Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 343280 times)

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #930 on: June 03, 2014, 09:05:59 AM »
I would like to add one more thing .It is not just the Vedic Dharma to be followed by Indians /Hindus , every Individual in whichever part of the world he /she is must try to understand and practice to the best of his/her ability the native religion , culture and practices .No doubt many of these practices have become outdated and many have also become corrupted by the priestly class but yet there still does exist some good practices that are worthy of being followed and it is better each individual tries to understand them ( Understand the pure form ) and practice in his / her life .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #931 on: June 03, 2014, 10:53:02 AM »
Thayumanavar
(source:MP Jul/AUG 1995)


Although Thayumanavar lived less than 300 years ago and remains the most popular Tamil poet-saint, there is no authentic record of his date of birth or death. What is known to have transpired between these two events can be summed up briefly:

At an early age he began working in the service of a king. When the king died he left this work because of the amorous advances of the king's widow. He then travelled in search of a Guru. At Tiruchilapalli he met Mouna Guru Arulananda Sivachari. He asked to be taken as a disciple, but the saint answered 'chumma iru', meaning 'be still' or 'be quiet' or 'just be' (a phrase which Ramana Maharshi also used on a number of occasions). However, the saint said that when the time was ripe he would initiate him.
Thayumanavar then returned home and married. Soon after his wife delivered their first child, a boy, she died. That again prompted Thayumanavar to leave home in answer to his spiritual calling. He once more approached Arulananda Sivachari and, true to his word, the guru fulfilled his promise and initiated Thayumanavar into sannyas.

Thayumanavar followed the discipline of silence (mouna), which he describes as: "that state which spontaneously manifests after the annihilation of the ego." He says: "It is a state beyond light and darkness, but it is called light, since language is inadequate to express it. The ego disappears and 'I' spontaneously manifests in full glory." The Maharshi particularly singled out this verse of his for admiration.

Thayumanavar was equally great as a saint and a poet. Often he would retire to the forest or public gardens and remained for days absorbed in the bliss of the Self. Legend has it that he was sitting thus, immobile insamadhi in a public garden in Ramnad when the gardeners, not noticing him, piled a heap of dry leaves and twigs about him and set fire to it, and thus his body was consumed and he merged in the Supreme.
His mystical and devotional lyrics continue to inspire devotees and aspirants. The profundity of their meaning is matched by their beauty of form, so that they appeal to simple and learned alike. Although no English translation can do justice to the Tamil original, a careful reading of the following will at least reveal the great depths of Thayumanavar's experience. Ramana Maharshi was often heard quoting from his exquisite verses. The following are ten verses especially selected by the Maharshi:

1 & 2. The individual ego known as "I" having manifested and troubled everyone, the universal Maya, the diversifying agency, spontaneously follows in its wake. Who can possibly describe the vast ocean of misery consequent upon it? It appears as the flesh, the body, the senses, interior and exterior, as the all pervading ether, air, fire, water and earth, as mountain, forest, huge visions like hills physical and subtle, as forgetfulness and memory, and so on, rising up wave after wave and beating against man, bringing pleasure and pain, which are the result of his past actions, and also their remedies known as creeds, religions, God-Seeker, and the testimonies and sanctions found in various sciences, and explained by logic. All these are more numerous than even the fine grains of sand on the seashore.

3. Unaccountable troubles crop up spontaneously, sheaf upon sheaf. How to root them out wholesale, even as burning up a hill of camphor without residue in a vast blaze of fire? In order to achieve this miracle, and to enlighten me, Grace took shape. In every respect, like my self, eating and sleeping, suffering and enjoying, bearing a name and born somewhere, it appeared as the Silent Guru, like a deer used to decoy another of its species.

4. And claimed my body, possessions and life itself and consistently with the process of elimination, signified "you are not the five senses nor the five elements, nor the limbs, nor the mind, nor their attributes, nor all these collectively, nor the body nor knowledge nor ignorance. You are pure consciousness, unassociated like a crystal, but reflecting the background to lookers-on; whereas we (guru) are only the inherent nature revealing the truth on finding you ripe for it."

5. "If eager to reach Consciousness-Bliss-Eternity innermost in all, which is also the inner abode of refreshing Grace, listen to the course I indicate. May you reach the Pure Heart and abide there forever! May dense ignorance vanish for you! May you attain to Bliss-Consciousness! May bondage cease for you!" Communicating thus,

6. "And dispensing the true knowledge of the Natural and Unique Silence which destroys all bondage and where there is no meditation nor the ego, no space, no time, no direction, no association, no elimination, no differentiation, no expression, no phenomena of night and day, no end, no beginning, no middle, no interior or exterior, nor an aggregate of all these."

7. (The Guru indicated further) that, though all these are eliminated, "It" is not void, but is Natural, Eternal Be-ing inexpressible by words, not manifesting as ego, but is the Reality engulfing all, having swallowed all ignorance like day covering night, and absorbing unhindered all knowledge, metamorphosing the person into Itself, It shines in Silence, Self-effulgent;

8. With its emergence, It prevents any other from appearing; and all else is put out suddenly like burning camphor blown away without residual flicker or glow; and in its place It shines beyond the senses, and apart from the knower, known and knowledge; and yet It is there, though who can speak of it and to whom? For if It arises, the individual is metamorphosed; It will assert Itself (Literally: It Speaks Itself),

9. (And further on), if it is said to be "It," the question arises "which," though such doubt about the non-dual One is illogical; so transcending it also, King Janaka or Suka and others remained like the bee intoxicated with honey in that state. (The same Guru's) blessing helped me to reach it. Grace is needed in order to reach theNirvikalpa Samadhi and attain absolute Bliss. I will not rest nor attend to my wants until I attain it.

10. On the "I" idea of the individual ego vanishing, there springs up within me a current of "I-I" endless indeed. This confers bliss engulfing all my knowledge, unique and transcendental, ending in Silence! How then can Silence be expressed?
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #932 on: June 05, 2014, 07:29:54 AM »
Friends,

Nirvana -a poem by Sri Aurobindo.

All is abolished but the mute Alone.
The mind from thought released, the heart from grief,
Grow inexistent now beyond belief;
There is no I, no Nature, known-unknown.
The city, a shadow picture without tone,
Floats, quivers unreal; forms without relief
Flow, a cinema's vacant shapes; like a reef
Foundering in shoreless gulfs the world is done.

Only the illimitable Permanent
Is here. A Peace stupendous, featureless, still.
Replaces all, - what once was I, in It
A silent unnamed emptiness content
Either to fade in the Unknowable
Or thrill with the luminous seas of the Infinite.


« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 07:37:23 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Sastra or Conscience?
« Reply #933 on: June 06, 2014, 07:25:33 AM »
atmavichar/Friends,

Quote
In this context I remember once having an 1-1 discussion with Swami Paramarthananda many years back about following one's heart and following the Vedic Injunctions . Swamiji made it very clear that in certain things it is wiser to follow what the ancients have prescribed and not follow one's heart as one's heart is  highly colored by one's likes and dislikes and we will tend to do what we like and avoid what we dislike . As long as one's likes and dislikes sync with what the Ancients have said there is no problem but it is highly unlikely without a proper training right from Childhood on these matters and that is why he told at a young age boys are initiated with the Upanayana and given a set of instructions that they need to follow ( Taittriya Upanishad has all these instructions )

Here is an excerpt from The Sage of kAnchi that puts things in the perspective - Sastra or Conscience?:

The goal of dharma is universal welfare. The great men who produced the works on Dharmasastra didn't have a trace of self-interest in them and had nothing but the thought of the happiness of all creatures. These treatises are the authority on which dharma is founded. You find the form of things, the image, with your eyes; you perceive sound with your ears; you know dharma with the help of Dharmasastra.

The Vedas (Sruti) are the root of all dharma. After Sruti comes Smrti. The latter consists of the "notes" based on Smrti. It is the same as Dharmasastra. Another guide for the dharma is the example of great men. The Puranas provide an answer to how great men conducted themselves. Then there is sistacara to guide us, the life of virtuous people of noble character. Not everybody's conduct can be a guide to us. The individual whose life is an example for the practice of dharma must have faith in the sastras and must live in accordance with their ordinances. Besides, he must be free from desire and anger. The conduct of such men is sistacara. Another authority or guide is what we know through our conscience in a state of transparency.

In matters of the Self, of dharma and religion, the Vedas are in the forefront as our guide. Next come the dharmasastras. Third is the conduct of the great sages of the past. Fourth is the example of the virtuous people of our own times. Conscience comes last in determining dharma.

Now everything has become topsy-turvy. People give importance first to their conscience and last to the Vedas. We must consult our conscience only as a last resort when we have no other means of knowing what is dharma with reference to our actions. Why is conscience called one's "manahsaksi"? Conscience is fit to be only a witness (saksi), not to be a judge. A witness often gives false evidence. The mind, however, doesn't tell an untruth - indeed it knows the truth of all things. "There is no deceit
that is hidden from the heart (mind)",says Auvvai Grandma. Conscience may be regarded as a witness. But nowadays it is brought in as a judge also in dharmic matters. As a witness it will give us a true report of what it sees or has seen. But on the basis of it we cannot give on what is just with any degree of finality. "What I think is right,? everybody would try to satisfy himself thus about his actions if he were to be guided only by his conscience. How can this be justified as the verdict of dharma?

We often hear people say, "I will act according to what my conscience tells me.? This is not a right attitude. All at once your conscience cannot be given the place of a judge. It is only when there is no other way open to you that you may tell your mind: "You have seen everything as a witness. Now tell me your opinion. ?The mind belongs to each one of us as individuals. So it cannot be detached from our selfish interests. The place it has in one's personal affairs cannot be given to it in matters of religion. On questions of dharma the opinion of sages alone is valid, sages who were concerned with universal welfare and who transcended the state of the individual concerned with his own mind [or with himself].

« Last Edit: June 06, 2014, 07:32:08 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #934 on: June 06, 2014, 07:48:26 AM »
Nagaraj/friends,

Quote
It is the Gayatri which has indeed blessed me with various blessings from spirituality. I believe it is the Gayatri that brought me to Ramana Bhagavan, it is the Gayatri that brought me to Ramakrishnar, it is the Gayatri that gave me the access to various unheard of scriptures. It is the Gayatri that gave me a chance to learn vedas mantras. In a limited life of mine, i have seen the power of Gayatri, as to how powerful it is, If muttered even casually, it protects and brings to the person all wonderful things of life.

The Sandhya and the gAyatri is the essence of the vedAs.This wonderful practice is an amalgamation of all the four yogas and whoever diligently practices needs no other sadhana.

Sri Ramakrishna puts it in aphoristic form:

"When, hearing the name of Hari or Rama once, you shed tears and your hair stands on end, then you may know for certain that you do not have to perform such devotions as the sandhya any more. Then only will you have a right to renounce rituals; or rather, rituals will drop away of themselves. Then it will be enough if you repeat only the name of Rama or Hari, or even simply Om." Continuing, he said, "The sandhya merges in the Gayatri, and the Gayatri merges in Om."

Again he says:
"When a man sheds tears at the name of Hari, Kali, or Rama, then he has no further need of the sandhya and other rites. All actions drop away of themselves. The fruit of action does not touch him."

"He who has realized God no longer performs religious duties such as the sandhya. In his case the sandhya merges in the Gayatri. When that happens, it is enough for a person to repeat just the Gayatri mantra. Then the Gayatri merges in Om. After that one no longer chants even the Gayatri; it is enough then to chant simply Om. How long should a man practise such devotions as the sandhya? As long as he does not feel a thrill in his body and shed tears of joy while repeating the name of Rama or of Hari".

"How long should a devotee perform daily devotions such as the sandhya? As long as his hair does not stand on end and his eyes do not shed tears at the name of God. These things indicate that the devotee has realized God. From these one knows that he has attained pure love of God".

Four stages of life
"There are four stages of life: brahmacharya, garhasthya, Vanaprastha, and sannyas. During the first three stages a man has to perform his worldly duties. The sannyasi carries only his staff, water-pot, and begging-bowl. He too may perform certain nityakarma, but his mind is not attached to it; he is not conscious of doing such work. Some sannyasis perform nityakarma to set an example to the world. If a householder or a man belonging to the other stages of life performs action without attachment, then he is united with God through such action.
"In the case of a paramahamsa, like Sukadeva, all karmas-all puja, japa, tarpan, sandhya, and so forth-drop away. In this state a man communes with God through the mind alone. Sometimes he may be pleased to perform outward activities for the welfare of mankind. But his recollection and contemplation of God remain uninterrupted."

continued....

Ravi.N

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Sri Ramakrishna on The Sandhya,GAyatri
« Reply #935 on: June 06, 2014, 07:56:19 AM »
The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna -on the Sandhya and Gayatri  continued...

Rituals prepare the way for divine love

"Without having realized God one cannot give up rituals altogether. How long should one practise the sandhya and other forms of ritualistic worship? As long as one does not shed tears of joy at the name of God and feel a thrill in one's body. You will know that your ritualistic worship has come to an end when your eyes become filled with tears as you repeat 'Om Rama'. Then you do not have to continue your sandhya or other rituals.

"When the fruit appears the blossom drops off. Love of God is the fruit, and rituals are the blossom. When the daughter-in-law of the house becomes pregnant, she cannot do much work. Her mother-in-law gradually lessens her duties in the house. When her time arrives she does practically nothing. And after the child is born her only work is to play with it. She doesn't do any household duties at all. The sandhya merges in the Gayatri, the Gayatri in Om, and, Om in samadhi. It is like the sound of a bell: t-a-m. The yogi, by following in the trail of the sound Om, gradually merges himself in the Supreme Brahman. His sandhya and other ritualistic duties disappear in samadhi. Thus the duties of the jnani come to an end."

Efficacy of bhakti for modern times

MASTER: "For the Kaliyuga the path of devotion described by Narada is best. Where can people find time now to perform their duties according to the scriptural injunctions?
Nowadays the decoctions of roots and herbs of the orthodox Hindu physicians cannot be given to a fever patient. By the time that kind of medicine begins its slow process of curing, the patient is done for. Therefore only a drastic medicine like the allopathic 'fever mixture' is effective now. You may ask people to practise scriptural rites and rituals; but, when prescribing the rituals, remove the 'head and tail'. I tell people not to bother about the elaborate rituals of the sandhya as enjoined in the scriptures. I say that it will be enough for them to repeat the Gayatri alone. If you must give instruction about scriptural ceremonies, do so only to a very few, like Ishan".

The sandhya merges in the Gayatri, the Gayatri in Om, and, Om in samadhi-This is the sutra of Sri Ramakrishna.
continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #936 on: June 06, 2014, 08:05:54 AM »
Friends,
There is a small book on Sri Ramakrishna called 'VEdamurti Sri Ramakrishna' .During the 175th birth anniversary,Swami OmkArananda spoke on this subject.The Excerpts that I have quoted touch upon the subject of Sandhya and the GAyatri-how sri Ramakrishna is advising that the efficacy of this path.He also emphasizes that it cannot be given up-it will fall off when God is realized.
He also clearly states how even God Realized Sages continue to perform these rituals to set an example to the world.
The Sage of Kanchi is such a God realized great one who taught the Vedic Dharma-He should not be confused with a fundamentalist Religious leader.The Sage is a True advaitin and a Brahma JnAni and we need to understand his words in this sense.
To wrap it up,our friend Nagaraj is truly blessed in realizing the power of the gAyatri mantra(The essence of the vEdAs)first-hand.
Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #937 on: June 06, 2014, 07:32:40 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Quote
     The Sage of Kanchi is such a God realized great one who taught the Vedic Dharma-He should not be confused with a fundamentalist Religious leader.The Sage is a True advaitin and a Brahma JnAni and we need to understand his words in this sense.

Raading this post,i just wish to clear myself up,and explain what i ment by my last post in this thread. I saw one of Your previous posts to lead to same conclusion,but i did not responded from the simple reason i feel tired to explain what i mean. But,since it is my inability to convey my thoughts properly,i felt the need to clear it up.

I never ment on Sage of Kanchi in my post!!! In all posts i said i was talking about TODAY'S gurus and swamis. I ment those living today.

Also,to add one more time,i ment,in this case,only on sacrifices of animals!

About Sage of Kanchi i know very little. In fact,this Sage seems to have many names,so i needed a long time to understand that this is a same Sage. Since many members quote Him.

My post supposed to convey something bit different.

With love and prayers,

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #938 on: June 06, 2014, 07:47:12 PM »
jewell/Friends,
My comments are not aimed at anyone in particular.I do understand that you are not likely to know about this sage.There are people here in India who consider that the sage is only a 'pontiff' (without even reading any of his talks or about his life) parading old,outdated ideas.Please visit David's Blog:
http://sri-ramana-maharshi.blogspot.in/2011/07/curious-court-case.html
Please see the comments column all the way down to understand what I mean.
Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #939 on: June 06, 2014, 08:13:35 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Yes,i know about that case. I have read it before.

I think this time i wrote properly what i mean. All stays,with the difference only on whom i honestly and truly ment. So,how it will be interpretated from now on,i do not care. I said very clearly what i thought.

Thank You for sharing!

With love and prayers,

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #940 on: June 09, 2014, 01:55:33 PM »
Prof Krishnamurti Aiyer, an enlightened professor of physics said about Bhagavan:

" I observed the personal habits of Bhagavan and tried to follow his example. One noticed in Bhagavan's daily life, personal

cleanliness, tidiness of dress, habitual wearing of vibhuti and kumkum on the forehead; equal sharing of all enjoyments with those

around one; strict adherence to a time schedule; doing useful work however 'low' it be; never leaving a work unfinished; the pursuit of

perfection in every action; ... never considering oneself superior to others; speaking the truth always, or strict silence if the

expression of a truth would hurt or lower the reputation of others; perfect self-help, never asking another to do a piece of work which

can be done by oneself; taking full responsibility for failure, if any, without shifting the blame on others; accepting success and

failure with equanimity; never disturbing the peace of another; leaving the leaf-plate or plate clean after eating; complete non-

interference in the affairs of others..."
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #941 on: June 11, 2014, 02:52:21 PM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #942 on: June 15, 2014, 09:01:35 AM »
In the Stillness the voiceless one spoke:

"I am the atman.I am the I am."

"You are not this body,you are not this person thinking this or that-You are the Atman that I am.I am the Guru.I am  Ramakrishna,I am Ramana,I am Saibaba,I am Krishna.I am Jesus.Be aware of this simple Truth.It is on account of your thinking about yourself as a person,you think of Ramakrishna as a person,you think of Ramana as a person who lived on earth ;you then wonder where they are now;whether they will come to your rescue at the time of death.Stop this imagination that you are a person.Recognize here and now that you are the atman.See for yourself where The Guru was ,is and will be.Atman alone is".


atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #943 on: June 18, 2014, 01:25:14 PM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #944 on: June 24, 2014, 01:03:02 PM »
CONVERSATIONS WITH ANNAMMALAI SWAMI

Q: You often say that satsang is important. Can I have satsang of Bhagavan even though he is now dead? I am asking this because I once had a very powerful experience of his presence while I was in Switzerland. At that time Bhagavan had been dead for many years.

AS: Bhagavan is at all times and in all places. Since he is the Self and not any particular physical form, it is of little importance that the body that we took to be Bhagavan is now dead.

Radio waves can be received anywhere. If you tune yourself to Bhagavan's wave length, which means abiding in the Self, you can be aware of him broadcasting his grace wherever you are.

There is never any separation from Bhagavan. Every atom in the material universe is Bhagavan. Every act which happens in the world is done by Bhagavan alone. Every being, every form is Bhagavan's form. When you are clearly attuned to Bhagavan you will experience clarity and peace. You will receive guidance wherever you are.

Living by the Words of Bhagavan
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha