Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 285114 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2040 on: August 16, 2016, 12:36:43 AM »
Sadhak,
Thanks for playing the Devil's advocate...ha,ha.

Quote
Man is not able to control the path of a virus but thinks he controls his own destiny. Ha ha ha.  Belief.

Man shapes his destiny ....whether he 'controls' it or not.Truth!Not belief!.....ha,ha.....One can only take control of oneself....not anyone else....be it a virus...Truth!...Ha,ha.

Quote
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
-Robert Frost.

"There are two ways available for every person in this world: the way of the good and the way of the pleasant"-Katopanishad
http://www.swami-krishnananda.org/upanishad/upan_10.html

Namaskar
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 01:13:30 AM by Ravi.N »

Sadhak

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2041 on: August 16, 2016, 05:58:11 AM »
Dear Ravi,

"Man shapes his destiny ....whether he 'controls' it or not.Truth!Not belief!.....ha,ha.....One can only take control of oneself....not anyone else....be it a virus...Truth!...Ha,ha."

Man 'shapes' his destiny but it is out of control!  Truth.  Ha ha ha.  Man tries to control his destiny without realizing who he is. Truth. Ha ha ha.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2042 on: August 16, 2016, 06:16:23 AM »
sadhak,

Quote
Man tries to control his destiny without realizing who he is. Truth. Ha ha ha.

Man only 'tries' but does not exercise control....which is what is required....He can only control what needs to be controlled...and what can be controlled is his mind...and he can exercise control only  if he truly wants to and has the conviction that it can be done....and this can be done only if he begins to exercise in right earnest in whatever little way.Proof of pudding is in the eating and not speculating...ha,ha.

If man realizes who he is,he need not exercise control for there is nothing to 'control' and no 'controller' as well...ha,ha

Namaskar

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2043 on: August 16, 2016, 08:34:55 AM »
Just sharing this in a lighter vein, i had long before received this as a forward -

A young couple came into the church office to fill out a pre-marriage questionnaire form. The young man, who had never talked to a pastor before, was quite nervous and the pastor tried to put him at ease.

When they came to the question, "Are you entering this marriage of your own free will?" there was a long pause.

Finally, the girl looked over at the apprehensive young man and said, "Put down yes."



Fine example of fate and free will

 :)
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Sadhak

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2044 on: August 16, 2016, 08:46:47 AM »
Ravi,

"Man only 'tries' but does not exercise control....which is what is required".

Man tries and tries but does not exercise control. He claims he 'knows' he cannot control but still tries and tries!! understanding does not come easily!! Ha ha ha. He refuses to learn. Ha ha ha. Surrender is just talk. Ha ha ha. Just like the alcoholic who 'knows' drinking is bad but keeps drinking anyway!!!. Ha ha ha.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2045 on: August 16, 2016, 09:16:37 AM »
Veering off topic!...Exercise the control in small ways...If you commit to be in some place at 11 O'Clock,be there at 11 O'Clock...Not to say 'I will try to be at 11 O'Clock' and land there at 11:30 hrs and give some excuse for not making it...through such seemingly trivial 'exercises',the will power develops and the mind learns to listen to one's commands and cooperates...and this is the only sane and practical way there is....Again,one may say what if one dies and not able to make it at 11:00hrs!...That is an exception and in any case no control needs to be exercised there!Control is to be Exercised where it is called for.

The Alcoholic has chosen to be an alcoholic and so is an alcoholic by choice....He can choose not to be one and cease to be one.

'It is as easy for a strong man to be strong as for a weak man to be weak'-Emerson





« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 09:24:27 AM by Ravi.N »

Sadhak

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2046 on: August 16, 2016, 09:30:11 AM »
Dear Nagaraj,

Nice story.  Any married fellow must certainly know that there is no such thing as free will!! Unless it is so ordained by his wife!!


Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2047 on: August 16, 2016, 10:42:04 AM »
Friends,
An excerpt from The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna:
Thus conversing, the Master came to the west end of the verandah. M stood by his side. Sri Ramakrishna had repeated again and again that God cannot be realized without discrimination and renunciation. This made M. extremely worried. He had married and was then a young man of twenty-eight, educated in college in the Western way. Having a sense of duty, he asked himself, "Do discrimination and dispassion mean giving up 'woman and gold'?" He was really at a loss to know what to do.
M. (to the Master): "What should one do if one's wife says: 'You are neglecting me. I shall commit suicide?' "
MASTER (in a serious tone): "Give up such a wife if she proves an obstacle in the way of spiritual life. Let her commit suicide or anything else she likes. The wife that hampers her husband's spiritual life is an ungodly wife."
Immersed in deep thought, M. stood leaning against the wall. Narendra and the other devotees remained silent a few minutes. The Master exchanged several words with them; then, suddenly going to M., he whispered in his ear: "But if a man has sincere love for God, then all come under his control - the king, wicked persons, and his wife. Sincere love of God on the husband's part may eventually help the wife to lead a spiritual life. If the husband is good, then through the grace of God the wife may also follow his example."
This had a most soothing effect on M.'s worried mind. All the while he had been thinking: "Let her commit suicide. Whatcan I do?"

Namaskar

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2048 on: August 16, 2016, 11:35:31 AM »
Today is Pattinathar guru puja,

The exact liberation day including the moon digit is not known.

Arunachala Siva
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 11:37:08 AM by Subramanian.R »

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2049 on: August 16, 2016, 04:54:04 PM »
please tell me one thing.  as regards me, I am fully fluent on both Vishnu and lalitha sahasranama. 

nowadays my mind simply refuses and is not inclined to chant all these beautiful sthothras.....all it is dwelling is on desires, lust and fear .

if someone has to learn these stothras it is different, but for someone who has heard this and can chant without seeing book ( along with others) ,  if then also I am not chanting, simply immersed in endless desires and fears, how to come out? please suggest practical tips.

Dear Krishnan, you had written in the other topic as above. I am taking a liberty to respond to you. You asked for practical tips. Infact you have been asking about this quite a number of times in the past.

Krishnan, to be honest, there are no such practical steps in Truth! It is only how you take it! This moment, Now, you decide how you want to live your life and LIVE UP TO IT THAT WAY. This is the only secret, and this is the only real practical advise.

Do not wait for some glorious moment in some future that something miraculous may happen and our life changes suddenly.

The only true miracle lies in your own hand, in your own conviction and in your own courage. Be the Change you want to be. A saying goes in Sanskrit - उद्योगिनं पुरुषसिंहमुपैति लक्ष्मीः Goddess Lakshmi goes behind only those who are industrious and enterprising lion among men!

If you, or for that matter anybody feel that they have to overcome something, discard something and aspire to live in a befitting manner, then it is only in their own wisdom to start living it.

Ask yourself how you want to live! What do you want to do! How do you want to be! How do you want to spend the time! What is it that you have to overcome!

All the answers are within yourself. If there is something one has to overcome, nobody else can over come it but yourself. If there is something to overcome, then also know that there is also the power and perseverance gifted to you by the Lord to over that obstacle!

And remember it is not going to be easy! Which is why such a one is called a DHEERA (धीरः)

Wish you all the best!

--
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2050 on: August 16, 2016, 11:30:20 PM »
Krishnan, i have some more thoughts to share.  We all are familiar with the word Tapas. The root - Tap (तप्) means literally to burn! What is beautifully described by the word Penance. Every Sadhaka has to go through this burn up - burning up of ones own vices and defects. Just look at how many great people in the past and even now sincerely doing Tapas. Spiritual perfection does not come so easily. All without exception go through this difficulty. We all need to imbibe the character of Hanuman as Swami Vivekananda says. Please go through the conversation below. It beautifully conveys to us the wonderful spirit we must imbibe in our sadhana. If you truly want it then what stops you? If you realy realy want it no force in the universe can stop you.




Disciple: What ideal should we follow now?

Swamiji: You have now to make the character of Mahavira your ideal. See how at the command of Ramachandra he crossed the ocean. He had no care for life or death! He was a perfect master of his senses and wonderfully sagacious. You have now to build your life on this great ideal of personal service. Through that, all other ideals will gradually manifest in life. Obedience to the Guru without questioning, and strict observance of Brahmacharya -- this is the secret of success. As on the one hand Hanuman represent the ideal of service, so on the other hand he represents leonine courage, striking the whole world with awe. He has not the least hesitation in sacrificing his life for the good of Rama. A supreme indifference to everything except the service of Rama, even to the attainment of the status of Brahma and Shiva, the great World - gods! Only the carrying out of Shri Rama's best is the one vow of this life! Such whole - hearted devotion is wanted. Playing on the Khol and Kartal and dancing in the frenzy of Kirtana has degenerated the whole people. They are, in the first place, a race of dyspeptics -- and if in addition to this they dance and jump in that way, how can they bear the strain? In trying to imitate the highest Sadhana, the preliminary qualification for which is absolute purity, they have been swallowed in dire Tamas. In every district and village you may visit, you will find only the sound of the Khol and Kartal! Are not drums made in the country? Are not trumpets and kettle - drums available in India? Make the boys hear the deep - toned sound of these instruments. Hearing from boyhood the sound of these effeminate forms of music and listening to the kirtana, the country is well - nigh converted into a country of women. What more degradation can you expect? Even the poet's imagination fails to draw this picture! The Damaru[1] and horn have to be sounded, drums are to be beaten so as to raise the deep and martial notes, and with "Mahavira, Mahavira" on your lips and shouting "Hara, Hara, Vyom, Vyom", the quarters are to be reverberated. The music which awakens only the softer feelings of man is to be stopped now for some time. Stopping the light tunes such as Kheal and Tappa for some time, the people are to be accustomed to hear the Dhrupad music. Through the thunder - roll of the dignified Vedic hymns, life is to be brought back into the country. In everything the austere spirit of heroic manhood is to be revived. In following such an ideal lies the good of the people and the country. If you can build your character after such an ideal, then a thousand others will follow. But take care that you do not swerve an inch from the ideal. Never lose heart. In eating, dressing, or lying, in singing or playing, in enjoyment or disease, always manifest the highest moral courage. Then only will you attain the grace of Mahashakti, the Divine Mother.

Disciple: Sir, at times I am overcome by low spirits, I don't know how.

Swamiji: Then think like this: "Whose child am I? I associate with him and shall I have such weak - mindedness and lowness of spirits?" Stamping down such weakness of mind and heart, stand up, saying, "I am possessed of heroism -- i am possessed of a steady intellect -- i am a knower of Brahman, a man of illumination." Be fully conscious of your dignity by remembering, "I am the disciple of such and such who is the companion - in - life of Shri Ramakrishna, the conqueror of lust and wealth." This will produce a good effect. He who has not this pride has no awakening of Brahman within him. Haven't you heard Ramprasad's song? He used to say, "Whom do I fear in the world, whose sovereign is the

Divine Mother!" Keep such a pride always awake in the mind. Then weakness of mind and heart will no longer be able to approach you. Never allow weakness to overtake your mind. Remember Mahavira, remember the Divine Mother! And you will see that all weakness, all cowardice will vanish at once.

Saying these words, Swamiji came downstairs and took his accustomed seat on a cot in the courtyard. Then, addressing the assembled Sannyasins and Brahmacharins, he said, "Here is the unveiled presence of Brahman. Fie upon those who disregarding It set their mind on other things! Ah! here is Brahman as palpable as a fruit in one's palm. Don't you see? Here!"

These words were spoken in such an appealing way, that every one stood motionless like a figure painted on canvas and felt as if he were suddenly drawn into the depth of meditation. . . . After some time that tension of feeling passed and they regained their normal consciousness.

Next, in the course of a walk, Swamiji spoke to the disciple. "Did you see how everybody had become concentrated today? These are all children of Shri Ramakrishna, and on the very uttering of the words, they felt the truth."

Disciple: Sir, not to speak of them, even my heart was overflowing with an unearthly bliss! But now it appears like a vanished dream.

Swamiji: Everything will come in time. Now, go on working. Set yourself to some work for the good of men sunk in ignorance and delusion. You will see that such experiences will come of themselves.

Disciple: I feel nervous to enter into its labyrinths -- neither have I the strength. The scriptures also say, "Impenetrable is the path of Karma".

Swamiji: What do you wish to do then?

Disciple: To live and hold discussion with one like
you, who has realised the truth of all scriptures and through hearing, thinking, and meditating on the Truth to realise Brahman in this very life. I have no enthusiasm, nor perhaps the strength, for anything else.

Swamiji: If you love that, well, you can go on doing it. And speak about your thoughts and conclusions about the Shastras to others, it will benefit them. So long as there is the body, one cannot live without doing some work or other; therefore one should do such work as is conducive to the good of others. Your own realisations and conclusions about scriptural truths may benefit many a seeker after Truth. Put them into writing which may help many others.

Disciple: First let me realise the Truth, then I shall write. Shri Ramakrishna used to say; "Without the badge of authority, none will listen to you."

Swamiji: There may be many in the world who have got stuck in that stage of spiritual discipline and reasoning through which you are passing, without being able to pass beyond that stage. Your experience and way of thinking, if recorded, may be of benefit to them at least. If you put down in easy language the substance of the discussions which you hold with the Sadhus of this Math, it may help many.

Disciple: Since you wish it, I shall try to do it.

Swamiji: What is the good of that spiritual practice or realisation which does not benefit others, does not conduce to the well - being of people sunk in ignorance and delusion, does not help in rescuing them from the clutches of lust and wealth? Do you think, so long as one Jiva endures in bondage, you will have any liberation? So long as he is not liberated -- it may take several lifetimes -- you will have to be born to help him, to make him realise Brahman. Every Jiva is part of yourself -- which is the rationale of all work for others. As you desire the whole - hearted good of your wife and children, knowing them to be your own, so when a like amount of love and attraction for every Jiva will awaken in you, then I shall know that Brahman is awakening in you, not a moment before. When this feeling of the all - round good of all without respect for caste or colour will awaken in your heart, then I shall know you are advancing towards the ideal.

Disciple: Sir, it is a most tremendous statement that without the salvation of all, there shall be no salvation for an individual! I have never heard of such a wonderful proposition.

Swamiji: There is a class of Vedantists who hold such a view. They say that individual liberation is not the real and perfect form of liberation, but universal and collective liberation is true Mukti. Of course, both merits and defects can be pointed out in that view.

Disciple: According to Vedanta, the state of individualised existence is the root of bondage, and the Infinite Intelligence, through desires and effects of works, appears bound in that limiting condition. When by means of discrimination that limiting condition vanishes and the Jiva is bereft of all adjuncts, then how can there be bondage for the Atman which is of the essence of transcendent Intelligence? He for whom the idea of the Jiva and the world is a persisting reality may think that without the liberation of all he has no liberation. But when the mind becomes bereft of all limiting adjuncts and is merged in Brahman, where is there any differentiation for him? So nothing can operate as a bar to his Mukti.

Swamiji: Yes, what you say is right, and most Vedantins hold that view, which is also flawless. In that view, individual liberation is not barred. But just consider the greatness of his heart who thinks that he will take the whole universe with him to liberation!

Disciple: Sir, it may indicate boldness of heart, but it is not supported by the scriptures.

Swamiji was in an abstracted mood and did not listen to the words. After some time he said: "Day and night think and meditate on Brahman, meditate with great one - pointedness of mind. And during the time of awakeness to outward life, either do some work for the sake of others or repeat in your mind, `Let good happen to Jivas and the world!' `Let the mind of all flow in the direction of Brahman!' Even by such continuous current of thought the world will be benefited. Nothing good in the world becomes fruitless, be it work or thought. Your thought - currents will perhaps rouse the religious feeling of someone in America."

Disciple: Sir, please bless me that my mind may be concentrated on the Truth.

Swamiji: So it will be. If you have earnestness of desire, it will certainly be.
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Nagaraj

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2051 on: August 16, 2016, 11:45:33 PM »
Having presented these thoughts let me also convey one more to conclude my thoughts. You mentioned about being troubled by Tamas and other things.

Let me tell you a time tested method shared by all in our sanathana dharma.

Keep yourself very busy. Work hard. Keep yourself filled with activities from waking up to the time you sleep. Actually this is the secret of Sanyasa. Real sanyasis are not simply sitting doing nothing. They are always in constant work. They are the most busiest of men you will find really - the real ones! Those who are sincere to the core shine! Only the sincere ones are graced!

Over come your Tamas by your Rajas. Engage in lots of activities. Excell in all things you are doing. Just dont exist but live your life. By this not only you earn a good name but also you would have conquered your Tamas. When Tamas is reasonably won over you will really be able to spend more time mentally, if Tamas is dominant then you need to engage your body and mind both in activities. Having over come Tamas now you will be really capable to remain without much physical activity. Here since Rajas is dominant you will have to overcome Rajas by Satva by spiritual activities. You will be in a real position to defeat your vices. Channelise your Rajas into Spiritual activities. Contribute your effort in such activities.

Like this apply your self well. What force can stop you?

Your question is not a loner. I am sure it is a question to allmost all spiritual aspirants only nobody speaks about them!

It actually some amount of courage and wisdom to speak about it with an intention to over come it. So you already have the necessary courage and wiadom to go all the way.

Trust in yourself and then the God will trust you!

Best,
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 11:50:21 PM by Nagaraj »
॥ शांतमात्मनि तिष्ट ॥
Remain quietly in the Self.
~ Vasishta

Beloved Abstract

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2052 on: August 17, 2016, 02:44:08 AM »
" if you come to a fork in the road, take it " ......... Yogi Berra
simply stop telling the story of the self and see who you are without it

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2053 on: August 17, 2016, 05:57:41 AM »
Nagaraj/ksksat/Friends,
Wonderful posts from our friend Nagaraj here...all these are self recommending and are assuredly of immense practical value.

I warmly recommend this book by a little known team of writers 'HANUMAN Our ideal for building a great personality'....This is based on the teachings of Swami Vivekananda ....and very lucidly written....with clear and practical guidelines.
This is available as a pdf download:
http://estudantedavedanta.net/HANUMAN.pdf
My wife was so impressed by this book and she wished to gift it to school children....and it was not available at R K Mutt,chennai...we mailed to the Sri Ramakrishna Seva Samithi Vijayalakshmipuram, Bapatla - 522 101 AP INDIA e-mail : rksamithibapatla@gmail.com and purchased this book(for about Rs20/- or so each copy) and we received it promptly.

For those who are used to the 'advaitic' jargon....the word 'personality' is an untouchable...ha,ha....But without personality development it is futile to have 'a go' at the lofty advaitic teaching which calls for a totally uncompromising self giving....How do we expect to surrender something which we do not possess in the first place....to surrender the mind we need to possess it in full measure...should have plumbed its depths....Otherwise it is as futile as trying to gift away somebody else property!...What does it mean when  I say that I am gifting away Bill Gates property?....It simply means that I do not have anything to offer....quite the same with the mind....filling it with borrowed ideas and 'surrendering' it just means nothing....it is a farce and nothing good will come out of it....We shall be only cheating ourselves....so,first thing is to wholly possess our mind....which means to bring all the strands of thoughts in unison and get to the root of thoughts ,the 'I' thought....and it is only then that true surrender of the 'I' and 'mine' is possible.

Towards this,the thoughts have to be ordered and disciplined(no regimentation implied here)....and this means development of 'personality'...This is what this book intends to convey and does it admirably.

Namaskar.

atmavichar100

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #2054 on: August 17, 2016, 09:21:38 AM »
Got this today in my email .The author of the quote is not important . But we have to reflect the truth of the same in our own lives .

Apparent Choice

Yesterday's reflection stated that there is no "you" in control or making choices. The experience of having no choice can be absolutely liberating. The experience is showing you that life is just happening spontaneously.

Yet, paradoxically, apparent choice arises. Out of nowhere comes a thought that you have a choice between two options: between continuing to replay a past resentment or allowing awareness to see that resentment as nothing more than presently arising thought and emotion.

Notice that even this apparent choice arises spontaneously and involuntarily. Then experience and enjoy the choice. Making choices apparently happens within the dream of the thought-based, time-bound self. Do not try to suppress that self. Just see that it is a dream of time, a dream that you are a person who has control and who can choose to do something now to bring about some future outcome.

Enjoy apparent choice but see it for what is truly is ... a dream of thought. The dream of self, and therefore the dream of apparent choice, arises spontaneously and involuntarily from the choiceless, timeless, formless presence that you really are.
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha