Ramana and Prof.N.R.Krishnamurti Aiyer
Pg.143 Power of Presence Part-1 by David Godman
"I prostrated before him and said ,"Bhagavan ,I am doing Rama Mantra Japa .Is not Arunachala Mantra Japa superior to this ?
"No!No!: said Bhagavan vehemently ."Both are identical . "Ra" means "that is" and "ma" means "thou" . "A" in Arunachala means "that" ,"ru" means "thou", and "na" means "art" .
Then he added ,"Using your mind as your mouth , let the name Rama revolve continuously like Vishnu's Chakra [ discus-like weapon] within your mind .No others need know that you are doing Japa" .
I interjected ,"If I spend all my time like that , what will happen to my teaching work? Will not my bread winning be in jeopardy ?"
Sri Bhagavan replied ,"The one whose name you repeat will take full charge of all that . Don't be concerned about it ".

[Ravi.N]

atmavichar,

Came across this old post of yours today . The question is regarding the Thirukural mentioned and Kanchi Mahswamy gives his unqiue meaning  but many others give the other meaning i.e  one who goes away with right conducts falls in life . Some of Rationalists and Atheists  say Kanchi Mahaswamigal is giving a Brahmanical interpretation to Thirukural and Thiruvalluvar is anti brahmin  .  Has Sage TGN given his inisght on this Thirukural

TGN pointed out the way to study tirukkural and intuit the teaching therein....One sure way he pointed out is to study other couplets related to the subject matter to arrive at a definitive view(cross reference)...we may intuit the essence of the couplet மறப்பினும் ஓத்துக் கொளலாகும் பார்ப்பான்பிறப்பொழுக்கங் குன்றக் கெடும் using this sort of a cross reference.

Here are the related verses:
அந்தணர் என்போர் அறவோர்மற் றெவ்வுயிர்க்கும்
செந்தண்மை பூண்டொழுக லான்.(verse thirty )

and

அறவாழி அந்தணன் தாள்சேர்ந்தார்க் கல்லால்
பிறவாழி நீந்தல் அரிது.(verse 08)

Each of the above two couplets again may be intuited similiarly but for our purpose,the key thing is to understand that valluvar is differentiating two words that he employs with specific connotation....அறம்  and ஒழுக்கம் ....they may be translated as Dharma and disciplined conduct.

Dharma refers to the inner nature and attitude and disposition....whereas  ஒழுக்கம் refers to its manifestation in outer action....so what does valluvar say in verse 30?....he says that அந்தணர் என்போர் அறவோர்....and not just this...he sets the benchmark for all others....மற்  றெவ்வுயிர் க்கும்செ ந்தண்மை பூண்டொழுக லான்....'பூண்டொழுக லான்' means that he has to demonstrably practice செந்தண்மை (செம்மை + தண்மை  )....(compassion)....and this is acharam....and to emphasize that this 'acharam' is not just 'behaviour' deep he also emphasizes that  'அந்தணர் என்போர் அறவோர்'.....They go hand in hand....and the very job of the Brahmin is to live for the welfare of others...and since the welfare of the world is inextricably linked with the preservation of the vedas,the Brahmin is the custodian of the vedas and all that it stands for...He should be the repository of the vedas and also its paragon in exemplifying it.

More later....paucity of time!

[atmavichar100]

"When the man is ripe for receiving the instruction and his mind is about to sink into the Heart, the instruction imparted works in a flash and he realises the Self all right. Otherwise, there is always the struggle."
(Bhagavan in 'Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi', Talk 275)

[atmavichar100]

[Ravi.N]

continuing the post on Tirukkural...

In verse 32 valluvar uses the same two words மறத்தல்(forget) and கேடு(evil or loss):

அறத்தினூஉங்கு ஆக்கமும் இல்லை அதனை
மறத்தலின் ஊங்கில்லை கேடு.

There can be no greater source of good than (the practice of) virtue; there can be no greater source of evil than the forgetfulness of it.

With all these couplets as a backdrop we may again review the couplet :
 
மறப்பினும் ஓத்துக் கொளலாகும் பார்ப்பான்
பிறப்பொழுக்கங் குன்றக் கெடும்
ஓத்து-means chanting of the vedas ....those who chant the tamizh tirumarais are called Odhuvaars ....but then the Kural was composed earlier to that period...so the word ஓத்து refers to the chanting of Vedas only....and the ones who were entrusted with that job were the Brahmins only...and Valluvar calls them as  பார்ப்பான்....and this word is still in vogue as a slang to refer to a brahmin.

So,the couplet quite definitely refers to the brahmin and his chanting of the vedas.(whatever the so called 'rationalists' may try to believe it means!).

What Tiruvalluvar says here?The Brahmin is not expected to forget the vedas....he is supposed to be doing it all the time!...there is simply no question of his forgetting it.

Now even supposing he forgets it,valluvar says that it can be re learnt by chanting it again....but if he lets  his பிறப்பு ஒழுக்கம் dwindle (பிறப்பொழுக்கங் குன்றக்), he will be ruined.

The veracity of this verse is there for all to see...it does not need the nod of the so called 'rationalists'(actually they are sensualists!).

Now the question arises as to why valluvar is singling out the பார்ப்பான் or the Brahmin....this is so because it is the Brahmin who is supposed to set the high standards in terms of adherence to Dharmic ways and upholding the vedas and preserving it for the welfare of one and all...and even the least slip on his part is a major deviation that is going to irreparably damage the whole of society.

Valluvar always says the Truth...and he is called poiyaa mozhi pulavar(whose words cannot be falsified) for this reason...and to term him as 'for' or 'against' someone or something is just an immature assessment....so,to call him 'antibrahmin' is absolutely an ignorant view.

The Kanchi Mahaswamy exemplified each and every verse that we have referred to in this discussion....and even the so called 'rationalists' would be forced to admit it even if they do not like it.

namaskar

[atmavichar100]

Thanks Ravi for your detailed replies .

[Subramanian.R]

Today is the Liberation Day of Saint Tiru Navukkarasar.

Chitra month, Sadhaya star day.

I have given the detailed life story of the saint in the serial post on Saiva Saints.
Please go through the same.

Arunachala Siva.