Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 314280 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #495 on: December 05, 2012, 05:18:27 PM »
Anil,

"but unless you plunge into God with yearning of heart, you will not comprehend Him. By mere scholarship you may fool man, but not God."

Quote
Dear Sri Ravi,
Pranam,

Sri Bhagwan has also said that if there is yearning in the heart, Realisation will be forced upon you whether you desire it or not.

Thanks very much, sir.

Pranam,
  Anil

Yes indeed ,Friend.Interestingly ,both Sri Ramakrishna and Sri Bhagavan did not consider scriptural knowledge as essential to Realization.

Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #496 on: December 05, 2012, 05:46:13 PM »
Dear Tusnim,

Sri Bhagvan has said that 'yearning for liberation' called Subeccha, is mentioned in the Talls No., 256..

There Sri Bagavan explains seven jnana bhoomis. This is the first stage.

Arnachala Siva.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #497 on: December 05, 2012, 05:58:22 PM »
udai/Subramanian,
Here is the excerpt from Talk 265,21st October 1936:

The aristocratic lady again came after a few days, went straight to Bhagavan, saluted him and said:“I came last time with my husband and children. I was thinking of
their food and time was pressing. So I could not stay here as long as I would have wished. But I was later worried over the hurried nature of the visit. I have returned now to sit quiet and imbibe Sri Bhagavan’s Grace. May He give me strength of mind!”

The hall was already kept clear of people. She sat on a crude carpet in front of Sri Bhagavan. Sri Bhagavan said smiling: “Yes.Silence is perpetual speaking. Ordinary speech hinders that heart to- heart talk.”
She agreed and sat quiet. Sri Bhagavan was sitting reclining on the sofa. His eyes were fixed in her direction with a gracious smile on His
lips. Both remained silent and motionless for about an hour.Prasad was distributed. The lady said: “Now I want to return. The river between Bangalore and this place is in floods. On my way here a bus was overturned in the floods. My car came later, and I saw the sad accident. Still I was not afraid to ford the river. My car came out
safe. I would like to return in daytime.
“This time I shall not say ‘is the last time I shall come’ as I said on former occasions. I do not know, but it may be so. Yet Maharshi should give me strength of mind.
“I long for bhakti. I want more of this longing. Even realisation does not matter for me. Let me be strong in my longing.”
M.: If the longing is there, Realisation will be forced on you even if you do not want it. Subhechcha is the doorway for realisation.

D.: Let it be so. But I am content with longing. Even when I am away from this place I must not relax in my devotion. May Sri Bhagavan give me the necessary strength. Such longing could only be through His Grace. I am personally too weak.Again, when I was here on a previous occasion I asked several questions. But I could not follow Sri Bhagavan’s answers. I thought I would not ask any more questions but only sit quiet in His Presence imbibing Grace which might be extended to me.
So I do not pursue Maharshi with more questions this time. Only let me have His Grace
.
M.: Your repeated visits to this place indicate the extension of Grace.
She was surprised and said: “I was going to ask Maharshi if He called me. For all of a sudden my husband told me this morning: ‘There are two days free. If you want you may visit Maharshi and return.’
“I was very agreeably surprised and pleased. I took it to be a call from Maharshi.” She also expressed a desire to reside near Maharshi and asked for His blessings.
Maharshi said: A Higher Power is leading you. Be led by the same.
D.: But I am not aware of it. Please make me aware of it.
M.: The Higher Power knows what to do and how to do it. Trust it.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #498 on: December 05, 2012, 06:08:02 PM »
Longing is like the rosy dawn. After the dawn out comes the sun.Longing is followed by the vision of God.

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #499 on: December 05, 2012, 06:24:57 PM »
Dear Ravi,

Yes. This longing for God is described by Sri Bhagavan slightly differently, 'yearning for liberation'. It is in Talks No. 256.
It is called Subeccha. It is one of the 7 Jnana Bhoomis, the first stage.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #500 on: December 05, 2012, 06:28:43 PM »
Dear Ravi,

Manikkavachagar says:

வான நாடரும் அறி ஒணாத நீ
மறையில் ஈறும் முன் தொடர் ஒணாத நீ
ஏனை நாடரும் தெரி ஒணாத நீ
என்னை இன்னிதாய் ஆண்டு கொண்டவா
ஊனை நாடகம் ஆடு வித்தவா
உருகி நான் உனைப் பருக வைத்தவா
ஞான நாடகம் ஆடு வித்தவா
நைய வையகத்து உடைய விச்சையே. 99

Arunachala Siva.

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #501 on: December 05, 2012, 06:56:57 PM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #502 on: December 05, 2012, 08:24:28 PM »
 "If the longing is there, Realisation will be forced on you even if you do not want it. Subhechcha is the doorway for realisation."

Dear Sri Tushnim,

Yes, why doubt it? This is a very important saying of Sri Bhagwan which has even been mentioned in Sriramanasramam's Diary, 2011, on page dated April 1,2011, below Sri Bhagwan's picture.

Dear Sri Tushnim, both Sri Ramakrishna Param Hamsa as well as Sri Bhagwan, our two great Masters, do not consider study of scriptures as essential to Realisation. I do not understand why you  cannot accept this simple fact.

Pranam,
  Anil 

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #503 on: December 05, 2012, 09:22:12 PM »
Quote
Dear Sri Tushnim, both Sri Ramakrishna Param Hamsa as well as Sri Bhagwan, our two great Masters, do not consider study of scriptures as essential to Realisation. I do not understand why you  cannot accept this simple fact.

My take regarding study of Scriptures :

I discussed this personally with a Traditional Teacher of Advaita and he said that traditionally students are required to study the 3 main sources of Advaitic Texts : 1) Bhagavad Gita 2) Ten Major Upanishads and 3) Brahma Sutra plus lots of other Prakarna Granthas like Viveka Chudamani , Atma Bodha , Upadesa Saram , Tattva Bodha etc etc

But he said that since maturity of each student is different , some may inspite of reading all the above texts might still be confused and not clear and some  mature students may after studying a simple text Atma Bodha , Upadesa Saram or even a minor Upanishad like Keno Upanishad might feel they have had their doubts cleared and feel no more inclined to study further texts and go away and the teacher will definitely welcome such a step . But if such a student wants to convey / teach Scriptures to others then he must have a solid knowledge of all the above texts as understanding the truth for one's own self is different from able to convey to others in a proper methodology .
So for personal clarity there is no compulsion to study all those texts .

The question is not what you read ( i.e Upanishads  , Ramana's works , Ramakrishna Works etc ) , how much you read but what have you assimilated or understood  or how much clear you are . So it all boils to a students maturity and his coming in contact with the right teacher or right book that answers his doubts .
So we can never standardize saying one should read or not read scriptures as each and every individual vary with regard to their spiritual maturity . That is one reason we have  Adi Shankara write lot of works called Prakarna Granthas like Upadesa Sahasri ( 1000 verses ) to Eka Sloki ( 1 verse ) and even Bhagwan Ramana wrote Upadesa Saram , Sar Darshanam and translated Adi Shankara's Atma Bodham , Dakshinamurti Stotram etc in Tamil  and Muruganar wrote tons of pages in classical Tamil on Bhagwan Ramana's Upadesa . What is the need for Muruganar to write so many pages in classical Tamil  when Bhagwan's main message is just "Silence "? How many people are competent to understand that "Silence" of Bhagwan ?
By the way I have seen people who are against studying  Traditional Scriptures keep volumes of books  and CDs of their favorite teacher and keep reading them daily or listening to them daily like scriptures . If those Books can give better explanation or clarity to them it is fine but there are some people who feel that they get that clarity by reading Traditional scriptures and not through other teachers and we need to respect that also.

So in conclusion :
 Let those who want to study traditional scriptures study and those who do not want to study  need not study and we must respect both . Ultimately we cannot force anyone to do something that they are not naturally inclined to do or interested to do .

Om Peace .
« Last Edit: December 05, 2012, 09:48:02 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #504 on: December 05, 2012, 09:44:43 PM »
Quote:
"So in conclusion :
 Let those who want to study traditional scriptures study and those who do not want to study  need not study and we must respect both . Ultimately we cannot force anyone to do something that they are not naturally inclined to do or interested to do "


Dear Sri atmavichar,

Yes. I personally feel exactly the same. Thanks very much.

Pranam,
  Anil


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #505 on: December 05, 2012, 10:54:01 PM »
Friends,
"Everyone thinks his watch is right; but as a matter of fact no watch is absolutely right. But that doesn't hamper one's work. If a man is restless for
God he gains the company of sadhus and as far as possible corrects his own watch with the sadhu's help".


The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna

I do not totally agree with this maturity theory propounded by the Traditional advaita Teacher.It is more a matter of predeliction and exposure.In fact,I would say that the more mature a seeker,the less and less he would rely on scriptural knowledge!

I also do not agree with the competency required to understand the Silence of Bhagavan!(This is one of the usual arguements that Swami Dayananda and his disciples put forth!I have to say that this is quite silly)Even monkeys and animals were competent to understand and appreciate the Silence in Bhagavan's Presence.It requires sadhana to be in that stae on one's own.This is all.

As For Muruganar,it was simply his prarabda that he happened to be a Tamil Teacher with a Fascination for Tiruvachakam,and blessed with the Bhakti of a Manikkavachakar ,he composed those works and Sri Bhagavan encouraged it in his case.

So the issue is not whether scriptural works can be studied or not.The issue is when someone tries to dump it on others and goes to a Ridiculous extreme in saying that without a systematic study of it Self Realization is not possible!This is the problem.This sort of a false propaganda is orchestrated by the likes of Swami Dayananda and I have personally come across many of those carried away by this sort of a 'Traditional' concoction.
One of the Best exponents of pure advaitic teaching that I have come across is Sri Nochur Venkatraman.I warmly recommend his talks to all seekers who understand Tamizh or MalayaLam as he usually talks in these languages.Truly a Great soul.

Namaskar.


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #506 on: December 06, 2012, 09:46:44 PM »
Friends,
Sri Swami Yukteswar Giri,guru of paramahansa Yogananda is a sage and a strong disciplinarian.His sayings are always pithy and straightforward.Here is one such saying:
"Do not confuse understanding with a larger vocabulary. Sacred writings are beneficial in stimulating desire for inward realisation, if one stanza at a time is slowly assimilated. Otherwise, continual intellectual study may result in vanity, false satisfaction, and undigested knowledge".

Autobiography of a Yogi

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #507 on: December 07, 2012, 06:26:00 AM »
Subramanian/friends,

Quote
Dear Ravi,

Excellent. This excellent idea has also been reflected in Manikkavachagar's verse 1 in Kovil Mootha Tirupadigam.


 உடையாள் உன்தன் நடுவிருக்கும் உடையாள் நடுவுள் நீயிருத்தி
அடியேன் நடுவுள் இருவீரும் இருப்பதானால் அடியேன்உன்
அடியார் நடுவுள் இருக்கும் அருளைப்புரி யாய் பொன்னம்பலத்தெம்
முடியா முதலே என்கருத்து முடியும் வண்ணம் முன்னின்றே. 378


Once Sri Bhagavan was asked at to why He was not singing any praise for Uma. Sri Bhagavan said: It is she who is within
me and making me write about Siva!

Arunachala Siva

Beautiful verse of Manikkavachakar.Great ones have realized the fundamental Truth and they echo the same!Quite charming.

Thanks very much.

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #508 on: December 07, 2012, 07:33:09 AM »
Friends,
Guru is Tatvam,is a principle that manifests to clear the ignorance and guide us on the path.This is what Sri Ramakrishna says:

Quote
"Satchidananda alone is the Guru. If a man in the form of a guru awakens spiritual consciousness in you, then know for certain that it is God the Absolute who has
assumed that human form for your sake".

It is helpful for seekers to understand this in a deep way and not limit this Guru Tatva with a particular Name and form only.If this is done,one will not be in a conflict whether it is appropriate to quote Sri Ramakrishna or Sri saibaba or any of the other Great ones in a Forum devoted to Sri Bhagavan Ramana.Although intellectually we understand this principle,unless we internalize the same,it manifests as a conflict and expresses itself in some way or other.

I am happy to see that there are many seperate threads that posts the teachings of Great ones and this is a convenient way to present and assimilate the same.
What differentiates the devotee from a fan?What distinguishes a devotee of a Guru from a Fan of a Star Personality?
A Devotee is an aspirant of the teachings of the Guru.This teaching helps him to dissolve his isolation and particular beliefs,and realize what is truly universal in him that links him with the all-the whole.
A Fan is someone who attaches himself to a Star(a film star or a Politician or a Guru)as it gives him a sense of 'Identity' and security;he basks vicariously in the reflected glory.He is happy to belong to the elite club that differentiates him from the common mass.The only way he can strengthen the bond with his STAR is to isolate himself from any links with any other Star or Group.In other words,he promotes personality cult and exhults in the superiority of his cult over that of every other similiar cult.

Spiritual Truth is something fundamental and universal;yet in its presentation for the seeker,it is packaged differently to suit the predeliction and particular background of the seeker.This explains the seeming differences between the teachings of various Great ones,and it is indeed proper and advisable that every seeker sticks to what is graspable by him.As we do this and internalize it,we will realize that all the teachings are relevant and appropriate and are designed to reach out to those who have a need for that.This understanding dissolves the 'Hierarchy' that one teaching is superior to the other,or that one is more Enlightening than the Other-all this exclusivity is dissolved.

The Fundamental attitudes that a seeker needs to imbibe remain the same-Humility,earnestness,steadfastness,Healthy respect for others,serenity,etc.Every teaching if pursued sincerely should lead to this and beyond to the universal essence of our Being.

It is helpful for seekers to read not just the teachings but also lives of the Great ones,as it will certainly help to develop the attitude that is indispensable and helps to assimilate the teachings;this way the teaching can be not just cerebrated but deeply internalized and lived.

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #509 on: December 07, 2012, 08:05:19 AM »
in the same line, i provide the link to another article on Guru Tatvam.

http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=7164.msg31343#msg31343

« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 11:55:49 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta