Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 315047 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #615 on: July 14, 2013, 10:06:21 PM »
Latha,
Yes indeed the availability of these talks for downloading is a real treasure.The sumukam blog has discourses by others as well.The ones by Suki sivam are good as well,and quite down to earth and easily listenable and enjoyable by the layman and devotees alike.
The advantage in buying the CDs is that they are quite inexpensive and the amount goes as an offering to Sri Nochur(as I am given to understand by the organizers).
Thanks very much.
Namaskar.

latha

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #616 on: July 15, 2013, 09:56:55 PM »
Dear Raviji,

I am sorry, my intention was not to take away donations from Sri Nochurji or anyone else. These teachings are literally priceless and only Bhagavan's blessings are making them accessible to us. I was not aware the CDs were available for sale. At the very least, we have to make donations to individuals or organizations whose material we access online. Thank you for informing me about the CDs.

Om Namo Bhagavate Sri Ramanaya

Child of Arunachala

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #617 on: July 16, 2013, 01:24:47 AM »
Namaste,

Was anyone from this forum at the ashram during navaratri a few years ago when a group sang the Om Namah Sivaya mantra in different ragas. It was unbelievably sweet and powerful. It felt like Arunachala himself must have had to get up from the mountain and sit and enjoy the chanting in the Ramanasramam hall.   I dont remember the name of the group or if they have brought it out as a CD. Would any one here know?

Child of Arunachala

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #618 on: July 16, 2013, 02:01:14 AM »
Latha,
Yes,I do understand.I do realize that the CDs may not be freely available abroad.Even in India they are not.I agree with you totally on the offering by way of donations.
Thanks very much.
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #619 on: July 16, 2013, 05:38:11 AM »
Sri Ravi lata ji

I am told the proceedings from the sale of books and these cd's are donated to ramanasramam.

From mob.

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #620 on: July 16, 2013, 09:10:09 AM »
Nagaraj,
Yes,I have seen these CDs sold in Sri Ramanasramam.
Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #621 on: July 17, 2013, 02:53:41 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

I must say that i am amazed with Your version of The Song of the Poppadum. It is very beautiful,more gently and delicate,more lyrical in a way. I looked on old translation like some sort of humorous,sweet way to present the Truth. But Your version is with far more meaning and beauty.

Thank You Very much,dear Sri Ravi! I love this song. And many thanks to  Sri Nagaraj who put all the pictures! mmmm it looks sooo tasty!  :) And now we have a recepie,and knowledge to prepare delicious appalams,and to understand this beautiful song of Bhagavan.

Thank You!

With love and prayers,

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #622 on: July 19, 2013, 10:06:47 AM »
Jewell,
Thanks very much for your kind words.The 'Translation' of appalam pattu is still work in progress.I am not satisfied with this-and will be attempting the necessary refinement by and by.
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #623 on: July 21, 2013, 05:40:50 PM »
Sri Ravi,

I have updated the pestle and mortar, do let me know if they are ok. Bhagavan willing may be in coming days will further make some updates to better the post.

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #624 on: July 22, 2013, 06:30:46 AM »
Nagaraj,
Thanks very much for the illustrations.They have come out quite nicely and your writeup is wonderful as well.If you can,please add the photographs of Mother Alagamma and Sri Bhagavan in the Beginning and the pictures of matrubhuteswar temple and the samadhi hall of sri Bhagavan in the end.
Namaskar.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 06:33:25 AM by Ravi.N »

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #625 on: July 22, 2013, 09:22:59 AM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

What a wonderful post You have posted in the topic of Sri Silentgreen! It resonates so deeply with me now.

Quote
    But though you reason all your life, unless you are established in samadhi, you cannot go beyond the jurisdiction of Sakti. Even when you say, 'I am meditating', or 'I am contemplating', still you are moving in the realm of Sakti, within Its power

This is so true, so true! We can reason how much we want, but in the end, all that we reasoned out, is really nothing. We come to see those are just words and we are still in the realm of Shakti. I found that only heart matters, this feeling we have toward God. Truly, that's the only thing which keep me safe. We tend to see everything in black and white terms. This path of knowledge too. And we tend to go to the very edge of it, when truly, truth is something completely not understandable by intelect. And there is so much complexity in it, colofulness, that's there is no end in discovering this wonders of God.

Indeed, Shakti and Brahman are verily the same. All is Him only, and there is nothing appart from Him. And how can little intelect ever comprehend His Glorious wonders. I came to see that all I have learned doasnt mean anything in the end. Only this love means, and only love can save us from this little ego, to make it go away. And that truly happens only when we submit it to God or Guru, or realise it was always already submitted. I even dare not to call it the Self anymore, coz it makes this ego grow bigger.
I just read last night Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna, and it was truly overwhelming. Thats why I am so delighted to see Your post.

Also, I wish to thank You from the depth of my heart for all Your posts, and Your very presence here!

Thank You, dear Sri Ravi!!!

With all love and prayers,

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #626 on: July 23, 2013, 04:31:45 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi,

Though I do not know Tamil, still I can sense that your translation of the Appalam Song must be closer to the Original, and is more compact and lyrical than any I have seen so far. You have fashioned and brought about a welcome and exhilarating change in the Song’s Refrain itself. Yes, “Try your hand fashioning appalam-
That you may eat and your desire fulfill.”
is certainly much better than “Try and make some poppadums. Eat them and your longing satisfy.” Implication and import of your translation of the Song’s Refrain are certainly much deeper and fulfilling, to say the least. However, I wish to seek a few clarifications regarding the Original Composition and its translations as done by you and Prof. Sri K. Swaminathan.
In the first stanza, you have translated:   
“The Tatva unspokenly spoken by the Satguru –
Who is Truth Consciousness Bliss.”,
whereas Prof. Sri Swaminathan has translated the same as “Heed the word, unique, unspoken, Taught by the teacher true who teaches, the truth of Being-Awareness-Bliss. “
In Prof. Swaminathan’s translation, it is the Guru who teaches the truth of Being-Awareness-Bliss, whereas in your translation It is Satguru who is Truth consciousness Bliss. I wish to know which one is more accurate literally according to the Original?

In the second stanza, the use of the terms in your translation, such as, ‘five kosha field’ and ‘Jnana-vichara quern of who am I?’ in place of ‘fivefold body-field’ and ‘wisdom-quest of who am I?’ is well considered and looks more appropriate. Your translation of the third Stanza, in my view, is more or less the same except that Prof. Sri Swaminathan has employed English words for the terms used in this Stanza.

Dear Sri Ravi, in general your translation of the Appalam Song, in my view, is more an intuition’s work than that of the intellect, and it is obvious particularly when one goes through your translation of the fifth and last stanza of the Song.   

Dear sir, but it has been the fourth stanza of the Song which provided the necessary guidance suited to my then stage of maturity and temperament initially when I started to tread the Path of Atam-Vichara. In your translation of this stanza, ‘Relentlessly pound (the dough) as ‘I’, ‘I’ unwaveringly’ is, in my view, certainly much better than Prof. Sri Swaminathan’s translation ‘Pound it hard with strokes of ‘I’, ‘I’. IN THIS, YOUR TRANSLATION SEEMS TO RETAIN THE SPIRIT OF THE ATMA-VICHARA AS TAUGHT BY SRI BHAGWAN, WHEREAS SRI SWAMINATHAN’S TRANSLATION SOUNDS A BIT HUMOROUS, WHICH IS NOT QUITE IN KEEPING WITH THE EARNEST SPIRIT OF ENQUIRY. However, Sri Swaminathan in his translation of the fourth stanza of the Song, has composed ‘Then flatten it with the rolling pin of stillness on the level slab (of Being)’. In your translation ‘level slab of Being’ seems to me to be missing. If so, why?


Dear Sri Ravi, there is no doubt that your translation is an improvement over the previous ones by several notches and all those devotees of Sri Bhagwan who do not know Tamil would remain ever grateful to you. I hope you would not stop at this and continue the good work and take this translation closer and closer to the Original, in letter and spirit. I know what the Appalam Song means to a devotee of Sri Bhagwan who lives far way from Tiruvannamalai.   

The Appalam Song of Sri Bhagwan, as I said above, shaped and gave a permanent orientation to my sadhana of the Atma-vichara in the beginning. Whenever I went astray, or when I felt depressed that I was not making progress, or when I felt dismay and sadness, I always remembered following lines of the Song:
“In the heart-mortar place the dough,
And with mind-psetle inward turned,
Pound it hard with strokes of ‘I’, ‘I’….
WORK AWAY, UNTIRING, STEADY, CHEERFUL.”

Dear Sri Ravi, the Appalam Song taught me to practice CONTINUOUSLY, UNTIRINGLY AND CHEERFULLY. IT TAUGHT THAT THE ATMA-VICHARA EA IS A SADHANA WHICH ONE MUST PURSUE WITH ENDLESS STRIVING. It taught that the joy and bliss must be experienced in the journey to Home itself and not only after attainment of the Goal.


Thanks very much, sir. I hope I have not said anything which may offend you or anyone, even in the least.
Pranam,
  Anil

   


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #627 on: July 23, 2013, 08:29:17 PM »
Jewell,
Thanks very much for your kind words.I am indeed delighted to know that you are reading The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna and cherishing the wonderful sayings of the Master.you are truly blessed to be drawn to the words of the Great ones and be inspired by them.

The Great Sage Tirumoolar says:
தெளிவு குருவின் திருமேனி காண்டல்
தெளிவு குருவின் திருநாமஞ் செப்பல்
தெளிவு குருவின் திருவார்த்தை கேட்டல்
தெளிவு குருவுரு சிந்தித்தல் தானே.

theLivu guruvin thirumEni kANDal
theLivu guruvin thirunAmam ceppal
theLivu guruvin thiruvArththai kETTal
theLivu guruvuru cinthiththal thAnE.

Clarity is seeing the holy Body of guru;
Clarity is saying the holy Name of guru;
Clarity is listening to the holy Words of guru;
Clarity is contemplating on the holy Form of guru.

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna transports us to the Presence of The Guru,as we listen to his words of nectar and participate in the satsangh.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #628 on: July 23, 2013, 09:49:26 PM »
Anil,
Thanks for sharing how the appalam pattu has always inspired you to stick to atma vichara as sadhana.Indeed it is a very endearing and wonderful composition of Sri Bhagavan.
Thanks very much for your kind words on my attempted translation and your questions as well.
I have endeavoured to be as faithful to Sri Bhagavan's words as I can and not 'interpret' by adding words or ideas that are not there in the composition.
I find that both Professor Swaminathan and Smt Kanakammal have added their own ideas and interpretation,however valid they may be otherwise.I will attempt to clarify the specific points that you have raised.

1.
Quote
In the first stanza, you have translated:   
“The Tatva unspokenly spoken by the Satguru –
Who is Truth Consciousness Bliss.”,
whereas Prof. Sri Swaminathan has translated the same as “Heed the word, unique, unspoken, Taught by the teacher true who teaches, the truth of Being-Awareness-Bliss. “
In Prof. Swaminathan’s translation, it is the Guru who teaches the truth of Being-Awareness-Bliss, whereas in your translation It is Satguru who is Truth consciousness Bliss. I wish to know which one is more accurate literally according to the Original?

I will give you Sri Bhagavan's own words in transliteration format and it will help us to understand this.
After the first line where Sri Bhagavan says-Not hanker and wander in this world,He says:
Sat Bodha Sukha Sat guruvanavar-This means -The Guru who is Sat Bodha Sukha (Sat Chit Ananda-Truth Consciousness Bliss)
seppaadhu sonna unspokenly spoken
Tatuvamagira Oppuyarvillaa Or mozhiyin padi-literally means -The one word  peerless that is the Tatva,as per that,to abide as That(Please compare with-In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God)
The Guru simply IS steeped in Being.He is Sat Chit Ananda.
This is what Sri Ramakrishna Says:There is only one Guru, and that is Satchidananda. He alone is the Teacher.It is Satchidananda that comes to us in the form of the guru. If a man is initiated by a human guru, he will not achieve anything if he regards his guru as a mere man. The guru should be regarded as the direct manifestation of God. Only then can the disciple have faith in the mantra given by the guru. Once a man has faith he, achieves all".

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #629 on: July 24, 2013, 07:58:54 AM »
Anil/Friends,
Tamizh is a wonderful language , quite fluid and flexible in terms of lending itself for adroit,subtle expressions that suggest different meanings ,all equally valid -and when it is handled by a Great Jnani like Sri Bhagavan,it shines like a multifaceted jewel.This Often poses a Huge challenge to the Translator even in terms of remaining literally
faithful,leave aside the import of it!There simply is no way to translate this multidimensional element  into English.
Let us explore this dimension here and we will find how Professor Swaminathan's translation is Equally valid,although it somehow lacks the punch and we may see the why of it.

Quote
Ippuvi thannil yengi thiriyaamal(Not hanker and wander in this world)
Sat Bodha Sukha Sat guruvanavar/
seppaadhu sonna tattuvamaagira/
Oppuyarvillaa Or mozhiyin padi

This may be constructed as Follows:
Sat Guru Vanavar Seppadhu sonna/
Oppuyarvillaa Or Mozhiyin padi/
Sat Bodha Sukha Tattuvamagira/

This would mean:
The Sat Guru who unspokenly spoke/
The One word peerless,as per That/
The Tatva that is sat Bodha Sukha(The Sat Chit Ananda Tatva)

The Peerless ' one word'(Or Mozhi in tamizh) is the Mahavakya-'Tatvamasi'

Now here comes the Beauty of it.
The word 'Or' in tamizh may mean 'one' or 'intuit' ;
and the word 'mozhi' may mean 'word' or 'language'
Thus 'Oppuyarvilla Or Mozhi' can be 'The one word ,peerless' and it can also mean 'The peerless Language of intuition'(SILENCE).True Silence is the ONE LANGUAGE that is understood  by one and all-not just humans!
The Satguru is himself Satchitananda,and is communicating it through eloquent silence,the tava which is also Satchitananda.

continued....