Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 285056 times)

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #315 on: October 17, 2012, 02:23:55 PM »
Sri Ravi,

This following quote of Sri Aurobindo is everything put together. One-stop-shop knowledge! thank you.

"When the human ego realises that its will is a tool, its wisdom ignorance and childishness, its power an infant's groping, its virtue a pretentious impurity, and learns to trust itself to that which transcends it, that is its salvation. The apparent freedom and self-assertion of our personal being to which we are so profoundly attached, conceal a most pitiable subjection to a thousand suggestions, impulsions, forces which we have made extraneous to our little person. Our ego, boasting of freedom, is at every moment the slave, toy and puppet of countless beings, powers, forces, influences in universal Nature. The self-abnegation of the ego in the Divine is its self-fulfillment; its surrender to that which transcends it is its liberation from bonds and limits and its perfect freedom."

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #316 on: October 17, 2012, 06:56:30 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi, The post from Sri Aurobindo,which You posted this morning is very important and true for me. We must be very careful with ego,and need to recognize it every time. It can hide in so clever,and subtle ways,using any chance to 'survive'. How many times i saw that through my own example! That,when i see it,i get shocked in that moment. And,it is true that we are open for many influencess then,mostly for many half-truths. Thats way i find Sri Aurobindo's "Intermediate zone" very usefull,and very good reminder. Now and then i read it,just to remind my self. Thank You Very much Sir!! With love and prayers..

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #317 on: October 17, 2012, 07:47:08 PM »
Nagaraj,
Yes,the passage that you have highlighted clearly warns about the subtle ways of the Ego;the worst that may happen is when someone declares himself as 'Avatar'!
An attitude of Humility, openness ,and receptivity to the Divine through childlike devotion help us to steer clear of the muddle.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #318 on: October 17, 2012, 07:52:18 PM »
Jewell,
Indeed!You seem to be pretty familiar with Sri Aurobindo's Letters on Yoga!Yes,'The Intermediate Zone' is one fraught with dangers,and the seeker can steer clear if the devotion (what sri aurobindo calls as the Psychic being,chaitaya purusha)is brought to bear on the Physical,Vital and mental planes of our being.
Thanks very much.
Namaskar.

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #319 on: October 17, 2012, 08:14:34 PM »
Dear Sri Ravi, Yes,i have read many writings of Sri Aurobindo. Not everything sure,coz many i couldnt understand at first,and some i didnt need at that moment,i guess. But,on that one particulary,i came across long ago,and i try to keep it fresh,and remember it from time to time. In 'Letters' i found many things very useful for sadhana in general. Coz it covers every aspect of mind. Real Treasure! With love and prayers...

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #320 on: October 17, 2012, 08:50:29 PM »
Nagaraj/Friends,
I am not familiar with what Sri Gundappa has said regarding the Gita,but from the Introduction by Prof Sharma,I infer that it is more as a Practical guide and inspiration for day to day living within the Socio,Economical Structure,with a humane and philantrophic element,and a harmonious living as the aim.May be there are other aspects and It is not presented in the introduction.

I am presenting an Excerpt from Sri Aurobindo's Essays on Gita here;I will remove this post from this section and move it to the 'Rough Note Book' thread subsequently;at the moment,thought that this would present a perfect backdrop to post this excerpt:

Excerpt from The Essays on The Gita-Sri Aurobindo:

"At the present day, since in fact the modern mind began to recognise and deal at all with the Gita, the tendency is to
subordinate its elements of knowledge and devotion, to take advantage of its continual insistence on action and to find in it
a scripture of the Karmayoga, a Light leading us on the path of action, a Gospel of Works. Undoubtedly, the Gita is a Gospel
of Works, but of works which culminate in knowledge, that is, in spiritual realisation and quietude, and of works motived by
devotion, that is, a conscious surrender of one’s whole self first into the hands and then into the being of the Supreme, and not
at all of works as they are understood by the modern mind, not at all an action dictated by egoistic and altruistic, by personal,
social, humanitarian motives, principles, ideals. Yet this is what present-day interpretations seek to make of the Gita.We are told
continually by many authoritative voices that the Gita, opposing in this the ordinary ascetic and quietistic tendency of Indian
thought and spirituality, proclaims with no uncertain sound the gospel of human action, the ideal of disinterested performance
of social duties, nay, even, it would seem, the quite modern ideal of social service. To all this I can only reply that very
patently and even on the very surface of it the Gita does nothing of the kind and that this is a modern misreading, a reading
of the modern mind into an ancient book, of the present-day European or Europeanised intellect into a thoroughly antique,
a thoroughly Oriental and Indian teaching. That which the Gita teaches is not a human, but a divine action; not the performance
of social duties, but the abandonment of all other standards of duty or conduct for a selfless performance of the divine will
working through our nature; not social service, but the action of the Best, the God-possessed, the Master-men done impersonally
for the sake of the world and as a sacrifice to Him who stands behind man and Nature.

In other words, the Gita is not a book of practical ethics, but of the spiritual life. The modern mind is just now the European
mind, such as it has become after having abandoned not only the philosophic idealism of the highest Graeco-Roman culture from
which it started, but the Christian devotionalism of the Middle Ages; these it has replaced by or transmuted into a practical
idealism and social, patriotic and philanthropic devotion. It has got rid of God or kept Him only for Sunday use and erected in
His place man as its deity and society as its visible idol. At its best it is practical, ethical, social, pragmatic, altruistic, humanitarian.
Now all these things are good, are especially needed at the present day, are part of the divine Will or they would
not have become so dominant in humanity. Nor is there any reason why the divine man, the man who lives in the Brahmic
consciousness, in the God-being should not be all of these things in his action; he will be, if they are the best ideal of the age, the
Yugadharma, and there is no yet higher ideal to be established, no great radical change to be effected. For he is, as the Teacher
points out to his disciple, the best who has to set the standard for others; and in fact Arjuna is called upon to live according to
the highest ideals of his age and the prevailing culture, but with
knowledge, with understanding of that which lay behind, and not as ordinary men, with a following of the merely outward
law and rule.

But the point here is that the modern mind has exiled from its practical motive-power the two essential things, God or the
Eternal and spirituality or the God-state, which are the master conceptions of the Gita. It lives in humanity only, and the Gita
would have us live in God, though for the world in God; in its life, heart and intellect only, and the Gita would have us live in
the spirit; in the mutable Being who is “all creatures”, and the Gita would have us live also in the Immutable and the Supreme;
in the changing march of Time, and the Gita would have us live in the Eternal. Or if these higher things are now beginning
to be vaguely envisaged, it is only to make them subservient to man and society; but God and spirituality exist in their own
right and not as adjuncts. And in practice the lower in us must learn to exist for the higher, in order that the higher also may in
us consciously exist for the lower, to draw it nearer to its own altitudes".

Namaskar

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #321 on: October 17, 2012, 08:51:48 PM »
Jewell,
Yes,The Letters on Yoga is a very valuable resource.
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #322 on: October 18, 2012, 04:06:40 PM »
Quote
One can behold Her incomparable beauty through feeling and love.

Sri Ravi, This is one of the easiest way to get to see the Supreme God or the Self. It is only the wrong notion or idea that experience of Self is superior to this, is the real stepping stone!

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #323 on: October 18, 2012, 07:53:28 PM »
Nagaraj,
Yes Friend.I absolutely agree with what you have said.Elsewhere the Master says in The Gospel,in this excerpt:

Surrender to the Divine Mother

MASTER: "Who can ever know God? I don't even try. I only call on Him as Mother. Let
Mother do whatever She likes. I shall know Her if it is Her will; but I shall be happy to
remain ignorant if She wills otherwise
. My nature is that of a kitten. It only cries, 'Mew,
mew!' The rest it leaves to its mother. The mother cat puts the kitten sometimes in the
kitchen and sometimes on the master's bed. The young child wants only his mother. He
doesn't know how wealthy his mother is, and he doesn't even want to know.
He knows
only, 'I have a mother; why should I worry?' Even the child of the maidservant knows that
he has a mother. If he quarrels with the son of the master, he says: 'I shall tell my mother
. I
have a mother.' My attitude, too, is that of a child."


Again he says:"God is your own Mother. Enforce your demand. If you are part of a thing, you feel its
attraction. Because of the element of the Divine Mother in me I feel attracted to Her."

The Master gives us this wonderful way of sadhana that is easy and sweet:

"I used to go into samadhi uttering the word 'Ma'. While repeating
the word I would draw the Mother of the Universe to me, as it were, like the fishermen
casting their net and after a while drawing it in. When they draw in the net they find big
fish inside it
."

Whoever had heard Sri Ramakrishna uttering 'ma' were transfixed by the sweetness and intimacy in the call.
This is a mantra that everyone can chant and requires no initiation!
Namaskar.

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #324 on: October 20, 2012, 02:52:13 PM »
Sri Ravi,

i just posted a small story in the Stories thread. Kindly let me know if it is better we have it elsewhere, or it is ok as it sis, as it appears in between a continuity of story posted by you. thank you.

॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #325 on: October 20, 2012, 03:07:41 PM »
Nagaraj,
Wonderful parable that you have posted.If you think that it may belong to the thread -Sankaracharya teachings,you may think of moving it there.
It makes me think of the Flute;Because it is light and hollow it has earned the unique place of being held by hand and kissed by the Sacred lips of lord Sri Krishna;The melody that it emits is that of the Divine.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #326 on: October 20, 2012, 09:45:09 PM »
udai,
Here is the synopsis of Ashtavakra Gita chapterwise;I have not read this work.I am not expecting any big surprise here though!
Chapter 1: It all starts when King Janaka asks the sage Ashtavakra how he
can attain Knowledge, detachment, liberation. Ashtavakra tells him.
Chapter 2: It works! Upon hearing Ashtavakra’s words Janaka realizes his
True Nature. Enraptured, he describes the joy and wonder of his new state.
Chapter 3: Ashtavakra is delighted for Janaka but sees inconsistencies. He
fires off a series of confrontational verses about attachment to worldly pleasure.
Chapter 4: Janaka asserts that the Lord of the Universe can do as he
pleases.
Chapter 5: Ashtavakra does not disagree, but in a terse four verses points
to the next step—dissolution.
Chapter 6: Janaka says “I know that already,” matching him in style and
number of verses.
Chapter 7: Unable to leave it at that, however, Janaka goes on to further
describe his enlightened state.
Chapter 8: Still hearing too much “I” in Janaka’s language, Ashtavakra
instructs him in the subtleties of attachment and bondage.
Chapter 9: Ashtavakra continues to describe the way of true detachment.
Chapter 10: Ashtavakra hammers away at the folly of desire—no matter
how elevated or subtle.
Chapter 11: Ashtavakra further describes the state of desirelessness to
which he points.
Chapter 12: Janaka replies by describing the state of timeless stillness in
which he now finds himself
.
Chapter 13: Janaka, having been instructed by Ashtavakra in Chapter One
to “be happy,” reports that he indeed is.
Chapter 14: Janaka then summarizes his exalted state with calm
indifference.
Chapter 15: Impressed but not through teaching, Ashtavakra relentlessly
points to the vast emptiness of Self
.
Chapter 16: Ashtavakra attacks the futility of effort and knowing.
Chapter 17: Ashtavakra describes the nature of one who is truly free.
Chapter 18: Finally, Ashtavakra hits him with everything he’s got—100
verses of pure non-duality. If this doesn’t do it, nothing will.
Chapter 19: It works! Janaka no longer describes his enlightened state, but
can speak only in questions revealing absence
.
Chapter 20: In a final flurry of questions pointing only at their own
meaninglessness, Janaka burns off the last vestiges of personhood and enters
dissolution. He ends with: “No more can be said.”Ashtavakra smiles, nods approvingly, and says no more.

We have been discussing exactly this!
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #327 on: October 20, 2012, 11:38:34 PM »
Udai,
You may have written about ashtAvakra gita all your life;Yet I find that your translation of this verse is not clearly bringing out the simple Truth. :)

Quote
na shaantam labhyate muudho yathaH shamitum ichathi |
dhiras tattva vinishcitya sarvada shaantamanasaH ||

"the fool desires peace through control of mind and so does not attain it. The wise knows the truth [tattva vinishcitya] ever remains with a satisfied mind"

The word  'Mooda' is not to be translated as Fool.I find this word in Bhaja Govindam as well translated as 'Fool'.No,this is entirely wrong.

'Mooda'  means cover or Lid;in tamizh also the word 'moodi' means lid.One whose Self is 'covered' as it were by the mind is called 'Mooda Madhi'.In English also the word 'Mood' means that which covers your True Being,like we say 'I am not in Good Mood' or 'I am in Good Mood'.

Likewise what this verse is saying is :
one whose mind is Tinged with Desire,is covered with that 'Mood' and as such does not Gain(labyate)or attain to peace.
The Firm one(free of this 'mood') who is sure of Truth is forever serene in mind.

In other words,when all coverings are removed,The Mind is the same as Self;Mind shorn of upadhis is Self.

It is not a case of 'Fool vs Wiseman' :)

Namaskar.



Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #328 on: October 21, 2012, 06:32:24 AM »
udai/Friends,
Quote
"If Ashtavakra Gita is properly understood ... we do not need so many scriptures. "

Everyone tends to say the same thing about what one appreciates Best. :) This is quite okay.

"Books are useless to us until our own book opens; then all other books are good so far as they confirm our book"-Swami Vivekananda


Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #329 on: October 21, 2012, 07:18:02 AM »
udai,
"Ashtavakra Gita can lead us to direct liberation and liberated living... Moksha. Who can take this challenge ? No one is ready to take it. Thats the sad part. "

Who is feeling sad? :)

Please understand that I have nothing against what you cherish.All I am questioning if this is 'Enlightenment'.If one is truly liberated ,one will not be expressing like this.

You may refer to today's post in The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna in this Forum if you wish to.

Namaskar.