Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 314746 times)

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #180 on: August 21, 2012, 07:44:22 AM »
Jewell,
Thanks very much.Jewell,you may perhaps like the story of Nanda,the pariah Saint that I have posted in the Stories thread started by silentgreen.It figures under the 'Translations and Commentaries By Forum Members' Category.
I understand that you are from Serbia.Truly wonderful to see how spiritual yearning cuts across Regions,languages,cultures.You are truly blessed.
Wish you the Very Best.
Namaskar.

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #181 on: August 21, 2012, 10:45:45 AM »
Anil,
As you Rightly observed ,how sri Bhagavan's life itself happens to be his Teaching as well and far surpasses any words that he may have used,although such a form of teaching through words also has a place.
Sri Bhagavan's wonderful Life is his teaching-How he could live like a Lotus leaf on water,in the world and yet untouched by it!How he could be sensitive to all life forms,responded to them in perfect Harmony and understanding and yet be above all limitations!Truly exemplary in any way you look at it,as a Human being,as a Guru,as God or Self.
It is quite the same with Sri Ramakrishna.His wonderful life itself is his Teaching and I do not have the competence or capacity to write about it.Yet I take pleasure in sharing what 'M' (Master Mahasaya)who is a direct disciple and a Great devotee has to say on the Master:

M. (to the bhaktas) — Mahamaya makes one forget all. Only the other day the avatara came and said all this. He himself practised it all. He has made us see it all almost forcibly, yet where does the awakening come?
"O, what a state Thakur had: uttering ‘Ma, Ma,’ all the twenty-four hours of the day! He would not sleep at night practically. Maybe he keeps quiet for five to ten minutes. Again he wakes up with ‘Ma, Ma,’ again - inhaling ‘Ma’ and exhaling ‘Ma’! He was just like a child who can not live without his mother, who wants his mother."

This is the essence of Sri Ramakrishna's Teaching-God is one's own and is accessible to one and all.He says:
"God is your own Mother. Enforce your demand. If you are part of a thing, you feel its
attraction. Because of the element of the Divine Mother in me I feel attracted to Her
".

Again he says:
'Why do I not see God?' I said, 'You do not see God because you
busy yourself with such things as name and fame and scholarship.' The mother does not
come to the child as long as it sucks its toy-a red toy. But when, after a few minutes, it
throws the toy away and cries, then the mother takes down the rice-pot from the hearth and
comes running to the child."

He further says:

MASTER (to Girish): "One can realize God through intense renunciation. But the soul
must be restless for Him, as restless as one feels for a breath of air when one's head is
pressed under water.
"A man can see God if he unites in himself the force of these three attractions: the attraction
of worldly possessions for the worldly man, the husband's attraction for the chaste wife,
and the child's attraction for its mother. If you can unite these three forms of love and give
it all to God, then you can see Him at once.
Cry to your Mother Syama with a real cry, O mind!
And how can She hold Herself from you?
"If a devotee prays to God with real longing, God cannot help revealing Himself to him.
"The other day I told you the meaning of bhakti. It is to adore God with body, mind, and
words. 'With body' means to serve and worship God with one's hands, go to holy places
with one's .feet, hear the chanting of the name and glories of God with one's ears, and
behold the divine image with one's eyes. 'With mind' means to contemplate and meditate on
God constantly and to remember and think of His lila. 'With words' means to sing hymns to
Him and chant His name and glories.
"Devotion as described by Narada is suited to the Kaliyuga. It means to chant constantly
the name and glories of God. Let those who have no leisure worship God at least morning
and evening by whole-heartedly chanting His name and clapping their hands
.
"The 'ego of a devotee' begets no pride; it does not create ignorance. On the contrary it
helps one realize God. This ego is no more like the ordinary ego than hinche is like
ordinary greens. One generally becomes indisposed by eating greens; but hinche removes
excessive bile; it does one good. Sugar candy is not like ordinary sweets. Sweets are
generally harmful, but sugar candy removes acidity.
"Nishtha leads to bhakti; bhakti, when mature, becomes bhava; bhava, when concentrated,
becomes mahabhava; and last of all is prema. Prema is like a cord: by prema God is bound
to the devotee; He can no longer run away
.

Essentialy,he teaches unsophisticated form of Love.What is unsophisticated Love?A Love that is spontaneous and does not need any Polemic Support such as whether the "love' is limted,whether it is 'Object -subject' oriented,whether it is wholesome,whether it is mature,etc,etc.All such calculations by the mind fall short and often act as stumbling blocks.
This simple ,yet powerful unsophisticated Love that even a calf may have for its mother cow,if intensified and held onto will lead to all the Rest.This is the Beauty of Sri Ramakrishna's unsophisticated approach that the simplest and lowliest of us can follow.In fact there is no need to follow,for all of us have it in us and it only needs encouragement and tending to sprout and flower.

The Master says:
"Once I went to a certain place with Mathur Babu. Many pundits came forward to argue
with me. And you all know that I am a fool. (All laugh.) The pundits saw that strange mood
of mine. When the conversation was over, they said to me: 'Sir, after hearing your words,
all that we have studied before, our knowledge and scholarship, has proved to be mere
spittle. Now we realize that a man does not lack wisdom if he has the grace of God. The
fool becomes wise and the mute eloquent.' Therefore I say that a man does not become a
scholar by the mere study of books
.

Divine Knowledge is inexhaustible

"Yes, how true it is! How can a man who has the grace of God lack knowledge? Look at
me. I am a fool. I do not know anything. Then who is it that utters these words? The
reservoir of the Knowledge of God is inexhaustible.
There are grain-dealers at Kamarpukur.
When selling paddy, one man weighs the grain on the scales and another man pushes it to
him from a heap. It is the duty of the second man to keep a constant supply of grain on the
scales by pushing it from the big heap. It is the same with my words. No sooner are they
about to run short than the Divine Mother sends a new supply from Her Inexhaustible
storehouse of Knowledge."

As we read the Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna,we find how the Master hooks all with his Love,talking to them and joking with them,indulging in small talk as it were and then all of a sudden sweeping them to the Divine realm of Beauty,Love and Knowledge.He is utterly human and accessible,yet ever the Child of The Divine Mother.
Here is an example:
A boat was moving in the Ganges, far away from the bank. The boatman began to sing. The
sound of his voice floating over the river reached the Master's ears, and he went into a
spiritual mood. The hair on his body stood on end. He said to M., "Just feel my body." M.
was greatly amazed. He thought: "The Upanishads describe Brahman as permeating the
universe and the ether. Has that Brahman, as sound, touched the Master's body?"

Reading the Gospel is to be in sat-sangh of the Highest kind as M has so vivdly captured the scenes that no Video camera can!Thanks very much for your earnest query that has provided me an opportunity to babble these few words.
Namaskar.


« Last Edit: August 21, 2012, 10:51:10 AM by Ravi.N »

Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #182 on: August 21, 2012, 12:21:04 PM »
Hari,
I appreciate your sentiments.Number of followers are not important in as much as what they Realize.Horizontal spread is quite easy and can be accomplished just like how materialism can take hold and sway over people.The Deepest spiritual Truths cannot be 'Spread' but each one has to strive to understand and Realize it.This is why ,it is the Student who goes in search of a Guru and not the other way round.The Guru is simply content to be steeped in Truth,like Sri Bhagavan did.

This is what Swami Vivekananda says in that wonderful talk 'My Master':" In our country a teacher is a most highly venerated person, he is regarded as God Himself. We have not even the same respect for our father and mother. Father and mother give us our body, but the teacher shows us the way to salvation. We are his children, we are born in the spiritual line of the teacher. All Hindus come to pay respect to an extraordinary teacher, they crowd around him. And here was such a teacher, but the teacher had no thought whether he was to be respected or not, he had not the least idea that he was a great teacher, he thought that it was Mother who was doing everything and not he. He always said, "If any good comes from my lips, it is the Mother who speaks; what have I to do with it?" That was his one idea about his work, and to the day of his death he never gave it up. This man sought no one. His principle was, first form character, first earn spirituality and results will come of themselves. His favorite illustration was, "When the lotus opens, the bees come of their own accord to seek the honey; so let the lotus of your character be full-blown, and the results will follow." This is a great lesson to learn.

    My Master taught me this lesson hundreds of times, yet I often forget it. Few understand the power of thought. If a man goes into a cave, shuts himself in, and thinks one really great thought and dies, that thought will penetrate the walls of that cave, vibrate through space, and at last permeate the whole human race. Such is the power of thought; be in no hurry therefore to give your thoughts to others. First have something to give. He alone teaches who has something to give, for teaching is not talking, teaching is not imparting doctrines, it is communicating. Spirituality can be communicated just as really as I can give you a flower. This is true in the most literal sense. This idea is very old in India and finds illustration in the West in the theory, in the belief, of apostolic succession. Therefore first make character--that is the highest duty you can perform. Know Truth for yourself, and there will be many to whom you can teach it afterwards; they will all come. This was the attitude of my Master. He criticized no one. For years I lived with that man, but never did I hear those lips utter one word of condemnation for any sect. He had the same sympathy for all sects; he had found the harmony between them. A man may be intellectual, or devotional, or mystic, or active; the various religions represent one or the other of these types. Yet it is possible to combine all the four in one man, and this is what future humanity is going to do. That was his idea. He condemned no one, but saw the good in all.
 This is the message of Shri Ramakrishna to the modern world: "Do not care for doctrines, do not care for dogmas, or sects, or churches, or temples; they count for little compared with the essence of existence in each man, which is spirituality; and the more this is developed in a man, the more powerful is he for good. Earn that first, acquire that, and criticise no one, for all doctrines and creeds have some good in them. Show by your lives that religion does not mean words, or names, or sects, but that it means spiritual realization. Only those can understand who have felt. Only those who have attained to spirituality can communicate it to others, can be great teachers of mankind. They alone are the powers of light."

    The more such men are produced in a country, the more that country will be raised; and that country where such men absolutely do not exist is simply doomed, nothing can save it. Therefore my Master's message to mankind is: "Be spiritual and realize truth for yourself." He would have you give up for the sake of your fellow-beings. He would have you cease talking about love for your brother, and set to work to prove your words. The time has come for renunciation, for realization; and then you will see the harmony in all the religions of the world. You will know that there is no need of any quarrel. And then only will you be ready to help humanity. To proclaim and make clear the fundamental unity underlying all religions was the mission of my Master. Other teachers have taught special religions which bear their names, but this great teacher of the nineteenth century made no claim for himself. He left every religion undisturbed because he had realized that in reality they are all part and parcel of the one eternal religion."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Namaskar.

Hari

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #183 on: August 21, 2012, 12:29:21 PM »
Quote
I appreciate your sentiments.Number of followers are not important in as much as what they Realize.Horizontal spread is quite easy and can be accomplished just like how materialism can take hold and sway over people.The Deepest spiritual Truths cannot be 'Spread' but each one has to strive to understand and Realize it.This is why ,it is the Student who goes in search of a Guru and not the other way round.The Guru is simply content to be steeped in Truth,like Sri Bhagavan did.

Number of followers is important. If you don't understand fully the message, sometimes it is enough that the teaching engrave impression in your soul! Nothing spiritual goes in vain. Not all people understand the message right away. So I don't mean that Truth is spread but the message is. I don't know if you are aware but Christian mystics for example have their 'gurus' (teachers). They are not like most Christians who just start reading the Bible and they think they know everything. Christian masters teach methods, what Silence is, Contemplation, Prayer, explain the secret message of the Bible. The living word of these teachers is just as vivid and important and powerful as the teaching of Lord Jesus Christ Himself. So student-Guru relationship is not typical for Indians only. Sufis also have a teacher. These mystical traditions are meaningless without an advanced teacher who to explain it to you.
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Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #184 on: August 21, 2012, 12:53:30 PM »
Hari,
Yes,Guru-sishya tradition prevails in other Traditions as well;yet,I am not sure whether it gets the direct sanction of the Scriptures themselves,be it the Bible or The Koran.If I understand right,the Koran prohibits worship of any God other than God,far less worship Guru as God.
The Vedas say,matru Devo Bhava(Worship mother as God),Pitru Devo Bhava(worship Father as God) and Acharya Devo Bhava(Worship guru as God).This sort of a scriptural reinforcement has entered the very psyche of the people at large .In fact so popular is the word 'Guru' that it is used even in management and other mundane circles,i.e that so-and-so is  a 'Guru' of that subject.
Truth has its own power to reach out ,but more than Reaching out,it is the Power of Sustenance and Longevity.The Spiritual Verities for ever remain hidden from the Masses and perhaps they will ever remain so.It is the few who go after it and still fewer who attain it.This has been history and perhaps this is the way it will be.

Hence the Central message in Sanatana Dharma is 'Man,realize Truth for yourself'.In doing so,we will be doing what needs to be done.If that touches others,well and good.If not ,Equally Good!For in Truth We are The world.Where then is the need to spread it!
Namaskar.

Hari

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #185 on: August 21, 2012, 01:01:30 PM »
If you want a candle to burn there must be someone or something to ignite it.
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Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #186 on: August 21, 2012, 01:13:00 PM »
Hari,
"If you want a candle to burn there must be someone or something to ignite it"
Yes Hari.If the Candle is ready,not just that someone but all things necessary will be provided by Providence,including the Oxygen to burn.
Namaskar.

Hari

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #187 on: August 21, 2012, 01:29:52 PM »
The candle is always ready but the Providence must bring the one who will ingnite the candle to it. Nothing is in our hands really. Everything is by Grace. Christian mystics say that one the most important things is to realize the Grace everywhere.
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Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #188 on: August 21, 2012, 02:33:22 PM »
Hari,
When do we say that the candle is Ready?When it is trimmed and dry and fit to be lit.It is for this sadhana is required.
This is what Thayumanavar says(I know you cannot follow Tamil but this is meant for other Readers as well who understand Tamil):

மூர்த்திதலந் தீர்த்தம் முறையாய்த் தொடங்கினர்க்கோர்
வார்த்தைசொலச் சற்குருவும் வாய்க்கும் பராபரமே.

To them who commenceth in manner decreed -
Worship of image, visit to temple
And bathing in sacred waters -
The Holy Guru will of himself come
To impart the Supreme Word of instruction
,
Oh Para Param!

When the Demand is Genuine,Supply is assured.

Namaskar.

Hari

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #189 on: August 21, 2012, 02:39:35 PM »
The question is why so many sincere Christians, Muslims and Hindus don't go to this point.
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Ravi.N

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #190 on: August 21, 2012, 02:53:16 PM »
Hari,
Did Not Lord Jesus say:"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened ."

This is what papa Ramdas so beautifully says:If You want Krishna,you must love him above all things and not among other things!

Sri Ramakrishna asks a simple question:

"Pray to God in secret and with yearning, that you may have that passionate attachment and
devotion to Him. Shed tears for Him
. A man sheds a jugful of tears because his wife is sick
or because he is losing money or because he is worrying about getting a job. But tell me,
who ever weeps for God
?'

The simple answer is that rare is the one who is desperate for God.

Sri Ramakrishna says:
"Longing is like the rosy dawn. After the dawn out comes the sun.
Longing is followed by the vision of God.

"God reveals Himself to a devotee who feels drawn to Him by the combined force of these
three attractions: the attraction of worldly possessions for the worldly man, the child's
attraction for its mother, and the husband's attraction for the chaste wife. If one feels drawn
to Him by the combined force of these three attractions, then through it one can attain Him.
"The point is, to love God even as the mother loves her child, the chaste wife her husband,
and the worldly man his wealth. Add together these three forces of love, these three powers
of attraction, and give it all to God. Then you will certainly see Him."

All Great ones have said this and we also can verify it.
Namaskar.

Subramanian.R

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #191 on: August 21, 2012, 02:59:40 PM »
Dear all,

Yes. Guru does not search for the disciples.  The disciple should seek the Guru and if so destined, the disciple would get an \
appropriate Guru. The Guru need not even speak to the disciple. His silence will itself be the upadesa. Sri Dakshinamurti
did upadesa in silence. After reading Talks and other books, we tend to think that Sri Bhagavan was keeping on talking.
No. No. He remained silent most of the time. Very rarely if someone asked a question and if that question deserved a reply,
He would say a few words. Many times, He would not even answer.

For His 54 years in Tiruvannamalai, what He spoke are all in three books. Mainly Talks. Then Day by Day and Letters.
The latter two are having repetitions of the same in many cases.  Totally what He spoke as 'teachings' would just be
500 to 700 pages.

If we keep track of a record of what we speak every day, every month, every year, throughout our life time and the books
so written from such records would fill this world!

Arunachala Siva.       

Hari

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #192 on: August 21, 2012, 04:52:11 PM »
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eranilkumarsinha

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #193 on: August 21, 2012, 05:49:29 PM »
"O, what a state Thakur had: uttering ‘Ma, Ma,’ all the twenty-four hours of the day! He would not sleep at night practically. Maybe he keeps quiet for five to ten minutes. Again he wakes up with ‘Ma, Ma,’ again - inhaling ‘Ma’ and exhaling ‘Ma’! He was just like a child who can not live without his mother, who wants his mother."

"God is your own Mother. Enforce your demand. If you are part of a thing, you feel its
attraction. Because of the element of the Divine Mother in me I feel attracted to Her".
“ The mother does not
come to the child as long as it sucks its toy-a red toy. But when, after a few minutes, it
throws the toy away and cries, then the mother takes down the rice-pot from the hearth and
comes running to the child."

"A man can see God if he unites in himself the force of these three attractions: the attraction
of worldly possessions for the worldly man, the husband's attraction for the chaste wife,
and the child's attraction for its mother. If you can unite these three forms of love and give
it all to God, then you can see Him at once.
Cry to your Mother Syama with a real cry, O mind!
And how can She hold Herself from you?
"If a devotee prays to God with real longing, God cannot help revealing Himself to him.
" Let those who have no leisure worship God at least morning
and evening by whole-heartedly chanting His name and clapping their hands.”
 
"Nishtha leads to bhakti; bhakti, when mature, becomes bhava; bhava, when concentrated,
becomes mahabhava; and last of all is prema. Prema is like a cord: by prema God is bound
to the devotee; He can no longer run away.”

“ The
fool becomes wise and the mute eloquent.' Therefore I say that a man does not become a
scholar by the mere study of books.”

“Divine Knowledge is inexhaustible”

“Reading the Gospel is to be in sat-sangh of the Highest kind as M has so vivdly captured the scenes that no Video camera can!Thanks very much for your earnest query that has provided me an opportunity to babble these few words.”


Dear Sri Ravi,

After I finished reading your post, I remained wonder-struck for some time— speechless and thoughtless, not knowing what and how to think. He is the very embodiment of Supreme Devotion and therefore it is certain that one will be overwhelmed by the fragrance of its Nectar-like Love and Beauty as soon as one partakes even a little of that Love-bliss.

Dear Sri Ravi, I bought ‘The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna’ in 2006, but I never read it, because I never felt the urge from within to do so. I even wondered why did I buy it in the first place. Now I know. Perhaps I was not ready then. (As you once quoted Sri silentgreen’s insight that one adept in bathing in one pond can bathe in any pond)  And now I feel that Sri Bhagwan Himself is inspiring me through you to learn from Bhagwan Sri Param Hamsa what it is to savour the PURE PREMA RASA, THE UNSOPHISTICATED LOVE, which in truth is the culmination of Bhakti, Bhava and Mahabhava.

Thanks very much, sir.

Pranam,
  Anil 

Jewell

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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #194 on: August 21, 2012, 08:20:40 PM »
Dear Ravi.N, I saw that beautiful story about Nanda,and wrote you there,under 'Translations and commentaries by forum members',in the Stories. Thank you very much for sharing it!