Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 343219 times)

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #945 on: June 24, 2014, 10:22:11 PM »
பட்டினத்தார் பாடல்!
The following is a song by Pattinathar , a great Tamil Saint /Siddha .The following song gives the journey of a person's life from Birth to death . I have included the youtube version of the song sung as it came in a Tamil Movie Pattinathar .Wonderful song and people who understand Tamil will really like this philosophical song .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrL1mocPquQ


ஒரு மட மாதும் ஒருவனும் ஆகி
இன்ப சுகம் தரும் அன்பு பொருந்தி
உணர்வு கலங்கி ஒழுகிய விந்து
ஊறு சுரோணித மீது கலந்து

பனியில் ஓர் பாதி சிறு துளி மாது
பண்டியில் வந்து புகுந்து திரண்டு
பதுமம் அரும்பு கமடம் இதென்று
பார்வை மெய் வாய் செவி கால் கைகள் என்ற

உருவமும் ஆகி உயிர் வளர் மாதம்
ஒன்பதும் ஒன்றும் நிறைந்து மடந்தை
உதரம் அகன்று புவியில் விழுந்து
யோகமும் வாரமும் நாளும் அறிந்து

ஒளிந்கை ஊறல் இதழ் மடவாரும்
உவந்து முகந்திட வந்து தவழ்ந்து
மடியில் இருந்து மழலை மொழிந்து
வா இரு போ என நாமம் விளம்ப

உடைமணி ஆடை அரைவடம் ஆட
உண்பவர் தின்பவர் தங்களொடு உண்டு
தெருவில் இருந்து புழுதி அளைந்து
தேடிய பாலரொடு ஓடி நடந்து
அஞ்சு வயதாகி விளையாடியே

உயர் தரு ஞான குரு உபதேச
முந்தமிழின் கலையும் கரை கண்டு
வளர்பிறை என்று பலரும் விளம்ப
வாழ் பதினாறு பிராயமும் வந்து

மதனசொரூபன் இவன் என மோக
மங்கையர் கண்டு மருண்டு திரண்டு
வரிவிழி கொண்டு சுழிய எறிந்து
மாமயில் போல் அவர் போவது கண்டு

மனது பொறாமல் அவர் பிறகு ஓடி
தேடிய மாமுதல் சேர வழங்கி
வளமையும் மாறி இளமையும் மாறி
வன்பல் விழுந்து இருகண்கள் இருண்டு

வயது முதிர்ந்து நரைதிரை வந்து
வாதவிரோத குரோதம் அடைந்து
செங்கையினில் ஓர் தடியுமாகியே
வருவது போவது ஒருமுதுகூனு

மந்தி எனும்படி குந்தி நடந்து
மதியும் அழிந்து செவிதிமிர் வந்து
வாய் அறியாமல் விடாமல் மொழிந்து
கலகல என்று மலசலம் வந்து

கால்வழி மேல்வழி சாரநடந்து
கடன்முறை பேசும் என உரைநாவு
தங்கிவிழுந்து கைகொண்டு மொழிந்து
கடைவழி கஞ்சி ஒழுகிடவந்து

பூதமுநாலு சுவாசமும் நின்று
நெஞ்சு தடுமாறி வரும் நேரமே
வளர்பிறை போல எயிரும் உரோமம்
உச்சடையும் சிறுகுஞ்சியும் விஞ்சு

மனதும் இருண்ட வடிவும் இலங்க
மாமலை போல் யமதூதர்கள் வந்து
வலைகொடு வீசி உயிர்கொடு போக
மைந்தரும் வந்து குனிந்தழ நொந்து

மடியில் விழுந்து மனைவி புலம்ப
மாழ்கினரே இவர் காலம் அறிந்து
வரிசை கெடாமல் எடும் எனஓடி
வந்து இள மைந்தர் குனிந்து சுமந்து

கடுகி நடந்து சுடலை அடைந்து
மானிட வாழ்வென வாழ்வென நொந்து
விறகுஇடை மூடி அழள் கொடுபோட
வெந்து விழுந்து முறிந்து நிணங்கள்

உருகி எலும்பு கருகி அடங்கி
ஓர்பிடி நீறும் இலாத உடம்பை
நம்பும் அடியேனை இனி ஆளுமே.....
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #946 on: June 25, 2014, 07:05:34 AM »
Dear atmavichar,

Nice poem of Pattinathar.  The poem sums up the entire human life, right from father-mother union to birth to death!
Thank you.

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #947 on: June 30, 2014, 04:41:13 PM »
TWENTY IMPORTANT SPIRITUAL INSTRUCTIONS

1. Get up at 4. a.m. daily. This is Brahmamuhurta which is extremely favourable for meditation on God.

2. Asana: Sit on Padma, Siddha or Sukha Asana for Japa and meditation for half an hour, facing the east or the north. Increase the period gradually to three hours. Do Sirshasana and Sarvangasana for keeping up Brahmacharya and health. Take light physical exercises as walking, etc., regularly. Do twenty Pranayamas.

3. Japa: Repeat any Mantra as pure Om or Om Name Narayanaya, Om Namah Sivaya, Om Name Bhagavate Vasudevaya, Om Saravanabhavaya Namah, Sita Ram, Sri Ram, Hari Om, or Gayatri, according to your taste or inclination, from 108 to 21,600 times daily.

4. Dietetic Discipline: Take Sattvic food, Suddha Ahara. Give up chillies, tamarind, garlic, onion, sour articles, oil, mustard, asafoetida. Observe moderation in diet (Mitahara). Do not overload the stomach. Give up those things which the mind likes best for a fortnight in a year. Eat simple food. Milk and fruits help concentration. Take food as medicine to keep the life going. Eating for enjoyment is sin. Give up salt and sugar for a month. You must be able to live on rice, Dhal and bread without any chutni. Do not ask for extra salt for Dhal and sugar for tea, coffee or milk.

5. Have a separate meditation room under lock and key.

6. Charity: Do charity regularly, every month, or even daily according to your means, say six paisa per rupee.

7. Svadhyaya: Study systematically the Gita, the Ramayana, the Bhagavata, Vishnu-Sahasranama, Lalita-Sahasranama, Aditya Hridaya, Upanishads or Yoga Vasishtha, the Bible, Zend Avesta, the Koran, the Tripitakas, the Granth Sahib, etc., from half an hour to one hour daily and have Suddha Vichara.

8. Brahmacharya: Preserve the vital force (Veerya) very, very carefully. Veerya is God in motion or manifestation?Vibhuti. Veerya is all power. Veerya is all money. Veerya is the essence of life, thought and intelligence.

9. Prayer Slokas: Get by heart some prayer-Slokas, Stotras and repeat them as soon as you sit in the Asana before starting Japa or meditation. This will elevate the mind quickly.

10. Satsanga: Have Satsanga. Give up bad company, smoking, meat and alcoholic liquors entirely. Do not develop any evil habits.

11. Fast on Ekadasi: Fast on Ekadasi or live on milk and fruits only.

12. Japa Mala: Have Japa Mala (rosary) round your neck or in your pocket or underneath your pillow at night.

13. Mouna: Observe Mouna (vow of silence) for a couple of hours daily.

14. Speak the Truth: Speak the truth at all cost. Speak a little. Speak sweetly.

15. Reduce your wants. If you have four shirts, reduce the number to three or two. Lead a happy, contented life. Avoid unnecessary worry. Have plain living and high thinking.

16. Never hurt anybody: Never hurt anybody (Ahimsa Paramo Dharmah). Control anger by love, Kshama (forgiveness) and Daya (compassion).

17. Do not depend upon servants: Do not depend upon servants. Self-reliance is the highest of all virtues.

18. Self-analysis: Think of the mistakes you have committed during the course of the day, just before retiring to bed (self-analysis). Keep daily diary and self-correction register. Do not brood over past mistakes.

19. Fulfil duties: Remember that death is awaiting you at every moment. Never fail to fulfil your duties. Have pure conduct (Sadachara).

20. Surrender to God: Think of God as soon as you wake up and just before you go to sleep. Surrender yourself completely to God (Saranagati).

~ Swami Sivananda
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #948 on: June 30, 2014, 07:57:47 PM »
Quote
TWENTY IMPORTANT SPIRITUAL INSTRUCTIONS

1. Get up at 4. a.m. daily. This is Brahmamuhurta which is extremely favourable for meditation on God.

If one is able to implement the first instruction successfully then all other remaining 19 instructions will be able to implement fairly easy .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #949 on: July 01, 2014, 01:56:38 PM »
Self-surrender does not mean retirement into the forests. It does not mean giving up of all activities. Tamas or inertia is mistaken for self-surrender. This is a sad mistake. What is wanted is internal surrender. The ego and desire must be annihilated. This will constitute real surrender~Swami Sivananda
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Criticism of Nochur Sri Venkatraman's talk on Srimad Bhagavatham!
« Reply #950 on: July 06, 2014, 11:00:10 PM »
Friends,
I enjoy Nochur Sri Venkatraman's talks in general and particularly his Bhagavatham.They are imbued with deep devotion and jnanam.This being so,how dare I then venture to offer a bit of criticism as I do here!If it is only a matter of taste and personal opinion,I will not be posting it here,but I deem that what is amiss is something that is the essence of how srimad Bhagavatham came to be composed and any exposition of Bhagavatham has to take this spirit into account and not transgress it.
Let me explain.On 5th Evening Sri Venkatraman continued from where he left off -he had come to the end of the 8th canto ,the episode of how the Lord as the matsya(the Big Fish) expounded knowledge to Sathyavrata.
"How can the Fish speak to Sathyavrata"-asked the speaker.Then by way of explaining,he referred to how Sri Ramakrishna went to the Kali temple and asked 'kAli' for anything he had to do,how 'KaLi' spoke to him-How Swami Vivekananda as Narendra used to make fun of this.He then went on to explain that it is only God from within Ramakrishna who spoke to him.
"we also see the kali image.Does Kali speak to us?" He added as if to validate his previous statement.
Likewise it is only God from within sathyavrata that spoke and it is said that the Matsya spoke!

I do not have issue with this sort of rationalization.Yet,is this a sufficient way of explaining it to others?Is there not a better way of explaining it?I differ here.

My counter to this rationalization is-"What is within and what is without?"
"What is inner and what is outer?"
What we mean by 'inner' is the essence and has nothing to do with space.If this essence is grasped we find the same essence within and without.It should then be possible to see that that what is within as essence or God is also in the 'outer image of Kali' .One then only sees God and not 'image of clay'.
If Sri Ramakrishna had realized that God is only 'within' ,was he a fool to go to Kali temple?Why did he send Narendra to the Kali temple when the same Narendra who had criticized him earlier now wanted the Grace of God to free him from the troubles that beset him?It is a fact that Narendra saw the Living Godess and not the 'clay image' and in as much as we have the same Faith and Devotion,we may also see the Living Presence and not just 'Idol of Clay' and it will speak to us also.
The Rationale to this is that God is everywhere and cannot be confined to 'within',although in a manner of speaking that is also valid.If the 'within' is full of Light ,the 'out' will also be full of Light.If the 'Within' is empty,the 'out' will be equally empty.


continued....
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 11:46:27 PM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Criticism of Nochur Sri Venkataraman's Talk on Srimad Bhagavatham,Matsyavataram on July 5,2014 continued...

Why do I say that this sort of treatment is not in the spirit of how Bhagavatham came to be composed?Here is the story of How Bhagavatham came to be composed:

Towards the end of Dwapara Yuga which is third among the four Yugas (Krita, Treta, Dwavapara and Kali) was born Sage Veda Vyasa as the son of Parashara by Satyavathi the daughter of a fisherman Vasu.

Vyasa sitting on the banks of River Saraswati had a deep insight into the past present and future perceived great transformation being brought about by imperceptible flight Time in the value systems of human beings. Seeing the fast declining of capabilities of men in terms of their health and strength as also his loss of faith, resolution, intelligence and longevity the Sage thought of securing the future good of men of all classes and orders.

Perceiving the impossibility of Veda being transmitted in its present form without loss of its content , Veda Vyasa reorganized the single undivided Veda of those times to four Vedas namely Rig-Veda, Yajur-veda, Sama Veda and Adharvan Veda. He passed on the four Vedas to Rishis Paila, Vaisampayana, Jamini, and Sumanthu respectively. Romaharshana was entrusted the study of Puranas and Itihasas. For the benefit of those who are debarred from Vedic rites Vyasa also composed Mahabharata. It is said Mahabharata contained everything that is needed to be known.

However though he has dedicated himself for the welfare of all classes and order of people by completing Mahabharata sage Vyasa experienced a great deal of dissatisfaction. So while he was contemplating in this mood Sage Narada appeared.

Then sage Vyasa asked Narada -"I have devoted myself to all vows and in absolute sincerity I have devoted myself to Vedic study, service of teachers, and adoration of Vedic Fires. In the guise of Mahabharata I have made available to people debarred from Vedic rites the knowledge of the four fold meaning of life namely Dharma Artha, Kama and Moksha . Still I do not feel the enrichment and joy of spirit. Is it that I have not given adequate exposition to the laws of divine life?"

He further asks Narada " Oh Narada you travel all over the world like sun and you can get into the hearts of every body and be witness to all their thoughts. So deign to look into to the state of my mind find out what my sin of omission is !"

Thus implored Narada told him that " Oh Son of Parashara ! you have not adequately described the unsullied glory of the Supreme Lord. I consider as in adequate all those philosophies which fail to please the Lord because of lack of devotional exuberance .You have not described the greatness of Vasudeva with the exhaustiveness with which you have treated the Vedic rites and four fold end of human life namely Dharma Artha Kama Moksha !"

Narada then elaborated the supremacy of Bhakti.

After the departure of Narada Sage Vyasa chose a sacred spot on the western Banks of the river Saraswati called Samyaprasa most suited for Spiritual retreats. Sitting in his Ashram at that spot the Sage Vyasa entered into a Samadhi after observing all the rites. He realized that panacea for all the sufferings cause by Avidya (ignorance) is devotion to Lord. That illumined sage therefore composed the Bhagavata Purana for the benefit of the man to teach him that Bhakti is the one means by which the spiritual glory of Jiva can be restored. It is said that even the commencement of the study of Bhagavatam results in Bhakti permeating the mind of man.

The epic by name Bhagavatam is the narration of the stories of God . It is compiled by Vyasa Deva . It is meant for the ultimate good of all people for their success , bliss and perfection.

As Narada explicitly suggested it is essentially about the glory of Vasudeva. That enchanting story of story Vasudeva or Lord Krishna is told in Dasama Skandha .Hence the importance of Dasama Skandha , the essence of which is captured in a beautiful sloka ( X31 sloka 9 )

"Your story which is like Amritam revives the scorched spirit of a man ; purifies a sinner , the holy men thrive on it . To hear it is auspicious and peace generating. Those who chant your name are the real benefactors."


He who is not comfortable with the 'stories' and has to resort to rationalization may well steer clear of Bhagavatham.He may find the upanishads a perfect subject to talk about.If vyasa had found the need to talk about the 'stories' of the Lord,there must be a purpose they serve and that cannot be wished away.The devotee will find that yielding in simple faith to it is not at all incompatible with the nuggets of Jnanam that they contain.This is the spirit of Reading the Bhagavatham and listening to it.
The narrator of the Bhagavatham must keep up this spirit and serve the same to the listeners.Not create confusion in the minds of listeners through 'rationalizations'.
He will simply accept that God in the form of 'Fish' did speak to satyavrata and there is nothing incongruent about it.After all the ignorance is to consider 'Fish' as 'Fish' and Enlightenment is to realize that nothing but God exists and that God is in the Fish as much as he is one's heart and to the devout and faithful,He may reveal himself in a mosquito or amoeba also.
To be fair to Nochur Sri Venkatraman ,he has also said all that I have said as well but then to say something like what he did on 5th evening-out of form,eh?Too much of talk is also not good.The Talk should come from the Heart(sarvabhoota hridayam) and if the mind intervenes,well there is the mixture.
Namaskar.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 12:02:10 AM by Ravi.N »

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #952 on: July 07, 2014, 09:41:14 PM »
Muruganar and Aksharamanamalai.

Ramana Maharshi composed Aksharamanamalai in 1914. Muruganar came to Bhagavan many years later. He came to know about Aksharamanamalai by reading a book presented to him by his father-in-law. Being a scholar-poet Muruganar he was deeply impressed by the high quality of thought and the divine fervor of the poems. Intuitively he felt the greatness of the author of these poems but the pressures of work made it impossible for him to go at once.

On June 4th 1944 Muruganar reverentially offered the hand-written manuscript of the commentary on Aksharamanamalai at the feet of Lord on the day of Maha Kumbhabhisekham of Arunachala temple. The commentary was later published in 1952 that is after Bhagavan?s Maha Samadhi.

We reproduce a passage from an article written by Sadhu Om in the March 1983 issue of ?Arunachala Ramana? to illustrate how closely Muruganar interacted with Bhagavan before writing the commentary on Aksharamanamalai.
?The poetic genius of Sri Ramana Maharshi was not due to His education or learning. It came only through the inspiration of Grace. But in Sri Muruganar, divine inspiration was combined with great learning. That is why Sri Bhagavan used to consult Sri Muruganar whenever He had to decide about some very subtle points in Tamil literary grammar.
Sri Arunachala Aksharamanamalai, the earliest of Sri Bhagavan's major poetic works, was composed when He was quite young. In those days there was no chance for Him to check His verses with grammatical knowledge learnt from outside. But when Sri Murugannar went through his work in 1923 he was taken aback with awe and wonder, so great was the richness of its meaning and the grandeur of its Tamil style. Such verses could never be written by an ordinary poet, no matter how learned he might be.
?When Sri Muruganar was requested by some devotees to write a commentary on Sri Arunachala Aksharamanamalai, he began to ask Sri Bhagavan about the precise meaning of some stanzas, which he found to be ambiguous."Someone has sung it. Who knows who he was and where he has gone? Ask him. If you ask me, what can I do? Even I will have to break my head to give a meaning. You may bear the burden and give the meaning just as well as I", answered Sri Bhagavan, thus lovingly giving his blessings to Sri Muruganar and allowing him full rights to give the meaning.

When Sri Muruganar came to verse 46, "Tupparivilla Vippirap penpayan, Oppida vayen Arunchala", he wished to know from Sri Bhagavan the exact idea He had meant by the word 'vayen'. Sri Bhagavan said, "It is a simple imperative, as we colloquially use the verbs va, po and sey, saying vayen, poyen, and seyyen. So vayen is a request, asking Sri Arunachala to come". Sri Muruganar was hesitating, because if the verb 'va' is used as an imperative in the sense 'come', the correct grammatical form should be vaven not vayen. To write vayen is truly a grammatical mistake according to the Tamil rules of conjunction. Pointing this out to Sri Bhagavan, Sri Muruganar stood hesitating, but Sri Bhagavan said "Then correct it accordingly. Since the word I used colloquially is not grammatically correct, it is to be changed." Sri Muruganar was stunned with fear. "O Bhagavan", he said with respect and humility, "it is a great offence to find mistakes in the divinely inspired works of Sages. Truly, no mistakes will creep into their words. When it is so, who am I to find a petty grammatical mistake and to correct Your divine words of Grace?". But Sri Bhagavan kindly said, "It is not a wrong to correct a word if it is grammatically at fault". Even though Sri Bhagavan consented thus, Sri Muruganar's heart was unwilling to correct it. Although the word was indeed fit to be corrected and although Sri Bhagavan Himself gave his consent for him to correct it, the completely surrendered and egoless mind of Muruganar did not at all agree to do so. He prayerfully said, "O Bhagavan, I cannot find room in my heart to correct Your gracious words. Words coming from a divine source can never be wrong. Let the word 'vayen' remain as it is. Be gracious to enable me to find a suitable meaning for it, without changing its form".

Finally while writing the meaning for this verse, Sri Muruganar split the word as vay plus en which means 'Why a mouth ?'. Thus the meaning he gave for the verse was, "O Arunachala, of what use is this birth to me without vichara-jnana - knowledge born of enquiry? Since it is useless, why should
I open my mouth to compare it (this birth of mine) with anything - with even the birth of the lowest creatures such as dogs?"
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #953 on: July 08, 2014, 02:44:26 AM »
Dear atmavichar,

Nice.  Muruganar was a scholar extraordinary in Tamizh.  Verses flew from his mouth and he was a gifted poet.  'Arunachala
Aksharamanamaalai Viruthi Urai" is the name of that book.  I have read it more than a couple of times, for his sheer
interpretation of Sri Bhagavan's work.  His Guru Vachaka Kovai is a treasure.  After reading David Godman's work,  no
one has cared to read the original Tamizh verses there.  The book is a magnum opus of Sri Bhagavan's teachings.  So
also his other works Sri Ramananubhuti, Sri Guru Ramana Prasadam and Sri Ramana Venba.

It is Prof. K. Swaminathan who was responsible to bring all of Muruganar's work in 9 volume Sri Ramana Jnana Bodham,
which was published (only one edition has come) through Sri Ramana Kendra of Delhi, when he was its Secretary.
Muruganar's greatness and his love and respect for Sri Bhagavan is beyond words.


Arunachala Siva.     

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #954 on: July 08, 2014, 07:34:28 AM »
Atmavichar(Krishna),
Wonderful story of Sri Muruganar -trying to do justice to both- the spontaneity of divine inspiration as well as the unbending rules of Tamizh grammar.Notwithstanding his balancing act,I prefer Sri Bhagavan's straightforward colloquial வாயேன்(vAyEn) in that verse.
With all due respect to Muruganar,I have always wondered what it would have been if someone like kannadasan had an opportunity to render a work like Guru vachaka Kovai.Muruganar's Tamizh is too sophisticated and archaic and simply not suitable for any layman to follow.No wonder ,most devotees have to resort to translation of this work.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #955 on: July 08, 2014, 09:11:54 PM »
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

There are two schools of thought: the Vedanta and the Purana. According to the Vedanta this world is a 'framework of illusion', that is to say, it is all illusory, like a dream. But according to the Purana, the books of devotion, God Himself has become the twenty-four cosmic principles. Worship God both within and without.

The Master points to the difference in  approach here,although fundamentally there is no difference in essence.He says:

"God is not only inside us; He is both inside and outside. The Divine Mother showed me in the Kali temple that everything is Chinmaya, the Embodiment of Spirit; that it is She who has become all this―the image, myself, the utensils of worship, the door-sill, the marble floor. Everything is indeed Chinmaya".

Namaskar.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 09:17:46 PM by Ravi.N »

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #956 on: July 08, 2014, 10:02:22 PM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #957 on: July 08, 2014, 10:27:00 PM »
CONVERSATIONS WITH ANNAMALAI SWAMI

Q: So we only think that we have choices. The sense of choice is not real?

Annamalai Swami: Correct! All the difficulties that we experience in life have been given to us by Bhagavan in order to turn our minds towards the Self.

A man once asked Bhagavan, 'Why did God choose this way of giving grace only through misery? Why did He not choose some other way?'
Bhagavan replied, 'It is His way. Who are you to question
Him?'

On another occasion a devotee asked, 'Why does God not appear before me?'
Bhagavan answered, 'If He appears before you in person you will not leave Him in peace. He is not appearing because He is afraid of you. He is afraid of manifesting in a form that you can see because He knows that if He does you will just give Him a long list of things that you want.'

Q: Is it desirable to want to see God?

AS: Manikkavachagar said in one of his songs: 'God is not a
person, nor is He any particular thing. Yet without God there is nothing because He alone is everything.'
To see one's Self and to see this same Self in all that is, that is seeing God.

Q: So it is better to want only the formless Self?

AS: I once heard Bhagavan say to Paul Brunton: lf you do upasana [meditation] on the all-pervading Self, you will get infinite energy.' All beings, all things, all people in the world are your own Self. They are all indivisibly part of you.If you can see all as your Self, how can you do harm to anyone else? When you have that clear vision, whatever you do to others, you know that it is done to your Self only.

Living by the Words of Bhagavan
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #958 on: July 09, 2014, 07:40:56 AM »
Friends,
Here is the link to the video interview of Sri annAmalai Swami by Jim Lemkin:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbd85YItR-E

Towards the end of the interview,swami tells Jim:"Like one knows 'I am a Man',likewise one should know 'I am the Self'"(past 1hr 8 mts in the interview)
He further adds :"All that I have said are only what Bhagavan has said".
Jim thanks him saying :"It is very useful for me and others"
Swami says:'Yes' and adds 'there are no others.All is Self' and smiles.
Wonderful interview.Warmly recommended.

Namaskar.

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #959 on: July 09, 2014, 10:39:42 PM »
Talks 197

Gul and Shirin Byramjee, two Parsi ladies of Ahmedabad, arrived
this day. They spoke at night to Maharshi: ?Bhagavan! We have been
spiritually inclined from our childhood. We have read several books on
philosophy, and are attracted by Vedanta. So we read the Upanishads,
Yoga Vasishtha, Bhagavad Gita, etc. We try to meditate, but there is
no progress in our meditation. We do not understand how to realise.


Can you kindly help us towards realisation??


M.: How do you meditate?

D.: I begin to ask myself ?Who am I??, eliminate body as not ?I?, the
breath as not ?I?, the mind as not ?I? and I am not able to proceed further.

M.: Well, that is so far as the intellect goes. Your process is only intellectual. Indeed, all the scriptures mention the process only to guide the seeker to know the Truth. The Truth cannot be directly pointed out. Hence this intellectual process. You see, the one who eliminates all the not I cannot eliminate the ?I?. To say ?I am not this? or ?I am that? there must be the ?I?. This
?I? is only the ego or the ?I-thought?. After the rising up of this ?I-thought?, all other thoughts arise. The ?I-thought? is therefore the root-thought. If the root is pulled out all others are at the same time uprooted. Therefore seek the root ?I?, question yourself ?Who am I??; find out its source. Then all these will vanish and the pure Self will remain ever.

D.: How to do it?

M.: The ?I? is always there - in deep sleep, in dream and in wakefulness.
The one in sleep is the same as that who now speaks. There is always the feeling of ?I?. Otherwise do you deny your existence? You do not. You say ?I am?. Find out who is.

D.: Even so, I do not understand. ?I?, you say, is the wrong ?I? now.
How to eliminate this wrong ?I??


M.: You need not eliminate the wrong ?I?. How can ?I? eliminate itself?
All that you need do is to find out its origin and abide there. Your
efforts can extend only thus far. Then the Beyond will take care of itself. You are helpless there. No effort can reach it.

D.: If ?I? am always - here and now, why do I not feel so?


M.: That is it. Who says it is not felt? Does the real ?I? say it or the false ?I?? Examine it. You will find it is the wrong ?I?. The wrong ?I? is the obstruction. It has to be removed in order that the true ?I? may not be hidden. The feeling that I have not realised is the obstruction to realisation. In fact it is already realised; there is nothing more to be realised. Otherwise, the realisation will be new; it has not existed so far, it must take place hereafter. What is born will also die. If realisation be not eternal it is not worth having. Therefore what we seek is not that which must happen afresh. It is only that which is eternal but not now known due to obstructions; it is that we seek. All that we need do is to remove the obstruction. That which is eternal is not known to be so because of ignorance. Ignorance is the obstruction. Get over this ignorance and all will be well. The ignorance is identical with the ?I-thought?. Find its source and it will vanish.The ?I-thought? is like a spirit which, although not palpable, rises up simultaneously with the body, flourishes and disappears with it. The body-consciousness is the wrong ?I?. Give up this body consciousness. It is done by seeking the source ?I?. The body does
not say ?I am?. It is you who say, ?I am the body!? Find out who this ?I? is. Seeking its source it will vanish.
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha