Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 313708 times)

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #870 on: April 20, 2014, 10:51:27 PM »
Christ is the ego. The Cross is the body. When the ego is crucified, and it perishes, what survives is the Absolute Being and this glorious survival is called Resurrection.

6th November, 1935
Talk 86.
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #871 on: April 21, 2014, 09:34:00 AM »
DEVOTEE: What then is the mind?

RAMANA MAHARSHI: Mind is consciousness which has put on limitations. You are originally unlimited and perfect. Later you take on limitations and become the mind.

D : It is 'avarana' (veiling) then. How does this happen?

M : To whom is the 'avarana'? It is the same as 'avidya' (ignorance), ego or the mind.

D : 'Avarana' means obscuration. Who is obscured? How does it arise?

M : The limitation is itself obscuration. No questions will arise if limitations are transcended.

~ from Talk-473

- Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya !
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #872 on: April 22, 2014, 09:06:39 AM »
"Are you in India now? Or is India in you? Even now this notion that you are in India must go. India is in you. In order to verify it, look to your sleep. Did you feel that you were in Europe or in India while asleep? You were nevertheless existing then the same as now."

(Bhagavan in 'Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi' 304)
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #873 on: April 23, 2014, 08:05:37 AM »
Subramanian/Balaji/Friends,

போக்கும் வரவுமில் பொதுவெளி யினிலருட்
 போராட் டங்காட் டருணாசலா.


Appropos our friend Subramanian's comment on verse 74 of akshara maNa mAlai:

Quote
Similarly in the verse 74. aruL poraatam does not mean the hay stack of grace.  It means the struggle between Jiva and
Siva and Siva in this graceful battle, finally confers Siva Jnanam.

K. Swaminthan says for this verse: 

"The struggle, dong dong battle, the prolonged wrestling which is the operation of grace.  In the Old Testament,
Jacob wrestles with God a whole long night, until God reveals Himself, as "I am That I am."

The interpretation of the word போராட்டம் has to be done along with the qualifier அருள்.It is அருட்போராட்டம்-
Just like Light does not battle with Darkness in order to dispel it,Grace has no need to battle or struggle with anything.

Further this ஆட்டம் or play takes place as the verse says in  போக்கும் வரவுமில் பொதுவெளி in that Transcendent Space devoid of any transaction,i.e devoid of mind-This refers to the Play of Grace as Pure consciousness.No struggle or battle is possible or implicit here.

Struggle belongs to the realm of inferior consciousness and is a product of ignorance.This is how Sri Ramakrishna says in the Gospel,as to how Grace operates:

Quote
one must be up and doing in the beginning. After that one need not work hard. The helmsman stands up and clutches the rudder firmly as long as the boat is
passing through waves, storms, high wind, or around the curves of a river; but he relaxes after steering through them. As soon as the boat passes the curves and the helmsman feels a favourable wind, he sits comfortably and just touches the rudder. Next he prepares to unfurl the sail and gets ready for a smoke. Likewise, the aspirant enjoys peace and calm after passing the waves and storms of 'woman and gold'
.

The favourable wind is the wind of Grace and the moment this is perceived,one gladly submits in a spirit of surrender.No more struggle is possible.

Also the jiva is not at loggerheads with siva.In his wonderful Ramana Stuti panchakam,Satyamanagalam Venkatramaiyer describes sri Bhagavan as :
ஜீவனும் சிவனும் ஒன்றாய் தேக்கிய குலத்த்தினான்-as one belongs to the clan of those whose manifest the at-one-ment of jiva and siva.

I prefer to interpret the word  அருட்போராட்டம் as the Play(and not struggle or war) of Heaped up Grace(not haystack!)-Dense mass of Chit in the chidAkAsA-This is the shivathAndava in chidambaram.

Namaskar.



« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 08:35:10 AM by Ravi.N »

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #874 on: April 23, 2014, 08:24:57 AM »
(Day by day with bhagavan)
20-4-46 a.noon


A Muslim visitor put some questions and got all the following answers.

Q : This body dies. But there is another imperishable body. What is it?

Bhagavan :
Imperishable body is a contradiction in terms. The term sariram means that which will perish. Of course, there is something imperishable, something which exists even after the body dies.

Q : It is said the Lord's light resides in the eye.

Bhagavan :
The eye does not see. That which gives light to it is the reality, whether we call it Lord's light or anything else.

Q : The lord has created all this, has He not? What was created first? It is said light or sound was created first.

Bhagavan :
All these things, which you say have been created have to be seen by you before you say they exist. There must be a seer. If you find out who that seer is, then you will know about creation and which was created first. Of course various theories as to what came into existence first from God are given out. Most, including scientists, agree that all has come from light and round.

Q : Can we call anything created, like this piece of wood, for example, God? It is said it is very wrong to do so.

Bhagavan :
Even this piece of wood, does it exist apart from God? Can we confine God to any time or space, since He is everywhere and in everything? We should not see anything as apart from God. That is all.

D.Mudaliar
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #875 on: April 23, 2014, 10:15:33 PM »
CHADWICK REMEMBERED

One night in the Hall there was some talk about reincarnation. Just as Bhagavan was getting up from his couch to go for his evening meal, I, as a joke, said, ?But Alan Chadwick has not been born before.?
?What, what did he say?? asked Bhagavan sharply. ?He said that he had never been born before,? someone wrongly interpreted. Of course I had not said that at all. I had meant that whatever form the ego took formerly it had never had the name and form Alan Chadwick, but had been some entirely different person. But Bhagavan replying to the wrong interpretation quickly replied, ?Oh, yes he had been, for what has brought us all together here again??

He never asked us what had brought us to him, but what had brought us again to Arunachala. He had so completely identified himself with the Mountain. This answer, though caused by a mistake, was very gratifying to me, as Bhagavan admitted the old connection between us. So must I always be with him until Self-realization, after which there will be no more he and I. I used to say that I must attain Self-realization in this life or Bhagavan would have to be born again so that I might be with him. So for his own good he must see that I gain my end in this life. Bhagavan would just smile. Though this was only said as a joke, there was a fundamental truth behind it.

A SADHU'S REMINISCENCES
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #876 on: April 27, 2014, 07:56:47 AM »
Friends,An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

The Master and his devotees were served by Jadu with sweets and fruit, and then the party left for the home of Khelat Ghosh.

Khelat Ghosh's house was a big mansion, but it looked deserted. As the Master entered the house he fell into an ecstatic mood. M., Ramlal, and a few other devotees were with him. Their host was Khelat Ghosh's brother-in-law. He was an old man, a Vaishnava. His body was stamped with the name of God, according to the Vaishnava custom, and he carried in his hand a small bag containing his rosary. He had visited the Master, now and then, at Dakshineswar. But most of the Vaishnavas held narrow religious views; they criticized the Vedantists and the followers of the Siva cult. Sri Ramakrishna soon began to speak.

Dogmatism condemned

MASTER: "It is not good to feel that one's own religion alone is true and all others are false. God is one only, and not two. Different people call on Him by different names: some as Allah, some as God, and others as Krishna, Siva, and Brahman. It is like the water in a lake. Some drink it at one place and call it 'jal', others at another place and call it 'pani', and still others at a third place and call it 'water'. The Hindus call it 'jal', the Christians 'water', and the Mussalmans 'pani'. But it is one and the same thing. Opinions are but paths. Each religion is only a path leading to God, as rivers come from different directions and ultimately become one in the one ocean.

Oneness of God

"The Truth established in the Vedas, the Puranas, and the Tantras is but one Satchidananda. In the Vedas It is called Brahman, in the Puranas It is called Krishna, Rama, and so on, and in the Tantras It is called Siva. The one Satchidananda is called Brahman, Krishna, and Siva." The devotees were silent.

A VAISHNAVA DEVOTEE: "Sir, why should one think of God at all"
MASTER: "If a man really has that knowledge, then he is indeed liberated though living in a body.

Shallow faith of the worldly-minded
"Not all, by any means, believe in God. They simply talk. The worldly-minded have heard from someone that God exists and that everything happens by His will; but it is not their inner belief.
"Do you know what a worldly man's idea of God is like? It is like the children's swearing by God when they quarrel. They have heard the word while listening to their elderly aunts quarreling.
"Is it possible for all to comprehend God? God has created the good and the bad, the devoted and the impious, the faithful and the sceptical. The wonders that we see all exist in His creation. In one place there is more manifestation of His Power, in another less. The sun's light is better reflected by water than by earth, and still better by a mirror. Again, there are different levels among the devotees of God: superior, mediocre, and inferior. All this has been described in the Gita."
VAISHNAVA: "True, sir."

Various classes of devotees

MASTER: "The inferior devotee says, 'God exists, but He is very far off, up there in heaven.' The mediocre devotee says, 'God exists in all beings as life and consciousness.' The superior devotee says: 'It is God Himself who has become everything; whatever I see is only a form of God. It is He alone who has become maya, the universe, and all living beings. Nothing exists but God.' "

Namaskar.

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #877 on: April 27, 2014, 08:01:44 PM »
CHADWICK REMEMBERED

So I decided that the seeker himself was God or, as Bhagavan puts it, the Self. My method of meditation then, was to make the mind cease from thinking as an individual and just rest in its God-head: ?Do not think. Be!?

I recognized, of course, the danger of a blank and was under no delusion that such a blank could be a goal or an end in itself. This form of meditation I carried on, off and on, from 1924 until I came to Tiruvannamalai eleven years later. But in between times were periods when I did not meditate at all. I had a conviction that I could not lead a worldly life and at the same time strive after spiritual attainment; the two things for me dwelt in separate compartments. I had not then realized the truth of Advaita that there could be no splitting in this way, that the worldly life was just as unreal as the unworldly life, or, if you prefer, that both were as real as each other.

They were Prarabdha, which had in any case to be worked out; that actually there was no such thing as good and evil, only attachment; that actions were actions and it was identifying oneself with such that mattered and not the actions in themselves. I still believed in the importance of morals, as such, as absolute standards, and, so my meditation could be nothing but a spasmodic affair.

No doubt in some ways, at least as a beginning, this was good, for in the earlier stages there must be a rule or some sort of code to keep oneself concentrated on the work, though this rule will automatically drop away in time. However, as time went on, I became convinced that my attitude had been wrong, that, whatever one?s
life, a short period of meditation should be practiced each day, preferably in the early morning.

That the method that I devised of stilling the mind and concentrating on my own essential core, which I had decided was God, differed little from the method of seeking out the Self by constant enquiry and search for the Witness as taught by Bhagavan, there can be no doubt. I was lucky that the Truth came to me so easily. Of course it bore out Bhagavan?s saying that, ?Chadwick was with us before, he was one of us. He had some desire to be born in the West, and that he has now fulfilled.? So it seems that the memory of the teaching given in a previous birth was bearing fruit in this.

A Sadhu?s Reminiscences of Ramana Maharshi
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #878 on: April 27, 2014, 09:47:03 PM »
HAPPINESS AND FULFILLMENT COME ONLY FROM THE SELF

To keep the mind in the Self one must have no desires for anything other than the Self. This is a very difficult state to attain. The desire to seek pleasures in the outside world always seems to be stronger than the desire to seek pleasure in the Self. Why is this so?

Annamalai Swami: All happiness ultimately comes from the Self. It does not come from the mind, the body or from external objects. If you have a great desire for a mango, when you finally eat one there is great feeling of pleasure. When a desire is fulfilled, the mind sinks a little way into the Self and enjoys some of the bliss that is always present there. Then it rises again. It remembers the happiness and tries to repeat the experience by eating more mangoes or gratifying other desires.

Most people are completely unaware that pleasure and happiness come from the Self, not from the mind or the body. Because most people have only experienced the peace of the Self when a great desire has been fulfilled, the come to the conclusion that the pursuit of desires is the only way to get an experience of happiness and peace.

If you try to follow this standard route to happiness you will end up with a lot of frustration and a lot of suffering. You may occasionally experience a few brief moments of pleasure, but for the rest of the time you will experience the pain of frustrated desires, of desires that don?t seem to produce any pleasure when they are fulfilled.

If you try to repeat pleasures again and again the novelty soon wears off. A mango, which you have been looking forward to for days, may give you a few seconds of happiness when you eat it, but eating five or six more will not prolong your pleasure. Prolonged indulgence is more likely to produce pain than pleasure.

Most people in the world spend their whole lives self-indulgently pursuing goals, which they think will produce happiness for them. Most of these people never stop to do mental accounts properly. If they did they would realize that each ten seconds of happiness is followed by hours or days when there is no happiness at all. Some people do realize this, but instead of giving up this way of life, they indulge in it even more. They think that with a little more effort and a little more sensory, mental or emotional indulgence they can expand the short periods of happiness and contract the longer intervening periods when happiness is not experienced.

This approach never works. If there are many strong desires in the mind, the mind cannot sink completely into the Self and experience the full peace and bliss that is there. ?

The desire-filled mind only experiences the bliss of the Self in a very diluted form. If you want the full bliss of the Self, and if you want to experience it permanently, you will have to give up all our desires and attachments. There is no other way.

- Living by the Words of Bhagavan, p. 295
« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 09:50:21 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #879 on: April 28, 2014, 05:02:05 PM »
GRACE AND INDIVIDUAL EFFORT

D.: How long is a Guru necessary for Self-Realization?

M.: Guru is necessary so long as there is the laghu. (Pun on Guru = heavy; laghu = light). Laghu is due to the self-imposed but wrong limitation of the Self. God, on being worshipped, bestows steadiness
in in devotion which leads to surrender.

On the devotee surrendering, God shows His mercy by manifesting as the Guru. The Guru, otherwise God, guides the devotee, saying that God is in you and He is the Self. This leads to introversion of the mind and finally to realization.

Effort is necessary up to the state of realization. Even then the Self should spontaneously become evident. Otherwise happiness will not be complete. Up to that state of spontaneity there must be effort in some form or another.

Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi no 78
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #880 on: April 29, 2014, 11:55:43 AM »
COHEN ARRIVES AT RAMANASRAMAM


The third of February 1936, early morning, saw my horse-cart rolling on the uneven two-and-a-half- mile road from Tiruvannamalai railway station to Ramanashram. I was led to a small dining room, at the door of which I was asked to remove my shoes. As I was trying to unlace them, my eyes fell on a pleasant looking middle-aged man inside the room, wearing nothing but a kaupina, with eyes as cool as moonbeams, sitting on the floor before a leaf-plate nearly emptied, and beckoning me with the gentlest of nods and the sweetest smile imaginable.

I was alone in the Hall with him. Joy and peace suffused my being - such a delightful feeling of purity and well-being at the mere proximity of a man, I never had before. My mind was already in deep contemplation of him - him not as flesh, although that was exquisitely formed and featured, but as an unsubstantial principle which could make itself so profoundly felt despite the handicap of a heavy material vehicle. When after a while I became aware of my environment, I saw him looking at me with large penetrating eyes, wreathed in smiles rendered divinely soothing by their child-like innocence.

All of a sudden I felt something fall in my lap and heard the jingling of keys - my keys! I looked up at the Maharshi extremely puzzled. The man - Sri Ramaswami Pillai - who had dropped them through the door behind me came in and explained that he had gone to the railway station on a bicycle and found the station master waiting for him. It appears that during the few minutes that the train had stopped at the station a passenger had providentially entered the very compartment I had vacated, and, seeing the keys on the seat, he picked them up, and, wonder of wonders! ran up to the station master and handed them over to him. The latter by an unusual flash of intuition surmised that the keys belonged to an Ashram visitor, whom he might have seen in the train in the morning, and awaited a claim for them. It was a series of miracles which occurred on my behalf in the short space of barely ninety minutes, of which I was blissfully ignorant, absorbed as I was in the entrancing personality of this magnificent human magnet - Sri Ramana Bhagavan. It is needless to say that from that day Ramanashram became my permanent home.

-Guru Ramana
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #881 on: April 30, 2014, 10:26:40 AM »
Sri Ramana regarded the law of karma as a manifestation of God?s will.

He said that prior to Selfrealization there is a personal God, Iswara, who controls each person?s destiny.

It is Iswara who has ordained that everyone must suffer the consequences of his actions and it is Iswara who selects the sequence of activities that each person must undergo in each lifetime.

One cannot escape from Iswara?s jurisdiction while one still identifies with the activities of the body.

The only way to become free of his authority is to transcend karma completely by realising the Self.

Ramana Maharshi Be As You Are page 130.
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #882 on: April 30, 2014, 01:01:40 PM »
Vasudeva Sastri recounted another incident, which he had seen:

?One day, when we were at Skandasramam, I was aghast to find a scorpion climbing up over Bhagavan?s body in the front and another at the same time climbing down his back. I was terrified and wanted to do something. But Bhagavan remained calm, as if nothing happened, and the two scorpions, after crawling over his body as if over a wall, eventually left him. After they left, Bhagavan explained to us, ?They crawl over you just as they would crawl on the floor or a wall or tree. Do they crawl over these, stinging as they go? It is only because you fear them and do something that they fear you and do something in return?.?

Day by Day, 5-10-46
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 01:04:45 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #883 on: May 02, 2014, 01:46:32 PM »
PEACE OF THE SELF AND WORK

Q: How can we combine spiritual and worldly life?
M: There is only one experience. What are worldly experi?ences but those built up on the false 'I'?

Q: Worldly life is very distracting.
M: Do not allow yourself to be distracted! Find out for whom there is distraction. It will not bother you after a little practice.

M: Who is the worker? Let him who works ask the question. You are always the Self, not the mind.
It is the mind which raises these questions. Work always goes along in the presence of the Self. Work is no hindrance to realization.

It is the mis?taken identity of the worker that is the trouble. Get rid of the false identity. Activities go on automatically every day. Know that the mind prompting them is but a phantom proceeding from the Self. Why do you think that you are active? The activities are not your own; they are God's.

- Conscious Immortality
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #884 on: May 02, 2014, 02:27:09 PM »
NOT ALLOWED TO RUN AWAY ...

This morning a person came and prostrated himself before Bhagavan at the dining hall. He almost touched him, and as I was wondering who it could be, the person announced himself to Bhagavan as Vasu and Bhagavan said, ?Is it you? If you had not said it, I should never have recognized you. You have gone down so much.? The visitor replied, ?I find I must say the same about Bhagavan.? To this Bhagavan said, ?Why, what is the matter with me? Probably because you are reduced, your eyesight has also become reduced and I appear reduced to you!? Later, in the hall, Bhagavan introduced this gentleman to all present and said, ?This is the Vasu who caught hold of me when returning from an oil bath one hot day to Skandasramam and I had that experience of what seemed like utter collapse with even the heartbeat stopping.? Then Vasudeva Sastri said, ?I was then too young. I did not even know that it was death. But because Palaniswami started crying, I thought it was death and I caught hold of Bhagavan and I was trembling with grief.? Bhagavan said here, ?I could even in that state clearly see his trembling and emotion.? V. added that, after Bhagavan recovered, he told V. and Palani, ?What? You thought I died? Did you believe I would die even without telling you??
Bhagavan also said, ?We were in Virupakshi Cave and when a tiger came that way one night, this is the person who hastily ran into the cave leaving us in the verandah, shut the door and then cried to the tiger, ?Come on now. What can you do??? V. said, ?Once Bhagavan and I went round the Hill during the Skandasramam days. When we reached near Easanya Mutt about 8-30 a.m., Bhagavan sat on a rock and said with tears in his eyes he would never again come to the Asramam and would go where he pleased and live in the forests or caves away from all men. I would not leave him and he would not come. It became very late. We went there about 8 or 8-30 a.m. and even when it became 1 p.m. we were still in this deadlock. Bhagavan asked me to go into the town and eat my food and then come back if I wanted. But I was afraid that if I went Bhagavan would go away somewhere. Meanwhile, the Swami of Easanya Mutt very unexpectedly came that way. Ordinarily it could not be expected he would have come there at that time at all. But strange to say, he came that way and he persuaded Bhagavan to go with him to Easanya Mutt. I left Bhagavan there and ran up to the town for my food and came back swiftly, fearing that Bhagavan might have left. But I found him there and we both came to Skandasramam afterwards.?

When this was mentioned, Bhagavan said, ?Another time too I wanted to run away from all this crowd and live somewhere unknown, freely as I liked. That was when I was in Virupakshi Cave. I felt my being there was an inconvenience and hardship to Jadaswami and some other swamis there. But on that occasion my plans were frustrated by Yogananda Swami. I tried to be free on a third occasion also. That was after mother?s passing away. I did not want to have even an Asramam like Skandasramam and the people that were coming there then. But the result has been this Asramam and all the crowd here. Thus all my three attempts failed.?

Day by Day, 5-10-46
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha