Author Topic: Rough Notebook-Open Forum  (Read 503599 times)


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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1425 on: May 17, 2015, 05:01:21 PM »

?In the night of Brahman, Nature is inert, and cannot dance
till Shiva wills it: He rises from His rapture, and dancing sends
through inert matter pulsing waves of awakening sound, and
lo! Matter also dances, appearing as a glory round about Him.
Dancing, He sustains its manifold phenomena. In the fullness
of time, still dancing, He destroys all forms and names by fire
and gives new rest. This is poetry, but none the less science.?

 ? The Dance of Siva by Ananda Coomaraswamy -

Arunachala Siva.


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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1426 on: May 17, 2015, 05:15:31 PM »

A question was asked as to the nature of happiness.

M.: If a man thinks that his happiness is due to external causes and his possessions, it is
reasonable to conclude that his happiness must increase with the increase of possessions and  diminish in proportion to their diminution. Therefore if he is devoid of possessions, his happiness should be nil. What is the real experience of man? Does it conform to this view?

In deep sleep the man is devoid of possessions, including his own body. Instead of being
unhappy he is quite happy. Everyone desires to sleep soundly. The conclusion is that
happiness is inherent in man and is not due to external causes. One must realise his Self in order to open the store of unalloyed happiness.
Arunachala Siva.


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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1427 on: May 18, 2015, 07:12:49 AM »
Later in the afternoon several Marwari devotees entered the Master's room, where Rakhal and M. also were seated.
A MARWARI DEVOTEE: "Sir, what is the way?"
Two ways of God-realization
MASTER: "There are two ways. One is the path of discrimination, the other is that of love.Discrimination means to know the distinction between the Real and the unreal. God alone is the real and permanent Substance; all else is illusory and impermanent. The magician alone is real; his magic is illusory. This is discrimination.
"Discrimination and renunciation. Discrimination means to know the distinction between the Real and the unreal. Renunciation means to have dispassion for the things of the world. One cannot acquire them all of a sudden. They must be practised every day. One should renounce 'woman and gold' mentally at first. Then, by the will of God, one can renounce it both mentally and outwardly. It is impossible to ask the people of Calcutta to renounce all for the sake of God. One has to tell them to renounce mentally.
Constant practice urged
"Through the discipline of constant practice one is able to give up attachment to 'woman and gold'. That is what the Gita says. By practice one acquires uncommon power of mind.Then one doesn't find it difficult to subdue the sense-organs and to bring anger, lust, and the like under control. Such a man behaves like a tortoise, which, once it has tucked in its limbs, never puts them out. You cannot make the tortoise put its limbs out again, though you chop it to pieces with an axe."
MARWARI DEVOTEE: "Revered sir, you just mentioned two paths. What is the other path?"
MASTER: "The path of bhakti, or zealous love of God. Weep for God in solitude, with a restless soul, and ask Him to reveal Himself to you. Cry to your Mother Syama with a real cry, O mind! And how can She hold Herself from you? "
MARWARI DEVOTEE: "Sir, what is the meaning of the worship of the Personal God? And what is the meaning of God without form or attribute?"
MASTER: "As you recall your father by his photograph, so likewise the worship of the image reveals in a flash the nature of Reality.
"Do you know what God with form is like? Like bubbles rising on an expanse of water, various divine forms are seen to rise out of the Great akasa of Consciousness. The Incarnation of God is one of these forms. The Primal Energy sports, as it were, through the activities of a Divine Incarnation.
"What is there in mere scholarship? God can be attained by crying to Him with a longing heart. There is no need to know many things.
"He who is an acharya has to know different things. One needs a sword and shield to kill others; but to kill oneself, a needle or a nail-knife suffices.
"One ultimately discovers God by trying to know who this 'I' is. Is this 'I' the flesh, the bones, the blood, or the marrow? Is it the mind or the buddhi? Analysing thus, you realize at last that you are none of these. This is called the process of 'Neti, neti', 'Not this, not this'.One can neither comprehend nor touch the Atman. It is without qualities or attributes.
"But, according to the path of devotion, God has attributes. To a devotee Krishna is Spirit,His Abode is Spirit, and everything about Him is Spirit."
The Marwari devotees saluted the Master and took their leave.

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna


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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1428 on: May 18, 2015, 05:44:04 PM »

God will bear whatever burdens we put on Him. All things
are being carried on by the omnipotent power of a Supreme
God. Instead of submitting ourselves to It, why should we
always be planning, 'We should do this or that'. Knowing that
the train carries all the load, why should we, travelling therein,
suffer by carrying our small bundle on our heads, instead of
leaving it on the train and being happy.

The story of Ashtavakra teaches that in order to experience
Brahma Jnana all that is necessary is to surrender yourself
completely to the Guru, to give up your notion of 'I' and
'mine'. If these are surrendered, what remains is the Reality.
There are two ways of achieving surrender. One is looking
into the source of the 'I' and merging into that source. The other
is feeling, 'I am helpless myself, God alone is all powerful,
and except by throwing myself completely on Him, there is no
other means of safety for me' and thus gradually developing
the conviction that God alone exists and the ego does not count.
Both methods lead to the same goal. Complete surrender is
another name for jnana or liberation.

Bhakti is not different from mukti. Bhakti is being as the
Self. One is always That. He realizes It by the means he adopts.
What is bhakti? To think of God. That means only one thought
prevails to the exclusion of all other thoughts. That thought
is of God, which is the Self, or it is the self surrendered unto
God. When He has taken you up, nothing else will assail you.


Arunachala Siva.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2015, 05:48:55 PM by Subramanian.R »


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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1429 on: May 20, 2015, 01:49:18 PM »

1. What is maya? The answer is: It is anirvachaniya or

2. To whom does it come? The answer is: To the mind
or ego who feels that he is a separate entity, who thinks ?I do
this? or ?This is mine?.

3. Where does it come from and how did it originate? The
answer: Nobody can say.

4. How did it arise? The answer is: Through non-vichara,
through failure to inquire ?Who am I??

5. If the Self and maya both exist, does this not invalidate
the theory of Advaita? The answer is: It need not, since maya
is dependent on the Self as the picture is on the screen. The
picture is not real in the sense that the screen is real.

6. If the Self and maya are one, could it not be argued that
the Self is of the nature of maya and that it is also illusory?
The answer is: No, the Self can be capable of producing
illusion without being illusory. A conjuror may create for
our entertainment the illusion of people, animals and things,
and we see all of them as clearly as we see him, but after the
performance he alone remains and all the visions he created
have disappeared. He is not the part of the vision, but solid and real.


Arunachala Siva.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2015, 01:51:09 PM by Subramanian.R »


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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1430 on: May 20, 2015, 01:56:56 PM »

It is not at all correct to say that advaitins of the Sankara
school deny the existence of the world, or that they call it
unreal. On the other hand, it is more real to them than to
others. Their world will always exist whereas the world of the
other schools will have origin, growth and decay, and as such
cannot be real. They only say that the world as ?world? is not
real, but that the world as Brahman is real. All is Brahman,
nothing exists but Brahman, and the world as Brahman is real.
The Self is the one Reality that always exists, and it is by
the light of the Self that all other things are seen. 


Arunachala Siva.


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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1431 on: May 20, 2015, 02:56:01 PM »

An American lady asked Bhagavan what his experiences of samadhi were. When suggested that she should relate her experiences and ask if they were right,
she replied that Sri Bhagavan?s experiences ought to be correct and should be known, whereas her own were unimportant. She thus wanted to know if Sri Bhagavan felt His body hot or cold in samadhi, if He spent the first three and a half years of His stay at Tiruvannamalai in prayers and so on.

Maharshi:  Samadhi transcends mind and speech and cannot be described.
For example, the state of deep slumber cannot be described; samadhi state
can still less be explained.

D.: But I know that I am unconscious in deep sleep.

Maharshi: Consciousness and unconsciousness are only modes of the mind.
Samadhi transcends the mind.

D.: Still you can say what it is like.

Maharshi:  You will know only when you are in samadhi.


Arunachala Siva.


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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1432 on: May 21, 2015, 10:36:18 PM »

« Last Edit: May 21, 2015, 10:39:18 PM by atmavichar100 »
However many holy words you read, however many you speak, what good will they do you if you do not act on upon them? - Buddha


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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1433 on: May 22, 2015, 07:50:37 PM »
Sri Graham's old photo
Om Namo Bagavathe Sri Ramanaya


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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1434 on: May 23, 2015, 07:14:09 AM »
Oneness of God
"The Truth established in the Vedas, the Puranas, and the Tantras is but one Satchidananda. In the Vedas It is called Brahman, in the Puranas It is called Krishna, Rama, and so on, and in the Tantras It is called Siva. The one Satchidananda is called Brahman, Krishna, and Siva."
The devotees were silent.
A VAISHNAVA DEVOTEE: "Sir, why should one think of God at all"
MASTER: "If a man really has that knowledge, then he is indeed liberated though living in a body.
Shallow faith of the worldly-minded
"Not all, by any means, believe in God. They simply talk. The worldly-minded have heard from someone that God exists and that everything happens by His will; but it is not their inner belief.
"Do you know what a worldly man's idea of God is like? It is like the children's swearing by God when they quarrel. They have heard the word while listening to their elderly aunts quarreling.
"Is it possible for all to comprehend God? God has created the good and the bad, the devoted and the impious, the faithful and the sceptical. The wonders that we see all exist in His creation. In one place there is more manifestation of His Power, in another less. The sun's light is better reflected by water than by earth, and still better by a mirror. Again, there are different levels among the devotees of God: superior, mediocre, and inferior. All this has been described in the Gita."
VAISHNAVA: "True, sir."
Various classes of devotees
MASTER: "The inferior devotee says, 'God exists, but He is very far off, up there in heaven.' The mediocre devotee says, 'God exists in all beings as life and consciousness.'
The superior devotee says: 'It is God Himself who has become everything; whatever I see is only a form of God. It is He alone who has become maya, the universe, and all living beings. Nothing exists but God.' "
VAISHNAVA: "Does anyone ever attain that state of mind?"
Signs of God-vision
MASTER: "One cannot attain it unless one has seen God. But there are signs that a man has had the vision of God. A man who has seen God sometimes behaves like a madman: he laughs, weeps, dances, and sings. Sometimes he behaves like a child, a child five years oldguileless, generous, without vanity, unattached to anything, not under the control of any of the gunas, always blissful. Sometimes he behaves like a ghoul: he doesn't differentiate between things pure and things impure; he sees no difference between things clean and things unclean. And sometimes he is like an inert thing, staring vacantly: he cannot do any work; he cannot strive for anything."
Was the Master making a veiled reference to his own states of mind?
Knowledge and ignorance
MASTER (to the Vaishnava devotee): "The feeling of 'Thee and Thine' is the outcome of Knowledge; 'I and mine' comes from ignorance. Knowledge makes one feel: 'O God, Thou art the Doer and I am Thy instrument. O God, to Thee belongs all-body, mind, house, family, living beings, and the universe. All these are Thine. Nothing belongs to me.'
"An ignorant person says, 'Oh, God is there-very far off.' The man of Knowledge knows that God is right here, very near, in the heart; that He has assumed all forms and dwells in all hearts as their Inner Controller."

The Gospel of Sri Ramakrishna


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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1435 on: May 23, 2015, 07:28:08 AM »
Nami Nandi Adigal (one of the 63 Saiva Saints) Liberation Day - 23.05.2015.
Vaikasi Pushyam:

Today is the Guru Puja Day for Nami Nandi Adigal.

Nami Nandi Adigal was a pious Brahmin and a Siva worshipper, well
versed in Vedas and agamas. Once he went to Tiruvarur and prayed
to Siva, who is called Vanmika Nathar. In the temple, he suddenly wanted
to burn some oil lamps.  He came out to the bazaar but found he had
money only for buying earthern lamps and no money for oil.  He went to some Jain merchants on the street and asked for oil.  They made fun of him and said:
 'Your Siva has got fire on his hand, why he needs oil
lamps?' He returned to the temple in a sad state. 

Suddenly he heard a voice saying that he need not worry and he can take water
from the well inside the temple and burn the lamps.  He did and to the amazement
of everyone, the lamps with water burned steadily for hours.  He continued this practice for a long time.  Soon this miracle came to the knowledge of the king and he came and gave a big purse for continuing burning of lamps with oil, everyday!

One day, Nami Nandi Adigal went for the procession of the temple
car on the streets and all people of different castes were pulling the
rope for the car.  He also joined, but he felt that he has been polluted
by lower caste people, went home after that and slept.  Next day,
he went to the temple where people of all castes were worshipping
and on each one's throat there was a blue color, reminding him
that everyone is Siva in Tiruvarur!  The saint begged Siva's pardon
and worshipped these people as if they are Siva themselves!  After
sometime, when he grew old, Siva appeared before him and took him
to His Abode saying that his services in Siva temple were over and it
was time for him to come to Hisc Abode.

Arunachala Siva.


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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1436 on: May 23, 2015, 08:00:55 AM »
Sekkizhar Swamigal Liberation Day - 23.05.2015.

Today is the Guru Puja Day: Vaikasi PUSHYAM: 

Sekkizhar (சேக்கிழார்) was a poet and scholar of Tamil Shaiva Siddhanta, a Saiva
saint contemporary with the reign of Kulothunga Chozha II. He compiled and wrote
the Periya Puranam (Great Puranam), 4253 verses long, recounting the life stories
of the sixty-three Saiva Nayanmars, the poets of Shiva who composed the liturgical
poems of the Tirumurai.  Sekkizhar's work itself became part of the Saiva Canons.
It comes as Saiva Canon 12.

Sekkizhar was born in Kundrathur village (about 40 kms. from Chennai) in Thondai
Nadu, the present Cingleput and Kanchipuram districts. He moved to Chidambaram in order to compose Periyapuranam. Among all the hagiographic Puranas in Tamizh the Periyapuranam (or Tiruttondar Puranam) stands first.

Kulothunga Chozha II, then a young king, was a devotee of Lord Siva Nataraja at Chidambaram and continued the reconstruction of the center of Tamizh Saivism that was begun by his ancestors. However, he was also enchanted by the Jaina epic Jeevaka
Chintamani an epic of erotic flavor in which the hero Jivaka marries seven damsels and gains a kingdom. In the end he realizes the transiency of possessions, renounces his kingship and finally attains Nirvana.

When it is brought to his attention that the king has almost crossed over to Jainism, Sekkizhar is deeply disturbed and he exhorts the king to abandon the pursuit of impious literature and turn instead to the life of the Saiva saints celebrated by Sundaramurthy
Swamigal (tiruth thondar thokai) and Nambiyandar Nambi (Tirithondar Tiru Andati) and the king thereupon invited Sekkizhar to expound the lives of the Saiva saints in a great poem. As a saiva saint, Sekkizhar knew about the lives of the saints and after he collected the data he wrote the poem in the Thousand Pillared Hall of the Chidambaram temple. Sekkizhar would himself sing the Periyapuranam and arouse the latent Chozha Saiva
zeal and successfully bring the king back in line.

This work is considered the most important initiative of Kulothunga Chozha II's reign. Although it is only a literary embellishment of earlier hagiographies of the Saiva saints it came to be seen as the epitome of Chozha literary style. The Periyapuranam is considered a fifth Veda in the Tamil and it immediately took its place as the twelfth and the last book in the Saiva Canon.

Arunachala Siva.


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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1437 on: May 23, 2015, 03:37:00 PM »

An engineer asked: ?The animals seem to conform to their own natural laws
in spite of their environment and changes. Whereas man flouts social law and
is not bound by any definite system. He seems to be degenerating whereas the
animals are steady. Is it not so??

M.: (After a long time). The Upanishads and scriptures say that human beings are only
animals unless they are realized beings. Possibly they are worse also.


Arunachala Siva.


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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1438 on: May 23, 2015, 04:37:45 PM »
A very good friend of mine has this site where one can register to get daily mails from 'The Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi' ,'Letters from Sri Ramanasramam' and 'Recollections of Sri Ramanasramam':
This friend in his mail had written as to how he got to initiate this:
I had recently created a website that sends one mail everyday with a one 'Talk' or 'Letter' or 'Recollection' (taken from Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi, Letters from and Recollections of Sri Ramanasramam).
This was one of my friend's ideas/wish and I thought this is the only way I would be able to 'finish' reading Talks and Letters, if that is even possible.
So, I went ahead and created it.
If you would like to receive the daily mail, I could subscribe your email-id to that service.
You could also subscribe to it here:
Just wanted to let you know.

I preferred to visit the site on a daily basis and read the posts there and yesterday there was this post -Talk 248 from Talks with Sri Ramana maharshi:

Talk 248.
Sri Bhagavan said: The Jnani says, 'I am the body'; The ajnani says, 'I am the body'; what is the difference? 'I am' is the truth. The body is the limitation. The ajnani limits the 'I' to the body. 'I' remains independent of the body in sleep. The same 'I' is now in the wakeful state. Though imagined to be within the body, 'I' is without the body.The wrong notion is not 'I am the body.' 'I' says so. The body is insentient and cannot say so. The mistake lies in thinking that 'I' is what 'I' is not. 'I' is not insentient. 'I' cannot be the inert body. The body's movements are confounded with 'I' and misery is the result. Whether the body works or not, 'I' remains free and happy. The ajnani's 'I' is the body only. That is the whole error. The jnani's 'I' includes the body and everything else. Clearly some intermediate entity arises and gives rise to the confusion.
I thought that there was a problem with the above posting in that site and consulted my pdf copy of the Talks.I found that it also read the same!
A Jnani will never say "I am the Body" and the wrong notion is precisely this 'I am the Body' idea and the passage said that it is not!(The wrong notion is not 'I am the body.'
I wrote to this friend that something is definitely wrong with this talk 248 as recorded by sri munagala.He checked and came with the verse 17 from ulladhu narpadhu and that gave the actual perspective:
உடல் நானே தன்னை உணரார்க்கு உணர்ந்தார்கு
உடலளவே நான் தன்னுணரார்க்கு - உடலுள்ளே
தன்னுணர்ந்தார்க்கு எல்லை அறத் தானொளிரும் நான் இதுவே
இன்னவர்தம் பேதமென எண் 

The body is ';I'; for the unrealised and the realised too.
For the unrealised, the ';I'; is limited to the body only.
But for the realised, the ';I'; shines limitlessly(is not restricted to just the body).
This is the difference between the two.
A small interposing of words can lead to a big error!'Body is verily I' is not the same as 'I am the Body' and this is how the entire passage went astray.I referred to the Tamizh version of Talks as done by Sri viswanatha Swami,who was also present during the talks.This Tamizh version puts things in the proper perspective and with good clarity:
பகவான்:ஞானிக்கும் அஞ்ஞானிக்கும் உடல் நானேயாம்.ஆனால் அஞ்ஞானி  'நான் இருக்கிறேன்' என்னும் உண்மையை உடலளவாய்க் குறுக்கிக் கொள்கிறான். அதாவது உடலே  நானென்று. தூக்கத்தில் உடலை அபேஷியாமலேயே நான் என்பது சுதந்திரமாயிருக்கிறது. அதே  'நான்' விழிப்பு நிலைமையில் இப்போதும் இருக்கிறது. 'நான்' என்பது உடலுள்ளே இருப்பது  போலத்தோன்றினும் அது உடலற்றதேயாம்.உடல் ஜடமாதலின் அது 'உடல் நான்' என்று  சொல்லாது. ஆத்மாவுக்கு ஏதோவொன்றைப் பற்றிய நான் என்னும் எழுச்சியில்லை. இடையில்  ஏதோவொன்று கிளம்பி 'உடல் நான்' என்று சொல்கிறது. அது உடலின் இயக்கங்களைத் தனதாய்  அபிமானித்து வருந்துகிறது. அவ்வகந்தையற்றுத் தூய அஹம்ஸ்புரணமாய் விளங்குபவனே ஞானி. அவனுக்கு உடலும் உள்ளதனைத்தும் நானேயாம். அவன் உடலுக்கு எது நேரினும், அத்துடன்  சம்பந்தப்படாது என்றும் ஆனந்தமயனாகவே இருப்பான்.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 04:43:01 PM by Ravi.N »


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Re: Rough Notebook-Open Forum
« Reply #1439 on: May 24, 2015, 08:15:41 AM »
Somasi Mara Nayanar - Liberation Day 24.05.2015.
Guru Puja - Vaikasi Aslesha.

There are two Nayanmars by name Maran, Maranar - a respectful way of mentioning
the name, like Murugan is called Muruganar. One is from a village called Ilaiyankudi
and he is called Ilaiyankudi Maranar in Periya Puranam. The other one is Somasi
Mara Nayanar, whose Guru Puja is observed today.

This Siva devotee was living in 'tiru ambar', also called 'maakaalam' or 'tiru
ambar maakaalam.' This is near Tiruvarur.

Somasi Mara Nayanar was performing Soma-yagna at regular intervals and
was feeding many Siva devotees after such sacrifices everytime. He also went
to Tiruvarur often and after praying to Siva, Vanmika Nathar, he used to meet
many Siva devotees - who used to sit outside the temple in a hall called
Deva Asiriya Mantapam - and discuss Saivite teachings. Somasi particularly
used to meet Sundaramurthi Swamigal here. He also requested him and other
devotees to come and take food in his house in tiru ambar.

Once, when he made such a request to Sundaramurthi Swamigal , he also
requested  Swamigal to request Siva to attend the feast. He knew that Sundaramurthi  was a friend of Siva - Tambiran Thozhar.  Sundaramurthi Swamigal agreed.
Somasi performed Soma yajna, on the day of Sundaramurthi's visit to his
house, for which many devotees had come. The sacrifice was completed
and Sundaramurthi Swamigal also arrived. The purna ahuti was then done.
Somasi Mara Nayanar was a little disappointed, since Siva had not yet come.   
At that time, an outcaste arrived at the scene, holding four dogs, with his wife
and two sons.  All the devotees who were present did not know who the outcaste
was and some resented his arrival there. Somasi himself could not recognize
but one of the sons, he recognized as Ganesa. He invited all of them for meals
and was ready to wash their legs.  Siva then appeared with Parvati and Ganesa
and Skanda! Siva told Somasi, - You feed all my devotees and then come to my
Abode! Thus Somasi went to Siva padam.

Arunachala Siva.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 08:30:49 AM by Subramanian.R »