Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 349720 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #735 on: September 05, 2013, 07:16:33 AM »
Hari/Krishna/Friends,

Quote
I think that the central message in Shirdi Sai Baba is complete surrender to Guru, faith in God, Shraddha (faith) ad Saburi (perseverance, patience).

Absolutely.This is the core teaching of all Sages and Saints.

Here are a few  excerpts from a very good article -Hinduism -Path of Ancient Wisdom,Chapter 55-Hinduism and Interfaith,The Future Trends in our world.I just chanced upon this article and I find it quite good.

1.At the World’s Parliament of Religions, held at Chicago in 1893, Swami Vivekananda quoted a beautiful verse from ancient Hindu scripture, Shiva Mahimna Stotra:
 
 
Quote
Akashath patitam toyam,
  Yatha gachathi sagaram,
  Sarva deva, namaskarayenam,
  Keshavam pratigachati.

  “As different streams having their sources in different places all mingle their waters in the sea, so, O Lord, the different paths, which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee.”

 He concluded his address by summarizing the message of his master, Sri Ramakrishna: “Criticize no one, for all doctrines and creeds have some good in them. Show by your lives that religion does not mean words, or names, or sects, but that it means spiritual realization.”

2.There is reason to believe that all religions have an internal bonding. Even as there are many differences, there are also amazing similarities. The Kabbalah sect of Judaism, the Sufism of Islam, and the Gnosticism of Christianity share a lot in common with Hinduism. Perhaps there is a divine purpose, both in the diversity and unity of faiths. Said Sadhu T. L. Vaswani, one of the most prominent saints of the last century:
 
Quote
There are so many who can believe only one thing at a time. I am so made as to rejoice in the many and behold the beauty of the One in the many. Hence my natural affinity to many religions: in them all I see revelations of the One spirit. And deep in my heart is the conviction that I am a servant of all prophets
.
 
This sacred message of the great Hindu saint very deftly and comprehensively conveys the philosophy of interfaith.

I am immensely gratified to chance upon this quote of Sadhu T L Vaswani.I deeply cherish the same view.

Sri Ramakrishna exemplified it in his Life and teachings.  Those interested may read the complete article here:
http://hinduismpath.com/book-contents/chapter-55/
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #736 on: September 05, 2013, 07:29:38 AM »
Friends,
Swami Vivekananda composed this wonderful Hymn on Sri Ramakrishna:

Quote
Sthapakaya Cha Dharmasya, Sarvadharma Svaroopine
Avataraya Varishthaya, Ramakrishnaya te namah

To the One who came to establish Dharma, one who is the personification of all faiths and religions,
One who is the greatest embodiment of the Divine, to that Ramakrishna I offer my salutations

He composed it spontaneously in navagopal's house(February 6,1898).Who is Navagopal?A very interesting story.It is beautifully narrated in this pictorial story(I like Pictorial stories):
http://www.rkmission-shivanahalli.org/philosophy.html

An Excerpt from this story:

Quote
Sri Ramakrishna : Kishori, once you brought to me one Navagopal who treats the sick and the suffering freely. I must see him again.
Kishori : Sir, I shall certainly bring him
.

This is so typical of the avatara that the Master was.He used to go after the humble and lowly people as also the Haughty and Rich people as well.He took the initiative and visit them,often in their houses.He used to seek appointments and meet them!He never minded even if they were indifferent or disrespectful to him.Such was his supreme compassion.

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #737 on: September 05, 2013, 10:38:31 AM »
Sri Ravi,

This, Swami's composition, is one of the most beautiful shloka,
i have ever come across. I have been listening to this since my
childhood days sung by MS  what a beautiful pictorial
representation of the same in the site you have provided.

स्थापकाय च धर्मस्य सर्व धर्म स्वरूपिणे ।
अवतार वरिष्टाय रामकृष्णाय ते नम: ॥


--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ksksat27

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #738 on: September 05, 2013, 10:19:45 PM »
Dear Krishnan,

i really like your sweet earnestness:

What I have observed both on Thakur and Shirdi Sai Baba is --  they seemed to met lot of people with different mind inclinations to such a degreet that there is no central core message they delivered.

 :D



Dear Nagaraj,

You and Ravi Sir both are coming with sugar candy and mixing in your sentences and devotion par excellence in all your Shirdi Sai Baba posts. 

Compared to that sweetness what mine is. :) :) :) :)

ksksat27

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #739 on: September 06, 2013, 01:13:21 AM »
ksksat(Krishna),
You have posted the following:
1.that you have read 'extracts' from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna
2.They seemed to meet lot of people with different mind inclinations to such a degreet that there is no central core message they delivered.(Sri Ramakrishna and Sai Baba)
3.I will later create a separate topic on how each Guru has his own style of dealing with our minds.



Dear Sri Ravi,

Thanks for giving the nice quote from Gospel. I think I did not properly elaborate on the 'core message' stuff I found with Shirdi Sai and Sri Thakur.

I have and read many conversations , teachings and experience of devotees with both the above masters (like Gospel of Holy Mother,  Holy Mother biography, Indira Kher Sai Satcharitha big volume)

What I observed this ,  these two Masters especially just reflected the questioner's mind. 

For eg, Though we say that Sri Thakur practicsed all relegions to show unity etc.  these are our own interpretation.  Today I read somewhere ( a small booklet from Ramakrishna math on Holy Mother  teachings) that even She does not agree that Thakur did practice all religions with a purpose to show unity.

So coming to the main point, these two teachers had all along encouraged many visitors to increase faith and practice devotion (also jnana related and raja yoga related upadesas).  But so vast is their conversations and so different they are that it is very difficult to interpret a common theme on them.

It is just like throwing a dice ,  moment to moment out of that great emptiness filled with Brahman light,  they threw out messages to the 'ego-mind bodies' standing infront of them. 

So vast,  so inclusive no one thing in particular can be pointed out as a 'central' theme.

But in case of Bhagavan Ramana he dealt totally differently with  his famous brahmastrham of 'to whom all these questions' .  ie Self Enquiry.

Certainly one has to accept that Bhagavan's most famous message was Self Enquiry while such a thing cannot be pointed out in the Vast Ocean of conversations with the other two masters.

This is just a curious Acharya Bhavam (the bhava of being in wonder on seeing a great mahatma and his style of messages)


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #740 on: September 06, 2013, 07:24:48 AM »
ksksat(Krsihna)
I have read your post and have recommended what I have already done in anticipation.

Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

Quote
Men feel that way when they are just beginning to develop spiritual yearning. A storm raises clouds of dust, and one cannot distinguish between the different trees-the mango, the hog plum, and the tamarind. But after the storm blows over, one sees clearly. After the first storm of divine passion is quelled, one gradually understands that God alone is the Highest Good, the Eternal Substance, and that all else is transitory. One cannot grasp this without tapasya and the company of holy men. What is the use of merely reciting the written parts for the drum? It is very difficult to put them into practice on the instrument. What can be accomplished by a mere lecture? It is austerity that is necessary. By that alone can one comprehend.

The above words of the Master was said in a particular context but the implication of the teaching is far reaching and is relevant for our present context as well.
In the beginning,when we embark on the spiritual path ,as and when we read the lives and teachings of the Great ones-there is the comparison and contrasting of the approaches,weighing of their relative merits and demerits,etc,etc.This is like 'A storm raises a cloud of dust' that the Master is referring to.It is only when one practices Sadhana and develops the 'Insight' then one understands the 'Central and Vital Message'-The thread that runs through the various gems in a Necklace-that 'God alone is the Highest Good, the Eternal Substance, and that all else is transitory'.(Did you get this message in the Bhagavata pandit story?)

All the Sages and Saints are saying only this core message.

This is the reason that I have asked you to 'soak' into The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna.'Reading' it will not do.By going through the passages over and over again(you will find many repetitions,as the Master uses almost the same expressions again and again over the pages of this book) and soaking into it with devotion,will help us to get the 'message that it has for me' and not just that -I have to 'Become' or 'Be' that Teaching.

The Bhagavata pandit story means what I have stated above-'Oh! Man.Do not be satisfied with just a cursory understanding of Bhagavatha or any other book.Become a Bhagavata'.It is only then we may say-'I am beginning to understand'.Until then we tend to think-'Oh!That message is for that Chap.Not for Me'.We tend to look at it as 'individual Pieces',stray messages with no thread running through it.

This is what Sage Tiruvalluvar says:

தொட்டனைத்த்தூறும் மணற்கேணி;மாந்தர்க்குக்
கார்றானைத்த்தூறும் அறிவு

The above saying has spelling mistakes -I have to come to grips with the yahoo tamizh transliterator.I will correct it when I find time.Yet,the gist of it is clear.

Wishing you the very Best.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #741 on: September 06, 2013, 07:44:21 AM »
ksksat(krishna),

Quote
But in case of Bhagavan Ramana he dealt totally differently with  his famous brahmastrham of 'to whom all these questions' .  ie Self Enquiry.

Certainly one has to accept that Bhagavan's most famous message was Self Enquiry while such a thing cannot be pointed out in the Vast Ocean of conversations with the other two masters.

This is just a curious Acharya Bhavam (the bhava of being in wonder on seeing a great mahatma and his style of messages)

This is okay but the True Acharya Bhavam is to apply the 'Brahmastram' in the full sense of the term and not just appreciate or admire the 'Brahmastram'.I will narrate a story I heard from Master TGN.

"There was a Rich man in a City who had a Huge Bank account.Yet he was a Miser.He never used to withdraw a single paise from that account.People used to speak about him whenever he used to walk by on foot through the lanes-'Oh!He holds a lot of money in Bank'.
A Beggar who happened to hear that quipped-'I am also a joint holder of that account.We have decided not to use that money.It is only on account of that,I am begging in the street'!

The Message is -The Money that is not put into use is not worth it.

I have been wanting to share little clips that I had posted in David's Blog a couple of years back.It is on the theme-Adoration vs Admiration.I am trying to search for it there.It appears to be a Needle in a Haystack type of situation at the moment. :)

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #742 on: September 06, 2013, 08:46:31 AM »
ksksat(Krishna)/friends,

We have been  exploring the import and dimension of the saying:'Ekam Sat vipraha Bahuda vadanti'.

This should be clearly understood.This is Sri Ramakrishna's core message.His parable of the Chamaleon and the Dyer and his tub brings this out.Rather than to understand intellectually,we have to understand experientially.We no more have any doubts then regarding this.

Namaskar
« Last Edit: September 06, 2013, 08:48:36 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #743 on: September 06, 2013, 12:31:03 PM »
Nagaraj/Friends,
I always enjoy Sri Nochur's talks,imbued with jnana-bhakti.
There are two excerpts from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna that I consider as 'Brahmastram' for the devotee. :)

Here they are(Nagaraj posted one of these recently in this forum):
Master's prayer
The devotees seated in the room looked at Sri Ramakrishna as he began to chant the sweet name of the Divine Mother. After the chanting he began to pray. What was the need of prayer to a soul in constant communion with God? Did he not rather want to teach erring mortals how to pray?

Addressing the Divine Mother, he said, "O Mother, I throw myself on Thy mercy; I take shelter at Thy Hallowed Feet. I do not want bodily comforts; I do not crave name and fame; I do not seek the eight occult powers. Be gracious and grant that I may have pure love for Thee, a love unsmitten by desire, untainted by any selfish ends-a love craved by the devotee for the sake of love alone. And grant me the favour, O mother, that I may not be deluded by Thy world-bewitching maya, that I may never be attached to the world, to 'woman and gold', conjured up by Thy inscrutable maya! O mother, there is no one but thee whom I may call my own. Mother, I do not know how to worship; I am without austerity; I have neither devotion nor knowledge. Be gracious, Mother, and out of Thy infinite mercy grant me love for Thy Lotus Feet."

Every word of this prayer, uttered from the depths of his soul, stirred the minds of the devotees. The melody of his voice and
the childlike simplicity of his face touched their hearts very deeply
.

The key thing is to get rid of self complacency and resort to a 'simple' 'direct' child like prayer -in one's own words and invoke the Grace of God from the depth of our heart.This would melt the recalcitrant stony obstacle and help us to stay tuned.

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #744 on: September 06, 2013, 12:51:10 PM »
The Excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued...

MASTER: "one should think of God. It is not good to forget Him."
NANDA: "But how little we think of God!"
MASTER: "One thinks of God through His grace."
NANDA: "But how can we obtain God's grace? Has He really the power to bestow grace?"

Master's prayer

MASTER (smiling): "I see. You think as the intellectuals do: one reaps the results of one's actions. Give up these ideas. The effect of karma wears away if one takes refuge in God. I prayed to the Divine Mother with flowers in my hand:
'Here, Mother, take Thy sin; here, take Thy virtue. I don't want either of these; give me only real bhakti. Here, Mother, take
Thy good; here, take Thy bad. I don't want any of Thy good or bad; give me only real bhakti. Here, Mother, take Thy dharma; here, take Thy adharma. I don't want any of Thy dharma or adharma; give me only real bhakti. Here, Mother, take Thy knowledge; here, take Thy ignorance. I don't want any of Thy knowledge or ignorance; give me only real bhakti. Here, Mother, take Thy purity; here, take Thy impurity. Give me only real bhakti.
'

This is the perfect attitude of surrender and invokes  Grace.Ofcourse,it does require weeding out kama,krodha,and the rest and preparing the ground through sama,dama,etc to have the required attitude;Preparation by way of Vairagya and viveka is essential.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #745 on: September 07, 2013, 05:13:05 PM »
Friends,
In all forums and in all places of worship,I encounter a question-'Are you a Ramakrishna Devotee'?'Are you a sai devotee?'Are you a Ramana Devotee'?
My answer will be a low key-'I am just a devotee.I come here occasionally'.
Although all the Great ones have taught us that God is one,and Guru is God-Many agree and appreciate this,yet rare are those who are totally free from any trace of sectarian outlook.
We certainly have our individual predeliction and a certain teaching and Teacher will appeal to us more than others.This is perfectly alright.Yet,we need to grasp the fundamental fact that the teacher or Guru is teaching us.
Quote
"Master:Satchidananda alone is the Guru. If a man in the form of a guru awakens spiritual consciousness in you, then know for certain that it is God the Absolute who has assumed that human form for your sake. The guru is like a companion who leads you by the hand".

This has to be clearly grasped.

We also have this teaching:
Unswerving devotion to God

Quote
MASTER: "You should undoubtedly bow before all views. But there is a thing called unswerving devotion to one ideal. True, you should salute everyone. But you must love one ideal with your whole soul. That is unswerving devotion.
"Hanuman could not take delight in any other form than that of Rama. The gopis had such single-minded love for the cowherd Krishna of Vrindavan that they did not care to see the turbaned Krishna of Dwaraka.
"A wife may serve her husband's brothers by fetching water, or in other ways, but she cannot serve them in the way she does her husband. With him she has a special
relationship."

This teaching clarifies on Devotion to the 'Ishta'.We need to understand clearly what the Master is saying here-He says - for the cowherd Krishna of Vrindavan that they did not care to see the turbaned Krishna of Dwaraka.

This clearly means that the ideal worshipped is not to be turned into an 'Object'.The Object of worship is Krishna but it is 'Krishna ,the cowherd-the sweet one ,accessible to the Gopis'-this is the 'ideal' for the Gopis;not the Lordly Krishna,the Turbaned one,king of Dwaraka'.

The Chosen ideal thus is very much an inner one that corresponds to one's deepest aspirations.This should not be turned into a Fetish-as an Object of admiration;to be differentiated from all the other objects of worship and eulogized and deified.

This is the breeding ground for sects and cults.

continued....



ksksat27

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #746 on: September 08, 2013, 06:57:08 AM »
Friends,
In all forums and in all places of worship,I encounter a question-'Are you a Ramakrishna Devotee'?'Are you a sai devotee?'Are you a Ramana Devotee'?
My answer will be a low key-'I am just a devotee.I come here occasionally'.
Although all the Great ones have taught us that God is one,and Guru is God-Many agree and appreciate this,yet rare are those who are totally free from any trace of sectarian outlook.
We certainly have our individual predeliction and a certain teaching and Teacher will appeal to us more than others.This is perfectly alright.Yet,we need to grasp the fundamental fact that the teacher or Guru is teaching us.
Quote
"Master:Satchidananda alone is the Guru. If a man in the form of a guru awakens spiritual consciousness in you, then know for certain that it is God the Absolute who has assumed that human form for your sake. The guru is like a companion who leads you by the hand".

This has to be clearly grasped.

We also have this teaching:
Unswerving devotion to God

Quote
MASTER: "You should undoubtedly bow before all views. But there is a thing called unswerving devotion to one ideal. True, you should salute everyone. But you must love one ideal with your whole soul. That is unswerving devotion.
"Hanuman could not take delight in any other form than that of Rama. The gopis had such single-minded love for the cowherd Krishna of Vrindavan that they did not care to see the turbaned Krishna of Dwaraka.
"A wife may serve her husband's brothers by fetching water, or in other ways, but she cannot serve them in the way she does her husband. With him she has a special
relationship."

This teaching clarifies on Devotion to the 'Ishta'.We need to understand clearly what the Master is saying here-He says - for the cowherd Krishna of Vrindavan that they did not care to see the turbaned Krishna of Dwaraka.

This clearly means that the ideal worshipped is not to be turned into an 'Object'.The Object of worship is Krishna but it is 'Krishna ,the cowherd-the sweet one ,accessible to the Gopis'-this is the 'ideal' for the Gopis;not the Lordly Krishna,the Turbaned one,king of Dwaraka'.

The Chosen ideal thus is very much an inner one that corresponds to one's deepest aspirations.This should not be turned into a Fetish-as an Object of admiration;to be differentiated from all the other objects of worship and eulogized and deified.

This is the breeding ground for sects and cults.

continued....

dear Ravi Sir,

I think one has to identify oneself as Ramana devotee or any Guru's devotee.

This will make him stick to that  one path .  I think Me, Subramaniam sir and few others may belong to this category.  This does not mean looking down on other paths. Having one pointed focus and complete faith in one Guru will make the progress very easier

I think there are two extremes --  one extreme is the fanatic Sri Vaishnava and ISCKON attitude (no offense meant just putting things as it happens).  This extreme scolds and abuses Advaitins as Mayavadis etc.   This is not required.  Instead they should spend time in focussing on Vishnu alone.

In the other soft corner extreme,  people like you who wants to accept All from Aurobindo to Ramana Maharishee,  all philosophies, all teachings ,  everything without leaving anything.   This group is sweet to all, not fanatic.

But I feel both extremes are not really suitable for majority of sadhaks.

One has to accept all, but still one has to keep his focus on One Guru alone.  By experience, I have felt this. I was knocking at every door earlier from Hare Krishna movement , then to Aurobindo and finally found solace only at the feet of our beloved Bhagvan Ramana Maharishee.

The lesson I learnt is,  stick to one path,  adore all,  read about anybody but please surrender and belong to one place only.

 :) :)Personal opinion:  Seeing all your post, hearing all your stories, I think , even though you may not agree you belong to Thakur Ramakrishna paramahamsa.  You are under his spell of love and devotion and He will protect you. I recollect a train incident you quoted where the sadhu told you the same thing. If you go to Ramakrishna math, you will attain.

At the same time, I totally acknowledge and accept this:  having darshan of different living saints, which you were most lucky to do ( I request you post a series of your encounter and golden moments of meeting Annamalai Swami(first time meet atleast), Anandamayi ma, Kanchi Periavaa  and many others whom you have met.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #747 on: September 08, 2013, 08:08:51 AM »
Ksksat27(Krishna),

Quote
In the other soft corner extreme,  people like you who wants to accept All from Aurobindo to Ramana Maharishee,  all philosophies, all teachings ,  everything without leaving anything.   This group is sweet to all, not fanatic.

Friend,is this not the essence of sanatana Dharma?

Quote
Aano bhadra krtavo yantu vishwatah
"Let noble thoughts come to all from all sides"-Rig Veda

This is what Sri Ramakrishna exemplified.Don't you think that if we adore Sri Ramakrishna,we cannot set aside his life and teachings?One has to be all embracing.Ditto with Sri Bhagavan.
If we get deep into the individual it is the universal.If we get deep into the universal we find the individual(eka jiva).These are complementary.The problem lies not in getting deep.
The 'Nishta' is a very useful aid to get deep and is necessary.Without this depth  It can easily turn into a cult.

Quote
The lesson I learnt is,  stick to one path,  adore all,  read about anybody but please surrender and belong to one place only.

This is perfectly okay.Did you recommend this in your post?Please review your post and validate :)

Quote
I think , even though you may not agree you belong to Thakur Ramakrishna paramahamsa.  You are under his spell of love and devotion and He will protect you. I recollect a train incident you quoted where the sadhu told you the same thing. If you go to Ramakrishna math, you will attain

I recall the 'Train Incident' I have posted.It is to Highlight that The 'Guru' will be with you.It is to say that the Sadhu was made to Retract his statement.I was anyway going to 'Ramakrishna Mutt' without his saying.I generally do not share any personal stories ,except what can be shared in a general way and which may interest others.

Namaskar.


« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 08:11:10 AM by Ravi.N »

deepa

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #748 on: September 08, 2013, 08:37:06 AM »

Raviji,
I am inspired by your broad thinking and being like Dattatreya.

I believe though that there is a stage in the journey of a sadhakas where "Ananya" guru bhakthi is necessary.. Otherwise, a immature or partly mature mind may create unnecessary confusion. I struggled this for a while between bhagawan Ramana and my Chinmaya mission guru on one side and kanchi periyava on the other. At a fundamental level, they are all "different lamps glowing with the same light", but our limited mind tends to confuse between the teachings.

A friend of mine got totally conflicted between Chinmaya mission, which she was coming to regularly and Chinna Jeeyar (vaishnava guru) whom her family followed. She ended up dropping out of Chinmaya as she could not remain comfortable with the mix.

For that reason, considering my nebulous state of mind, I have decided to stick to bhagawan and Chinmaya mission acharya who I believe is no other than bhagawan!!
Deepa


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #749 on: September 08, 2013, 09:01:47 AM »
Jewell,

Quote
Dear Sri Ravi,
My reaction other day was like that coz dont think You can explain others people intention,for simply reason You cannot know someone's intention. It is His to say,not Yours.
Also,i dont agree that we need a leaving Guru,coz my Guru said so. That is final autority for me. What anybody else will do is not my problem,but I am against aimlessly searching for Guru,after Bhagavan or Sri Nisargadatta,or Sri Ramakrishna. If someone is not pleased with them,he will not be pleased ever. It is tricky to find true Guru in these times,a living one.
And something very important,we actualy have a leaving guru. ARUNACHALA
And I strongly disagree that ego can be left to play servant,or anything else. Either You have it,or dont. God does not need servants,and Gurus also. All that is for us,not for God. Bhagavan did not want servants,Maharaj also,in fact,all were only bother to them I believe. So,for me,only ego extintion is realisation. And,again and again,dear Sri Ravi, You turn this like bhakti jnana war,when actually,it is not,but my general" disagreement with Your presentation and view of bhakti. I could be also wrong,i leave that possability,but honestly,i dont think so.
I dont have anything against You Sir,this is just conflict of views.
With love and prayers

I thought that it will be helpful to respond to this post.

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My reaction other day was like that coz dont think You can explain others people intention,for simply reason You cannot know someone's intention. It is His to say,not Yours.


This is to clarify that that excerpt from Sri Ramakrishna on Ekadasi was primarily on what he said on 'Ekadasi'-and that he was recommending it to 'M' who was educated along modern lines that considered all such practices as quaint and outmoded.I further explained the sense of the term 'English-Man' used by the Master.I thought it necessary that those from the 'Western world' do not take it amiss.The 'Principle' behind what Nagaraj posted to which you Reacted(not responded)was also the same if you carefully read it.There was no 'Partisan' approach in this.It is to emphasize that Religion(Dharma)provides the foundation for True Vichara.This is how Vichara has been Practised all along-and the age we live in is  is no different.It is not meant to differentiate the Westerners from the ones in India.By the way,if one is doing self enquiry and fulltime at that-why should he or she identify thinking-'I am a Westerner.This message is malicious and Rude'.It should be precisely here that Self enquiry needs to be there! :)

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And I strongly disagree that ego can be left to play servant,or anything else.

Excellent.Why not dispense it?If one cannot do this,then what is one to do with it?Leave it as it is hoping that someday it will vanish?

It is precisely for this reason that Sri Ramakrishna says:

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since a man cannot easily get rid of his ego, he should let the rascal remain as the servant of God, the devotee of God
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We know this as well.It does not require a Ramakrishna to tell us!

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Bhagavan did not want servants,Maharaj also,in fact,all were only bother to them I believe.


Assuredly.It is we who need to Realize that we are The Brahman.If not ,the next best thing is to be their Devotees.To be a servant of man is a dismal thing(and we have no qualms about it when we are in employment!)but to be a servant of God is a wonderful thing.Every devotee,including you knows and appreciate this.Where then is the problem,except that we are imagining all this and heaping misery on us. :)

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Sri Ravi, You turn this like bhakti jnana war,when actually,it is not,but my general" disagreement with Your presentation and view of bhakti.


Where did you find me doing this?Please quote my words and I will be in a position to clear this perception.

Namaskar.