Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 269584 times)

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2310 on: November 05, 2017, 01:51:44 PM »
ANNAMALAI SWAMI REMEMBERED:
TEACHING THE SIMPLE MINDED

When one group of villagers who had just been given Arunachala Stuti Panchakam [Bhagavan's five poems about Arunachala] to recite left the hall, a devotee asked,
'How can such uneducated people understand the literary Tamil in these poems?
?They don't have to understand the meaning,? replied Bhagavan, ?they will get some benefit from merely repeating the verses.'?
I can think of another similar case. Whenever Echammal's granddaughter came to see Bhagavan, he would ask her to read out loud Upadesa Undiyar [a thirty-verse philosophical work by Bhagavan in Tamil; also called Upadesa Saram]. If she made any mistakes Bhagavan would correct her pronunciation.
Since she seemed to be a rather worldly girl I once asked Bhagavan, This girl does not look as if she has any desire for jnana. Why do you ask her to repeat Upadesa Undiyar each time she comes?'
Bhagavan explained: 'In future when troubles come to her, the remembrance of these verses will help her.'
This girl is now an old woman. When I saw her a few months ago?we had not seen each other for many years?I reminded her of these lessons that Bhagavan had given her.
She told me; "The verses have stayed in my memory all my life, but it is only recently, by the grace of Bhagavan, that I have begun to understand their meaning."
Living by the Words of Bhagavan p 115
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2311 on: November 06, 2017, 09:43:00 PM »
TRUE HEROISM
Bhagavan: Thought rises up as the subject and object. ?I? alone being held, all else disappears. It is enough, but only to the competent few?
The Self being always the Self, why should only a dhira [heroic one] be illumined? Does it mean a man of courage? No. Dhih equals intellect; rah equals watch, protection. So [a] dhira is the one who always keep the mind inward bent, without letting it loose.
- Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, talk no. 352
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2312 on: November 10, 2017, 11:30:15 AM »
CONVERSATIONS WITH ANNAMALAI SWAMI
THE RADIANCE OF BHAGAVAN

Q: I have read a lot about Bhagavan?s method of teaching through silence. You must have experienced it on many occasions. Can you explain how it operated?
AS: If you enter a dark place with a lamp, light falls on everyone who is near you. You don't have to tell people,
?I have a light' because they will all be aware of its presence.
In the presence of a jnani like Bhagavan the spiritual darkness of devotees is put to flight by the radiant light of jnana. In Bhagavan's case, this light cleaned and calmed the minds of all who were near him. When mature devotees basked in this light they sometimes had an experience of the Self.
The radiation of this spiritual power was Bhagavan's mauna diksha [initiation through silence]. He radiated this power quite effortlessly. It was not done by an act of volition,
it was a natural consequence of his realization. Bhagavan didn't need to speak about the Self. He was the Self and he radiated its power all the time. Those who were receptive to this power needed no verbal explanations from Bhagavan. The spoken teachings were only for those who were not able to tune into his silent radiation.
LWB, p. 341
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2313 on: November 15, 2017, 02:43:01 AM »
Quote
     Dreaming


Is it not amazing that at night when we dream we do not realise we are dreaming,
We take the dream events and dream people to be very real. 

It is only on waking in the morning that we realise it was all a dream
Despite all the happenings in my dream not only do I remain untouched, 
but I need change nothing about what is only a dream.

Likewise, the jnani, having awoken from the dream, says to the person, you are dreaming.
The person objects, but my suffering, my pains, my struggles?

It is only on "WAKING UP" that the suffering, the pains, the struggles, 
that are now taken to be so very real, are seen as they truly are, 
A Dream.

 


I loved this post. It is beautiful...

With love,


Nishta

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2314 on: November 15, 2017, 04:09:39 AM »

I loved this post. It is beautiful...

With love,


Thank you for your kind words Jewell  :)

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2315 on: November 17, 2017, 09:44:41 PM »
udai/Anil/Friends,
This is apropos some exchanges in Anil's thread regarding the nature of self enquiry...am sharing my observations ....I have expanded a little to cover a few other misunderstandings as well(18/11/2017).
Anil has also said that 'who am I?' initially serves to draw the attention inward...and that the real vichara is 'summa iru' (Just be).
Now Udai says that he is following his own ('my own') enquiry and describes it as 'let go'.
Is there a difference between the two viewpoints?...I do not see any difference.
Mostly the differences arise because each one of us is comfortable with a particular terminology and attach different significance to the words used...like 'killing of the ego'-it just means that you do not identify with 'I am so and so thought' and it does not imply fighting it as if there is an entity there.
Ego just means 'doership' ,the 'I am the doer' and the killing of the ego simply means getting rid of the idea of doership.

In 'nan yar' Sri Bhagavan wonderfully and pithily clarifies in a sutra like fashion:
அன்னியத்தை நாடாதிருத்தல் வைராக்கியம் அல்லது நிராசை; தன்னை விடாதிருத்தல் ஞானம். உண்மையி லிரண்டு மொன்றே.
Not seeking any other (thing other than self) is vairagya or nirasa;not letting go of the Self is jnana.In truth both are one.


In his tirumanthiram,the great sage Tirumular says the same thing:
ஆசை  விடுமின் ஆசை விடுமின் ஈசனோடினும் ஆசை விடுமின்
Let go of desire,Let go of desrire;even if it be for Ishwara,let go of desire
( he has elsewhere said that 'anbe Sivam' Verily Love is Sivam....so Love of God is not desire-Just to stand clarified)

so it is clear that letting go of everything is the same as holding onto the Self!(If 'letting go' does not involve any 'doing' and a 'doer',by the same token 'Holding on' also does not involve a 'doing' and a 'doer'.

If the false 'I' is called ahamkara and the true 'I' is called Aham,it is quite clear that these terminologies and the sense they stand for have been recognized from the upanishadic times down to the sages of present times...and there is nothing that has been newly enunciated or discovered by bhagavan....Has Bhagavan anywhere stated that he Has 'discovered' something that was never known before or little known before...If bhagavan had not said that,the matter ends there and Bhagavan will not say that and cannot say that...In fact he has said  in his atma bodham that it is 'sankara' who is not apart from Atma and has graced the 'atma -bodha' that is now offering it in tamizh through him(Bhagavan)...so,it is clear that Bhagavan is not 'distinguishing' himself as a 'discoverer' of a new way,etc....He has also said that everyone has to get to vichara to realize the Self and has called it as the 'Toll gate'....and it is clear that there are not multiple such 'toll gates' to the Self!...This means that Vichara has been in practice since ages immemorial and it is this that makes it truly universal and impersonal.

So,the terminology is understood differently but if we understand the essence leaving aside terminologies,there are not many versions of enquiry but just vichara...there is nothing like someone introducing a brand new variety of it never seen earlier,etc....that is a misunderstanding that is best set aside even if someone like Sri sadhu om has maintained such a thing....it may well be just his opinion and is not based on solid factual evidence either in Bhagavan's own writings or utterances nor in the experience of the other sages from Upanishadic times onwards until now...Sri Sadhu Om is not around to give further clarification on this...and it shall not serve any purpose to spend more time in disputing/discussing this baseless claim.

Many misunderstandings can be avoided if only we try to understand the other devotee on his own terms rather than trying to make the other see one's point of view....The differences shall also be fewer and immaterial.
namaskar
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 12:21:54 PM by Ravi.N »

srkudai

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2316 on: November 19, 2017, 07:57:42 AM »
Dear Ravi ji,
         :)

You are very correct in saying that mostly the differences are in vocabulary and the usage of the words rather than in content.

A small correction from my side [i should have articulated more clearly] , when i said "i perform my own inquiry" it was in response to ksksat ji's statement that "udai is a traditionalist" ... i was just trying to mention that i do not really fit into that. :) it was not in relation to Self Inquiry.

Self Inquiry : its 100% as explained by Bhagavan. :) There is no difference. 

Love!
Silence

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2317 on: November 19, 2017, 08:35:31 AM »
udai garu,
"A small correction from my side [i should have articulated more clearly] , when i said "i perform my own inquiry" it was in response to ksksat ji's statement that "udai is a traditionalist"

Yes indeed...I added it as a punch line to highlight the widely prevailing misunderstanding that there are different forms of 'Vichara' ...The Traditional one,The Yoga vasishta one,The Bhagavan's version as claimed by Sri Sadhu Om and Sri Annamalai Swami version of Bhagavan's,etc,etc...and now 'Udai garu's ' vichara...This is absurd.
If the nature of the 'ego' is the same in all(its manifestations in the same person/persons as kama krodha,lobha etc are manifold and varied),it simply means that vichara that deals with it has to be the same...to see the unreality of the ego sense....There just cannot be multiple versions of it.
It is understood that the initial starting point and the path traversed by different devotees would vary in accordance with the diversity of their nature as human beings but ultimately all have to converge to the same point ...the relinquishing of the ego sense, the 'I' and 'Mine' by seeing its unreal nature and getting rid of it in toto ...Vichara and self surrender are one and the same.

If we truly understand Vichara we will recognize it irrespective of how it is described...Descriptions are many but Truth is one....Ekam Sat bahuda vadanti....and we may then understand the 'JK Vichara' as well!.

Namaskar

srkudai

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2318 on: November 19, 2017, 08:59:56 AM »
Dear Ravi ji,
       :) true

Quote
.the relinquishing of the ego sense, the 'I' and 'Mine' by seeing its unreal nature and getting rid of it in toto ...Vichara and self surrender are one and the same.

very true. As i mentioned in another thread ...
Sri Ramakrishna told Girish chandra gosh to give him the power of attorney. And  that was really not different from self inquiry. for what does he do ? whenever his mind unconsciously took up ownership he would simply leave that ownership , surrendering it to Sri Ramakrishna and thus would "just be" :)

infact Sri Ramakrishna was also very clear on Self inquiry ... his onion example where he says finding out the "I" is like peeling an onion ... as one peels one finds that there is no "I" ... only He or God !

The style in which it is expressed is different ... but the same Truth has been expressed by everyone ... I mean all those saints who understood.

Love!
Silence

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2319 on: November 19, 2017, 09:13:32 AM »
Udai garu,
Very true...that is a wonderful story of Girish babu...how he said that while other brother disciples could practice sadhana ,he was in no position to do any sadhana ,having given the 'power of attorney'!...This is a very profound statement...it is the very depth of self surrender ....Sri Ramakrishna used to say that Girish babu had 125% faith or Shraddha in his guru...I intended  covering it in the other thread 'practical Hints from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna'...Shraddha characterizes the sadhana and does the sadhana...Shraddha is Grace manifesting through the disciple when he is receptive and opens himself to its breeze.
Thanks very much for bringing it up.
namaskar

srkudai

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2320 on: November 19, 2017, 09:35:00 AM »
Dear Ravi ji,
       :)
There is a very interesting point to note here : Sraddha is not belief.
Srat dadati iti sradha , that which leads to truth, Srat is sat nama , the SAT is Sradha.

its an attitude of open-ness , in zen its called beginner's mind.

girish gosh was convinced that the worldly pleasures cannot give him the kind of intoxication that Sri Ramakrishna experienced day in and day out. He was totally disillusioned of the world ... though he probably could not give up his addictions since he did not find out the "TRUE Addiction" of Sri Ramakrishna, he was unhappy with the worldly pleasures. If we read his story this is obvious. That is wisdom ... it just means the wheel was cut off... it was only a matter of time before he drops off. thats why when Sri Ramakrishna said "give me the power of attorney" , he could do it ... because he knew that by being in control and trying to control he was not really achieving much ! When sri ramakrishna said "can you atleast chant God's name every day", he said no ... it was clear from it that he was already convinced that he had no control ... instead of feeling bad about it ... sri ramakrishna directed it towards surrender thats the beauty! We see again and again that Sri Ramakrishna had very keen insights into his disciple's lives ... and when i say this ... we are all included in his disciples list :P

Love!
Silence

 

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2321 on: November 19, 2017, 09:47:10 AM »
Udai garu,
Ofcourse Shraddha means openness,receptivity, trust and diligence...Belief is something that a person tries to hold onto...on the other hand Shraddha gets hold of the person!...It is the manifestation of Grace(on account of the receptivity and trust) in the disciple and leads the disciple inspite of himself.
http://www.arunachala-ramana.org/forum/index.php?topic=8446.15  (The power of Shraddha)
namaskar
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 09:59:49 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2322 on: November 21, 2017, 08:56:29 AM »
Udai garu,
"Sri Ramakrishna used to say that when a person is spiritually minded god sends him ways to reduce activity or work.
i hope he does that for me some day soon so that i can spend a lot of time sitting in meditation."

Yes indeed....it is the sincere wish of every true devotee....In the gospel we find M expressing such a wish...yet,after the passing away of the master he had to take up two or more jobs at a time!....He supported his family with the earnings from one job...the earnings from the other job was offered to support The Holy Mother,Narendra and the other monastic disciples....What a life M lead....truly a model householder.
In The Gospel,the master says:

"As for you you are all right.There is a little yet to be done. When that is achieved, nothing will remain-neither duty nor work nor the world itself. Is it good to get rid of everything?"
As Sri Ramakrishna spoke these words he looked at Mohini affectionately, as if scanning his inmost feelings. Was Mohini (this is one of the pseudo names M assumes in the Gospel-ravi) really wondering whether it would, be wise to renounce all for God?
 After a while Sri Ramakrishna said, "God binds the Bhagavata pundit to the world with one tie; otherwise, who would remain to explain the sacred book? He keeps the pundit bound for the good of men. That is why the Divine Mother has kept you in the world."

Everything just happened the way master said....M,the Bhagavata pandit was instrumental in writing the wonderful Kathamrita(Bhagavatam of the present times!) and expounding it all his life.
We shall cover more on the topic of what you have said ...and what Sri Ramakrishna has to say on that in the Gospel a little later in this thread.
namaskar


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2323 on: November 22, 2017, 02:48:06 PM »
Udai/Friends,
Here is an excerpt from the Gospel where M expresses a wish to be free from worldly duties:

Master:I came to know in an ecstatic mood that, though Niranjan had accepted a job in an office, he would not be stained by it. He is earning money for his mother. There is no harm in that.
The work you are doing won't injure you either. What you are doing is good. Suppose a clerk is sent to jail; he is shut up there and chained, and at last he is released. Does he cut capers after his release? Of course not. He works again as a clerk. It is not your intention to accumulate money. You only want to support your family. Otherwise, where will they go?

M: I shall be relieved if someone takes charge of them.
MASTER: That is true. But now do 'this' as well as 'that'
M: It is great luck to be able to renounce everything.
MASTER: That is true. But people act according to their inherent tendencies. You have a few more duties to perform. After these are over you will have peace. Then you will be released. A man cannot easily get out of the hospital once his name is registered there. He is discharged only when he is completely cured.

This is the beauty of the Gospel....every aspiration,wish,difficulty,desperation,hope,diffidence that a spiritual aspirant is beset is reflected and the master comes down to that level and allays it with reassurance...there is nothing that is not covered here and the earnest aspirant will get all the guidance and inspiration that he needs to put him on track and encourage him onward.
M always cherished sannyasa as the highest ideal...he had an ardent desire to embrace it but the master always dissuaded him and advised him to continue to perform his duties as a householder while uncompromisingly pursuing the spiritual path...Yet,such was M's earnestness to see if he had true inner renunciation and he often put that to test!
In the book 'A Search in Secret India'he tells paul Brunton:
One day the master said to me:' " I can see from the signs of your eyes, brow and face that you are a Yogi. Do all your work then, but keep your mind on God. Wife, children, father and mother, live with all and serve them as if they are your own. The tortoise swims about in the waters of the lake, but her mind is fixed to where her eggs are laid on the banks. So, do all the work of the world but keep the mind in God.'
"And so, after the passing away of our master, when most of the other disciples voluntarily renounced the world, adopted the yellow robe, and trained themselves to spread Ramakrishna's message through India, I did not give up my profession but carried on with my work in education. Nevertheless, such was my determination not to be of the world although I was in it, that on some nights I would retire at dead of night to the open veranda before the Senate House and sleep among the homeless beggars of the city, who usually collected there to spend the night. This used to make me feel, temporarily at least, that I was a man with no possessions".

namaskar
« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 02:56:50 PM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2324 on: November 22, 2017, 02:54:21 PM »
The more you come to love God, the less you will be inclined to perform action. When the daughter-in-law is with child, her mother-in-law gives her less work to do. As time goes by she is given less and less work. When the time of delivery nears, she is not allowed to do any work at all, lest it should hurt the child or cause difficulty at the time of birth.

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna