Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 356804 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #555 on: February 07, 2013, 01:49:00 PM »
udai,
I know you are good at scriptural study but a little out of syllabus and things come tumbling down! :)
All that matters is 'Presence' whether it is on account of physical proximity or otherwise.Sri Bhagavan is emphasizing the Presence.This is all there to it.Anything that helps to invoke this presence is valid.No excuse is permitted to limit it at the same time to just physical proximity alone.This is quite elementary to understand.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #556 on: February 07, 2013, 02:05:43 PM »
udai,
one swallow does not make a summer..If annamalai swami was advised in a particular way,it does not mean that the same thing is valid for others.Why did sri bhagavan then permit others to stay with him?Why did he then take part in legal wrangles over the ownership of the ashramam?Why did he install the Meru chakra.

Coming to Presence,one easily discovers it in oneself if one is in the physical presence of a Saint.This is what sri ramakrishna says in that quotation.This is the very purpose of satsangha.It is better to be attached to the Great ones than to some 'Heroic idea' of Independence and self sufficiency.It is quite likely that one is merely dwelling in an imaginary world of self sufficiency through such an isolation.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #557 on: February 07, 2013, 03:58:01 PM »
udai,
There is no 'one' to revel in the first place.As long as 'one' is revelling,it is an idea only, irrespective of what on thinks.All this talk of 'Vision' and 'Liberation' are just a mental conviction only and nothing more.
If the Self is truly perceived as Self,one should be in a position to understand others and that all is well with others.The very fact that we see insufficiency in others means simply that what we see is not Self.
So,let us not talk about Self about which we seem to have only an 'idea'.
All the Great ones have said that it is easy to to discover the Presence in the sannidhi of Great ones.This has to be verified and experienced.In the absence of such a verification and experience,one will continue in what one thinks as True.What to do?
If presence cannot help,teaching through words also cannot help unless the disciple is ready.
Namaskar.


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #558 on: February 07, 2013, 04:38:55 PM »
udai,
Forget duality or nonduality.If others are Self,what is the need to tell them they are The Self in the first place.On the other hand if we truly understand the inherent divinity and recognize its presence in others,what prevents us from perceiving its manifestation in whatever small measure it seems to present itself!Why are we not in a position to understand and appreciate this simple thing in others?
Spirituality is all about being in Harmony with others.This alone can be a verifiable and Objective Criteria.All other talk of self sufficiency and independence are purely subjective and are unreliable and Fragile irrespective of what one may like to think.
Namaskar.
 

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #559 on: February 10, 2013, 07:01:29 AM »
Friends,
An excerpt from a Talk by Sage TGN:TRAINED  MIND  IS  YOUR  BEST  GURU
“The one job of your five senses is to drag and enmesh you further and further in the morass of the world-process until you find no line of retreat and have to be going round in circles like an ox yoked to the treadmill for extracting oil (chekku-maadu). The senses, however, are only cat’s paws and it is the mind that is the villain of the piece. Ever on the prowl for pickings of immediate pleasure for which purpose the only known tools available to it are the innocent senses, the mind schemes and weaves out a network of rainbow-hues in anticipation, little aware of the pitfalls and gins that are the ground-realities. No wonder Thayumanavar was driven to describe the mind as ‘the goblin-monkey jumping about after being stung by a red-scorpion.’ 
The problem for us is that we have to live with our mind since we cannot wish it away. It is surely not an enviable situation we find ourselves in, where we can neither subdue the mind nor acquiesce in its wayward activities. Are we to be helpless and hapless through life, slipping from one misery to another and always dreading what the next moment could have in store for us?
You will agree that there is an imperative need to evolve a definitive system of Mind-culture that would enable and equip us to transact with the world-process without losing our inner poise and without having to harvest regret at the end of interaction. The obvious preliminary step is to get to know the anatomy of what you seek to discipline viz., the mind.
In Yoga-Vaasishtam, Sage Vasishta likens the mind to a strange creature with multiple heads and arms and legs that is flagellating itself and crying out it is in misery all the time. In the absence of any spiritual training to start with, Vasishta admits he could not stop or control the strange creature with a view to ascertaining the cause for its masochistic obsession. Acquiring such a yogic training later (by the method of pratyagaram which consists of willful withdrawal of the mind every time it strays into world-activities and develops likes and dislikes) Vasishta could stop the creature in its tracks and inquire, ‘Who are you? Why are you putting yourself to so much needless suffering?’ On hearing these words of cold logic the creature flares up and screams, You are my enemy. You ask me ‘Who am I?’ and under your gaze I am wilting and wasting away!
Sage Vasishta relates the experience to his star-disciple Rama: ‘Even as I was looking, the many heads and arms and legs of the strange being melted away. The creature sobbed over the loss, then it laughed as if in relief and again it wept. Ultimately in a long burst of joyous laughter the being vanished, leaving no trace behind. It was an eerie encounter proving that truth could at times be stranger than fiction.’
This is a parable of deep import. The mind was the freak-creature and its several heads were its thoughts and desires, and the many arms were the doubts and fears with which it was torturing itself.  When the mind was forced to raise the question ‘Who am I?’ it started to look for its own identity for the first time. That is, instead of projecting outward as hitherto, it was turned on itself, to find that it had no independent existence but was only a projection of the life-energy.
Mind is aroopa (formless) by itself but it takes the shape and quality of any object it contemplates. On thinking of chocolate the mind becomes a three-dimensional candy-bar, and the sense-organ for taste viz., the tongue commences watering. By the same token, when placed on life-energy the mind becomes subtle as never before, for that is the anatomy of the basic energy-particle.
In the process of seeking its own origin, all the doubts it had piled up through generations were dispelled rapidly and all its worldly desires were rendered redundant. However, prolonged association with doubts and desires had generated a sense of ownership for them in the mind and it grieved over their loss due to habit. But realising that the shedding of adjuncts (upadhis) was to its own good in that it was getting lightened, the mind exulted. As Bhagavan Ramana Maharishi used to say ‘desires are the food and fuel for the mind’; and once the mind is denuded of its raison d’etre, it simply ceases to exist and subsides in its source and origin like a river merging in the ocean in an irreversible confluence.

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #560 on: February 10, 2013, 07:03:45 AM »
Excerpt from TGN continued....

By way of summarising what has been explained so far, I shall go to a few questions and answer them:

•What  is Mind?
 It is only a projection of your life-energy.

•Why  is it  in agitation  most of the time?
Because it does not know itself or its own base and source. Ignorance is the root-cause of misery.

• How  shall I quieten  the mind?
By turning it 180° on its axis.

•Will it remain  in  the revised angle?
Initially it will not, because the torque will tend to deflect it back slowly to its habituated position.

•How  shall I prevent the deflection?
By remaining vigilant and applying angle-correction (which is also course-correction) on a continuing basis.

•To sum up
A trained mind is your best Guru. Which means, you are your own Master.
I am only showing the Way; and remember, I may not be doing it for long.


Namaskar

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #561 on: February 11, 2013, 04:31:44 AM »
" I realised i never wanted extinction,but eternal life,a happy one. There lies paradox. I want all that,but i know i need to be without desires and wantings,and then i am strugling with it. The one who is himself desire wants to be desireless,wants to be perfect. Can it? Or it just need to see his nonexistence.
Yes,this is the paradox.How to reconcile Freedom with Discipline?This is an interesting topic.
Logically,if there is no 'I',then all associated problems ,paradoxes cease!Is advaitic solution then the only definitive one?Does it mean that the other schools of Visishtadvaitic or Dvaitic systems are intrinsically flawed ?Then how come the Great ones who championed them could have said what they did?Were they mistaken?Did they mislead their followers?To me,the answer is an emphatic NO!This may not be an appropriate thread for this discussion,but nevertheless the interesting thing is that in all the three schools or Philosophical systems,the Fundamentals of spiritual Living are the same!We may examine it in the Rough Note book thread,if we are interested."

Dear Sri Ravi,

There was never question of reconciling Freedom and Discipline. If we speak honestly,Self enquiry itself ask for very great amount of discipline. Thats why we in the first place chose not to do it. Or,it is simple reason of impatience. But,all dont need to chose it. What ever is ones natural way,is good. That is most important. If we ask poet to be disciplined in solving matematitian tasks,he will be undisciplined. If You ask matematitian to write poetry,he will be undisciplined. It is all matter of interest.
There is no question of spiritual living. Living in general should be right living. But what is right,and what wrong is big mistery. All shools of thought are good. They all lead to one Truth. There is no a thousand truth,but one. What is Life,what is God,and what is Reality. Mettods differ,all are deffending their way. But how Rishis lived,a 3 thousand years ago is not very much applyiable to me. I can apply only that which goes with my own experience and way of thinking. And that is definetly,that i didnt met so far man who was able to master his senses,appart from practice. Practice itself is leading to that. And how much i saw,that goes hand in hand with practice. Not before that.

I dont think that any philosophy is missleading. They are there for all sorts of tastes,and equaly right. However,i cannot speak about them with confidence,coz i know my own way. And only in that way i am  certain. This question,about paradox,is ego question anyway. It speaks about paradox,about mind and ego at all. It is completely contradictory,which ego anyway is. It is all question what ego wants. He is always in war with itself. Whole picture of ego is one big contradiction. It cannot be reconciled. Only droped.
I hope i could explane what i ment.

With love and prayers,
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 04:48:22 AM by Jewell »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #562 on: February 11, 2013, 06:58:18 AM »
Jewell,
Please see my post above -excerpt from TGN's talk that reconciles Freedom,Discipline and the role of self-enquiry.Just to use simple anaology(I know no analogy will be ideal),we may say self-enquiry is the engine,Discipline is the Brake and Freedom is the accelerator in a car.
I do understand your perspective.
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #563 on: February 11, 2013, 04:25:40 PM »
I am prompted to share this story, which perhaps most of us may already be familiar with:

Narada, a divine sage in Hindu mythology, is arguably the greatest of Vishnu’s many devotees. But Narada was considered to be vain about his devotion to Vishnu – every now and then he needed some validation from Vishnu. As the story goes, Narada once went to Vaikuntha (Vishnu’s abode in the heavens) and asked him, “Who is your favorite devotee?” Vishnu knew fully well what Narada was hoping to hear but he wanted to teach Narada a lesson. Vishnu names a poor farmer in a village on distant Earth as his favorite devotee. A crestfallen and baffled Narada wants to know what was so special about the farmer. Vishnu suggests that the two of them travel to the farmer’s house – Narada could then see for himself.

Narada and Vishnu promptly beam themselves down to the village and arrive at the farmer’s hut, disguised as weary travelers. The farmer is extremely hospitable and makes them feel at home. The next morning, Narada shadows the farmer as he works hard in his fields. Throughout the day, Narada doesn’t get any glimpse of the farmer’s extraordinary devoutness so when they return to the hut in the evening, a visibly puzzled Narada asks “When and how many times do you pray to / think about Vishnu?” The farmer replies “Once in the morning, once in the evening, and as many times during the day as I can during my time in the fields.” Narada and Vishnu thank the farmer for his hospitality and leave.

As soon as they were out of earshot, Narada lets out a guffaw and confronts Vishnu with “The farmer thinks about you a mere 5-6 times a day while I think and sing paeans to you every single waking minute. How could you possibly consider the farmer to be a more superior devotee than me?” Vishnu smiles, materializes a pot (filled to the brim with oil) and places it gingerly on Narada’s unsuspecting head. He then commands Narada to walk the width of the field and return to the original spot without spilling a single drop of oil. With utmost concentration, Narada manages to accomplish the feat.

Vishnu: “So Narada, how many times did you think about me during your walk across the field?”

Narada: “Not even once! How could I when all my attention was on the pot and ensuring that not a drop would spill?”

A smiling Vishnu delivering the checkmate: “The farmer works hard in his fields all day, yet he finds the time to think about me a few times. You, on the other hand, couldn’t think of me even once!”

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #564 on: February 11, 2013, 04:33:28 PM »
Nagaraj,
Just a little while ago,I wished to post this very story from the Tales and parables of Sri Ramakrishna and here you have posted it!Thanks very much.
Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #565 on: February 11, 2013, 04:41:13 PM »
Dear Sri Nagaraj,

Thank You Very much for this wonderful story! It is beautiful,with great lesson behind it.

With love and prayers,

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #566 on: February 11, 2013, 06:17:20 PM »
:) he hee :) a casual note: in my absence ... this forum is very calm and peaceful :), everyone agreeing with everyone else and saying "very well said ! Sabash!!"

Quite true, individually, we should really take some piece from this expression of yours -

in my absence ... this forum is very calm and peaceful :)

when each refers to oneself, that is the primordial 'I' that is the ego, when it is absent, everything is calm and peaceful.

:) :)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

ramana_maharshi

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #567 on: February 11, 2013, 06:50:59 PM »
HaHa, had fun reading your post about spritual persons attitudes in general udai garu.

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #568 on: February 11, 2013, 06:55:25 PM »
Well, i do not know if that is supposedly a compliment or a criticism, here, i give another ode to my spiritual credentials, What I am is your own problem, you seem to have so much time and ideas in differentiating between a spiritual and a non-spiritual person.

It does not matter to me if your are spiritual or otherwise or for that matter even myself!

:) :)

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #569 on: February 12, 2013, 03:39:28 PM »
When you pray for someone in need, the prayer will help him and also purify your mind. Then why not pray for the welfare of all? Praying for the welfare of all is a hallmark of the tradition of Sanatana Dharma. - Sri Sri Bharati Tirtha Mahaswamigal
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha