Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 283934 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #345 on: October 27, 2012, 06:38:14 PM »
Anil,
Yes,thanks very much.The sense of 'I' and 'Mine' and its limitations and Shrinking is wonderfully brought out in thAyumAnavar's paripooranAnandam verse 7:

அந்தகா ரத்தையோர் அகமாக்கி மின்போல்என்
      அறிவைச் சுருக்கினவரார்
    அவ்வறிவு தானுமே பற்றினது பற்றாய்
      அழுந்தவுந் தலைமீதிலே
சொந்தமா யெழுதப் படித்தார் மெய்ஞ்ஞான
      சுகநிட்டை சேராமலே
   சோற்றுத் துருத்தியைச் சதமெனவும் உண்டுண்டு
      தூங்கவைத் தவரார்கொலொ
தந்தைதாய் முதலான அகிலப்ர பஞ்சந்
      தனைத்தந்த தெனதாசையோ
   தன்னையே நோவனொ பிறரையே நோவனோ
      தற்கால மதைநோவனோ
பந்தமா னதுதந்த வினையையே நோவனோ
      பரமார்த்தம் ஏதுமறியேன்
    பார்க்குமிடமெங்குமொரு நீக்கமற நிறைகின்ற
       பரிபூர ணானந்தமே.

Who was it that converted my heart
Into a chamber of darkness
And then shrink my consciousness
Into a tiny spark
And attaching( identifying )with that consciousness ,as attachment
Who was it that decreed that
As the writing of fate on my head?
Who was it that
Without caring for attainment of Jnana-Bliss-Trance
Made me believe in the permanency of the body bag
And so to indulge in eating and sleeping?

Was it my desire that gave me my father, mother
And all the rest of worldly ties?
Shall I blame myself, or others?
Shall I blame the present bad actions
Or the past karma for all this worldly bondage?
Forsooth I know nothing of Truth
Oh! Thou who filleth all visible space
In unbroken continuity!
Thou, the Bliss that is Perfect Full!

The Very Mumukshutva ,the Burning desire for Freedom comes out of a sense of this constriction.It is only those who intensely feel the Bondage who truly aspire for freedom;it is only they who appreciate what it is to be free.To prematurely assume that 'one is free' or that all this is 'Mitya' and there is nothing to be attained ,may be very gratifying,yet this will only smother Mumukshutva.Herein lies the Danger of Reading such books like ashtavakra Gita and the likes of it.This is the reason that either self-enquiry or Self-surrender is advocated by the Great ones.It needs to be done until one realizes that one is the Whole,undifferentiated and pure awareness.Then ,as Sri Ramakrishna says:
 "The jnani gives up his identification with worldly things, discriminating, 'Not this, not
this'. Only then can he realize Brahman. It is like reaching the roof of a house by leaving
the steps behind, one by one. But the vijnani, who is more intimately acquainted with
Brahman, realizes something more. He realizes that the steps are made of the same
materials as the roof: bricks, lime, and brick-dust.
That which is realized intuitively as
Brahman, through the eliminating process of 'Not this, not this', is then found to have
become the universe and all its living beings. The vijnani sees that the Reality which is
nirguna, without attributes, is also saguna, with attributes
.

This means that thoughts ,words,actions all are just a play of that one undivided awareness.They will not be viewed as 'Vasanas' with the expectation that they will 'Exhaust' themselves,and until then 'one' just stays apart from the 'Thoughts' ,etc.There is simply not even the 'One'!Just the Integral whole,paripooranAnandam as thAyumAnavr calls it.

Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #346 on: October 27, 2012, 06:43:34 PM »
Sri Ravi,

tAyumAnavar expressions seems to me to be the most genuine and honest expressions bereft any poetic exaggeration. They are simply matter of fact, as it is. They seldom take the reader, a ride to some exotic imaginations.

« Last Edit: October 27, 2012, 06:45:06 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #347 on: October 27, 2012, 06:54:10 PM »
Dear Ravi,

Here is where in Tejomayanadam Verse 4, the saint poet says about his ever oscillating mind, which can be quelled
only by the Grace of Guru, who is staying within as Knowledge. 


ஆடாமல் ஓய்ந்திட்ட பம்பரம் போல்விசை
      அடங்கி மனம்வீழநேரே
   அறியாமை யாகின்ற இருளகல இருளளியும்
      அல்லா திருந்தவெளிபோல்
கோடா தெனைக்கண் டெனக்குள்நிறை சாந்தவெளி
      கூடிஇன் பாதீதமுங்
   கூடினே னோசரியை கிரியையில் முயன்றுநெறி
      கூடினே னோஅல்லன்யான்
ஈடாக வேயாறு வீட்டினில் நிரம்பியே
      இலகிவளர் பிராணனென்னும்
   இருநிதி யினைக்கட்டி யோகபர னாகாமல்
      ஏழைக் குடும்பனாகித்
தேடா தழிக்கவொரு மதிவந்த தென்கோலோ
      தேடரிய சத்தாகிஎன்
   சித்தமிசை குடிகொண்ட அறிவான தெய்வமே
      தேசோ மயானந்தமே. 4.

Arunachala Siva.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #348 on: October 27, 2012, 07:41:01 PM »
Friends,
We continue our exploration into what Sri Ramakrishna had to say about the Reading of Ashtavakra Gita and Yoga Vasishta.Although Sri Ramakrishna himself had not read these Books,he has heard the contents from Different sources and was quite familiar with the contents.He judiciously mentioned  the books to only those aspirants whom he deemed fit to be introduced to the seed thoughts in those books.Ofcourse,he never advocated that one should 'Meditate' on the teachings in those books.They are more to be referred as 'Road Maps' on the way.
In the Following excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna ,he is referring to Yoga Vasishta to 'M'.We may also see that 'M' is a Ripe sadhaka,who already had experienced SamAdhi;we need to be aware of this state of 'M' when we read this conversation:

Wednesday, December 19, 1883
It was nine o'clock in the morning. Sri Ramakrishna was talking to M. near the bel-tree at
Dakshineswar. This tree, under which the Master had practised the most austere sadhana,
stood in the northern end of the temple garden. Farther north ran a high wall, and just
outside was the government magazine. West of the bel-tree was a row of tall pines that
rustled in the wind. Below the trees flowed the Ganges, and to the south could be seen the
sacred grove of the Panchavati. The dense trees and underbrush hid the temples. No noise
of the outside world reached the bel-tree.

MASTER (to M.): "But one cannot realize God without renouncing 'woman and gold'."

M: "Why? Did not Vasishtha say to Rama, 'O Rama, You may renounce the world if the
world is outside God'?"

MASTER (smiling): "He said that to Rama so that Rama might destroy Ravana. Rama
accepted the life of a householder and married to fulfil that mission."

M. stood there like a log, stunned and speechless.

Sri Ramakrishna went to the Panchavati on his way back to his room. M. accompanied him.
It was then about ten o'clock.

Path of the Impersonal God
M: "Sir, is there no spiritual discipline leading to realization of the Impersonal God?"

MASTER: "Yes, there is. But the path is extremely difficult. After intense austerities the
rishis of olden times realized God as their inner most consciousness and experienced the
real nature of Brahman. But how hard they had to work! They went out of their dwellings
in the early morning and all day practised austerities and meditation. Returning home at
nightfall, they took a light supper of fruit and roots.

"But an aspirant cannot succeed in this form of spiritual discipline if his mind is stained
with worldliness even in the slightest degree. The mind must withdraw totally from all
objects of form, taste, smell, touch, and sound
. Only thus does it become pure. The Pure
Mind is the same as the Pure Atman. But such a mind must be altogether free from 'woman
and gold'. When it becomes pure, one has another experience. One realizes: 'God alone is
the Doer, and I am His instrument.' One does not feel oneself to be absolutely necessary to
others either in their misery or in their happiness
.

"Once a wicked man beat into unconsciousness a monk who lived in a monastery. On
regaining consciousness he was asked by his friends, 'Who is feeding you milk?' The monk
said, 'He who beat me is now feeding me.' "

M: "Yes, sir. I know that story."

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #349 on: October 27, 2012, 07:47:37 PM »
The Excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued....

Obstacles to samadhi

MASTER: "It is not enough to know it. One must assimilate its meaning. It is the thought
of worldly objects that prevents the mind from going into samadhi. One becomes
established in samadhi when one is completely rid of worldliness. It is possible for me to
give up the body in samadhi
; but I have a slight desire to enjoy the love of God and the
company of His devotees. Therefore I pay a little attention to my body
.
"There is another kind of samadhi, called unmana samadhi. One attains it by suddenly
gathering the dispersed mind
. You understand what that is, don't you?"

M: "Yes, sir."

MASTER: "Yes. It is the sudden withdrawal of the dispersed mind to the Ideal. But that
samadhi does not last long. Worldly thoughts intrude and destroy it. The yogi slips down
from his yoga.

"At Kamarpukur I have seen the mongoose living in its hole up in the wall. It feels snug
there. Sometimes people tie a brick to its tail; then the pull of the brick makes it come out
of its hole. Every time the mongoose tries to be comfortable inside the hole, it has to come
out because of the pull of the brick. Such is the effect of brooding on worldly objects that it
makes the yogi stray from the path of yoga.

"Worldly people may now and then experience samadhi. The lotus blooms, no doubt, when
the sun is up; but its petals close again when the sun is covered by a cloud. Worldly thought
is the cloud."

M: "Isn't it possible to develop both jnana and bhakti by the practice of spiritual
discipline?"


MASTER: "Through the path of bhakti a man may attain them both. If it is necessary, God
gives him the Knowledge of Brahman. But a highly qualified aspirant may develop both
jnana and bhakti at the same time. Such is the case with the Isvarakotis-Chaitanya for
example. But the case of ordinary devotees is different.

"There are five kinds of light: the light of a lamp, the light of various kinds of fire, the light
of the moon, the light of the sun, and lastly the combined light of the sun and the moon.
Bhakti is the light of the moon, and jnana the light of the sun
.

"Sometimes it is seen that the sun has hardly set when the moon rises in the sky. In an
Incarnation of God one sees, at the same time, the sun of Knowledge and the moon of
Love.

"Can everyone, by the mere wish, develop Knowledge and Love at the same time? It
depends on the person. One bamboo is more hollow than another. Is it possible for all to
comprehend the nature of God? Can a one seer pot hold five seers of milk?"

M: "But what about the grace of God? Through His grace a camel can pass through the eye
of a needle."

MASTER: "But is it possible to obtain God's grace just like that? A beggar may get a
penny, if he asks for it. But suppose he asks you right off for his train fare: How about
that?"

M. stood silent. The Master, too, remained silent. Suddenly he said: "Yes, it is true.
Through the grace of God some may get both jnana and bhakti."

M. saluted the Master and went back to the bel-tree.

continued....

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #350 on: October 28, 2012, 07:45:27 AM »
Quote
conventional Advaita teachers generally dont teach YV and AG because they teach to a gathering. These texts are best taught to students on individual basis. E

Ok Tushnim , Got it i.e the difference between Gathering and Individual  .Thanks for ur reply .
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #351 on: October 28, 2012, 07:55:02 AM »
Udai/Atmavichar/Friends,
It is atmavichar who raised the question as to why Yoga vasishta and Ashtavakra Gita are not taught by teachers.
Master TGN has given talks on Yoga VAsishta.His view is that most of the Swamijis teaching Advaita vedanta are unconscious Male chauvinists!In works like Yoga Vasishta and Tripura Rahasyam,there are stories of women are teaching jnAna to men,and this is not acceptable to thes teachers!They teach Atma Bodha ,vivekachudAmani,aparoksha Anubhuti and other such advaitic texts but not yoga-vasishta and Tripura Rahasyam.
Whether we accept what master TGN says or not,it does stir our thought and attention to such a possibility.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #352 on: October 28, 2012, 08:18:06 AM »
Friends,
I will now go on to present what Sri Ramakrishna has presented as a seed thought:

Quote
"Your bhava is that of Prahlada — ‘I am That’ and ‘I am God’s servant.’

If we are familiar with Sri Aurobindo's terminology,these two represent two aspects-Realization of the Impersonal Self and  the Psychic being with its adoration of the personal God or Saguna Brahman.Advaita Vedantins view that the latter is only a preparation for the Former.Sri Ramakrishna's Guru Totapuri belonged to this school of Thought until he learnt the significance of the Saguna Aspect,kAli .I have already posted this in this thread.I will be posting Sri Ramakrishna's teaching on this Dual aspect of the Divine and what it means to seekers.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #353 on: October 29, 2012, 10:35:17 AM »
Friends,
In continuation of the Discussion on jAnAna and Bhakti,here is an excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Characteristics of divine love

"There are two elements in this ecstatic love: 'I-ness' and 'my-ness'. Yasoda used to think:
'Who would look after Gopala if I did not? He will fall ill if I do not serve Him.' She did not
look on Krishna as God. The other element is 'my-ness'. It means to look on God as one's
own-'my Gopala'. Uddhava said to Yasoda: 'Mother, your Krishna is God Himself. He is
the Lord of the Universe and not a common human being.' 'Oh!' exclaimed Yasoda. 'I am
not asking you about your Lord of the Universe. I want to know how my Gopala fares. Not
the Lord of the Universe, but my Gopala.'


"How faithful to Krishna the gopis were! After many entreaties to the door-keeper, the
gopis entered the royal court in Mathura, where Krishna was seated as king. The doorkeeper
took them to Him; but at the sight of King Krishna wearing the royal turban, the
gopis bent down their heads and said among themselves: 'Who is this man with a turban on
his head? Should we violate our chaste love for Krishna by talking to him? Where is our
beloved Krishna with the yellow robe and the bewitching crest with the peacock feather?'
"Did you observe the single-minded love of the gopis for Krishna? The ideal of Vrindavan
is unique. I am told that the people of Dwaraka worship Krishna, the companion of Arjuna,
but reject Radha."

A DEVOTEE: "Which is the better, ecstatic love or love mixed with knowledge?"

Parable of the three friends

MASTER: "It is not possible to develop ecstatic love of God unless you love Him very
deeply and regard Him as your very own
.

"Listen to a story. Once three friends were going through a forest, when a tiger suddenly
appeared before them. 'Brothers,' one of them exclaimed, 'we are lost!' 'Why should you say
that?' said the second friend. 'Why should we be lost? Come, let us pray to God.' The third
friend said: 'No. Why should we trouble God about it? Come, let us climb this tree.'
"The friend who said, 'We are lost!' did not know that there is a God who is our Protector.
The friend who asked the others to pray to God was a jnani. He was aware that God is the
Creator, Preserver, and Destroyer of the world. The third friend, who didn't want to trouble
God with prayers and suggested climbing the tree, had ecstatic love of God.
It is the very
nature of such love that it makes a man think himself stronger than his Beloved. He is
always alert lest his Beloved should suffer. The one desire of his life is to keep his Beloved
from even being pricked in the foot by a thorn."


Sri Ramakrishna is making a very deep statement here.Just like absence of 'I' and knowledge of the impersonal being  is jnAna-Bhakti,by the same token the presence of 'I' and 'Mine' after the attainment of jnAna, is parabhakti.This is beyond the bounds of the Intellect.
continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #354 on: October 29, 2012, 11:13:22 AM »
Discussion on JnAna and Bhakti as in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued....

"The lovers of God should not hear much of such reasoning.

"That is why God incarnates Himself as man and teaches people the path of devotion. He
exhorts people to cultivate self-surrender to God. Following the path of devotion, one
realizes everything through His grace both Knowledge and Supreme Wisdom.
"God sports in this world. He is under the control of His devotee. 'Syama, the Divine
Mother, is Herself tied by the cord of the love of Her devotee.'

"Sometimes God becomes the magnet and the devotee the needle, and sometimes the
devotee becomes the magnet and God the needle. The devotee attracts God to him. God is
the Beloved of His devotee and is under his control
.

"According to one school, the gopis of Vrindavan, like Yasoda, had believed in the
formless God in their previous births; but they did not derive any satisfaction from this
belief. That is why later on they enjoyed so much bliss in the company of Sri Krishna in the
Vrindavan episode of His life. One day Krishna said to the gopis: 'Come along. I shall show
you the Abode of the Eternal. Let us go to the Jamuna for a bath.' As they dived into the
water of the river, they at once saw Goloka. Next they saw the Indivisible Light. Thereupon
Yasoda exclaimed: 'O Krishna, we don't care for these things any more. We would like to
see You in Your human form. I want to take You in my arms and feed You.'"

continued...

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #355 on: October 29, 2012, 11:22:41 AM »
Discussion on JnAna and Bhakti as In The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued....

"The Master went with the devotees to the northeast verandah of his room. Among them was
a householder from the village of Dakshineswar, who studied Vedanta philosophy at home.
He had been discussing Om with Kedar before the Master. He said, "This Eternal Word, the
Anahata Sabda, is ever present both within and without."

MASTER: "But the Word is not enough. There must be something indicated by the Word.
Can your name alone make me happy? Complete happiness is not possible for me unless I
see you."

DEVOTEE: "That Eternal Word itself is Brahman."

MASTER (to Kedar): "Oh, don't you understand? He upholds the doctrine of the rishis of
olden times. They once said to Rama: 'O Rama, we know You only as the son of Dasaratha.
Let sages like Bharadvaja worship You as God Incarnate. We want to realize Brahman, the
Indivisible Existence-Knowledge-Bliss Absolute.' At these words Rama smiled and went
away."


KEDAR: "Those rishis could not recognize Rama as an Incarnation of God. They must
have been fools,"

MASTER (seriously): "Please don't say such a thing. People worship God according to
their tastes and temperaments.
The mother cooks the same fish differently for her children,
that each one may have what suits his stomach. For some she cooks the rich dish of pilau.
But not all the children can digest it. For those with weak stomachs she prepares soup.
Some, again, like fried fish or pickled fish. It depends on one's taste.

Incarnation of God

"The rishis followed the path of jnana. Therefore they sought to realize Brahman, the
Indivisible Existence-Knowledge-Bliss Absolute. But those who follow the path of
devotion seek an Incarnation of God, to enjoy the sweetness of bhakti. The darkness of the
mind disappears when God is realized. In the Purana it is said that it was as if a hundred
suns were shining when Rama entered the court. Why, then, weren't the courtiers burnt up?
It was because the brilliance of Rama was not like that of a material object. As the lotus
blooms when the sun rises, so the lotus of the heart of the people assembled in the court
burst into blossom."

As the Master uttered these words, standing before the devotees, he suddenly fell into an
ecstatic mood. His mind was withdrawn from external objects. No sooner did he say, "the
lotus of the heart burst into blossom", than he went into deep samadhi. He stood
motionless, his countenance beaming and his lips parted in a smile.

After a long time he returned to the normal consciousness of the world. He drew a long
breath and repeatedly chanted the name of Rama, every word showering nectar into the
hearts of the devotees. The Master sat down, the others seating themselves around him.
MASTER (to the devotees): "Ordinary people do not recognize the advent of an Incarnation
of God. He comes in secret. Only a few of His intimate disciples can recognize Him. That
Rama was both Brahman Absolute and a perfect Incarnation of God in human form was
known only to twelve rishis. The other sages said to Him, 'Rama, we know You only as
Dasaratha's son.'

"Can everyone comprehend Brahman, the Indivisible Existence-Knowledge-Bliss
Absolute? He alone has attained perfect love of God who, having reached the Absolute,
keeps himself in the realm of the Relative in order to enjoy the divine lila.
A man can
describe the ways and activities of the Queen if he has previously visited her in England.
Only then will his description of the Queen be correct. Sages like Bharadvaja adored Rama
and said: 'O Rama, You are nothing but the Indivisible Satchidananda. You have appeared
before us as a human being, but You look like a man because You have shrouded Yourself
with Your own maya.' These rishis were great devotees of Rama: and had supreme love for
God."

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #356 on: October 30, 2012, 07:10:29 AM »
Discussion on jnAna and bhakti as in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued...

Story of Uddhava

Sri Ramakrishna asked the kathak to recite the episode of Uddhava, the friend and devotee
of Krishna.

At the request of Krishna, Uddhava had gone to Vrindavan to console the cowherds and the
gopis, who were sore at heart because of their separation from their beloved Krishna
.

The kathak said:

When Uddhava arrived at Vrindavan, the gopis and cowherd boys ran to him eagerly and
asked him: "How is our Krishna? Has He forgotten us altogether? Doesn't He even speak
our names?" So saying, some of them wept. Others accompanied him to various places in
Vrindavan still filled with Krishna's sweet memory. They said: "Here it was that Krishna
lifted up Mount Govardhan, and here He killed the demons sent by the evil-minded Kamśa.
In this meadow He tended His cows; here on the bank of the Jamuna He sported with the
gopis. Here He played with the cowherd boys, and here in these groves He met the gopis secretly."

Uddhava said to them: "Why are you so grief-stricken at Krishna's absence? He resides in
all beings as their indwelling Spirit. He is God Himself, and nothing can exist without
God." "But", said the gopis, "we do not understand all that. We can neither read nor write.
We know only our Krishna of Vrindavan, who played with us here in so many ways."


Uddhava said: "Krishna is God Himself. By meditating on Him, man escapes from birth
and death in the world and attains liberation." The gopis said: "We do not understand big
words like 'liberation'
. We want to see the Krishna of our hearts."


The Master listened to the story from the Bhagavata with great attention and said at last,
"Yes, the gopis were right."

Then he sang:

Though I am never loath to grant salvation,
I hesitate indeed, to grant pure love.
Whoever wins pure love surpasses all;
He is adored by men;
He triumphs over the three worlds.
Listen, Chandravali! I shall tell you of love:
Mukti a man may gain, but rare is bhakti.
Solely for pure love's sake did I become
King Vali's door-keeper
Down in his realm in the nether world.
Alone in Vrindavan can pure love be found;
Its secret none but the gopas and gopis know.
For pure love's sake I dwelt in Nanda's house;
Taking him as My father,
I carried his burdens on My head.

The Master said to the kathak: "The gopis had ecstatic love, unswerving and single-minded
devotion to one ideal
. Do you know the meaning of devotion that is not loyal to one ideal?
It is devotion tinged with intellectual knowledge. It makes one feel: 'Krishna has become all
these. He alone is the Supreme Brahman. He is Rama, Siva, and Sakti.' But this element of
knowledge is not present in ecstatic love of God
.
--------------------------------------------------------
Elsewhere in The Gospel,Sri Ramakrishna says:

"Do you know who the gopis were? Ramachandra was wandering in the forest where sixty
thousand rishis dwelt. They were very eager to see Him. He cast a tender glance at them.
According to a certain Purana, they were born later on as the gopis of Vrindavan."

continued

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #357 on: October 30, 2012, 09:19:47 AM »
Discussion on jnAna and Bhakti as in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna continued....

Just what does Sri Ramakrishna means by Ecstatic Love of God that the Gopis had;that it is parabhakti will be clear from this conversation of M,(M,The Apostle and the Evangelist).M talks about how the story of the Gopis is expounded by veda vyAsa to Suka Brahmam,and how later on Suka explains it to Raja Parikshit:

Veda Vyasa taughtabout the Gopi-lila to Sukadeva, his son, the image of concentratedjnana. It is so high! That’s why, just at the mention of the Gopis,Thakur would bow down and offer them his pranam. He used to say,‘Just a grain of the prema of the Gopis, if it enters a person, turnseverything topsy-turvy.’"Sukadeva only was eligible to narrate the story of the prema ofGopis and the only eligible listener was Parikshit. When did henarrate it to Parikshit? When Parikshit was about to die at the bankof the Ganga in the presence of rishis and munis. In the beginning,Parikshit did not possess the capability of understanding it. So, hehad some doubts. Even when it was explained to him twice, hecouldn’t be rid of his doubt. It was only when it was narrated to hima third time that he was freed from his doubt."The last doubt that Parikshit had was: Why did Sri Krishna enacthis lila with the Gopis, though he was God himself? Sri Krishna wasa friend and protector of his family. Even so, the scorn for this playhad taken firm roots in the mind of Parikshit so much so that therewas no way to get rid of it."Sukadeva said to Parikshit, ‘tejaseeyam na doshaya vanhehsarvabhujoh yatha.’ The fire consumes both sandalwood and excretawith equanimity when they are dropped in it.’ Similarly, those whohave realised the Self, those whose sense of ‘I’ has become one withthat of God have the power."Parikshit had the social view point. So, he could not accept thiselucidation. His doubt persisted. His idea was that what is bad, isbad for everybody. Apparently, this appears to be correct."Sukadeva tried to explain it to him a second time. This time he triedto awaken Parikshit’s scriptural insight. He said, ‘All the acts of thespiritually great are not to be imitated. There are so many of theirdeeds which they perform themselves, but don’t ask others to imitate.
And there are so many which they perform and ask others to dolikewise. Only these acts are the ones that can be imitated by others.Sri Krishna’s Rasa Lila was performed with another man’s wife, buthe never asked others to do so.’"This argument also could not remove the doubt from Parikshit’smind. He was inclined to take Sri Krishna as the ideal man. All hisacts should be imitated and put into one’s conduct. Nevertheless, it isa contemptible act to meet another man’s wife alone. In what waycould this act of Sri Krishna be considered unimpeachable?"Parikshit’s death was near. So, on seeing him possessed by such aninnocent yearning, Sukadeva opened the door of his spiritual insightby his grace. Said he, ‘Parikshit, Sri Krishna was not merely an idealman, he was Parama-Brahman absolute. It is by His will that theuniverse is created, preserved and dissolved. In the form of Ishwara(Lord), he himself becomes man or woman, and the twenty four elements. He was himself the Gopis and himself Krishna. He was enacting his sport with the Self.’ How? Like a child playing with hisown reflections in the mirror. He who was Gopis was also Krishna Gopi-Krishna."

continued....

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #358 on: November 03, 2012, 05:03:08 AM »
Discussion on jnAna and Bhakti continued....

"The jiva at first remains in a state of ignorance. He is not conscious of God, but of the
multiplicity. He sees many things around him. On attaining Knowledge he becomes
conscious that God dwells in all beings. Suppose a man has a thorn in the sole of his foot.
He gets another thorn and takes out the first one. In other words, he removes the thorn of
ajnana, ignorance, by means of the thorn of jnana, knowledge. But on attaining vijnana, he
discards both thorns, knowledge and ignorance. Then he talks intimately with God day and
night. It is no mere vision of God
.

"He who has merely heard of milk is 'ignorant'. He who has seen milk has 'knowledge'. But
he who has drunk milk and been strengthened by it has attained vijnana."


Thus the Master described his own state of mind to the devotees. He was indeed a vijnani.
MASTER (to the devotees): "There is a difference between, a sadhu endowed with jnana
and one endowed with vijnana. The jnani sadhu has a certain way of sitting. He twirls his
moustache and asks the visitor, 'Well, sir! Have you any question to ask?'
But the man who
always sees God and talks to Him intimately has an altogether different nature. He is
sometimes like an inert thing, sometimes like a ghoul, sometimes like a child, and
sometimes like a madman.

"When he is in samadhi, he becomes unconscious of the outer world and appears inert. He
sees everything to be full of Brahman-Consciousness; therefore he behaves like a ghoul. He
is not conscious of the holy and the unholy. He does not observe any formal purity. To him
everything is Brahman. He is not aware of filth as such. Even rice and other cooked food
after a few days become like filth.

"Again, he is like a madman. People notice his ways and actions and think of him as insane.
Or sometimes he is like a child-no bondage, no shame, no hatred, no hesitation, or the like.
"One reaches this state of mind after having the vision of God. When a boat passes by a
magnetic hill, its screws and nails become loose and drop out. Lust, anger, and the other
passions cannot exist after the vision of God".

continued...

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #359 on: November 03, 2012, 05:09:28 AM »
Discussion on jnAna and Bhakti continued....

The state of a vijnani

Prankrishna always talked about jnana. Was this why the Master described the state of the
jnani? Now he proceeded to describe the state of the vijnani.

MASTER: "Jnana is the realization of Self through the process of 'Neti, neti', 'Not this, not
this'. One goes into samadhi through this process of elimination and realizes the Atman.
"But vijnana means Knowledge with a greater fullness. Some have heard of milk, some
have seen milk, and some have drunk milk. He who has merely heard of it is 'ignorant'. He
who has seen it is a jnani. But he who has drunk it has vijnana, that is to say, a fuller
knowledge of it. After having the vision of God one talks to Him as if He were an intimate
relative. That is vijnana.

"First of all you must discriminate, following the method of 'Neti, neti': 'He is not the five
elements, nor the sense-organs, nor the mind, nor the intelligence, nor the ego. He is
beyond all these cosmic principles.' You want to climb to the roof; then you must eliminate
and leave behind all the steps one by one. The steps are by no means the roof. But after
reaching the roof you find that the steps are made of the same materials―brick, lime, and
brick-dust―as the roof. It is the Supreme Brahman that has become the universe and its
living beings and the twenty-four cosmic principles. That which is Atman has become the
five elements. You may ask why the earth is so hard, if it has come out of Atman? All is
possible through the will of God. Don't you see that bone and flesh are made from blood
and semen? How hard 'sea-foam' becomes!

"After attaining vijnana one can live in the world as well. Then one clearly realizes that
God Himself has become the universe and all living beings, that He is not outside the
world.

(To Prankrishna) "The fact is that one must have the 'spiritual eye'. You will develop that
eye as soon as your mind becomes pure. Take for instance the Kumari Puja. I worshipped a
virgin. The girl, to be sure, had all her human imperfections; still I regarded her as the
Divine Mother Herself.

"On one side is the wife and on the other the son. Love is bestowed on both, but in different
ways. Therefore it comes to this, that everything depends upon the mind. The pure mind
acquires a new attitude. Through that mind one sees God in this world. Therefore one needs
spiritual discipline
.

continued...