Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 267738 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2012, 09:08:31 AM »
Nagaraj,
I will respond to your query about Ramakrishna Mutt and Monks briefly.The Motto is Atmano mokshartham jagat hitaya cha,
'For one's own salvation and for the welfare of the world', formulated by Swami Vivekananda.You may read here:
http://www.belurmath.org/Ideology.htm
Those who are inclined towards such ideals and are inspired do join such organizations.There are some Great ones who fit in perfectly.However,my take on this is to steer clear of these organizations;why?For this reason that any Organization cannot avoid structure,Hierarchy with posts like President,Vice-president,Secreatary,etc.The 'World' is very much there and perhaps even more so!I will later on post what Kavi Yogi shuddhananda bharati wrote me;I have to dig out the letter,it is stored somewhere very safe!
The inner renunciation is key and this has always been so.Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of sri Ramakrishna where the Master emphasizes the need for continence.This is true for both Sanyasis and Householders.
Practice of continence
"To be able to realize God, one must practise absolute continence. Sages like Sukadeva are
examples of an urdhvareta. Their chastity was absolutely unbroken. There is another class,
who previously have had discharges of semen but who later on have controlled them. A
man controlling the seminal fluid for twelve years develops a special power. He grows a
new inner nerve called the nerve of memory. Through that nerve he remembers all, he
understands all.
"Loss of semen impairs the strength. But it does not injure one if one loses it in a dream.
That semen one gets from food. What remains after nocturnal discharge is enough. But one
must not know a woman.
"The semen that remains after nocturnal discharge is very 'refined'. The Lahas kept jars of
molasses in their house. Every jar had a hole in it. After a year they found that the molasses
had crystallized like sugar candy. The unnecessary watery part had leaked out through the
hole.
Sannyasi's absolute self-control
"A sannyasi must absolutely renounce woman. You are already involved; but that doesn't
matter.
"A sannyasi must not look even at the picture of a woman. But this is too difficult for an
ordinary man. Sa, re, ga, ma, pa, dha, ni are the seven notes of the scale. It is not possible to
keep your voice on 'ni' a long time.
"To lose semen is extremely harmful for a sannyasi. Therefore he must live so carefully
that he will not have to see the form of a woman. He must keep himself away from a
woman even if she is a devotee of God. It is injurious for him to look even at the picture of
a woman. He will lose semen in a dream, if not in the waking state.
"A sannyasi may have control over his senses, but to set an example to mankind he should
not talk with women. He must not talk to one very long, even if she is a devotee of God. .
"Living as a sannyasi is like observing the ekadasi without drinking even a drop of water.
There are two other ways of observing the day. You may eat fruit or take luchi. and curry.
With the luchi and curry you may also take slices of bread soaked in milk. (All laugh.)
(Smiling) "Absolute fasting is not possible for you.
"Once I saw Krishnakishore eating luchi and curry on an ekadasi day. I said to Hriday,
'Hridu, I want to observe Krishnakishore's ekadasi!' (All laugh.) And so I did one day. I ate
my fill. The next day I had to fast." (Laughter)

The Master is just highlighting the intense and unadulterated renunciation that a sanyasi should practice.In actual Practice,Sanyasis have to live in this world and interact with people,both men and women.Such a 'isolated' existence is no longer possible nor desirable.The key to all this is -inner Renunciation whether it be a snnyasi or householder.
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2012, 10:39:02 AM »
Dear i,

Thank you. Your post is extremely helpful for me.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2012, 11:22:17 AM »
Dear i,

These guidelines are very important for each sadhaka, who is sincerely seeking liberation. Some quick references, that i came about with. Friends kindly suggest any points which may be of importance that can be included in this list.
  • Ahimsa - Non injury thought word and deed
  • Truth at all times
  • Control of Senses through regulation in food and wisdom
  • Avoiding unnecessary desires through proper knowledge and discernment
  • Letting go, magnanimity
  • Overcoming gender differences - by discerning and faith and certain discipline
  • Remain clam at all times to pleasure and pain not get excited at anything
  • Meditation, contemplation, Bhagavath preeti, prayers
  • Fulfill responsibilities rightfully
  • Samatva - Equality and Compassion towards all, humans, animals, plants, and even towards non living things
  • Tapas

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

sanjaya_ganesh

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2012, 11:43:14 AM »
To add to Nagaraj garu's post, JIvanmuktha will exhibit all these qualities, but exhibiting all these does not make you Jivanmuktha :). So it is important when practicing these qualities to clearly know that practicing those is not what is important - else you get stuck in Karma kanda (be it gold chain or iron chain). Gold chain is stronger in fact.
Salutations to Bhagawan

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2012, 12:53:46 PM »
Dear i,

JIvanmuktha will exhibit all these qualities, but exhibiting all these does not make you Jivanmuktha :). So it is important when practicing these qualities to clearly know that practicing those is not what is important - else you get stuck in Karma kanda (be it gold chain or iron chain). Gold chain is stronger in fact.

Now that I have started reading the Gospel :) , here is one very pertinent instruction from the Master:

The "servant I"

MASTER: "It is true that one or two can get rid of the 'I' through samādhi; but these cases are very rare. You may indulge in thousands of reasonings, but still the 'I' comes back. You may cut the peepal-tree to the very root today, but you will notice a sprout springing up tomorrow. Therefore if the 'I' must remain, let the rascal remain as the 'servant I'. As long as you live, you should say, 'O God, Thou art the Master and I am Thy servant.' The 'I' that feels, 'I am the servant of God, I am His devotee' does not injure one. Sweet things cause acidity of the stomach, no doubt, but sugar candy is an exception.

"The path of knowledge is very difficult. One cannot obtain Knowledge unless one gets rid of the feeling that one is the body. In the Kaliyuga the life of man is centred on food. He cannot get rid of the feeling that he is the body and the ego. Therefore the path of devotion is prescribed for this cycle.

This is an easy path. You will attain God if you sing His name and glories and pray to Him with a longing heart. There is not the least doubt about it.

"Suppose you draw a line on the surface of water with a bamboo stick. The water appears to be divided into two parts; but the line doesn't remain for any length of time. The 'servant I'or the 'devotee I' or the 'child I' is only a line drawn with the ego and is not real".



When the arati plate offered to Arunachaleswarar was brought to Bhagavan by Ashram devotees and Sri Bhagavan took a little Vibhuti (holy ashes) and applied it to his forehead, saying in an undertone “Appakku Pillai Adakkam” (The son is beholden to the father). His voice seemed choked with emotion as he spoke. The expression on his face proved the ancient saying “bhakti poornathaya Jnanam” (the culmination of devotion is knowledge).

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2012, 06:24:02 PM »

All spiritual practices are only for chitta suddhi. Self inquiry becomes easy, when chitta suddhi is achieved and mind is in pure
sattva state.

Arunachala Siva.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2012, 09:52:16 PM »
Nagaraj,
Yes ,the checklist that you have mentioned are sine quo non.You have also come out with a wonderful excerpt from The gospel of Sri Ramakrishna.The Gospel is full of such practical advice that all can follow.To read it is to be in the company of the Master.An excerpt:

Saturday, December 6, 1884
Adhar

Adhar, a great devotee of Sri Ramakrishna, lived in Sobha bazar in the northern
section of Calcutta. Almost every day, after finishing his hard work at the office and
returning home in the late afternoon, he paid Sri Ramakrishna a visit. From his home in
Calcutta he would go to Dakshineswar in a hired carriage. His sole delight was to visit the
Master. But he would hear very little of what Sri Ramakrishna said; for, after saluting the
Master and visiting the temples, he would lie down, at the Master's request, on a mat
spread on the floor and would soon fall asleep. At nine or ten o'clock he would be
awakened to return home. However, he considered himself blessed to be able to visit the
God-man of Dakshineswar
. At Adhar's request Sri Ramakrishna often visited his home. His
visits were occasions for religious festivals. Devotees in large numbers would assemble,
and Adhar would feed them sumptuously. One day, while Sri Ramakrishna was visiting his
home, Adhar said to him: "Sir, you haven't come to our house for a long time. The rooms
seemed gloomy; they had a musty smell. But today the whole house is cheerful; the
sweetness of your presence fills the atmosphere. Today I called on God earnestly. I even
shed tears while praying. "Is that so?" the Master said tenderly, casting a kindly glance on
his disciple
.

Namaskar

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2012, 10:05:43 PM »
Dear i,

these small moments of joy fills ones heart completely, no complications, no nothing, just joy...

Today I called on God earnestly. I even shed tears while praying. "Is that so?" the Master said tenderly, casting a kindly glance on his disciple.

When we sit back, and look calmly, is this not what we are all looking for? from exercising all our efforts in various sadhanas. How wonderful. One can experience the brimming joy from within :)

The Glace of master reminded me of this picture of Bhagavan immediately:



Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2012, 10:28:43 PM »
Grace Poured Forth to Kanakamma from Ramana's Look

This incident took place when Bhagavan had moved into the new hall. During those days, the front row closest to Bhagavan was reserved for important people, although Bhagavan did not know about it. There was a specific unspoken seating arrangement and others who occupied those places would even be asked to go and sit elsewhere. On this day, Rani Mazumdar and myself were sitting by the window at the end of the hall when we noticed that the front row was empty. Rani suggested that the two of us could sit there close to Bhagavan. I agreed. The front row would begin at the pillars closest to Bhagavan's couch. No one could sit right beside the couch in order to give people room to move about. On seeing the two of us, a telugu lady called Kameswaramma also came and sat next to us in the front row. The three of us were directly facing Bhagavan.

As soon as we had settled there, Bhagavan began looking directly at me. Unable to bear the intensity of his direct look, I immediately closed my eyes. How long I remained like that I do not know, but sometime later, I opened my eyes and found Bhagavan seated motionless looking at me just as before. Again I closed my eyes. Sometime later, Mauni Srinivasa Rao came with the day's mail. Hearing Bhagavan talk to him, I opened my eyes. However, I was still in the same state that I was in when my eyes were closed and whatever was happening didn't really register in my mind. After attending to the correspondence, Bhagavan got up to leave for the cow shed. I got up along with everybody else but again without any real awareness of my surroundings.

Kameswaramma, who was sitting next to me, hugged me and said, "Kanakamma, you are extremely fortunate. Ever since you sat there, Bhagavan has been steadily looking directly at you up until the Mauni came with the mail. You have got everything. Bhagavan has given you all that you need." So saying, she hugged me close to her. But I was in no state to give a reply. I just told her, "Tears are streaming down my eyes. I don't know what to say." The waves of peace coming over me kept me from talking.

Glance of Guru shakes one to tremble in joy!

(Srimati Kanakamma)

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2012, 08:02:15 AM »
Nagaraj,
wonderful photograph of Sri Bhagavan and story of Kanakamma!This is 'Direct' path for me.No need for any interpretation,no room for the mind.It is the same with The Gospel of sri Ramakrishna-The Master speaks to us directly in everyday language;no technical jargon.Even a child can understand and practice;no need for Swami Vivekananda or anyone else  to come and interpret!Whatever one needs to understand will be revealed directly.We will find the Master saying over and over again:

MASTER: "Is it possible to understand God's action and His motive? He creates, He
preserves, and He destroys. Can we ever understand why He destroys? I say to the Divine
Mother: 'O Mother, I do not need to understand. Please give me love for Thy Lotus Feet.'
The aim of human life is to attain bhakti. As for other things, the Mother knows best. I have
come to the garden to eat mangoes. What is the use of my calculating the number of trees,
branches, and leaves? I only eat the mangoes; I don't need to know the number of trees and
leaves.
"

To read the Gospel is to rid ourselves of all sophistry,all learned ignorance and be a child again,as amritasyaputras.Please find a photograph of the Master in Samadhi ,in Keshab Chandra sen's house in 1879.Holding him from behind is his nephew Hriday.

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2012, 10:32:54 AM »
Dear i,

What thrill and joy would the people around the Master have felt :)

Absolutely, i too, now see, the same, as you see, that there is no need for any interpretation, yes, not even Swami Vivekananda. The same too, with Bhagavan, there is a direct connection between each one of us and the Guru, really no need of any thing in between, no need of ulladu naarpadu, etc... no need of anything, provided one recognises that there is no bridge required between each one of us and Eashwara, Guru, Atma.

What is required before the Sun? when we recognise the massiveness of the Sun? In the presence of sun, small lamps are engulfed by the Sun itself. But, we ignore the Sun while watching the small lamps.

By dropping all our luggage and plans to do this and that in order to see Him, he reveals Himself immediately. This itself is Jnana.

Jnana is truly Bhakti, Bhakti is truly Jnana. Yes, truly, it is all about getting rid of our sophistry. We have to become like the suckling babies. like the monkeys, like Cow Lakshmi, like the Karuppan Dog.

We have to reach out by the heart, From Hridayam to Hridayam as Hridayam, From Heart to Heart as Heart.

Salutations to Bhagavan
« Last Edit: April 20, 2012, 10:35:54 AM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2012, 01:47:47 PM »
Dear Nagaraj, Ravi,

Smt. Kanakammal's  parents took her to Kanchi Mahaswami one day. Kanakamml herself was a great devotee of Kanchi
Mahaswami. The parents told Mahaswami: She wants to live in Tiruvannamalai...We have been telling her to stay if she
wants, in Kanchipuram......

 Mahaswami said: AngeyAna  enna?
IngeyAna enna?

'What if, it is there or here?'

Then He asked Kanakammal:  ekanta vAsamo?  (you are going to live alone?)

                                               swyam pAgamo?  (You are going to cook your food yourself?)

                                               Atma vicharamo?  (Your are going to do atma vichara?)

Kanakammal smiled and said: AmA...AmA...AmA. 

He then smiled and gave prasadam.  Thus Kanakammal came to live in
Tiruvannamalai.

*

I vividly remember Sri Bhagavan's Jayanti Day which fell on 01.01.2010. The crowds were swelling. Abhishekam and
alankaram were going on. Kanakammal had come in a car from rear gate.  She came and when the crowd made way
for her, she came close to Sri Ramneswara Maha Lingam and prostrated to Him. She never got up again.

What a glorious affirmation of Sri Bhagavan's Grace to take Kanakammal to His golden feet on that chosen day.

My wife and I remained there spell bound.

Arunachala Siva.

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2012, 04:13:25 PM »
Dear i,

very moving experience. When we look at devotees such as Kanakamaal, it really makes us very humble. It awakens us, in a way, that, we still have a long way to go. Such a great soul was Kanakammal. After this incident, when i got opportunity to visit Arunachala, i recollected your narration and went through the experience at the Samadhi Hall. It felt, so blessed...

reading the memories of devotees such as Kanakammal, Muruganar, TKS, Devaraja Mudaliyar, Suri Nagamma, and so many others, how much gratitude we show to them, would still be lesser, for the kind of treasures that they have left behind - memories of Bhagavan. Similarly, with Sri Ramakrishnar as well,  'M' Mahendranath Gupta - what kind of treasures, we have today in our hands.

This is enough, this is enough... to pass our life.

Salutations to Bhagavan
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Hari

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2012, 06:45:58 PM »
Sri Ravi, what is Sri Ramakrishna's view on what happens to the soul after death? Many things are said about it. I want to know and His statement.
Web Page dedicated to the Great Sages:
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Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2012, 06:48:10 PM »
The Story Of Sri Ramakrishna continued....
The Bhairavi Brahmani
There came to Dakshineswar at this time a brahmin woman who was to play an important
part in Sri Ramakrishna's spiritual unfoldment. Born in East Bengal, she was an adept in the
Tantrik and Vaishnava methods of worship. She was slightly over fifty years of age,
handsome, and garbed in the orange robe of a nun. Her sole possessions were a few books
and two pieces of wearing-cloth.
Sri Ramakrishna welcomed the visitor with great respect, described to her his experiences
and visions, and told her of people's belief that these were symptoms of madness. She
listened to him attentively and said: "My son, everyone in this world is mad. Some are mad
for money, some for creature comforts, some for name and fame; and you are mad for
God." She assured him that he was passing through the almost unknown spiritual
experience described in the scriptures as mahabhava, the most exalted rapture of divine
love. She told him that this extreme exaltation had been described as manifesting itself
through nineteen physical symptoms, including the shedding of tears, a tremor of the body,
horripilation, perspiration, and a burning sensation. The Bhakti scriptures, she declared, had
recorded only two instances of the experience, namely, those of Sri Radha and Sri
Chaitanya.
Very soon a tender relationship sprang up between Sri Ramakrishna and the Brahmani, she
looking upon him as the Baby Krishna, and he upon her as mother. Day after day, she
watched his ecstasy during the kirtan and meditation, his samadhi, his mad yearning; and
she recognized in him a power to transmit spirituality to others. She came to the conclusion
that such things were not possible for an ordinary devotee, not even for a highly developed
soul. Only an Incarnation of God was capable of such spiritual manifestations. She
proclaimed openly that Sri Ramakrishna, like Sri Chaitanya, was an Incarnation of God.
When Sri Ramakrishna told Mathur what the Brahmani had said about him, Mathur shook
his head in doubt. He was reluctant to accept him as an Incarnation of God, an Avatar
comparable to Rama, Krishna, Buddha, and Chaitanya, though he admitted Sri
Ramakrishna's extraordinary spirituality. Whereupon the Brahmani asked Mathur to
arrange a conference of scholars who should discuss the matter with her. He agreed to the
proposal and the meeting was arranged. It was to be held in the natmandir in front of the
Kali temple.
Two famous pundits of the time were invited: Vaishnavcharan, the leader of the Vaishnava
society, and Gauri. The first to arrive was Vaishnavcharan, with a distinguished company
of scholars and devotees. The Brahmani, like a proud mother, proclaimed her view before
him and supported it with quotations from the scriptures. As the pundits discussed the deep
theological question, Sri Ramakrishna, perfectly indifferent to everything happening around
him, sat in their midst like a child, immersed in his own thoughts, sometimes smiling,
sometimes chewing a pinch of spices from a pouch, or again saying to Vaishnavcharan with
a nudge: "Look here. Sometimes I feel like this, too." Presently Vaishnavcharan arose to
declare himself in total agreement with the view of the Brahmani. He declared that Sri
Ramakrishna had undoubtedly experienced mahabhava and that this was the certain sign of
the rare manifestation of God in a man. The people assembled there, especially the officers
of the temple garden, were struck dumb. Sri Ramakrishna said to Mathur, like a boy: "Just
fancy, he too says so! Well, I am glad to learn that after all it is not a disease."
When, a few days later, Pundit Gauri arrived, another meeting was held, and he agreed with
the view of the Brahmani and Vaishnavcharan. To Sri Ramakrishna's remark that
Vaishnavcharan had declared him to be an Avatar, Gauri replied: "Is that all he has to say
about you? Then he has said very little. I am fully convinced that you are that Mine of
Spiritual Power, only a small fraction of which descends on earth, from time to time, in the
form of an Incarnation."
"Ah!" said Sri Ramakrishna with a smile, "you seem to have quite outbid Vaishnavcharan
in this matter. What have you found in me that makes you entertain such an idea?"
Gauri said: "I feel it in my heart and I have the scriptures on my side. I am ready to prove it
to anyone who challenges me."
"Well," Sri Ramakrishna said, "it is you who say so; but, believe me, I know nothing about
it."

To be continued....