Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 358232 times)

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #705 on: August 29, 2013, 03:30:36 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Thank You Very much for the links! I would very much like to read them all,especially autobiography of Mataji Krishnabai.

With love and prayers,

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #706 on: August 30, 2013, 06:30:36 PM »
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

"Existence-Knowledge-Bliss Absolute is one, and one only. But It is associated with
different limiting adjuncts on account of the different degrees of Its manifestation. That is
why one finds various forms of God. The devotee sings, 'O my Divine Mother, Thou art all
these!' Wherever you see actions, like creation, preservation, and dissolution, there is the
manifestation of Sakti. Water is water whether it is calm or full of waves and bubbles. The
Absolute alone is the Primordial Energy, which creates, preserves, and destroys. Thus it is
the same 'Captain', whether he remains inactive or performs his worship or pays a visit to
the Governor General. Only we designate him by different names at different times."
CAPTAIN: "Yes, sir, that is so."
MASTER: "I said those words to Keshab Sen."
CAPTAIN: "Keshab is not an orthodox Hindu. He adopts manners and customs according
to his own whim. He is a well-to-do gentleman and not a holy man."
MASTER (to the other devotees): "Captain forbids me to go to see Keshab."
CAPTAIN: "But, sir, you act as you will. What can I do?"
MASTER (sharply): "Why shouldn't I go to see Keshab? You feel at ease when you go to
the Governor General's house, and for money at that. Keshab thinks of God and chants His
name
. Isn't it you who are always saying that God Himself has become the universe and all
its living beings? Doesn't God dwell in Keshab also?"

With these words the Master left the room abruptly and went to the northeast verandah.
Captain and the other devotees remained, waiting for his return.

Visiting Saints is not for 'relaxation' or for 'Diversion of mind' but because association with them kindles the Presence of God within us.
We think that serving 'Governor General' is unavoidable and necessary, but seem to think that visiting Saints is an 'option' which we should judiciously exercise!

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #707 on: August 30, 2013, 09:43:22 PM »
Friends,
Our friend silentgreen had posted something very fundamental.I am posting it so that devotees can benefit:

"During my earlier days, I did an experiment. When I felt a little devotion for one God, I used to mentally switch to another God. The same devotion gets carried over to another God. It is like learning to swim. Once you learn swimming in one pond, you can swim in all the ponds. There may be a little preference for one pond, which is natural. Also once you have learnt swimming, whereever you see a pond, you will feel like swimming."

Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna

"At dusk incense was burnt in Sri Ramakrishna's room, and, as usual, he bowed before the pictures of gods and goddesses on the walls and chanted their names softly. From outside one could hear the murmuring of the Ganges and the music of the evening worship in the temples of Kali, Vishnu, and Siva. Through the door one could see the priest at a distance moving from one temple to another, a bell in his left hand and a light in his right, an attendant carrying the gong. The evening melody was in harmony with the spirit of the hour and place and with the innermost thoughts of the worshippers. For the time being the sordid
things of daily life were forgotten".

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #708 on: August 31, 2013, 01:34:28 PM »
Ripe Bhakti

Men invent means and methods of coming at God's love, they learn rules and set up devices to remind them of that love, and it seems like a world of trouble to bring oneself into the consciousness of God's presence. Yet it might be so simple. Is it not quicker and easier just to do our common business wholly for the love of him?"

The practice of the presence of God-by Brother Lawrence


Vaidhi-bhakti is like moving a fan to make a breeze. One needs the fan to make the breeze. Similarly, one practises japa, austerity, and fasting, in order to acquire love of God. But the fan is set aside when the southern breeze blows of itself.
Such actions as japa and austerity drop away when one spontaneously feels love and attachment for God. Who, indeed, will perform the ceremonies enjoined in the scriptures, when mad with love of God?
"Devotion to God may be said to be 'green' so long as it doesn't grow into love of God; but it becomes 'ripe' when it has grown into such love.
"A man with 'green' bhakti cannot assimilate spiritual talk and instruction; but one with 'ripe' bhakti can. The image that falls on a photographic plate covered with black film5 is retained. On the other hand, thousands of images may be reflected on a bare piece of glass, but not one of them is retained. As the object moves away, the glass becomes the same as it was before. One cannot assimilate spiritual instruction unless one has already developed love of God."

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna

Namaskar


Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #709 on: August 31, 2013, 06:23:57 PM »
Sri Ravi,

Human Gospel shared by Sri Ganesan is verily like what Sai Sat Charitra is for Shridi Sai Baba devotees. daily reading of this book is an excellent arghya - Atma-Arghyam

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #710 on: September 01, 2013, 01:58:56 PM »
Quote
Friends,
In all religions,we have this sort of fasts,partial or otherwise.we have Ramadan for muslims and lent for christians.There are two aspects -external observance of the Fast and inner attitude of Prayer or smarana that goes hand in hand with the fasting.
The Guru is one who emphaises the inner aspect.The Acharya is one who observes both the external and inner aspect.The Acharya can be copied but the Guru cannot be copied but only emulated by the seeker.
Namaskar.

The above quote is from Sri Ravi in the Ekadasi thread that I started .The highlighted quote points the essence of the sort of conflicts ( actually there is no conflict at all if viewed from the respective perspective ) between the teachings of Jnanai's like Bhagavan and the teachings of others Acharyas and Gurus like Kanchi Paramacharya , Sringeri Acharayas ,Sri Ramakrishna ,Swami Sivananda etc .
Bhagavan Ramana had made it quite clear ( in Guru Vachaka Kovai ) that spiritual rules and regulations are needed only for an aspirant who is not fully committed to the path of self enquiry and for those who have totally committed themselves to the path of self enquiry these rules and regulations are of not much importance .
Here is the verse from GVK 791 ( 68: The conduct of a Sadhaka )
Since the perscribed moral and social observances help one for a long time , they are fit to be accepted and observed .But when they obstruct the highest practice , the enquiry for true knowledge , give them up as useless .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #711 on: September 01, 2013, 02:57:35 PM »
atmavichar(Krishna),
The Interesting thing is that almost everyone thinks that he is fit for exclusive self-enquiry! :)
In fact in his nAn yaar,Sri Bhagavan has interwoven upasana and self enquiry inextricably.They cannot be seperated.It requires a very subtle and pure mind to perceive this and understand this aspect.In his talks on sri Bhagavan's 'nAn yAr',Sri Nochur Venkatraman beautifully brings this out and has exactly pointed what our friend Nararaj has pointed out.I will add my comments on this.I fully agree with what Nagaraj has quoted,although the excerpt from The Gospel on Ekadasi that I have posted seems to forestall it!

Quote
Since the perscribed moral and social observances help one for a long time , they are fit to be accepted and observed .But when they obstruct the highest practice , the enquiry for true knowledge , give them up as useless .

It is not that they give it up;it is just that the 'Practice' falls off and ceases by itself.This is not a matter of 'preference' or 'option'.It just ceases and drops off on its own.Just like how poonjaji's nonstop japa stopped one day.He did not stop it.

This is how Sri Ramakrishna puts it(Again,it is not out of any 'pet fancy' that I am saying this but I am saying it 'objectively' that I have not found a better book than The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna ,that it is one of the best guide to spiritual Living for ALL aspirants):

1."Without having realized God one cannot give up rituals altogether. How long should one practise the sandhya and other forms of ritualistic worship? As long as one does not shed tears of joy at the name of God and feel a thrill in one's body. You will know that your ritualistic worship has come to an end when your eyes become filled with tears as you repeat 'Om Rama'. Then you do not have to continue your sandhya or other rituals.
"When the fruit appears the blossom drops off. Love of God is the fruit, and rituals are the blossom. When the daughter-in-law of the house becomes pregnant, she cannot do much work. Her mother-in-law gradually lessens her duties in the house. When her time arrives she does practically nothing. And after the child is born her only work is to play with it.
She doesn't do any household duties at all. The sandhya merges in the Gayatri, the Gayatri in Om, and, Om in samadhi. It is like the sound of a bell: t-a-m. The yogi, by following in the trail of the sound Om, gradually merges himself in the Supreme Brahman. His sandhya and other ritualistic duties disappear in samadhi. Thus the duties of the jnani come to an end."

2."When, hearing the name of Hari or Rama once, you shed tears and your hair stands on end, then you may know for certain that you do not have to perform
such devotions as the sandhya any more. Then only will you have a right to renounce rituals; or rather, rituals will drop away of themselves. Then it will be enough if you repeat only the name of Rama or Hari, or even simply Om." Continuing, he said, "The sandhya merges in the Gayatri, and the Gayatri merges in Om."

If anyone has reached this sort of a state,he will not be arguing whether such practices are necessary or not,or whether these are a matter of individual preference or not. :)
He or she may just have the courage to say that although these practices have a definite validity,he or she has not been following these things more out of expediency than otherwise.
Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #712 on: September 01, 2013, 03:26:44 PM »
Quote from Sri Ravi,

Quote
It is not that they give it up;it is just that the 'Practice' falls off and ceases by itself.This is not a matter of 'preference' or 'option'.It just ceases and drops off on its own.Just like how poonjaji's nonstop japa stopped one day.He did not stop it.

That is the whole point of everything! I dont know if You read all which is said,Sir,but no one ever,at any point said that those practices should or are given up just as a matter of convinience. I said few times,if one is came to some depth he will realise its absurdity. I dont know what is not clear there,and why that simple thing need to be used in such a way and turned up side down.

Quote
The Interesting thing is that almost everyone thinks that he is fit for exclusive self-enquiry! :)

This is very rude and malicious to say! Bhagavan always empatised that Self enquiry is not hard,that it is most natural,and that all can doing it. These are golden words of hope and assurance from our Guru,and His basic teaching.

Quote
If anyone has reached this sort of a state,he will not be arguing whether such practices are necessary or not,or whether these are a matter of individual preference or not.

 That same applies to You,dear Sri Ravi.

I dont understand why so much worry if someone is reached such state,and where,just where anyone said that,or from where You could made such fact??? This looks like one is talking about grandma and other about frogs. What a state? Can anyone have just simple opinion?

With love and prayers,

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #713 on: September 01, 2013, 03:40:51 PM »
Jewell,
I would request you to calmly go over what is posted.One may perhaps benefit if one finds anything of any value.Or else,one will jus pass it by.

you are saying this:

Quote
I said few times,if one is came to some depth he will realise its absurdity. I dont know what is not clear there,and why that simple thing need to be used in such a way and turned up side down.

This is not correct and this is the purpose of that excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna.It is not the absurdity(see how the mind has got it all wrong!) but the Utility of such a Practice that ceases.

I have nothing to respond to your other comments.

Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #714 on: September 01, 2013, 04:00:28 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Very well. I said what i wanted to say,and that is it.


With love and prayers,

Hari

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #715 on: September 01, 2013, 04:04:41 PM »
My humble opinion about rituals and observances : they for me have a few purposes: 1. to train our will 2. to fight our egoistic desires 3. to show to God that He is more important than our desires and wants. So it is not correct to say that they are not needed.

About Self-enquiry: not everyone is fit for it. Even Bhagavan pointed this out!
Quote
Question: Can this path of enquiry be followed by all aspirants?
Bhagavan: This is suitable only for ripe souls. The rest should follow different methods according to the state of their minds.
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Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #716 on: September 01, 2013, 04:05:46 PM »
Jewell,

Quote
Very well. I said what i wanted to say,and that is it

This is all the Rough Notebook-Open Forum Thread is for. :)

Tat Tvam Asi-Om tat Sat.

Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #717 on: September 01, 2013, 04:19:02 PM »
My humble opinion about rituals and observances : they for me have a few purposes: 1. to train our will 2. to fight our egoistic desires 3. to show to God that He is more important than our desires and wants. So it is not correct to say that they are not needed.

About Self-enquiry: not everyone is fit for it. Even Bhagavan pointed this out!
Quote
Question: Can this path of enquiry be followed by all aspirants?
Bhagavan: This is suitable only for ripe souls. The rest should follow different methods according to the state of their minds.

Dear Hari,

Bhagavan also said that Self enquiry is for everyone,many times,but one dont quotes such thing. Training will is not what You eat,but what You do.

This comes on this what You previously said,all do what suits them most.

With love and prayers,

Hari

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #718 on: September 01, 2013, 04:31:37 PM »
Dear Jewell,
Self-enquiry cannot be for everyone because of the different temperaments and the state of the mind of the aspirants. There is no universal remedy for all diseases, especially for samsara.

Quote
Training will is not what You eat,but what You do.
It is not about to maintain your stomach empty. It is about fighting the desire to eat. Why? The same reason why we practice Self-eqnuiry and other methods - to fight the ego. I don't accept or reject Ekadashi. It is not my business to do it - God and His Saints have talked enough about this matter. I just share my thoughts.

I wish you all the best,
Hari
« Last Edit: September 01, 2013, 04:34:38 PM by Hari »
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Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #719 on: September 01, 2013, 04:47:00 PM »
Dear Hari,

There Is only one remedy for samsara,and that is to drop ego and personality. But that was not point anyway.

I share my thoughts also.

My thinking that we are much more into such things,and in the same time dont bother to be kind,or good towards people,or such things. Then that fasting is not fasting for me. I see so many people around me which fast,but that is the only thing which they do which have to do something with religion. They hurt,and fast. That is hypocrisy.

But that also was not the point,from beginning,to the very end...

With love and prayers,