Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 284177 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #450 on: November 08, 2012, 06:02:03 PM »
Hari,
For cguru,Please see the thread 'Light post' by silentgreen under the Translations and commentaries Head.
Namaskar.

Hari

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #451 on: November 08, 2012, 06:13:16 PM »
Thank you, Sri Ravi!
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
https://someoneelsebg.000webhostapp.com/Sages/HTML.html

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #452 on: November 09, 2012, 06:34:52 AM »
Discussion on jnAna and Bhakti as in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued...

At eight o'clock that evening the Master was sitting in his room with Rakhal and M. It was
the twenty-first day of M.'s stay with Sri Ramakrishna. The Master had forbidden him to
indulge in reasoning.

Futility of reasoning

MASTER (to Rakhal): "It is not good to reason too much. First comes God, and then the
world. Realize God first; then you will know all about His world
. (To M. and Rakhal) If
first one is introduced to Jadu Mallick, then one can know everything about him-the
number of his houses, gardens, government securities, and so on. For this reason the rishi
Narada advised Valmiki1 to repeat the word 'mara'. 'Ma' means God, and 'ra' the world.
First comes God, and then the world. Krishnakishore said that the word 'mara' is a holy
mantra because it was given to Valmiki by the rishi. 'Ma' means God, and 'rā' the world.
"Therefore, like Valmiki, one should at first renounce everything and cry to God in solitude
with a longing heart. The first thing necessary is the vision of God; then comes reasoning about
the scriptures and the world.


(To M.) "That is why I have been telling you not to reason any more. I came from the pinegrove
to say that to you. Through too much reasoning your spiritual life will be injured; you
will at last become like Hazra
. I used to roam at night in the streets, all alone, and cry to the
Divine Mother, 'O Mother, blight with Thy thunderbolt my desire to reason!' Tell me that
you won't reason any more."

M: "Yes, sir. I won't reason any more."

MASTER: "Everything can be achieved through bhakti alone. Those who want the
Knowledge of Brahman will certainly achieve that also by following the trail of bhakti.

"Can a man blessed with the grace of God ever lack Knowledge? At Kamarpukur I have
seen grain-dealers measuring paddy. As one heap is measured away another heap is pushed
forward to be measured. The Mother supplies the devotees with the 'heap' of Knowledge. .
"After attaining God, one looks on a pundit as mere straw and dust. Padmalochan said to
me: 'What does it matter if I accompany you to a meeting at the house of a fisherman?
With you I can dine even at the house of a pariah.'

"Everything can be realized simply through love of God. If one is able to love God, one
does not lack anything
. Kartika and Ganesa were seated near Bhagavati, who had a
necklace of gems around Her neck. The Divine Mother said to them, 'I will present this
necklace to him who is the first to go around the universe.' Thereupon Kartika, without
losing a moment, set out on the peacock, his carrier. Ganesa, on the other hand, in a
leisurely fashion went around the Divine Mother and prostrated himself before Her. He
knew that She contained within Herself the entire universe. The Divine Mother was pleased
with him and put the necklace around his neck. After a long while Kartika returned and
found his brother seated there with the necklace on".

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #453 on: November 13, 2012, 02:56:52 PM »
Discussion on Jnana and Bhakti as in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued...

M. accompanied theMaster to the verandah, where Narendra was talking with Hazra. Sri Ramakrishna
knew that Hazra always indulged in dry philosophical discussions. Hazra would say: "The world
is unreal, like a dream. Worship, food offerings to the Deity, and so forth, are only
hallucinations of the mind. The aim of spiritual life is to meditate on one's own real Self
."

Then he would repeat, "I am He." But, with all that, he had a soft corner in his heart for
money, material things, and people's attention.

Sri Ramakrishna smiled and said to Hazra and Narendra, "Hello! What are you talking
about?"

NARENDRA (smiling): "Oh, we are discussing a great many things. They are rather too
deep for others."

MASTER (with a smile): "But Pure Knowledge and Pure Love are one and the same thing.
Both lead the aspirants to the same goal. The path of love is much the easier
."

Narendra quoted a song:
O Mother, make me mad with Thy love!
What need have I of knowledge or reason?

Narendra said to M. that he had been reading a book by Hamilton, who wrote: "A learned
ignorance is the end of philosophy and the beginning of religion."


MASTER (to M.): "What does that mean?"

Narendra explained the sentence in Bengali. The Master beamed with joy and said in
English, "Thank you! Thank you!" Everyone laughed at the charming way he said these
words. They knew that his English vocabulary consisted of only half a dozen words.


It was almost dusk when most of the devotees, including Narendra, took leave of the
Master. Sri Ramakrishna went out and looked at the Ganges for a few minutes from the
west porch. Two priests were bathing in preparation for the evening worship. Young men
of the village were strolling in the garden or standing on the concrete embankment, gazing
at the murmuring river. Others, perhaps more thoughtful, were walking about in the
solitude of the Panchavati.

It became dark. The maidservant lighted the lamp in Sri Ramakrishna's room and burnt
incense. The evening worship began in the twelve temples of Siva and in the shrines of
Krishna and Kali.

As it was the first day after the full moon, the moonlight soon flooded the tops of the trees
and temples, and touched with silver the numberless waves of the sacred river.

The Master returned to his room. After bowing to the Divine Mother, he clapped his hands
and chanted the sweet names of God. A number of holy pictures hung on the walls of the
room. Among others, there were pictures of Dhruva, Prahlada, Kali, Radha-Krishna, and
the coronation of Rama. The Master bowed low before the pictures and repeated the holy
names. Then he repeated the holy words, "Brahma-Atma-Bhagavan; Bhagavata-Bhakta-
Bhagavan; Brahma-Sakti, Sakti-Brahma; Veda, Purana, Tantra, Gita, Gayatri." Then he
said: "I have taken refuge at Thy feet, O Divine Mother; not I, but Thou. I am the machine
and Thou art the Operator", and so on
".

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #454 on: November 13, 2012, 03:19:19 PM »
Discussion on Jnana and Bhakti as in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued...

Hazra entered the room and sat with the devotees on the floor. Hazra repeated now and
then, "Soham! Soham!" "I am He! I am He!"

To Latu and other devotees he often said: "What does one gain by worshipping God with
offerings? That is merely giving Him things that are His already." He had said this once to
Narendra.

The Master spoke to him.

MASTER: "I explained to Latu who the object of the devotee's worship is."

HAZRA: "The devotee really prays to his own Self."

MASTER: "What you say is a very lofty thought. The aim of spiritual discipline, of
chanting God's name and glories, is to realize just that. A man attains everything when he
discovers his true Self in himself. The object of sādhanāis to realize that. That also is the
purpose of assuming a human body. One needs the clay mould as long as the gold image
has not been cast; but when the image is made, the mould is thrown away. The body may
be given up after the realization of God
.

"God is not only inside us; He is both inside and outside. The Divine Mother showed me in
the Kali temple that everything is Chinmaya, the Embodiment of Spirit; that it is She who
has become all this―the image, myself, the utensils of worship, the door-sill, the marble
floor. Everything is indeed Chinmaya
.

"The aim of prayer, of spiritual discipline, of chanting the name and glories of God, is to
realize just that. For that alone a devotee loves God. These youngsters are on a lower level;
they haven't yet reached a high spiritual state. They are following the path of bhakti. Please
don't tell them such things as 'I am He'."


Like the mother bird brooding over her chicks, Sri Ramakrishna was alert to protect his
devotees
.

This is a practical point that Sri Ramakrishna always cautioned the seeker.One should take care that philosophical thought does not come in the way of  spontaneous way of Bhakti and stunt and paralyse it.Actually there is no contradiction between the two.They are two standpoints and are not at loggerheads with each other.I will post what Swami Vivekananda says on this topic.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #455 on: November 13, 2012, 03:50:44 PM »
Discussion on jnAna and Bhakti in the words of Swami Vivekananda:

"Only love for the Supreme Lord is true Bhakti. Love for any other being, however great, is not Bhakti. The "Supreme Lord" here means Ishvara, the
concept of which transcends what you in the West mean by the personal God."He from whom this universe proceeds, in whom it rests, and to whom it
returns, He is Ishvara, the Eternal, the Pure, the All-Merciful, the Almighty, the Ever-Free, the All-Knowing, the Teacher of all teachers, the Lord who of His
own nature is inexpressible Love."

Man does not manufacture God out of his own brain; but he can only see God in the light of his own capacity, and he attributes to Him the best of all he
knows. Each attribute is the whole of God, and this signifying the whole by one quality is the metaphysical explanation of the personal God. Ishvara is without
form yet has all forms, is without qualities yet has all qualities. As human beings, we have to see the trinity of existence — God, man, nature; and we
cannot do otherwise
.

But to the Bhakta all these philosophical distinctions are mere idle talk. He cares nothing for argument, he does not reason, he "senses", he perceives. He
wants to love himself in pure love of God, and there have been Bhaktas who maintain that this is more to be desired than liberation, who say, "I do not want
to be sugar. I want to taste sugar; I want to love and enjoy the Beloved."


In Bhakti-Yoga the first essential is to want God honestly and intensely. We want everything but God, because our ordinary desires are fulfilled by the
external world. So long as our needs are confined within the limits of the physical universe, we do not feel any need for God; it is only when we have
had hard blows in our lives and are disappointed with everything here that we feel the need for something higher; then we seek God.

Bhakti is not destructive; it teaches that all our faculties may become means to reach salvation. We must turn them all towards God and give to Him that love
which is usually wasted on the fleeting objects of sense
.

Bhakti differs from your Western idea of religion in that Bhakti admits no elements of fear, no Being to be appeased or propitiated. There are even
Bhaktas who worship God as their own child, so that there may remain no feeling even of awe or reverence. There can be no fear in true love, and so long
as there is the least fear, Bhakti cannot even begin. In Bhakti there is also no place for begging or bargaining with God. The idea of asking God for anything
is sacrilege to a Bhakta. He will not pray for health or wealth or even to go to heaven.

One who wants to love God, to be a Bhakta, must make a bundle of all these desires and leave them outside the door and then enter. He who wants to enter
the realms of light must make a bundle of all "shop-keeping" religion and cast it away before he can pass the gates
. It is not that you do not get what you pray
for; you get everything, but it is low, vulgar, a beggar's religion. "Fool indeed is he, who, living on the banks of the Ganga, digs a little well for water. Fool
indeed is the man who, coming to a mine of diamonds, begins to search for glass beads." These prayers for health and wealth and material prosperity are
not Bhakti. They are the lowest form of Karma. Bhakti is a higher thing. We are striving to come into the presence of the King of kings. We cannot get there
in a beggar's dress. If we wanted to enter the presence of an emperor, would we be admitted in a beggar's rags? Certainly not. The lackey would drive us out of
the gates. This is the Emperor of emperors and never can we come before Him in a beggar's garb. Shop-keepers never have admission there, buying and
selling will not do there at all. You read in the Bible that Jesus drove the buyers and sellers out of the temple.

So it goes without saying that the first task in becoming a Bhakta is to give up all desires of heaven and so on. Such a heaven would be like this place, this
earth, only a little better. The Christian idea of heaven is a place of intensified enjoyment. How can that be God? All this desire to go to heaven is a desire for
enjoyment. This has to be given up. The love of the Bhakta must be absolutely pure and unselfish, seeking nothing for itself either here or hereafter.
"Giving up the desire of pleasure and pain, gain or loss, worship God day and night; not a moment is to be lost in vain."
"Giving up all other thoughts, the whole mind day and night worships God. Thus being worshipped day and night, He reveals Himself and makes His
worshippers feel Him
."

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #456 on: November 13, 2012, 04:09:11 PM »
Discussion on jnAna and Bhakti in the words of Swami Vivekananda,continued...:

INCARNATE TEACHERS AND INCARNATION
Wherever His name is spoken, that very place is holy. How much more so is the man who speaks His name, and with what veneration ought we to approach
that man out of whom comes to us spiritual truth! Such great teachers of spiritual truth are indeed very few in number in this world, but the world is
never altogether without them. They are always the fairest flowers of human life -"the ocean of mercy without any motive".

"Know the Guru to be Me", says Shri Krishna in the Bhagavata. The moment the world is absolutely bereft of these, it becomes a
hideous hell and hastens on to its destruction. Higher and nobler than all ordinary ones are another set of teachers, the
Avatâras of Ishvara, in the world. They can transmit spirituality with a touch, even with a mere wish. The lowest and the most degraded characters become in
one second saints at their command. They are the Teachers of all teachers, the highest manifestations of God through man. We cannot see God except through
them. We cannot help worshipping them; and indeed they are the only ones whom we are bound to worship
.

No man can really see God except through these human manifestations. If we try to see God otherwise, we make for ourselves a hideous caricature of Him
and believe the caricature to be no worse than the original
. There is a story of an ignorant man who was asked to make an image of the God Shiva, and who,
after days of hard struggle, manufactured only the image of a monkey. So whenever we try to think of God as He is in His absolute perfection, we
invariably meet with the most miserable failure, because as long as we are men, we cannot conceive Him as anything higher than man. The time will come
when we shall transcend our human nature and know Him as He is; but as long as we are men, we must worship Him in man and as man. Talk as you may, try
as you may, you cannot think of God except as a man
. You may deliver great intellectual discourses on God and on all things under the sun, become great
rationalists and prove to your satisfaction that all these accounts of the Avataras of God as man are nonsense. But let us come for a moment to practical
common sense. What is there behind this kind of remarkable intellect? Zero, nothing, simply so much froth
. When next you hear a man delivering a great
intellectual lecture against this worship of the Avataras of God, get hold of him and ask what his idea of God is, what he understands by "omnipotence",
"omnipresence", and all similar terms, beyond the spelling of the words. He really means nothing by them; he cannot formulate as their meaning any idea
unaffected by his own human nature; he is no better off in this matter than the man in the street who has not read a single book
. That man in the street,
however, is quiet and does not disturb the peace of the world, while this big talker creates disturbance and misery among mankind
. Religion is, after all,
realisation, and we must make the sharpest distinction between talk; and intuitive experience. What we experience in the depths of our souls is
realisation. Nothing indeed is so uncommon as common sense in regard to this matter
.

continued...

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #457 on: November 13, 2012, 04:24:56 PM »
Discussion on jnAna and Bhakti in the words of Swami Vivekananda,continued...

By our present constitution we are limited and bound to see God as man. If, for instance the buffaloes want to worship God, they will, in keeping with their
own nature, see Him as a huge buffalo; if a fish wants to worship God, it will have to form an Idea of Him as a big fish, and man has to think of Him as man.
And these various conceptions are not due to morbidly active imagination.
Man, the buffalo, and the fish all may be supposed to represent so many different vessels, so to say. All these vessels go to the sea of God to get filled
with water, each according to its own shape and capacity; in the man the water takes the shape of man, in the buffalo, the shape of a buffalo and in the fish, the
shape of a fish. In each of these vessels there is the same water of the sea of God. When men see Him, they see Him as man, and the animals, if they have
any conception of God at all, must see Him as animal each according to its own ideal. So we cannot help seeing God as man, and, therefore, we are bound to
worship Him as man. There is no other way.


Two kinds of men do not worship God as man — the human brute who has no religion, and the Paramahamsa who has risen beyond all the weaknesses of
humanity and has transcended the limits of his own human nature. To him all nature has become his own Self
. He alone can worship God as He is. Here, too,
as in all other cases, the two extremes meet. The extreme of ignorance and the other extreme of knowledge — neither of these go through acts of worship. The
human brute does not worship because of his ignorance, and the Jivanmuktas (free souls) do not worship because they have realised God in themselves.
Being between these two poles of existence, if any one tells you that he is not going to worship God as man, take kindly care of that man; he is, not to use
any harsher term, an irresponsible talker; his religion is for unsound and empty brains
.

God understands human failings and becomes man to do good to humanity:
"Whenever virtue subsides and wickedness prevails, I manifest Myself. To establish virtue, to destroy evil, to save the good I come from Yuga (age) to
Yuga."

"Fools deride Me who have assumed the human form, without knowing My real nature as the Lord of the universe." Such is Shri Krishna's declaration in
the Gita on Incarnation.

"When a huge tidal wave comes," says Bhagavan Shri Ramakrishna, "all the little brooks and ditches become full to the brim without
any effort or consciousness on their own part; so when an Incarnation comes, a tidal wave of spirituality breaks upon the world, and people feel spirituality
almost full in the air."

Bhakti Yoga by Swami Vivekananda

Swamiji's words above are a commentary on Sri Ramakrishna's statement:"The aim of prayer, of spiritual discipline, of chanting the name and glories of God, is to
realize just that. For that alone a devotee loves God. These youngsters are on a lower level; they haven't yet reached a high spiritual state. They are following the path of bhakti. Please don't tell them such things as 'I am He'."


'I am HE' is not a matter of Discussion;it is not something to be debated or intellectually cogitated;when the Mind falls into silence,there is the indescribable.

With this I am concluding the topic on jnAna and Bhakti.

Namaskar.



Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #458 on: November 14, 2012, 04:41:37 PM »
Hari/Friends,
Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

Discipline for God-vision

DEVOTEE: "Sir, we hear that you see God. If you do, please show Him to us."

MASTER: "Everything depends on God's will. What can a man do? While chanting God's
name, sometimes tears flow and at other times the eyes remain dry. While meditating on
God, some days I feel a great deal of inner awakening, and some days I feel nothing.

"A man must work. Only then can he see God. One day, in an exalted mood, I had a vision
of the Haldarpukur. I saw a low-caste villager drawing water after pushing aside the green
scum. Now and then he took up the water in the palm of his hand and examined it. In that
vision it was revealed to me that the water cannot be seen without pushing aside the green
scum that covers it; that is to say, one cannot develop love of God or obtain His vision
without work. Work means meditation, japa, and the like. The chanting of God's name and
glories is work too. You may also include charity, sacrifice, and so on.

"If you want butter, you must let the milk turn to curd. It must be left in a quiet place. When
the milk becomes curd, you must work hard to churn it. Only then can you get butter from
the milk."

Futility of mere study

MAHIMACHARAN: "That is true, sir. Work is certainly necessary. One must labour hard.
Only then does one succeed. There is so much to read! The scriptures are endless."

MASTER (to Mahimacharan): "How much of the scriptures can you read? What will you
gain by mere reasoning? Try to realize God before anything else. Have faith in the guru's
words, and work. If you have no guru, then pray to God with a longing heart. He will let
you know what He is like
.

"What will you learn of God from books? As long as you are at a distance from the marketplace
you hear only an indistinct roar. But it is quite different when you are actually there.
Then you hear and see everything distinctly. You hear people saying: 'Here are your
potatoes. Take them and give me the money.' "From a distance you hear only the rumbling
noise of the ocean. Go near it and you will see many boats sailing about, birds flying, and
waves rolling.

"One cannot get true feeling about God from the study of books. This feeling is something
very different from book-learning. Books, scriptures, and science appear as mere dirt and
straw after the realization of God
.

"The one thing needful is to be introduced to the master of the house. Why are you so
anxious to know beforehand how many houses and gardens, and how many government
securities, the master possesses? The servants of the house would not allow you even to
approach these, and they would certainly not tell you about their master's investments.
Therefore, somehow or other become acquainted with the master, even if you have to jump
over the fence or take a few pushes from the servants. Then the master himself will tell you
all about his houses and gardens and his government securities. And what is more, the
servants and the door-keeper will salute you when you are known to the master.' (All
laugh.)

continued...

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #459 on: November 14, 2012, 04:46:31 PM »
Excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued....

Yearning for God

DEVOTEE: "Now the question is how to become acquainted with the master." (Laughter.)

MASTER: "That is why I say that work is necessary. It will not do to say that God exists
and then idle away your time. You must reach God somehow or other. Call on Him in
solitude and pray to Him, 'O Lord! reveal Thyself to me.' Weep for Him with a longing
heart.
You roam about in search of 'woman and gold' like a madman; now be a little mad
for God. Let people say, 'This man has lost his head for God.' Why not renounce everything
for a few days and call on God in solitude?

Work hard for His realization

"What will you achieve by simply saying that God exists and doing nothing about it? There
are big fish in the Haldarpukur; but can you catch them by merely sitting idly on the bank?
Prepare some spiced bait and throw it into the lake. Then the fish will come from the deep
water and you will see ripples. That will make you happy. Perhaps a fish will jump with a
splash and you will get a glimpse of it. Then you will be so glad!
"Milk must be turned to curd and the curd must be churned. Only then will you get butter
.
(To Mahima) What a nuisance! Someone must show God to a man, while he himself sits
idly by all the while! Someone must extract the butter and hold it in front of his mouth! (All
laugh.) What a bother! Someone else must catch the fish and give it to him!


"A man wanted to see the king. The king lived in the inner court of the palace, beyond
seven gates. No sooner did the man pass the first gate than he exclaimed, 'Oh, where is the
king?' But there were seven gates, and he must pass them one after another before he could
see the king."

MAHIMACHARAN: "By what kind of work can one realize God?"

MASTER: "It is not that God can be realized by this work and not by that. The vision of
God depends on His grace. Still a man must work a little with longing for God in his heart.
If he has longing he will receive the grace of God
.

Favourable conditions for realization of God

"To attain God a man must have certain favourable conditions: the company of holy men,
discrimination, and the blessings of a real teacher. Perhaps his elder brother takes the
responsibility for the family; perhaps his wife has spiritual qualities and is very virtuous;
perhaps he is not married at all or entangled in worldly life. He succeeds when conditions
like these are fulfilled.

"In a certain family a man lay seriously ill. He was at the point of death. Someone said:
'Here is a remedy: First it must rain when the star Svati is in the ascendant; then some of
that rain-water must collect in a human skull; then a frog must come there and a snake must
chase it; and as the frog is about to be bitten by the snake, it must jump away and the
poison of the snake must drop into the skull. You must prepare a medicine from this poison
and give it to the patient. Then he will live.' The head of the family consulted the almanac
about the star and set out at the right moment. With great longing of heart he began to
search for the different ingredients. He prayed to God, 'O Lord, I shall succeed only if You
bring together all the ingredients.' As he was roaming about he actually saw a skull lying on
the ground. Presently there came a shower of rain. Then the man exclaimed: 'O gracious
Lord, I have got the rain-water under Svati, and the skull too. What is more, some of the
rain has fallen into the skull. Now be kind enough to bring together the other ingredients.'
He was reflecting with a yearning heart when he saw a poisonous snake approaching. His
joy knew no bounds. He became so excited that he could feel the thumping of his own
heart. 'O God,' he prayed, 'now the snake has come too. I have procured most of the
ingredients. Please be gracious and give me the remaining ones.' No sooner did he pray thus
than a frog hopped up. The snake pursued it. As they came near the skull and the snake was
about to bite the frog, the frog jumped over the skull and the snake's poison fell into it. The
man began to dance, clapping his hands for joy. So I say that one gets everything through
yearning
.


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #460 on: November 15, 2012, 06:11:11 PM »
Friends,
I wish to share this excerpt from 'Spiritual Practice' by Swami ashokananda:

A map of a land is not the land itself. When we philosophize about God, we do not really perceive God. The concept of God is not God Himself. This
distinction has to be clearly borne in mind. We must remember that reason or intellect is concerned with systematizing the knowledge of things, not with perceiving them. But
things must first be perceived. That is essential, we perceive external objects through sense-intuition, and mental objects through mental intuition; and then we systematize
those perceptions, which is an indirect process. Similarly we must perceive the Spirit through spiritual intuition. That is religion. That is spirituality, So intellectualism and
spiritual intuition cannot be identical. They are altogether distinct
. All of us have heard how Sir J.C. Bose has demonstrated that plants have life and sensibilities, Sir J.C. Bose's experiments have given us the intellectual comprehension that plants feel as we feel. But we do not yet perceive them as so feeling. To perceive them as living and feeling we must raise our consciousness to a higher and subtler level. We must acquire super-conscious perception. Otherwise the fact of plants being alive will ever remain with us a matter of intellectual conviction at best. To acquire the intellectual conviction, the manipulation of a few instruments is enough. But in order to perceive the life of plants, to feel plants as endowed with happiness and sorrow, joy and suffering, we have to acquire a new kind of perception. Therein lies a fundamental difference between intellectualism and spirituality.

In order to be religious, what is essential is the development of a new power of perception, whereby we come to know the universe not as material and mental, but as spiritual.
Intellect is not that power. Therefore intellectualism does not help us spiritually. Hence we find that even giants of intellect are sometimes babies spiritually. Intellect is satisfied with the appearances of things. Spirituality penetrates beyond the appearances and reaches the heart of things, which is Divinity. We have said that one fundamental difference between intellect and religion is that the former is concerned with the conception of things and the latter with their perception. But that perception should be not of external aspects but of the very essence, which is always Divine. This, then, is another great difference between intellectualism and spirituality.

A third difference lies in the difference of the personal attitude towards Reality, as implied by intellect and religion. Intellect reduces even a living thing to an idea; religion makes even an idea a living thing. God, to intellect, is a concept; to religion, the soul of one's soul. In religion, we seek to realize Reality which appears to our present experience as a half material, half living universe, as the Eternal Person endowed with infinite consciousness. This differentiates religion essentially from intellectualism.
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We thus see three different evaluations of intellectualism. In the first stage, its culture is positively beneficial as it leads to the refinement of mind. In the second stage, we feel that it does not lead to spiritual knowledge proper, which we have to acquire through quite a different kind of perception, the spiritual intuition or Yoga-shakti. But though we feel the ultimate worthlessness of intellectualism, we still have to cultivate it, until we are engulfed by the overwhelming love of God, in order to be fully convinced of the truth and value of our chosen spiritual ideal so that there may not be any subsequent conflict. In the third stage, our mind has become thoroughly concentrated. We want to realize and love God alone and forget everything else. The world seems trash. Intellectualism is then an obstruction and even painful".

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #461 on: November 16, 2012, 05:58:22 AM »
Spiritual Living is all about Ripening in a spontaneous way-To live life fully and not to insulate oneself from the vicissitudes of life;It is to take on the joy and sorrow with equal abandon.It is not about asserting our individuality but to link it with the whole of Life.
We do not have to abandon our Humanity in order to assert our Divinity.

Namaskar.

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #462 on: November 16, 2012, 06:27:48 AM »
Quote
To attain God a man must have certain favourable conditions: the company of holy men,
discrimination, and the blessings of a real teacher. Perhaps his elder brother takes the
responsibility for the family; perhaps his wife has spiritual qualities and is very virtuous;
perhaps he is not married at all or entangled in worldly life. He succeeds when conditions
like these are fulfilled.

Why is success attributed only to someone who is not married and have no prarabdha? If someone is married, has responsibility to take care, does not have company of holy men (in modern cities) and does not have a real life teacher (in modern fake guru flood), can such a person not succeed?

Sanjay
Salutations to Bhagawan

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #463 on: November 16, 2012, 06:58:48 AM »
Sanjaya,
What Sri Ramakrishna is saying is that all favourable conditions to one's spiritual development are brought about by True Yearning.One needs to have this yearning;if we have this,all odds will turn out favourable by The Grace of God.This is the essence of this saying.One will get satsangha,will be endowed with Vairagya and Viveka,Get the blessings of a Real Teacher;One's family and social circumstances will all become favourable and facilitate the spiritual development of an Earnest Sadhaka.

This is not to be taken to classify what  'Favourable' and 'Unfavourable' means.It is to say that everything will turn out in one's favour if we seek God.

Please go through it and the parable that follows illustrates how all seeming odds are overcome through unceasing yearning for God.If we have Yearning we will not leave any stone unturned in order to be worthy of Divine Grace.We will find that everything turns out 'favourably'.

We may recall how once Kunju Swami decides to leave Asramam and goes out without informing Sri Bhagavan;How he meets with Obstacles and Difficulty on the way;How when he decides to go back to asramam and Sri Bhagavan,everyone comes to his help!

Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #464 on: November 16, 2012, 11:27:53 AM »
Dear Ravi,

Yes. It also happened in the case of Annammalai Swami and N.N. Rajan and one more kitchen worker.

Arunachala Siva.