Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 284925 times)

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2250 on: May 27, 2017, 08:24:34 PM »
Life is a process of relationship. There is no life without relationship. This is a fact. You may be a hermit, you may be a monk, you may withdraw from all society, but you are related. As a human being, you cannot escape from being related. - J Krishnamurti
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2251 on: May 28, 2017, 03:16:56 PM »
ANNAMALAI SWAMI ? FINAL TALKS
Question: It is difficult for me to stay focused on the
?I?-thought, especially when I am in the middle of worldly activities. Is it enough to be aware of awareness, of consciousness in general?
Annamalai Swami: If you are conscious of consciousness, there is no duality. Everything is included in consciousness.
Question: But is it enough to be aware of the awareness?
Annamalai Swami: You are repeating the question, so I will repeat the answer. If you remain in the state of consciousness,
there will be nothing apart from it. No problems, no misery, no
questions.
Question: Are you always in that state of consciousness? I find that when I am busy with activities, thoughts come up and I am no longer remembering myself. I am no longer focusing on
consciousness.
Annamalai Swami: I don't lose consciousness of the Self
because I don't get identified with the body and the mind. It is only in the state in which you identify with the body and the mind that problems arise.
In deep sleep we forget the body and the mind, but consciousness is still there. That same state is present now, while we are awake. If you give up all your ideas about separateness, that will be enough. When those ideas have gone you realize you are everything.
p. 20
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2252 on: May 28, 2017, 03:18:08 PM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2253 on: May 29, 2017, 06:50:14 AM »
I saw this post on FB posted by a devotee of Bhagavan Ramana and Kanchi Acharya but this incident was pointed out by Sri Nochur in his talk  on Japa Yoga .

Why Meditate

*A devotee asked Ramana Maharishi:*
"Why do we need to meditate?
I can say that it is "my mind" - then should it not listen to me and meditate by itself when I tell it to?
Why does it keep running outside all the time?"
*Ramana Maharishi kept silent at that time.*
At about the same time, a squirrel had given birth in the ashram, and unfortunately a few days later the mother squirrel got eaten by a cat.
Ramana Maharishi took the job of taking care of the baby squirrels. He kept them inside a cage that was kept in the mediation hall.
After a few days when everyone was sitting in the meditation hall, the same cat came inside. It so happened that the baby squirrels rushed out of the cage at the same time.
Ramana Maharishi got up hurriedly, caught all the baby squirrels one by one and put them back in the cage, shut and locked the door firmly.
He then turned to the devotee who had asked the above question and calmly said - *"These poor little squirrels do not have the maturity to know the dangers of the outside world, that if it goes out, the cat will make a meal of them.
When they get that maturity, they will go hide inside, by themselves.
Until they get the maturity, we have to keep putting them inside.
It is the same thing with our mind. Our mind does not know that if it goes to the outside world, there is nothing but Suffering and Confusion. It keeps running out in ignorance and start Wandering aimlessly with no purpose & meaning.
When it gets the maturity, it will go inside by itself to seek Peace, to gain strength to Focus on Life to make it more purposeful and give Life more meaning.
Until then, it is our job to put it inside with effort - which we do in Meditation."
« Last Edit: May 29, 2017, 06:52:58 AM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Orihh

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2254 on: June 15, 2017, 02:02:56 PM »
Does anyone know if Annamalai Swami realized the Self?  I haven't read his book by David Godman, but I've seen an interview of his and have heard stories about him.  I didn't consider that he could've been a jnani until I saw somebody saying so on a website...
Om Namo Saradamma

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2255 on: June 18, 2017, 10:39:51 PM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2256 on: June 19, 2017, 07:41:19 AM »
Dear Orihh,

Please do not worry about whether AS realized Atman or not. Please do your duty.
Please do Atma Vicharam carefully and attain the Self and that is enough.   

People in the Asramam says that AS had attained the Brahman.  And that is all.

Arunachala Siva.

Orihh

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2257 on: June 19, 2017, 08:55:01 AM »
I understand, thank you.
Om Namo Saradamma

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2258 on: June 20, 2017, 06:07:38 PM »
CONVERSATIONS WITH ANNAMALAI SWAMI
Saint Tayumanuvar once said, 'Why all these maha yogas [great yogas]? All these yogas are maya!'
If you try to meditate without understanding that your real nature is Self, and Self alone, your meditation practice will only
lead you to more mental bondage.
Bhagavan once said. To keep the mind in the Self all you have to do is remain still'.
To realize the Self you don't actually have to do anything except be still. Just give up identifying with the mind and hold onto the Self. That is enough. Be still and cultivate the awareness of ?I am the Self; the Self is all'. What difficulties can arise from doing a simple practice like this?
Q: The mind doesn't want to be ignored. It wants to spin round and round forever. I came to you because I thought that you might be able to help me to gain some control over my wayward thoughts.
AS: 'Who came here for help?' Find out who that person is. Don't automatically assume that he exists and that he needs help with his problems. If you think like this your problems will increase, not decrease.
Identifying oneself with the body and the mind results in
ignorance of the Self. This is how the ego takes birth. Detaching ourselves and disengaging from the body and the mind results in the death of the ego. Bhagayan once said to me: The one who limits the Self by believing himself to be the body and the mind has ?killed? his own Self.
For killing the Self he has to be punished. The punishment is birth and death and continuous misery.'
Living by the Words of Bhagavan, p. 287/88
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2259 on: June 22, 2017, 08:21:34 AM »
205-Questions asked and Ma (Anadmayi Ma ) answers.....
(Continued from post 204)
Q-Those who cure the sting of a scorpion repeat their mantra only once a year for three hours while others cannot do anything effective in spite of performing japa of the name of Rama throughout the year. What is the reason for this?
Ma-Here something has to be made clear. Mahatmas say, do not even give a thought to the result of your devotions. To engage in japa of the name of Rama and at the same time to look for the benefit to be derived from it is not right. It just cannot be that Rama will not remove your sorrow. The person who is able to cure scorpion bite cannot cure anything else, as for instance snake bite. There are different mantras for snake bite. All these mantras and tantras are contained within God. Shiva and Vishnu have to be invoked by separate mantras. The mantras originating from Rishis have definite power. Just as when I exclaim "father", you will reply, "yes!" When called in anger you would respond in a different manner. By mantra japa the threefold suffering of the world is appeased. Just as snake poison is counteracted by certain special mantras, so it is possible to bring to a standstill the torturous course of this poisonous world by the power of God's holy name. If you utter the name of Rama with your last breath you will conquer death itself. Keep on repeating "Rama, Rama" and do not even look for the results to be obtained. Actually, if you hanker after results it must be understood that you are not seeking immortality. As you sow, so exactly will you reap. The results of your evil ways are most certainly accumulating in the measure as you practice them. When there is a desire for the fruit of action, you are bound to reap it. Who is God? From where do you derive the capacity to utter "I"? God is the mechanic who runs the machine, it is He who is making everyone move. Keep on repeating "Rama, Rama." The more you do so the keener will your inner eagerness grow. The sadhaka thinks he is dying. "Rama" means arama, rest and peace. Atmarama, the Rama in your soul, will not let you die, on the contrary your eagerness to realise God will increase even more. Thereby your impure desires will be blotted out and the name of Rama will never again forsake you. Oh Rama, how comforting it is to utter Thy name!
Jai Ma.
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2260 on: June 25, 2017, 09:51:44 AM »
A man asked the Maharshi to say something to him. When asked what he wanted to know, he said that he knew nothing and wanted to hear something from the Maharshi.
M.: You know that you know nothing. Find out that knowledge. That is liberation (mukti).
-Talk 12.
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Orihh

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2261 on: June 25, 2017, 02:48:53 PM »
I have a few questions if anyone is willing to say anything about them:

What is the difference between chanting mantra aloud and repeating mantra in the mind?  What purpose does either serve, and why?

When practicing japa, is it okay if the meaning of each word that is repeated is thought about and then pictured/imagined? For an example, if one takes up the mantra "Om Namah Shivaya", should the devotee say or think "Om", then think of Brahman, then say or think "Namah", imagine prostrating, then say or think "Shivaya", and think of and picture Shiva?

If the "I"-thought sinks into the heart through Self-Enquiry because it has no thoughts to cling on to, how then will the "I"-thought sink into the heart if it is clinging to japa?

EDIT: Clarification
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 03:14:51 PM by Orihh »
Om Namo Saradamma

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2262 on: June 25, 2017, 07:55:02 PM »
Dear Orihh,

It is said that when the mantra chanted aloud it has the power to affect the body first and Your surroundings also. When it is done for few months or so,Its vibration and the energy it brings takes over the body,and we can feel it. It calms,soothes... That is why some teachers say that it is better to chant the mantra loudly first,and when You can feel Its effect clearly,to start to chant it silently.
Then,all the power of the mantra is on the mind. Sure,it is advisable to be alone when You chant it,especially when You are chanting it aloud.
You use it until it does its purpose. Usually,we become aware when the mantra is no longer needed. Then,the next stage is dyana,and then dropping of all of this. So,this is the answer on Your last question :"If the "I"-thought sinks into the heart through Self-Enquiry because it has no thoughts to cling on to, how then will the "I"-thought sink into the heart if it is clinging to japa?". The mind simply does not cling onto japa anymore in that stage. It drops everything,the mind is pure enough,so to say,and this 'I' can sink into the Heart. The japa should not become the hindrance. Well,somehow i think when the love is there,its all unfolds how it should. When the love and dedication are there,japa takes over,and it goes by itself. Our whole body starts vibrating with it,and it is not the part of our effort anymore,so there is no question of dropping also.
In a way,the japa cleans the mind,and brings awareness of our chosen God,and eventually,it brings awareness on our very Self in the end,since the God our Self are one and the same. Which is sure the main purpose. But i feel it is not correct to say this only,because the Japa is much more than this. It is Faith,it is Trust,it is the God Himself. That is why it is very important to have the faith in the japa,to have love and devotion towards Your chosen image of God.

I think it is best to repeat it with love and thinking about that what You are saying,like You do. But do it how it comes to You,how You feel it and see it. Love and Trust are very important. Then there is no struggling. They also say it is not advisable if You find it very difficult,and if it is just dull repeating. Japa has the power in itself,and brings the merit anyway,since it is Sacred word,but the best way to do it is to be completely aware on its meaning.

What i can tell You from my own experience,and i am not some expert in this field,is,when You come to the stage when the death seems to be on the corner,when all seems to be dark and lost,and everything loses its purpose,when the fear overtakes You,do not run away from it. Drop it only when becomes impossible.
Or,when the times comes to drop it,and You do it,do not come back to it because of fear. This is what i saw and where i made mistakes. Also,it is very very advisable to remain silent while You are doing this practice,and not to entertain many thoughts on the happenings and the people around You,especially negative. Divert Your awareness on the japa.

Anyway,do not think too much in future,and about all this i said about dropping and all. Just go step by step,do Your practice of japa,have faith in what you are doing,and all will happen as it should.

All i said this is a part of all what i have read on this subject,and some is from my own experience. I truly do not know if its is like this for everyone,or is it same for all. I have noticed it is not,but,really,cannot tell.

'Ishvara is the Atman as seen or grasped by the mind. His highest name is Om; so repeat it, meditate on it, and think of all its wonderful nature and attributes. Repeating the Om continually is the only true worship. It is not a word, it is God Himself.'-Swami Vivekananda

Q: The repetition of the name of God is very common in India. Is there any virtue in it?
M: When you know the name of a thing, or a person, you can find it easily. By calling God by His name you make Him come to you.
Q: In what shape does He come?
M: According to your expectations. If you happen to be unlucky and some saintly soul gives you a mantra for good luck and you repeat it with faith and devotion, your bad luck is bound to turn. Steady faith is stronger than destiny. Destiny is the result of causes, mostly accidental, and is therefore loosely woven. Confidence and good hope will overcome it easily.
Q: When a mantra is chanted, what exactly happens?
M: The sound of mantra creates the shape which will embody the Self. The Self can embody any shape -- and operate through it. After all, the Self is expressing itself in action -- and a mantra is primarily energy in action. It acts on you, it acts on your surroundings.
Q: The mantra is traditional. Must it be so?

M: Since time immemorial a link was created between certain words and corresponding energies and reinforced by numberless repetitions. It is just like a road to walk on. It is an easy way -- only faith is needed. You trust the road to take you to your destination.


Constant repetition of words (Japa) is a kind of madness but deliberate madness. All repetitiveness is tamas, but repeating the name of God is a satwa-tamas due its higher purpose. Because of the satwa the tamas will wear out and will take the shape of detachment, relinquishment, aloofness, immutability.  The purpose of Japa is to conserve oneself, that means the knowingness (the knowledge ?I am?) is to be returned. Japa in Marathi means to guard, to protect. You should protect your beingness by Japa.
Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj


edited.

With love,
« Last Edit: June 25, 2017, 08:31:53 PM by Jewell »

Orihh

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2263 on: June 26, 2017, 07:02:10 AM »
Thank you so much, Jewell, for such an in-depth response!  There are plenty of things I can take away from this.

On the path of bhakti or surrenderance, love towards the Guru, God, the Self, and everything and everyone else is the essence of practice, correct? This will take you all the way.  What I don't understand completely is the idea of faith and hope - this is a bit ambiguous to me.  Faith means believing in the power of the Guru, God, or the Self, but does it also mean believing that one will succeed?  Is this also the meaning of hope?  That one will eventually reach para-bhakti after arduous devotion?  If so, at what point does such a faith become counter-productive?  I always read that having expectations to achieve any sort of success is completely incorrect practice.
Om Namo Saradamma

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2264 on: June 26, 2017, 03:27:09 PM »
Dear Orihh,

Quote
Faith means believing in the power of the Guru, God, or the Self, but does it also mean believing that one will succeed?

Faith is exactly believing that one will succeed! We must have faith in ourselves.
Later,that faith is not that we will succeed,it is that we already are That what our Guru said we are.

Regarding hope,i consider it little bit different. Hope is indeed a sort of expectation. But the faith is some deep assurance and knowledge. -that we will succeed,that God and our Guru is guiding us,and in the end,that we are That what He says we are.
Somehow it is a wordless assurance,in spite of all fear and confusion,felt deeply in our heart...

I believe that faith cannot in any way be counter-productive. Only hope can,because it is a sort of expectation. True faith is much more than that.
But there is nothing wrong to have hope. We all have it,and we all expect something. It is what is driving us towards our goal. Sometimes it is not even obvious to us. Actually,it is not obvious most of the time. It is the mind that is goal oriented,but it is natural in some stages of progress. Only later it can be seen for what it really is.
Love,if genuine,will take care of this all.

edited.

With love,
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 03:51:41 PM by Jewell »