Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 343220 times)

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #660 on: August 11, 2013, 05:21:34 PM »
Thanks Sri Ravi, i will be following the posts from mobile for some days, as i will be out of town and therefore will be inactive.

:)
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #661 on: August 11, 2013, 05:42:00 PM »
Nagaraj,
Wishing you blissful satsangh wherever you be.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #662 on: August 11, 2013, 05:50:22 PM »
Friends,
I wish to post on the significance of avatara.What does this mean to the Sadhakas?What opportunity it presents to the seekers?
These will form the series of posts that I intend making in this thread.In the Gita Lord Sri Krishna says :

Paritranaya sadhunam vinashaya cha dushkritam.
Dharma sansthapanarthaya sambhavami yuge yuge-Gita Chapter 4 verse 8

"For the up-liftment of the good and virtuous,For the destruction of evil,For the re-establishment of Dharma,I come  in every age"

We will explore the significance of this not with our intellect but with devotion.

Namaskar.

Wonder how I get an unintended smiley after keying in 8 and ) in close proximity! I had keyed Gita -(4:8 and closed the Bracket) to get (4:8) I have edited this above.

« Last Edit: August 11, 2013, 10:45:22 PM by Ravi.N »

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #663 on: August 11, 2013, 07:28:41 PM »
Thanks so much sri ravi.  :) frm mobile.
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #664 on: August 12, 2013, 08:16:29 AM »
Friends,
In discussing this topic on Divine incarnations,we will steer clear off a few questions/dispositions:
1.Who is Greater-jnani or avatar?
2.Whether X or Y is an avatar and if so what is the proof?

The objective of our discussion will be not to get into arguements but to benefit from the devotee's perspective on the significance of what Lord Sri Krishna said in that verse from the Gita that I have posted in my previous post in this thread.

Why is this subject dear to a devotee?Why spend our time discussing this topic?What is the relevance for the devotee?

It is said that if we take a single step towards God,God takes 10 steps towards us.The initiative rests with us to approach God and Realize him.

In the case of an Avatar,the initiative comes from God;He takes the Giant Stride as it were in coming down to where we are,limiting himself of his own volition and subjecting himself to all-disease, grief, hunger, thirst, and all such things, like ordinary mortals;Yet showing us the way to uplift ourselves and rise above the Limitations while living in this world through Dharmic Living,through Vairagya and Viveka,Bhakti and Jnana.

It is God who seeks the jiva as it were to free it from its limitations.This is a Huge opportunity for the Jiva to Recognize and orient itself and organize its life according to the life and teachings of the incarnations Like Lord Sri Rama,Sri Krishna ,Lord Jesus ,The Christ,etc.

I will be using excerpts from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna that would help us in understanding this perspective.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Divine Incarnation-1
« Reply #665 on: August 12, 2013, 09:11:52 AM »
Divine Incarnation-1

The Absolute plays in many ways: as Isvara, as the gods, as man, and as the universe. The Incarnation is the play of the Absolute as man.
Do you know how the Absolute plays as man? It is like the rushing down of water from a big roof through a pipe; the power of Satchidananda-nay, Satchidananda Itself-descends through the conduit of a human form as water descends through the pipe
. Only twelve sages, Bharadvaja and the others, recognized Rama as an Incarnation of God. Not everyone can recognize an Incarnation.
"It is God alone who incarnates Himself as man to teach people the ways of love and knowledge. Well, what do you think of me?
"Once my father went to Gaya. There Raghuvir said to him in a dream, 'I shall be born as your son.' Thereupon my father said to Him: 'O Lord, I am a poor brahmin. How shall I be able to serve You?' 'Don't worry about it', Raghuvir replied. 'It will be taken care of.'
"My sister, Hriday's mother, used to worship my feet with flowers and sandal-paste. One day I placed my foot on her head and said to her, 'You will die in Benares.'
"Once Mathur Babu said to me: 'Father, there is nothing inside you but God. Your body is like an empty shell. It may look from outside like a pumpkin, but inside there is nothingneither flesh nor seed. Once I saw you as someone moving with a veil on.'

God, incarnating Himself as man, behave exactly like a man. That is why it is difficult to recognize an Incarnation. When God becomes man, He is exactly like man. He has the same hunger, thirst, disease, grief, and sometimes even fear. Rama was stricken with grief for Sita. Krishna carried on His head the shoes and wooden stool of His father Nanda.
In the theatre, when an actor comes on the stage in the role of a holy man, he behaves like one, and not like the actor who is taking the part of the king. He plays his own role.
Once an impersonator dressed himself as a world-renouncing monk. Pleased with the correctness of his disguise, some rich people offered him a rupee. He did not accept the money but went away shaking his head. Afterwards he removed his disguise and appeared in his usual dress. Then he said to the rich people, 'Please give me the rupee.' They replied: 'Why, you went away refusing our present. Why do you ask for it now?' The man said: 'But then I was in the role of a holy man. I could not accept money.' Likewise, when God becomes man He behaves exactly like a man.

God can be directly perceived in a man with a tangible form. Seeing an Incarnation of God is the same as seeing God Himself. God is born on earth as man in every age.

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna

Hari

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #666 on: August 12, 2013, 03:15:09 PM »
Excellent explanation! Thank you, Sri Ravi!
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Ravi.N

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Re: Divine Incarnation-2
« Reply #667 on: August 13, 2013, 08:19:35 AM »
Divine Incarnation-2

Lord Sri Krishna in the Bhagavad-gita ,chapter 4 verse 6 says:
ajo 'pi sann avyayatma bhutanam isvaro 'pi san
prakritim svam adhishthaya sambhavamy atma-mayaya


"Though I am unborn,imperishable and the Lord of beings,yet subjugating My Prakriti,I come into being by My own Maya" (Translation by Swami Chidbhavananda)

Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna that throws light on the above verse from the Gita:

The all-powerful maya
"Rama said to Narada : 'I am very much pleased with your prayer. Ask a boon of Me.' Narada replied, 'O Rama, may I have pure devotion to Your Lotus Feet, and may I not be deluded by Your world-bewitching maya!' Rama said, 'Be it so: ask for something else.' Narada replied, 'No, Rama, I do not want any other boon.'

"Everyone is under the spell of this world-bewitching maya. When God assumes a human body, He too comes under the spell. Rama wandered about weeping for Sita. 'Brahman weeps entangled in the snare of the five elements.' But you must remember this: God, by His mere will, can liberate Himself from this snare."
BHAVANATH: "The guard of a railway train shuts himself of his own will in a carriage; but he can get out whenever he wants to.'
MASTER: 'The Isvarakotis-Divine Incarnations, for instance-can liberate themselves whenever they want to; but the jivakotis cannot. Jivas are imprisoned by 'woman and gold'.When the doors and windows of a room are fastened with screws, how can a man get out?"
BHAVANATH (smiling): "Ordinary men are like the third-class passengers on a railway train. When the doors of their compartments are locked, they have no way to get out."
GIRISH: "If a man is so strongly tied hand and foot, then what is his way?"
MASTER: "He has nothing to fear if God Himself, as the guru cuts the chain of maya."

continued...

Ravi.N

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Re: Divine Incarnation-3
« Reply #668 on: August 13, 2013, 08:59:43 AM »
Divine Incarnation-3


Master:"One cannot see God unless maya steps aside from the door. Rama, Lakshmana, and Sita were walking together. Rama was in front, Sita walked in the middle, and Lakshmana followed them. But Lakshmana could not see Rama because Sita was between them. In like manner, man cannot see God because maya is between them. (To Mani Mallick) But maya steps aside from the door when God shows His grace to the devotee. When the visitor stands before the door, the door-keeper says to the master, 'Sir, command us, and we shall let him pass.'

"There are two schools of thought: the Vedanta and the Purana. According to the Vedanta this world is a 'framework of illusion', that is to say, it is all illusory, like a dream. But according to the Purana, the books of devotion, God Himself has become the twenty-four cosmic principles. Worship God both within and without.
"As long as God keeps the awareness of 'I' in us, so long do sense-objects exist; and we cannot very well speak of the world as a dream. There is fire in the hearth; therefore the rice and pulse and potatoes and the other vegetables jump about in the pot. They jump about as if to say: 'We are here! We are jumping!' This body is the pot. The mind and intelligence are the water. The objects of the senses are the rice, potatoes, and other vegetables. The 'I-consciousness' identified with the senses says, 'I am jumping about.' And Satchidananda is the fire.
"Hence the Bhakti scriptures describe this very world as a 'mansion of mirth'. Ramprasad sang in one of his songs, 'This world is a framework of illusion.' Another devotee gave the reply, 'This very world is a mansion of mirth.' As the saying goes, 'The devotee of Kali, free while living, is full of Eternal Bliss.'
The bhakta sees that He who is God has also become maya. Again, He Himself has become the universe and all its living beings. The bhakta sees God, maya, the universe, and the living beings as one. Some devotees see everything as Rama: it is Rama alone who has become everything. Some see everything as Radha and
Krishna. To them it is Krishna alone who has become the twenty-four cosmic principles. It is like seeing everything green through green glasses.
"But the Bhakti scriptures admit that the manifestations of Power are different in different beings. It is Rama who has become everything, no doubt; but He manifests Himself more in some than in others. There is one kind of manifestation of Rama in the Incarnation of God, and another in men. Even the Incarnations are conscious of the body. Embodiment is due to maya. Rama wept for Sita. But the Incarnation of God puts a bondage over His eyes by His own will, like children playing blindman's buff. The children stop playing when their mother calls them. It is quite different, however, with the ordinary man. The cloth his eyes are bandaged with is fastened to his back with screws, as it were. There are eight fetters. Shame, hatred, fear, caste, lineage, good conduct, grief, and secretiveness-these are the eight fetters. And they cannot be unfastened without the help of a guru.

continued...

Ravi.N

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Re: Divine Incarnation-4
« Reply #669 on: August 15, 2013, 11:11:30 AM »
Divine Incarnation-4
"According to the Vedanta, there is no Incarnation of God. The Vedantists say that Rama and Krishna are but two waves in the Ocean of Satchidananda.
Those who reason and speculate following the process of 'Neti, neti' do not accept the Incarnation of God.All that I have just said belongs to the realm of reasoning. Brahman alone is real and the world illusory-that is reasoning. And everything but Brahman is like a dream. But this is an extremely difficult path. To one who follows it even the divine play in the world becomes like a dream and appears unreal; his 'I' also vanishes. The followers of this path do not accept the Divine Incarnation
. It is a very difficult path.
The lovers of God should not hear much of such reasoning.That is why God incarnates Himself as man and teaches people the path of devotion. He exhorts people to cultivate self-surrender to God. Following the path of devotion, one realizes everything through His grace both Knowledge and Supreme Wisdom.
"God sports in this world. He is under the control of His devotee. 'Syama, the Divine Mother, is Herself tied by the cord of the love of Her devotee.'
"Sometimes God becomes the magnet and the devotee the needle, and sometimes the devotee becomes the magnet and God the needle. The devotee attracts God to him. God is the Beloved of His devotee and is under his control.
"According to one school, the gopis of Vrindavan, like Yasoda, had believed in the formless God in their previous births; but they did not derive any satisfaction from this
belief. That is why later on they enjoyed so much bliss in the company of Sri Krishna in the Vrindavan episode of His life. One day Krishna said to the gopis: 'Come along. I shall show you the Abode of the Eternal. Let us go to the Jamuna for a bath.' As they dived into the water of the river, they at once saw Goloka. Next they saw the Indivisible Light. Thereupon Yasoda exclaimed: 'O Krishna, we don't care for these things any more. We would like to see You in Your human form. I want to take You in my arms and feed You.'
"So the greatest manifestation of God is through His Incarnations. The devotee should worship and serve an Incarnation of God as long as He lives in a human body. 'At the break of day He disappears into the secret chamber of His House.'

continued...

Ravi.N

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Re: Divine Incarnation-5
« Reply #670 on: August 15, 2013, 11:25:49 AM »
Divine Incarnation-5
After school-hours M. returned to Balaram's house and found the Master sitting in the drawing-room, surrounded by his devotees and disciples. Among them were Girish, Suresh,Balaram, Latu, and Chunilal. The Master's face was beaming with a sweet smile, which was reflected in the happy faces of those in the room. M. was asked to take a seat by the Master's side.
MASTER (to Girish): "You had better argue this point with Narendra and see what he has to say."
GIRISH: "Narendra says that God is infinite; we cannot even so much as say that the things or persons we perceive are parts of God. How can Infinity have parts? It cannot."
Mystery of Divine Incarnation
MASTER: "However great and infinite God may be, His Essence can and does manifest itself through man by His mere will. God's Incarnation as a man cannot be explained by analogy. One must feel it for oneself and realize it by direct perception. An analogy can give us only a little glimpse. By touching the horns, legs, or tail of a cow, we in fact touch the cow herself; but for us the essential thing about a cow is her milk, which comes through the udder. The Divine Incarnation is like the udder.God incarnates Himself as man from time to time in order to teach people devotion and divine love."
GIRISH: "Narendra says: 'Is it ever possible to know all of God? He is infinite.
' "
MASTER (to Girish): "Who can comprehend everything about God? It is not given to man to know any aspect of God, great or small. And what need is there to know everything about God? It is enough if we only realize Him. And we see God Himself if we but see His Incarnation. Suppose a person goes to the Ganges and touches its water. He will then say, 'Yes, I have seen and touched the Ganges.' To say this it is not necessary for him to touch the whole length of the river from Hardwar to Gangasagar. (Laughter.)
"If I touch your feet, surely that is the same as touching you. (Laughter.) If a person goes to the ocean and touches but a little of its water, he has surely touched the ocean itself. Fire, as an element, exists in all things, but in wood it is present to a greater degree."
GIRISH (smiling): "I am looking for fire. Naturally I want to go to a place where I can get it."
Seek God in man
MASTER (smiling): "Yes, fire, as an element, is present more in wood than in any other object. If you seek God, then seek Him in man; He manifests Himself more in man than in any other thing. If you see a man endowed with ecstatic love, overflowing with prema, mad after God, intoxicated with His love, then know for certain that God has incarnated Himself through that man.
(To M.) "There is no doubt that God exists in all things; but the manifestations of His Power are different in different beings. The greatest manifestation of His Power is through an Incarnation. Again, in some Incarnation there is a complete manifestation of God's Power. It is the Sakti, the Power of God, that is born as an Incarnation."
GIRISH: "Narendra says that God is beyond our words and thought."
God known to the pure mind
MASTER: "That is not altogether true. He is, no doubt, unknowable by this ordinary mind, but He can indeed be known by the pure mind. The mind and intellect become pure the moment they are free from attachment to 'woman and gold'. The pure mind and pure intellect are one and the same. God is known by the pure mind. Didn't the sages and seers of olden times see God? They realized the All-pervading Consciousness by means of their inner consciousness."



Ravi.N

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Re: Divine Incarnation-6
« Reply #671 on: August 17, 2013, 07:00:56 AM »
Divine Incarnation-6
Difference between ordinary men and Incarnations
"There are different planes of consciousness: the gross, the subtle, the causal, and the Great Cause. Entering the Mahakarana, the Great Cause, one becomes silent; one cannot utter a word.
"But an Isvarakoti, after attaining the Great Cause, can come down again to the lower planes. Incarnations of God, and others like them, belong to the class of the Isvarakotis.
They climb up, and they can also come down. They climb to the roof, and they can come down again by the stairs and move about on a lower floor. It is a case of negation and affirmation. There is, for instance, the seven-storey palace of a king. Strangers have access only to the lower apartments; but the prince, who knows the palace to be his own, can move up and down from floor to floor. There is a kind of rocket that throws out sparks in one pattern and then seems to go out. After a moment it makes another pattern, and then still another. There is no end to the patterns it can make. But there is another kind of rocket that, when it is lighted, makes only a dull sound, throws out a few sparks, and then goes out altogether. Like this second kind, an ordinary jiva, after much spiritual effort, can go to a
higher plane; but he cannot come down to tell others his experiences. After much effort he may go into samadhi; but he cannot climb down from that state or tell others what he has seen there
.
Nature of the ever-perfect
"There is a class of devotees, the nityasiddhas, the ever-perfect. From their very birth they seek God. They do not enjoy anything of the world.
Illustration of homa bird
The Vedas speak of the homa bird. It lives very high in the sky. There the mother bird lays her egg. She lives so high that the egg falls for many days. While falling it is hatched. The chick continues to fall. That also goes on for many days. In the mean time the chick develops eyes. Coming near the earth, it becomes conscious of the world. It realizes it will meet certain death if it hits the ground. Then it gives a shrill cry and shoots up toward its mother. The earth means death, and it frightens the young bird; it then seeks its mother. She dwells high up in the sky, and the young bird shoots straight up in that direction. It doesn't
look anywhere else.
Those who are born as the companions of an Incarnation of God are eternally perfect. For some of them that birth is the last.

(To Vijay) "You have both-yoga and bhoga. King Janaka also had yoga and bhoga. Therefore he is called a rajarshi, both king and seer. Narada was a devarshi, and Sukadeva a brahmarshi. Yes, Sukadeva was a brahmarshi. He was not a mere jnani; he was the very embodiment of Jnana, Divine Knowledge. Whom do I call a jnani? A man who has attained Knowledge and has done so after much effort. Sukadeva was the very image of Knowledge, in other words, a form of concentrated Knowledge. He attained Knowledge spontaneously, without any labour."

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re:Divine Incarnation-7
« Reply #672 on: August 17, 2013, 07:12:50 AM »
Divine Incarnation-7

Special traits of a Divine Incarnation
MASTER: "An Incarnation of God or one born with some of the characteristics of an Incarnation is called an Isvarakoti. An ordinary man is called a jiva or jivakoti. By dint of sadhana a jivakoti can realize God; but after samadhi he cannot come back to the plane of relative consciousness.
"The Isvarakoti is like the king's son. He has the keys to all the rooms of the seven-storey palace; he can climb to all the seven floors and come down at will. A jivakoti is like a petty officer. He can enter some of the rooms of the palace; that is his limit.
"Janaka was a jnani. He attained Knowledge by means of his sadhana. But Sukadeva was Knowledge itself."
GIRISH: "Ah!"
Narada and Sukadeva
MASTER: "Sukadeva did not attain Knowledge through sadhana. Like Sukadeva, Narada also had the Knowledge of Brahman. But he retained bhakti in order to teach people. Prahlada sometimes assumed the attitude of 'I am He', sometimes that of a servant of God, and sometimes that of His child. Hanuman also was like that.
"All may wish for such a lofty state, but all cannot attain it. Some bamboos are hollower than others; some are more solid inside."

continued...

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #673 on: August 19, 2013, 01:18:52 PM »
Quote from Sri Ravi,
Quote
Anilbhai,today at the Sri Ramakrishna mutt Mylapore,Chennai I happened to meet one who has seen Sri Bhagavan in person.It was Sri V Ganesan!
He attended the evening ArAtrikam(vespers)to Sri Ramakrishna at the New temple and left as soon as it was over.The Swamiji who conducts the vespers is a rare mahatma and is always a treat to watch.I warmly recommend that whosoever gets an opportunity to be in chennai on a sunday evening may take advantage and visit the evening ArAtrikam and Bhajans(18:30 hrs -20:00 hrs).
The Bhajans are wonderful and the repertoire is quite vast-Songs of Mira,kabir,Tulasidas,Purandara dasa,Ramprasad,Girish Gosh,Mahakavi Bharathi,Shuddhananda Bharati,Sri Sankaracharya,Saint Appar,Saint Ramalinga Swamigal,.....and Sri Akshara Mana Maalai(first ten verses)of Sri Bhagavan besides Namavalis.The songs on Sri Ramakrishna and The Holy Mother Sri Sarada Devi are truly excellent.
On Ekadasi days there will be chanting of Ramnam and Shuddha Brahma Paratpara ram,Hanuman Chalisa,etc.
The atmosphere in the Temple Hall is truly vibrant and suffused with spiritual power.
Warmly recommended.
Namaskar.

Dear Sri Ravi,

I just wanted to say how lucky You are,and how wonderful it is that You have met all those Great Souls! It is indeed very rare opportunity. Also,to be able to visit all the places. I can only imagine the feelings they evoke.

I think i have read here,in this forum,that You have met Sri Anandamayi Ma also,and many others,if i remember well. And how beautiful is that!

With love and prayers,

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #674 on: August 20, 2013, 07:14:08 AM »
Jewell,
It is indeed a Great Blessing to have Darshan of Mahatmas.Yes,I had darshan of ma Anandamoyi,I think towrds the end of 1981 or beginning of 1982.It was in a place called Kankal,near Haridwar where her ashram is.She was very ill at that time and I could only see her lying on  bed through a Grill(vertical bars)of a window of a house ,on the  opposite side of the road to where her samadhi is presently there in the ashram complex.

Coming to the Sri Ramakrishna Mutt,Chennai-Indeed I have witnessed Arati at the other Sri Ramakrishna Mutts as well-Delhi,Jayarambati(the birth place of our Holy mother Sri Sarada Devi)-a very beautiful one ,Dehradun,Hyderabad.Yet,I have alluded to the Chennai Mutt on account of the Mahatma who does the Vespers everyday evening.He simply raises the art of worship to the meditative level-the way he walks in ,the way he sits,the way he gets up with the lamp and waves it as if like a fish swimming in the ocean of Satchidananda!Every movement is effortless and with a flowing grace that can outrival the poise of the best of classical dancers.Just what it was ,we could perceive when he was away for a period of nearly 2 months and the other swamijis who performed in his absence,although efficient and were 'performing' worship;this swamiji does not 'perform',he simply worships.His attention to detail is absolutely wonderful,the way he picks up a flower among the hundreds already placed,and moves it to just the right place!Finally after waving the Chamara and ending the Arati,the way he bows and prostrates before the Guru is again a treat-No abrupt movements anywhere,just a fluid change of position,all done spontaneously and with no consciousness of all the rest of the people assembled-as if it is only the Guru who is there to be served!Finally how he casts a look of goodbye and walks out with measured steps.

I have recommended this to persons who happen to visit Chennai and if they do find the time on sunday evening,they may just give this a try.There have been persons who are just living at Mylapore(where the mutt is) and yet have not attended this.There have been others who have come from afar and attended!So,it is not as if this can be scheduled in one's calendar and even if one happens to visit,one should be 'mentally present' and sensitive to it.It is perhaps one's prArabda as well!
Thanks very much.
Namaskar.