Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 315060 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #405 on: November 06, 2012, 04:26:10 PM »
Udai,
Here is an excerpt from Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:

17th September, 1938 Talk 515.

D.: In the explanation given yesterday, it is said that the removal of avarana results in the annihilation of the karana sarira. That is
clear. But how is the gross body considered to fall off too?

M.: The vasanas are of two kinds: bandha hetu (causing bondage) and bhoga hetu (only giving enjoyment). The Jnani has transcended the
ego and therefore all the causes of bondage are inoperative. Bandha hetu is thus at an end and prarabdha (past karma) remains as bhoga
vasana (to give enjoyment) only. Therefore it was said that the sukshma sarira alone survives jnana. Kaivalya says that sanchita Karma (stored
Karma) is at an end simultaneously with the rise of jnana; that agami (Karma now collecting) is no longer operative owing to the absence
of the sense of bondage, and that prarabdha will be exhausted by enjoyment (bhoga) only. Thus the last one will end in course of time
and then the gross body also falls away with it.

Sarira traya (the three bodies) and Karma traya (the three Karmas) are mere phrases meant for the delectation of debaters. A Jnani is
not affected by any of them
.

An aspirant is instructed to find who he is. If he does so, he will take no interest in discussing such matters as the above. Find the
Self and rest in Peace."

Namaskar.

cefnbrithdir

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #406 on: November 06, 2012, 05:15:38 PM »
Udai,
Here is an excerpt from Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi:

17th September, 1938 Talk 515.

An aspirant is instructed to find who he is. If he does so, he will take no interest in discussing such matters as the above. Find the
Self and rest in Peace."

Namaskar.

Dear Ravi

Thank you for this. It was just what I wanted to hear after dipping into a 2008 David Godman blog on a discourse by  Robert Adams. His Foundation have also  recently sent his University Discourses - the second chapters is  all about "akashic records".

Why is this the way to teach aspirants ? Are not these matters for us  just (unreal) distractions and (unreal) objects in the same way that any other externality that takes away our vichara or bhakti might be ?
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 05:19:09 PM by cefnbrithdir »

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #407 on: November 06, 2012, 05:33:50 PM »
Dear cenfbrithdir,

Yes. A discussions on matters of spirituality, not taking us to the Truth are only exercise in futility. The best way is
to remain Summa always trying to quell the mind inwards in the Self. Certain clarifications to the beginners  in the Forum
may be of some help to them. Otherwise it is not empty logic, ratiocination and lingual diarrohea.

Arunachala Siva.   

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #408 on: November 06, 2012, 05:38:11 PM »
It is not empty logic - should read as "it is empty logic."

Arunachala Siva.   

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #409 on: November 06, 2012, 06:18:01 PM »
udai,
"so body is sustained as long as the person lives"

It is said that the jnAni's body is like the Garland on a cow;The cow is just not conscious whether it is there or fallen away.

As long as we are Required to take care of the Body,there is obligation.In order to take care of the Body,we are earning money.This is the dependency and as long as this is there, we are not free.We may say that we are aspiring for freedom.

It is true that through external activities one may not be able to ascertain the state of JnAna;yet there is no other way to test oneself if one is truly free;One may well be imagining oneself as having 'Knowledge' and consider oneself Free.

Yet one may find that one's freedom depends on a thousand things that one may not be conscious of!One has to examine the sense of 'mine' or possession;whether one is an unconscious slave to this?

Namaskar.





Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #410 on: November 06, 2012, 06:29:08 PM »
Dear Tusnim,

' Garland on a cow' simile was told by Sri Sankara and also Sri  Bhagavan.

Vivekachudamani says a Jnani does not bother how his body falls. It is like a ripe leaf in a tree. It may fall near Siva
temple, or under the tree or on the river beside. What does he care for his body? What is important for him is the
Self Realization.

One interesting thing about Sri Ramana shedding his moral coil is -  a shooting star moved skywards at that moment
and perched into the summit of Arunachala. This was seen even by people who were in Mumbai, Chennai and Patna.
This is something unparalleled in history about a Brahma Jnani shedding his mortal coil.

Arunachala Siva.   

Arunachala Siva.


ramana_maharshi

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #411 on: November 06, 2012, 06:33:27 PM »
Dear all,

But we also found out that jnanis were not able to come out of their tradition they were raised?

Why is it so? Are they conscious or unconscious while following their raised tradition or surroundings?

Example again like sri ramakrishna followed bengal tradition and ate fish etc...

I believe even jnani's fall under bhoga hetu vasanas and they are not beyond them.

As known bhoga hetu vasanas is not a issue.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #412 on: November 06, 2012, 06:34:28 PM »
udai,
I would rather wish to see our material possessions treated like that! :)
'Thoughts' are Free!It is easy to dismiss them. :)

Here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:

Master's renunciation

Master:"Well, what do you think of this? When I touch a coin my hand gets twisted; my breathing stops. Further, if tie a knot in the corner of my cloth, I cannot breathe. My breathing stops until the knot is untied."

The Master asked a devotee to bring a rupee. When Sri Ramakrishna held it in his hand, the hand began to writhe with pain. The Master's breathing also stopped. After the coin had been taken away, he breathed deeply three times and his hand relaxed. The doctor became speechless with wonder to see this strange phenomenon.

The doctor said to M., "Action on the nerves."

MASTER (to the doctor): "I get into another state of mind. It is impossible for me to lay up anything. One day I visited Sambhu Mallick's garden house. At that time I had been
suffering badly from stomach trouble. Sambhu said to me: Take a grain of opium now and then. It will help you.' He tied a little opium in a corner of my cloth. As I was returning to the Kali temple, I began to wander about near the gate as if unable to find the way. Then I threw the opium away and at once regained my normal state. I returned to the templegarden.

"One day at Kamarpukur I picked some mangoes. I was carrying them home. But I could not walk; I had to stay standing in one place. Then I left the mangoes in a hollow. Only
after that could I return home. Well, how do you explain that?"

DOCTOR: "There is a force behind it. Will-force."

M: "He [meaning the Master] says that it is God-force. You say that it is will-force."

The jnAni does not take care of his body!It is taken care of.Are we in such a position,like a dry leaf blown by the wind?

Namaskar.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2012, 06:39:06 PM by Ravi.N »

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #413 on: November 06, 2012, 08:16:52 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi, I cannot thank You enough for the Beautiful,Beautiful story about Sri Ramakrishna,and His behaviour and look. Truly,i have now much better impression of Him. And that mean alot to me! Thank You Very much for the link too! With love and prayers,

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #414 on: November 07, 2012, 06:02:47 AM »
Jewell,
I am quite happy that you found the story of Sri Ramakrishna's pictures interesting and rewarding.Rakhal Maharaj(Swami Brahmananda,spiritual son of Sri Ramakrishna)was a Great soul and his teachings are very useful for all aspirants.His life and teachings are published in book form,called 'Eternal Companion'(So called because Rakhal Maharaj was identified by Sri Ramakrishna as a companion of Lord Sri Krishna in his former incarnation!).You may find this book online:
http://www.rkmfiji.org/node/58
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #415 on: November 07, 2012, 06:15:40 AM »
Friends,
I wish to share the Introduction from 'Eternal companion'(Life and Teachings of Rakhal Maharaj,Spiritual son of Sri Ramakrishna) as it will adress most of what we have been discussing here:

The Eternal Companion:Life and Teachings of Swami Brahmananda

To write the biography of an illumined soul is very difficult, if not impossible; for his is pre-eminently an inner life. True, he may engage in certain activities; he may achieve the kind of success which impresses the outer world; but all these activities and achievements- including even his spoken and written teachings- will fall far short of, and fail to express, the real man.
 
An ordinary professor or scholar teaches out of his accumulated learning. Such a man’s scholarship is far greater than the man himself. That is to say, he may teach the loftiest truths, theoretically, without having made them a part of his own life and experience. A man of spiritual wisdom also teaches these truths, not theoretically, but out of his own experience. Nevertheless, the expression of these truths in words cannot possibly correspond to the vastness of his inner knowledge, which is inexpressible because it is transcendental. We know a man with our mind and senses; but our mind and senses cannot reveal to us the nature of an illumined soul. In order to be able fully to understand such a soul a man must himself be illumined.
 
When you go into the presence of one of these great beings, something very wonderful happens. His mere presence gives you, as it were, a supersense which enables you to recognize the greatness which is in him. Maharaj (as Swami Brahmananda was called) used to give us that supersense whenever we were with him. Our minds were lifted up and caught glimpses of his inner nature. But these glimpses were only partial. We were aware that the other disciples of Sri Ramakrishna, who were themselves illumined souls, could see more in Maharaj than we, his disciples, ever saw. Swami Ramakrishananda, founder and head of the Ramakrishna Math in Madras, once introduced Maharaj to the devotees there, saying: ‘None of you have seen Sri Ramakrishna himself; but now you see Maharaj, and that is the same thing.’
 
On another occasion a devotee brought fruit which he wanted to offer to Sri Ramakrishna in the shrine. Swami Ramakrishnananda told him to offer it to Maharaj and said: ‘To offer this fruit to Maharaj is as good as offering it to Sri Ramakrishna.’

One day I hesitated to accept something that Maharaj told me. Swami Shivananda was present at the time, and he agreed with Maharaj immediately. I did not like this. Later I talked to Swami Shivananda alone and more or less accused him of being a ‘yes-man’ to Maharaj. Swami Shivananda laughed and said: ‘My boy, you see in Maharaj only Maharaj; but we see the external form of Maharaj with nothing inside it but God. Whatever Maharaj tells you comes directly from God.’
 
It should be remembered that this statement was not made by a mere ignorant enthusiast but by one who was himself an illumined soul. Its truth was not clear to me at the time, but later I began to understand and believe it because of a talk which I had with Maharaj himself. One day he asked me to look at the almanac and find an auspicious date for his departure from Madras. As I did so, I could not help smiling. Maharaj noticed this and asked me why I was amused. I replied: ‘Well, Maharaj, you always go through this routine whenever you plan to go anywhere, but then you suddenly make up your mind to leave on some other day.’
 
At this Maharaj said: ‘Do you think I do anything according to my own will? The devotees insist upon fixing some date for my going, so to avoid constant pestering I fix a tentative date. But I do not move or do anything until I know the will of God.’
 
‘Do you mean to say,’ I asked, ‘that you are always guided by the will of God?’
 
Maharaj: ‘Yes’.
 
Myself: ‘Well, Maharaj, I too may think or feel that I am doing the will of God, when actually I am only following my own inclinations and attributing them to God’s will. Isn’t that what you do?’
 
Maharaj: ‘No my child, it is not the same.’
 
Myself: ‘Then do you mean to say that you actually see God and talk to Him directly and know His will?’
 
Maharaj: ‘Yes, I wait until I know His will directly and He tells me what I do.’
 
Myself: ‘For everything you do?’
 
Maharaj: ‘Yes for everything I do have the direct guidance of God’.
 
Myself: ‘And do you accept only those disciples He wants you to accept?’
 
Maharaj: ‘Yes’.

continued....

« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 06:47:02 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #416 on: November 07, 2012, 06:19:55 AM »
The Eternal Companion:Life and Teachings of Swami Brahmananda continued....

After this talk with him, I began to find some meaning in his peculiar way of acting. For example, whenever any of us asked his advice, he would say: ‘Wait. My brain is not working today or my stomach is upset I will answer you tomorrow’. Sometimes, many tomorrows would pass before we got any definite answer. But when Maharaj did finally speak, there was always a special power behind his words.
 
‘How does he know the will of God? Does he go into Samadhi every time before he knows it?’ This was the thought that continually crossed my mind. But not daring to ask him, I waited, hoping somehow to get an answer. Then, one day, I was discussing with another disciple the spiritual visions of ‘Gopal’s Mother’, a women disciple of Sri Ramakrishna. She had been given this name because she used to see Gopal, the boy Krishna, playing with her, walking beside her and calling her ‘Mother’. I expressed my opinion that these visions of ‘Gopal’s Mother’ belong to the transcendental plane and that I did not believe she had actually seen Sri Krishna with her physical eyes. Maharaj, who was sitting in his room, overheard me. He came out and said rather sarcastically: ‘Ah! So you are omniscient!’
 
But Maharaj, I asked, ‘How can one see God in the external world with physical eyes?’
 
Maharaj simply made this statement in English: ‘Show me the line of demarcation where matter ends and spirit begins.’
 
In other words, I understood him to say, when eye of the spirit opens, one sees Brahman everywhere.

The following teachings of Shankara in his Vivekachudamani elucidate the above remark of Maharaj:
 
Our perception of the Universe is a continuous perception of Brahman, though the ignorant man is not aware of this. Indeed, this universe is nothing but Brahman. See Brahman everywhere, under all circumstances, with the eye of the spirit and a tranquil heart. How can the physical eyes see anything but physical objects? How can the mind of the enlightened man think of anything other than the Reality?

In the Upanishads we read that ‘a knower of Brahman becomes Brahman’. What is it that attracts people to a man of God? Young and old, boys and girls, men, women and children, saints and sinners-all felt an indefinable attraction to Maharaj, even if they did not in the least understand what was meant by ‘a knower of Brahman’

continued....


« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 06:47:19 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #417 on: November 07, 2012, 06:40:10 AM »
The Eternal Companion:Life and Teachings of Swami Brahmananda continued....

When I first met Maharaj I was a boy of eighteen. I did not know anything about God or the realization of God, yet I felt drawn to him as to a long-lost friend who was very near and dear to me. I had never felt such a love before in my life: it was the love of parents and the love of a friend, all in one. Every one had the same experience. Once I asked Swami Subodhananda, another disciple of Sri Ramakrishna, the reason for this all-satisfying love which emanated from Maharaj. The Swami replied: ‘God is love. Maharaj has realized God. Therefore he is full of love’.
 
You did not have to be pure-hearted or spiritually-minded to love Maharaj. Even the most depraved natures felt this love when they came into his presence and many of them were transformed into saints. Maharaj did not talk to everybody about God or spiritual matters or philosophical truths; he would come down, as it were to the level of each individual; he became that person. He had the power of uplift a man without the man’s even knowing it; and when that person left his presence he was bathed in love and purity. When you were in the presence of Maharaj you completely forgot yourself. You felt you were in another world where there was no worry or grief, and where man was not man, but divine. You were filled with a strange joy which you could neither explain nor understand.
 
Maharaj’s bearing was stately and regal. He was tall and well-built and his was serene and joyful. His eyes were deep and seemed always to be gazing into the infinite. Whenever he looked at you, you felt that he was probing the depths of your innermost nature and that he knew all your weakness and failing. But somehow you did not mind this full knowledge because those eyes were so full of mercy and love. We never feared to be known by him. Then there were other times when, though his eyes were wide open, it seemed as if the universe no longer existed for him; he seemed to be living in a different world altogether.

His hands and feet were beautifully formed and they possessed a peculiar attraction. His back strikingly resembled the back of Sri Ramakrishna. Swami Turiyananda once told me how, many years after passing away of Sri Ramakrishna, he saw Maharaj from behind, walking in the grounds of the Belur Math and mistook him for Sri Ramakrishna himself.
 
Once in a crowded railway station I overheard a man who had been observing Maharaj, exclaim to a friend: ‘Look at that man! What part of India does he come from? He isn’t like a Madrasi, or a Parsi, or a Bengali, or a Punjabi. Can you guess his nationality?’ And the other answered: ‘No I can’t. But you can see very well that he is a man of God.

Rakhal maharaj was truly a spiritual Dynamo.I wish to share this point here;I have met many Great ones like kAnchi MahasWami,Sri Anandamoyi ma,Mataji Krishnabia,sant Gulab singh,Sri Radha baba,Yogi Shuddhananda Bharati,Sri Annamalai swami,and among the ones who are living now TGN,Mata Amritananda Mayi,Sri Nochur Venkatraman.They have a subtle presence that is their voice and teaching!I have ,ofcourse come across other swamijis and teachers of Traditional Vedanta,and they are quite intelligent and learned and are carrying on some Good work.Everyone has a place in this world of ours.Some of them have setup schools where they  teach classical Works of Vedanta,and  churn out students who in turn become teachers,and give talks.There is nothing these persons do not know.For every question,they have a ready answer and are absolutely sure what it is.Only it is rare to find someone who is concerned whether the Listener understood,whether his inner need was met.It is this that distinguishes a Self Realized Master from a conventional Teacher.
Namaskar.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 06:47:35 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #418 on: November 07, 2012, 06:55:05 AM »
cefnbrithdir,

Yes,I agree with you;it is just not necessary to fill our minds with all unnecessary learnings.Sri Ramakrishna used to say:

"What need is there of your counting the number of trees and branches in an orchard? You have come to the orchard to eat mangoes. Do that and be happy. The aim of
human birth is to love God. Realize that love and be at peace".

Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #419 on: November 07, 2012, 10:35:00 AM »
udai,
You may have heard about Krishnakishore,featured in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna.Here is the story:

"Once Krishnakishore asked me, 'Why have you cast off the sacred thread?' In those days of God-vision I felt as if I were passing through the great storm of Aswin, and everything had blown away from me. No trace of my old self was left. I lost all consciousness of the world. I could hardly keep my cloth on my body, not to speak of the sacred thread! I said to Krishnakishore, 'Ah, you will understand if you ever happen to be as intoxicated with God
as I was.'

"And it actually came to pass. He too passed through a God-intoxicated state, when he would repeat only the word 'Om' and shut himself up alone in his room. His relatives
thought he was actually mad, and called in a physician. Ram Kaviraj of Natagore came to see him. Krishnakishore said to the physician, 'Cure me, sir, of my malady, if you please,but not of my Om.' (All laugh.)

"One day I went to see him and found him in a pensive mood. When I asked him about it,he said: 'The tax-collector was here. He threatened to dispose of my brass pots, my cups, and my few utensils, if I didn't pay the tax; so I am worried.' I said: 'But why should you worry about it? Let him take away your pots and pans. Let him arrest your body even. How will that affect you? For your nature is that of Kha!' (Narendra and the others laugh.)

He used to say to me that he was the Spirit, all-pervading as the sky. He had got that idea from the Adhyatma Ramayana. I used to tease him now and then, addressing him as 'Kha'.Therefore I said to him that day, with a smile: 'You are Kha. Taxes cannot move you!'

All that I meant is to see whether "taxes" can affect the "Kha" :)
There is no other way;nAnya pantha ayanAya vidyatey!
Namaskar.