Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 341945 times)

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2115 on: September 02, 2016, 09:49:09 PM »
Friends,
Since I have alluded to the inaccuracies in 'Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi' (The Original English version) and 'Sri Bhagavath Vachanamrutam'....thought of sharing how the two compare.

Here is talk 248 (Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi)
Talk 248.
Quote
Sri Bhagavan said: The Jnani says, 'I am the body'; The ajnani says, "I am the body"; what is the difference? 'I am' is the truth. The body is the limitation. The ajnani limits the 'I' to the body. 'I' remains independent of the body in sleep. The same 'I' is now in the wakeful state. Though imagined to be within the body, 'I' is without the body. The wrong notion is not 'I am the body.' 'I' says so. The body is insentient and cannot say so. The mistake lies in thinking that 'I' is what ?I? is not. ?I? is not insentient. 'I' cannot be the inert body. The body?s movements are confounded with 'I' and misery is the result.Whether the body works or not, 'I' remains free and happy. The ajnani?s 'I' is the body only. That is the whole error. The jnani?s ?I? includes the body and everything else. Clearly some intermediate entity arises and gives rise to the confusion
.

I happened to receive the above talk in a mail....and thought that the person who sent it had keyed in wrongly,especially the highlighted phrases in the above passage...for.... which jnani has upheld the 'I am the Body' view?....In fact that is the very root of the problem and the passage further goes on to say ' The wrong notion is not 'I am the body.'!!!
I looked up the talk 248 and found that the friend has indeed copied it faithfully!...so,the mistake is there in the original published version only.

I then referred to the tamizh translation of the original (Bhagavath Vachanamrutam by Sri Viswanatha Swami) and found it as follows:
பகவான்:ஞானிக்கும் அஞ்ஞானிக்கும் உடல் நானேயாம்.ஆனால் அஞ்ஞானி
'நான் இருக்கிறேன்' என்னும் உண்மையை உடலளவாய்க் குறுக்கிக் கொள்கிறான். அதாவது உடலே
நானென்று. தூக்கத்தில் உடலை அபேஷியாமலேயே நான் என்பது சுதந்திரமாயிருக்கிறது. அதே
'நான்' விழிப்பு நிலைமையில் இப்போதும் இருக்கிறது. 'நான்' என்பது உடலுள்ளே இருப்பது
போலத்தோன்றினும் அது உடலற்றதேயாம்.உடல் ஜடமாதலின் அது 'உடல் நான்' என்று
சொல்லாது. ஆத்மாவுக்கு ஏதோவொன்றைப் பற்றிய நான் என்னும் எழுச்சியில்லை. இடையில்
ஏதோவொன்று கிளம்பி 'உடல் நான்' என்று சொல்கிறது. அது உடலின் இயக்கங்களைத் தனதாய்
அபிமானித்து வருந்துகிறது. அவ்வகந்தையற்றுத் தூய அஹம்ஸ்புரணமாய் விளங்குபவனே ஞானி.
அவனுக்கு உடலும் உள்ளதனைத்தும் நானேயாம். அவன் உடலுக்கு எது நேரினும், அத்துடன்
சம்பந்தப்படாது என்றும் ஆனந்தமயனாகவே இருப்பான்.

The Tamizh version is clear and true to what Sri Bhagavan has always maintained.
"ஞானிக்கும் அஞ்ஞானிக்கும் உடல் நானேயாம்"....this can be translated as follows:"For both the jnani and the ajnani,the body is verily I"(This is not the same as is found in the original- The Jnani says, 'I am the body'; The ajnani says, "I am the body"....for the jnani will never say 'I am the body'!).

There are some instances like this where the original English version is muddled....although there are such inaccuracies(grave ones!)... this should not be taken as a criticism of the entire work or detract from  its usefulness.

Namaskar
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 09:56:29 PM by Ravi.N »

Nagaraj

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5130
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2116 on: September 03, 2016, 10:58:22 AM »
This appears in ulladu naarpadu:

உடனானே தன்னை யுணரார்க் குணர்ந்தார்க்
குடலளவே நான்ற னுணரார்க் குடலுள்ளே
தன்னுணர்ந்தார்க் கெல்லையறத் தானொளிரு நானிதுவே
யின்னவர்தம் பேதமென வெண்ணுவாய் முன்னாம்

பொருள்:
மாமிசப் பொதியாகிய உடம்பு தன்னை உணராத அஞ்ஞானிக்கும், தன்னை உணர்ந்த ஞானிக்கும் நானாகும். அஞ்ஞானிக்கு நான் என்னும் சொல்லின் உணர்வு உடலின் அளவேயாகும். உடலுள்ளே தன்னை உணர்ந்த ஞானிக்கு நான் என்னும் ஆன்மா எல்லையற்று (உடம்பையும் தன்னுள்கொண்டு) எங்கும் தன்மயமாய்ப் பிரகாசிக்கும். இருவருக்கும் உள்ள வேறுபாடு இதுவே என்று அறிவாயாக.

In verse 17 he says that both for those who have not known self and for those who have known it, the body is certainly ?I?, but that the difference between them is that to those who have not known self, ?I? is limited to the measure of the body, whereas to those who have known self, ?I? shines without any limit (and hence neither the body nor anything else exists as other than it).

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Sadhak

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 247
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2117 on: September 03, 2016, 01:31:25 PM »
Dear Nagaraj,

The English translation of verse 17 in the Ashram parayana book is similar to yours.

To those who do not know the Self and to those who do, the body is the 'I'. But to those who do not know the Self, the 'I' is bounded by the body, while to those who though within the body know the Self, the 'I' shines boundless. Such is the difference between them.

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2118 on: September 03, 2016, 09:33:43 PM »
Nagaraj,
Yes....The friend came up with this reference from uLLadhu nArpadhu.
The Translation should have the comma  after 'udal uLLe'......i.e 'குடலளவே நான்ற னுணரார்க் குடலுள்ளே' is to be taken as a complete sentence(or phrase)....meaning that to those who know not the Self,the 'I' is limited to the body and is within the body(perceived as such)....whereas to those who have known the Self the 'I' is limitless and shines of its own accord(self luminous)....Deem this as the difference between them.

To those who know the Self, even the world is within the 'I'(Like Mother Yashoda seeing the universe within the mouth of Child Sri Krishna!) .....what to speak of the limited body!It is for those who do not perceive the Self that the 'I' is perceived as something within the body and limited to it....for them,beyond the 'Body' it is the 'Not I' or the 'other'(anya)

(Sri Bhagavan never admits any actual difference.for the very difference between those who know and know not is not admissible to him!yet for the purpose of our understanding,he says 'Deem this' to be the difference)

Namaskar
« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 09:40:18 PM by Ravi.N »

atmavichar100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2274
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2119 on: September 04, 2016, 09:06:51 AM »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

atmavichar100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2274
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2120 on: September 04, 2016, 10:21:17 PM »


SAMITHADHAANAM


September 4, 2016
​?SAMITHADHANAM? ? Not to be missed
https://srinivassharmablog.wordpress.com/2016/09/04/samithadhaanam/

SAMITHADHANAM
What is Samithadhanam?
it is a ritual to be performed by a Brahmi boy after Sacred Thread Function , usually after Sandhyavandhanam ! ?SAMITHADHANAM? is a ?SUN WORSHIP? ! This is continued till his marriage .
It is a kind of worship , offering prayer to the FIRE GOD or SURYA i.e Sun. This prayer offer in itself is an environmental cleansing act .
How is it performed ?
1. Usually, a four-sided elevated platform is created (Bricks model or nowadays , even Cement Model is available) ?. Camphor is placed in the centre and is lit.
2. While chanting the mantras , the sticks (from branches) of Peepal Tree (Arasa-Maram or Ashvatha-Tree) is placed on the fire accordingly .
3. Sticks will get burnt and the residue (Ashes) of the pooja is kept on the forehead , shoulders , throat ?.
4. This is regarded as a purification process , not only for the person who is performing it , but also for the environment !!
Why is Peepal tree?s branch sticks been used ?
Peepal tree has its significance not only mythologically but also scientifically !
Traditionally , people are of the belief that even Goddess Lakshmi dwell in the tree on Saturdays . Women who are not blessed with a child tie a red thread around the trunk or o its branches asking the deities to bless her and fulfill her desire .
Scientifically , this tree has the power to purify the human body system ? especially NERVOUS System . Peepal tree is of great medicinal value. Its leaves serve as a wonderful laxative as well as tonic for the body and as a cure for about 50 types of disorders including Asthma, diabetes , Diarrhea , Epilepsy , Gastric problems , inflammatory disorders. It is especially useful for patients suffering from Jaundice. The leaves of Peepal are highly effective in treating heart disorders. It helps to control the palpitation of heart  and combat the cardiac weakness. Ayurveda makes an extensive use of the leaves of peepal due to the numerous benefits it provides.
Does this smoke while performing Samithadhanam cause pollution ?
This is the most awkward question asked by many of my friends in my batch while a HOMAM was conducted in my school. At that point of time , even though being a regular performer of SAMITHADHANAM , I couldnt give them the best answer due to lack of scientific reasoning.
The appropriate justification is that the smoke caused here is not something like the smoke caused through CARS BUSES  etc? (where harmful chemicals like BUTENINE is released) , thus has its own ill effects !
The smoke when the branch sticks of Peepal are burnt during SAMITHADHANAM performance is a kind of BIO-Fuel when burnt , and the release of smoke from it is said to be of   a medicinal purification process (specifically for Nervous Systems) , and might just create a minute CO (Carbon-monoxide) which is a gas that is required to maintain a balance in the atmosphere !
Furthermore, what I personally feel is the power of the positive vibrations of the mantras which is chanted alongside during SAMITHADHANAM ! It has its own GODLINESS in it and the same can be realisesd wonly when performed.
A little upset about the fact that not many are practicing this and I have to come to a mindset that it is purely their loss ( which is a loss to the welfare of all the people too) ?. Nothing can be done! Hope practices are kept alive with the scope of extra-ordinary communication transfer facilities , so these are not left uncared for !
Parents can also enable their sons to perform this by motivating their sons like how my mother made it possible for me !!!
I have to cite this incident : you all might be aware of the BHOPAL GAS TRAGEDY which took away the lives of many , but the chemical harmful gas didn?t have any effect on the people and their houses in which SAMITHADHANAM and HOMAMS where regularly performed !
It is clearly evident from all this that our traditions and cultural practices has its own divinity and supreme significance ? not just that , but also has scientific reasons and justifications behind it too!
PROUD TO BE AN INDIAN !!!
P.S :- What motivated me to do a research and find out the real reasons of my regular practice was just because of the people who knew nothing about its sginificance and had words to say that SAMITHADHANAM causes POLLUTION !

However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46043
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2121 on: September 08, 2016, 01:19:00 PM »
Today is Kulachirai Nayanar's Liberation Day.

Avani Anuradha star day.

I have given the life story of Nayanar in the serial posts on 63 Saints.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46043
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2122 on: September 09, 2016, 07:45:38 AM »


In any Sadhana, concentration is the essence of success.
If it is Puja, cocentrate on the Puja, on the idol to whom
you do Puja, concentrate on every flower that you offer,
concentrate on the mantra you chant.  Live in total concentration,
till you offer Arti, place it on your eyes
and complete the Puja.

If it is mantra japa, do not count the mantras.  If you
do so, your mind will go only into the counting mathematics.
Do it without counting, as far as practicable.

If it is meditation, instead of mediating on Pure Space,
try to meditate on a symbol, say Bhagavan Ramana's face
or feet.  Chant mantra within your lips and if any thought
drags you out, you mentally imagine, that you are placing
a flower on His feet and come back to the meditating mode.

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46043
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2123 on: September 10, 2016, 12:10:57 PM »
Today is the Liberation Day of Kungilya Kalaya Nayanar.

Avani, Moolam.

The life story of Nayanar,. has been given in the serial post of 63 Saiva Saints, see my serial post.


Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46043
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2124 on: September 11, 2016, 07:02:59 AM »

Man's desire for wealth is limitless.  Saint Tayumanavar says:  "Even
if one is given to rule the entire land, he would desire to conquer the oceans!" 
Once a devotee prayed to Siva intently for wealth.  Siva
appeared before him and asked: What do you want?"  He answered.
Then Siva pointed his index finger towards the house.  The whole house turned
into a golden palace!  The Siva entered his house.  What more do you want?"
The devotee grinned and showed the wooden cupboards, steel cupboards, stainless
steel vessels, etc.,  Siva waved his index finger towards these objects.  All turned into gold.  The
devotee was still grinning at him expectantly!  Siva was amused, and he asked him: 
"Anything else?"  He said unashamedly:  "I want your index finger!"

Siva already lost half his body to Uma.  If someone asked him the index finger...
What is the end?  He disappeared!

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46043
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2125 on: September 11, 2016, 07:07:08 AM »


Both Manikkavachagar's Tiruvembavai and AndaL's Tirupavai,
are having the undercurrent of Saranagati or surrender.  Bhagavan
Ramana used to say: "If you cannot do self inquriy, then you do
surrender and keep quiet."   But these two compositions are viewed
in various angles by devotees, as the six blind men seeing the
elephant.

One day, a rasika of music came to a Sri Vaishanva scholar and said:
"What is there in Tirupavai, sir?  It is all splendid music.  I use to lie in bed at 6.30 AM (!)
in Dhanur month and listen to M.L. Vasantakumari's rendering of Tirupavai, while I am
half-asleep. O What a music sir!  All thirty songs are in thirty different ragas!  Wonderful!" 

Next day, a great Tamizh pandit came to that Sri Vaishnava scholar and told him:  "What is
there in Tirupavai, sir?  It is all delightful Tamizh poetry.  AndaL herself says 'I am singing
thirty songs in Sangam Tamizh.'  Wonderful!"

A third one came to the same Sri Vaishnava scholar and said:  "What is there in Tirupavai, sir? 
AndaL delightfully explains how to prepare sweet pongal on the Dharnur month mornings.
Take best raw rice, best jaggery, best cashews, cardamom, and dry grapes, nicely fry them
in ghee.  And then pour generously pure cow's milk ghee. It will be delightful like Brahmananda, sir,
"Mooda nei peythu muzhangai vazhi vara..."  She says, pour ghee as if a film of ghee
would spread on the sweet pongal and then take it shamelessly that
the overflowing ghee trickles down your elbow!"

So every one looks at Tirupavai in their own angle.  Like Brahman or
Siva or Narayana, Tirupavai or Tiruvembavai, is many faceted!

Arunachala Siva.

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46043
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2126 on: September 13, 2016, 07:32:00 AM »



Tests put forth by god by way of misery and pain,
should be overcome by one's own perseverance.  There
is no way out.  Painkillers are not the way to overcome
pain [as in the case of Michael Jackson].  Perseverance
and forbearance alone helps.  You can understand this
from this story.  A mangoose, after Dharmaputra's great
yaga [sacrificial rights] where thousands were fed, came to
roll on the left overs of food.  This mangoose had its one side golden
and the other side normal.  After rolling over the left overs, the mangoose
told Dharmaputra:  Your yaga [penance] is useless.  My other side has not
got golden color.  Dharmaputra was wondering:  "What!  I have spent
gold coins like water and conducted this mass feeding and you are not happy?"
The mangoose said:  "Yes.  What is the use of having pots of gold and spending
a small portion of it for feeding others. You have not left yet your pride.  Listen
to this story.  I had been to a poor man's house.  He used to get three dry rotis
[bread loaves] from God everyday.  He used to lend one to the poorer man at his
house entrance and then feed himself and his wife with the two remaining loaves.
One day, I went there.  After feeding the poorer man at the gate, he and his
wife were about to eat the remaining two loaves.  When I went there, he gave me
one loaf.  I said I was still hungry. His wife readily gave me the another loaf.
After my eating, there were some crumbs on the floor.  He and his wife took
those crumbs and then drank water and went to bed.  I rolled on that floor, I became
golden on one my side!  I came to your palace to test that self-abnegation.
But it is not there!  Perseverance, self abnegation, self control are the essentials for
any good act in life."   

Arunachala Siva.   

Ravi.N

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4051
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2127 on: September 14, 2016, 08:37:01 PM »
Friends,
As the saying goes ,the taste of the pudding lies in the eating.Ditto with spiritual living as well and this is what is emphasized by the great ones.
In the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna,the master says:
Suppose, there are treasures in a room. If you want to see them and lay hold of them, you must take the trouble to get the key and unlock the door. After that you must take the treasures out. But suppose the room is locked, and standing outside the door you say to yourself: 'Here I have opened the door. Now I have broken the lock of the chest. Now I have taken out the treasure.' Such brooding near the door will not enable you to achieve anything. You must practise discipline.

He further says:
How long should one reason about the texts of the scriptures? So long as one does not have direct realization of God. How long does the bee buzz about? As long as it is not sitting on a flower. No sooner does it light on a flower and begin to sip honey than it keeps quiet.

In akshara mana malai,verse 28 Sri Bhagavan emphasizes this aspect:

சாப்பா டுன்னைச் சார்ந்துண வாயான்
சாந்தமாய்ப் போவ னருணாசலா .


Depending on thee as food,as food I shall become serene.(The Taittriya upanishad says this very thing :"annavaan annaadO bhavati".
The partaker of the essence becomes the essence.

So,the key aspect of sadhana is to have this genuine hunger and 'approach the Food as Food' ,eat it and be it.


Namaskar
« Last Edit: September 15, 2016, 05:19:08 AM by Ravi.N »

atmavichar100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2274
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2128 on: September 22, 2016, 01:33:12 PM »
Don't give up peace to chase after thoughts which are not even real! Let the thoughts come and let them go, what is the trouble?

~ Papaji

...from the book 'The Truth Is
'
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha

Subramanian.R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 46043
    • View Profile
Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2129 on: September 23, 2016, 02:52:56 PM »
Yesterday was the liberation day of Nandanar.

Purattasi - Rohini star day.

Nandanar who was a down caste had to undergo severe tests of bathing in fire before he was
permitted to see Natraja of Chidambaram. I have given his detailed biography in my serial posts
on 63 Saiva Saints.

Arunachala Siva.